I'm also reading Audacity of Hope. I know where he stands and I know that I disagree with him on several issues. The problem is that after dealing with 16 years of Clinton and Bush, character is taking a front seat for me next election over issues. I've had it with these politicians. Obama brings truthiness to the office, a commoner's perspective.
truth? obama is all about persona. if he was about the truth, he'd be talking about the issues. he is the ultimate politician. Funny you label Bush as a politician. how can you say that? he is sticking by his principals no matter what public opinion says. either he's a hegemonic ruler or a politician...can't have it both ways.
And you ask me what I want this year
And I try to make this kind and clear
Just a chance that maybe we'll find better days
Cuz I don't need boxes wrapped in strings
And desire and love and empty things
Just a chance that maybe we'll find better days
truth? obama is all about persona. if he was about the truth, he'd be talking about the issues. he is the ultimate politician. Funny you label Bush as a politician. how can you say that? he is sticking by his principals no matter what public opinion says. either he's a hegemonic ruler or a politician...can't have it both ways.
He is talking about the issues!!! Have you not read a post in this thread outside of mine?
You're so brainwashed, Washington has you by the balls. You are so twisted and jaded by those fuckheads that even a person full of truthiness and heartfelt character comes across as a fraud and an actor.
Man, you've GOT to remember that this guy has not been part of the machine. He does not have the experience and tenure to have learned how he needs to "act" in front of a nationwide audience. Is it that hard to believe that we may actually have a man with genuine character running for office?
I'm not familiar with your username enough to know your political leanings, but if this is just some stupid partisan putdowns on your part, it's really sad to me.
"Worse than traitors in arms are the men who pretend loyalty to the flag, feast and fatten on the misfortunes of the nation while patriotic blood is crimsoning the plains." -- Abraham Lincoln
truth? obama is all about persona. if he was about the truth, he'd be talking about the issues. he is the ultimate politician. Funny you label Bush as a politician. how can you say that? he is sticking by his principals no matter what public opinion says. either he's a hegemonic ruler or a politician...can't have it both ways.
Bush hasn't followed through on a fucking campaign promise outside of the tax cuts. He said what he needed to say to get elected and now he shits on us. He is the epitome of a career politician.
"Worse than traitors in arms are the men who pretend loyalty to the flag, feast and fatten on the misfortunes of the nation while patriotic blood is crimsoning the plains." -- Abraham Lincoln
To me, it seems like the people who cite his "lack of experience" and complain that "he hasn't told the people what he stands for" are being a little disingenuous. It's called the fucking internet! Make use of it. You can do a little research and find out how he voted in the Illinois Senate and in the US Senate. You can find all this stuff on non-partisan sites. It's not difficult at all, but it's just a little harder than choosing to say, "pfft... he hasn't taken a stand on anything yet."
Do some research, form YOUR OWN idea of what he's about, then make your own judgment. Don't wait for some loudmouth assmilk on a cable news station to tell you what to think about him.
I dont care what the hell the guy did at the State level. Were talking about National issues now. Very different than local state issues. Don't get me wrong, I like this guy. He's honest, relatable, etc, etc. I just need more info.
in the time it took you to post that, you could have found out yourself. how lazy. i'll give you a tip, though i'm not even sure that's worthwhile. try googling "iraq war de-escalation act".
geez.
I actually have read quite a bit about him. So save the speeches. I was simply curious if those who support him really know his position........Apparently not. If you did, youd be able to tell me yourself instead of referring me to google.
Bush hasn't followed through on a fucking campaign promise outside of the tax cuts. He said what he needed to say to get elected and now he shits on us. He is the epitome of a career politician.
social security? voted down by dems and weak republicans. health care? signed by dems. education? signed by dems. iraq? he is doing what he thinks is right. that is the opposite of a career politician. what hillary is doing...yeah, THAT'S an example of a career politician. anyone who voted yes, and is now going back on it...that is playing politics. putting politics over reality. so again, how is W the epitome of a career politician?
And you ask me what I want this year
And I try to make this kind and clear
Just a chance that maybe we'll find better days
Cuz I don't need boxes wrapped in strings
And desire and love and empty things
Just a chance that maybe we'll find better days
I'm a registered republican and he's got my vote (unless Ron Paul is on the ballot). You've just stated exactly why he will receive my vote, he's not part of the machine yet. He's a commoner who has made his way to Washington on the shoulders of other commoners. I don't want another career politician in office, I don't want a president who has been in the pockets of lobbyists for 20 years, I don't want a president who owes "favors" to his friends and rivals.
Commoner?
