I apologize. You;re a funny girl...lol. kidding. Seriously though, that was like a really long article and i dont really want to read the whole thing but I agree we all should. And from what I read I think it's an interesting article.
I commend your steadfastness(is that a word). I voted for Nader in 2000. I like the guy a tremendous amount and I dont subscribe to the theory