"...obtained early education in Jakarta, Indonesia, and Hawaii; continued education at Occidental College, Los Angeles, Calif., and Columbia University, New York City; studied law at Harvard University, where he became the first African American president of the Harvard Law Review, and received J.D. in 1992; lecturer on constitutional law, University of Chicago..."
"...obtained early education in Jakarta, Indonesia, and Hawaii; continued education at Occidental College, Los Angeles, Calif., and Columbia University, New York City; studied law at Harvard University, where he became the first African American president of the Harvard Law Review, and received J.D. in 1992; lecturer on constitutional law, University of Chicago..."
Wow, actual information instead of moral indignation that we didn't buy his fucking book. Thank you. That was helpful...See how easy it is.
I still think the guy is inarticulate *compliment *
And you ask me what I want this year
And I try to make this kind and clear
Just a chance that maybe we'll find better days
Cuz I don't need boxes wrapped in strings
And desire and love and empty things
Just a chance that maybe we'll find better days
"...obtained early education in Jakarta, Indonesia, and Hawaii; continued education at Occidental College, Los Angeles, Calif., and Columbia University, New York City; studied law at Harvard University, where he became the first African American president of the Harvard Law Review, and received J.D. in 1992; lecturer on constitutional law, University of Chicago..."
So was he a legacy admission in those schools or, gulp, was he just that smart of a student to gain entry?
"Worse than traitors in arms are the men who pretend loyalty to the flag, feast and fatten on the misfortunes of the nation while patriotic blood is crimsoning the plains." -- Abraham Lincoln
social security? voted down by dems and weak republicans. health care? signed by dems. education? signed by dems. iraq? he is doing what he thinks is right. that is the opposite of a career politician. what hillary is doing...yeah, THAT'S an example of a career politician. anyone who voted yes, and is now going back on it...that is playing politics. putting politics over reality. so again, how is W the epitome of a career politician?
If you can look at his administration and believe that he's used common sense and strong leadership to put this nation in a better position than it was in when he took office, well, we just need to go ahead and quit speaking about this...we'll never agree.
Let me remind you, I'm a registered republican, even voted for GW, and he, and he alone, has made me abandon that party until they can figure out that we aren't all radical Evangelicals. Hopefully that sentence gives you proof of why we don't need to start arguing about GW, lol, we aren't going to convince one another of a thing.
"Worse than traitors in arms are the men who pretend loyalty to the flag, feast and fatten on the misfortunes of the nation while patriotic blood is crimsoning the plains." -- Abraham Lincoln
I have no fucking idea. And to be honest, it doesn't matter to me. I don't really understand what point you are trying to make about him.
I was just responding to the person who used his education to prove he's not a commoner. He attained admissions to those institutions on merit, not on donations that daddy made.
"Worse than traitors in arms are the men who pretend loyalty to the flag, feast and fatten on the misfortunes of the nation while patriotic blood is crimsoning the plains." -- Abraham Lincoln
I was just responding to the person who used his education to prove he's not a commoner. He attained admissions to those institutions on merit, not on donations that daddy made.
I actually just got done watching a bit on Obama on CNN. He is intriguing that is for sure. However I must tell you, having spent a number of years working for a number of really qualified candidates that came up through the Democratic party, that timing is everything. It's not enough to be the right candidate. You have to be the right candidate at the right time....And here is where Democrats have historically ALWAYS gone wrong.
They run the wrong people at the wrong time... They fail to nominate candidates who can actually beat the opposition. And winning IS the objective. There is a reason that the Dems keep losing to misfits like George W. They ignore the middle, then pander to the left coast and the right coast, and end up nominating people who are loved and endeared by only the liberal elite. And those people lose. Why? Because the left coast and the right coast cant relate to everyone in the middle, and vice versa.
Do a little survey. Since 1964 only two elected Presidents have come from outside States in the South (including Texas). The two who were not from the South were extreme right wing governors from my home state. Johnson, Nixon, Carter, Reagan, Bush Sr., Clinton, Bush Jr. That's the last 40 plus years. You cant expect to win if you don't understand or try to relate to the people who actually vote and elect people in this country.
What am I saying? I like Obama. He seems great. But this is war-time America. When Bush leaves it will still be war-time America. Historically America does not change course or take extreme risk while at war. So someone who will not completely polarize the issues is what is needed if the DEMS have any chance at winning.
There is a time for Obama, and maybe even a time for Hillary. But the DEMS are blowing it again by running these two now. They will lose...again... because its not the right time. The middle doesn't like change. They especially dont like change during a war.
So if you want change, Id rethink this Obama thing for the time being. Give him 4 more years in the Senate, let Hillary dive on the grenade (because we dont REALLY care if she does) and let him run when things are hoepfully smoother in 4 years. Then the pot smoking, hip, black, guy might be a safer choice....not for you....but for the middle. If the DEMS want to win, the guy they ought to run, if they could, would be that cat from Virginia who gave the response to the State of the Union address. Now HE is electable today. Why?
1) South
2) Marine
3) Son - Marine IN Iraq...
4) We are at war.
5) Great speaker
6) Safe for the South and the Middle.
Done deal, White House goes Blue. For now, with this plan, Red for 4 more years. Guranteed....
I dont care what the hell the guy did at the State level. Were talking about National issues now. Very different than local state issues. Don't get me wrong, I like this guy. He's honest, relatable, etc, etc. I just need more info.
His state senate work, his community organizing work, and his constitutional law background are all part of the whole. In the state senate, one issue he worked on was campaign reform. It's something he's taking a stand on now, and it's an issue that I think you'd agree is relevant on both the local and national level. Members of the state senate, both Democrat and Republican, feel that he was a thoughtful and unfying figure in a state that is notorious for political infighting. I know one VERY Republican staffer in the state senate who admired Obama very much.
Of course you can disregard his state senate record if you feel it's not important in the framework of a presidential race, but I'd bet that if you looked at his entire political career, you'd find information that could help you form a more complete picture of him as a future president.
"Of course it hurts. You're getting fucked by an elephant."
His state senate work, his community organizing work, and his constitutional law background are all part of the whole. In the state senate, one issue he worked on was campaign reform. It's something he's taking a stand on now, and it's an issue that I think you'd agree is relevant on both the local and national level. Members of the state senate, both Democrat and Republican, feel that he was a thoughtful and unfying figure in a state that is notorious for political infighting. I know one VERY Republican staffer in the state senate who admired Obama very much.
Of course you can disregard his state senate record if you feel it's not important in the framework of a presidential race, but I'd bet that if you looked at his entire political career, you'd find information that could help you form a more complete picture of him as a future president.
If his experience in a STATE senate is all you got, what you got is problems. Whole different world.
If his experience in a STATE senate is all you got, what you got is problems. Whole different world.
And what exactly has Guiliani got, mayor?
"Worse than traitors in arms are the men who pretend loyalty to the flag, feast and fatten on the misfortunes of the nation while patriotic blood is crimsoning the plains." -- Abraham Lincoln
If the DEMS want to win, the guy they ought to run, if they could, would be that cat from Virginia who gave the response to the State of the Union address. Now HE is electable today. Why?
1) South
2) Marine
3) Son - Marine IN Iraq...
4) We are at war.
5) Great speaker
6) Safe for the South and the Middle.
Done deal, White House goes Blue. For now, with this plan, Red for 4 more years. Guaranteed....
I have to say I think you're making sense there. Jim Webb (I believe) made an impact with his rebuttal to the SOU. And if he decides to run for POTUS I'll give him a gander. But I'm still gonna read Obama's book and see if he is the real deal.
I actually have read quite a bit about him. So save the speeches. I was simply curious if those who support him really know his position........Apparently not. If you did, youd be able to tell me yourself instead of referring me to google.
are you seriously saying i don't know his position on iraq? i told you to google 'iraq war de-escalation act' because that is his plan. and it's not a speech. it's legislation that he introduced a few weeks ago, if that. and i'm not going to waste my time typing out details for a douche that could have easily read all the details in seconds.
unbelievable
if you wanna be a friend of mine
cross the river to the eastside
I'm also reading Audacity of Hope. I know where he stands and I know that I disagree with him on several issues. The problem is that after dealing with 16 years of Clinton and Bush, character is taking a front seat for me next election over issues. I've had it with these politicians. Obama brings truthiness to the office, a commoner's perspective.
this is probably going to be cheeseball, but i just think it's refreshing, and actually not scary, that you and i could be voting for the same person. there are some things i don't completely agree with him either, but this makes it seem that maybe the nation isn't as divided as they tell us we are. and that people are ready for something different-- different and possible now. and this is something we could actually work towards, and that change might come.
if you wanna be a friend of mine
cross the river to the eastside
is to be decided upon heresay that we get from the television news programs, and not from what we ourselves learn from our own gleanings, then all I can say is God save America.
And yet if you read the Straw Polls so far, it's Hillary and Obama leading the Dem side, and McCain and Giuliani leading the GOP side.
Hillary has 4 more years in the Senate than Obama. Not much. But I never said I was a fan of Ms. Clinton's. Of the four you mention, all of the above would be more qualified and capable than our current president. We would be taking a step in the right direction with any one of those four.
are you seriously saying i don't know his position on iraq? i told you to google 'iraq war de-escalation act' because that is his plan. and it's not a speech. it's legislation that he introduced a few weeks ago, if that. and i'm not going to waste my time typing out details for a douche that could have easily read all the details in seconds.
unbelievable
a douche ey? brilliant...i dont know why I bother trying to find an intelligent soul to debate politics with on this board. No one here can seem to formulate their own thoughts without having to post a link or cut and paste or send you to google. and im not persuaed by a guy in the Senate two years all of a sudden is a genius for introducing his own plan to do what everyone else has been proposing for years. nothing original there...it's self serving and disingenous. sort of like you
and that qualifies him to be president how exactly?
"Worse than traitors in arms are the men who pretend loyalty to the flag, feast and fatten on the misfortunes of the nation while patriotic blood is crimsoning the plains." -- Abraham Lincoln
a douche ey? brilliant...i dont know why I bother trying to find an intelligent soul to debate politics with on this board. No one here can seem to formulate their own thoughts without having to post a link or cut and paste or send you to google. and im not persuaed by a guy in the Senate two years all of a sudden is a genius for introducing his own plan to do what everyone else has been proposing for years. nothing original there...it's self serving and disingenous. sort of like you
People learn things by reading information not by making shit up in their own head. You're asking about facts so sharing the information with you seems like a pretty good idea to me. Besides, I've seen you on numerous occasions ask for proof of stuff if people don't cut and paste. I think you're just going to whine either way to make it seem like you have some sort of point.
If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde
Comments
truth? obama is all about persona. if he was about the truth, he'd be talking about the issues. he is the ultimate politician. Funny you label Bush as a politician. how can you say that? he is sticking by his principals no matter what public opinion says. either he's a hegemonic ruler or a politician...can't have it both ways.
And I try to make this kind and clear
Just a chance that maybe we'll find better days
Cuz I don't need boxes wrapped in strings
And desire and love and empty things
Just a chance that maybe we'll find better days
He is talking about the issues!!! Have you not read a post in this thread outside of mine?
You're so brainwashed, Washington has you by the balls. You are so twisted and jaded by those fuckheads that even a person full of truthiness and heartfelt character comes across as a fraud and an actor.
Man, you've GOT to remember that this guy has not been part of the machine. He does not have the experience and tenure to have learned how he needs to "act" in front of a nationwide audience. Is it that hard to believe that we may actually have a man with genuine character running for office?
I'm not familiar with your username enough to know your political leanings, but if this is just some stupid partisan putdowns on your part, it's really sad to me.
Bush hasn't followed through on a fucking campaign promise outside of the tax cuts. He said what he needed to say to get elected and now he shits on us. He is the epitome of a career politician.
I actually have read quite a bit about him. So save the speeches. I was simply curious if those who support him really know his position........Apparently not. If you did, youd be able to tell me yourself instead of referring me to google.
social security? voted down by dems and weak republicans. health care? signed by dems. education? signed by dems. iraq? he is doing what he thinks is right. that is the opposite of a career politician. what hillary is doing...yeah, THAT'S an example of a career politician. anyone who voted yes, and is now going back on it...that is playing politics. putting politics over reality. so again, how is W the epitome of a career politician?
And I try to make this kind and clear
Just a chance that maybe we'll find better days
Cuz I don't need boxes wrapped in strings
And desire and love and empty things
Just a chance that maybe we'll find better days
Commoner?
"...obtained early education in Jakarta, Indonesia, and Hawaii; continued education at Occidental College, Los Angeles, Calif., and Columbia University, New York City; studied law at Harvard University, where he became the first African American president of the Harvard Law Review, and received J.D. in 1992; lecturer on constitutional law, University of Chicago..."
all posts by ©gue_barium are protected under US copyright law and are not to be reproduced, exchanged or sold
except by express written permission of ©gue_barium, the author.
And your point is?
I still think the guy is inarticulate *compliment
And I try to make this kind and clear
Just a chance that maybe we'll find better days
Cuz I don't need boxes wrapped in strings
And desire and love and empty things
Just a chance that maybe we'll find better days
So was he a legacy admission in those schools or, gulp, was he just that smart of a student to gain entry?
I have no fucking idea. And to be honest, it doesn't matter to me. I don't really understand what point you are trying to make about him.
If you can look at his administration and believe that he's used common sense and strong leadership to put this nation in a better position than it was in when he took office, well, we just need to go ahead and quit speaking about this...we'll never agree.
Let me remind you, I'm a registered republican, even voted for GW, and he, and he alone, has made me abandon that party until they can figure out that we aren't all radical Evangelicals. Hopefully that sentence gives you proof of why we don't need to start arguing about GW, lol, we aren't going to convince one another of a thing.
I was just responding to the person who used his education to prove he's not a commoner. He attained admissions to those institutions on merit, not on donations that daddy made.
I thought I'd missed something, lol.....
They run the wrong people at the wrong time... They fail to nominate candidates who can actually beat the opposition. And winning IS the objective. There is a reason that the Dems keep losing to misfits like George W. They ignore the middle, then pander to the left coast and the right coast, and end up nominating people who are loved and endeared by only the liberal elite. And those people lose. Why? Because the left coast and the right coast cant relate to everyone in the middle, and vice versa.
Do a little survey. Since 1964 only two elected Presidents have come from outside States in the South (including Texas). The two who were not from the South were extreme right wing governors from my home state. Johnson, Nixon, Carter, Reagan, Bush Sr., Clinton, Bush Jr. That's the last 40 plus years. You cant expect to win if you don't understand or try to relate to the people who actually vote and elect people in this country.
What am I saying? I like Obama. He seems great. But this is war-time America. When Bush leaves it will still be war-time America. Historically America does not change course or take extreme risk while at war. So someone who will not completely polarize the issues is what is needed if the DEMS have any chance at winning.
There is a time for Obama, and maybe even a time for Hillary. But the DEMS are blowing it again by running these two now. They will lose...again... because its not the right time. The middle doesn't like change. They especially dont like change during a war.
So if you want change, Id rethink this Obama thing for the time being. Give him 4 more years in the Senate, let Hillary dive on the grenade (because we dont REALLY care if she does) and let him run when things are hoepfully smoother in 4 years. Then the pot smoking, hip, black, guy might be a safer choice....not for you....but for the middle. If the DEMS want to win, the guy they ought to run, if they could, would be that cat from Virginia who gave the response to the State of the Union address. Now HE is electable today. Why?
1) South
2) Marine
3) Son - Marine IN Iraq...
4) We are at war.
5) Great speaker
6) Safe for the South and the Middle.
Done deal, White House goes Blue. For now, with this plan, Red for 4 more years. Guranteed....
His state senate work, his community organizing work, and his constitutional law background are all part of the whole. In the state senate, one issue he worked on was campaign reform. It's something he's taking a stand on now, and it's an issue that I think you'd agree is relevant on both the local and national level. Members of the state senate, both Democrat and Republican, feel that he was a thoughtful and unfying figure in a state that is notorious for political infighting. I know one VERY Republican staffer in the state senate who admired Obama very much.
Of course you can disregard his state senate record if you feel it's not important in the framework of a presidential race, but I'd bet that if you looked at his entire political career, you'd find information that could help you form a more complete picture of him as a future president.
If his experience in a STATE senate is all you got, what you got is problems. Whole different world.
...State Senate is all Hillary's got, too.
And yet if you read the Straw Polls so far, it's Hillary and Obama leading the Dem side, and McCain and Giuliani leading the GOP side.
And what exactly has Guiliani got, mayor?
I have to say I think you're making sense there. Jim Webb (I believe) made an impact with his rebuttal to the SOU. And if he decides to run for POTUS I'll give him a gander. But I'm still gonna read Obama's book and see if he is the real deal.
are you seriously saying i don't know his position on iraq? i told you to google 'iraq war de-escalation act' because that is his plan. and it's not a speech. it's legislation that he introduced a few weeks ago, if that. and i'm not going to waste my time typing out details for a douche that could have easily read all the details in seconds.
unbelievable
cross the river to the eastside
this is probably going to be cheeseball, but i just think it's refreshing, and actually not scary, that you and i could be voting for the same person. there are some things i don't completely agree with him either, but this makes it seem that maybe the nation isn't as divided as they tell us we are. and that people are ready for something different-- different and possible now. and this is something we could actually work towards, and that change might come.
cross the river to the eastside
a douche ey? brilliant...i dont know why I bother trying to find an intelligent soul to debate politics with on this board. No one here can seem to formulate their own thoughts without having to post a link or cut and paste or send you to google. and im not persuaed by a guy in the Senate two years all of a sudden is a genius for introducing his own plan to do what everyone else has been proposing for years. nothing original there...it's self serving and disingenous. sort of like you
and that qualifies him to be president how exactly?
People learn things by reading information not by making shit up in their own head. You're asking about facts so sharing the information with you seems like a pretty good idea to me. Besides, I've seen you on numerous occasions ask for proof of stuff if people don't cut and paste. I think you're just going to whine either way to make it seem like you have some sort of point.
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde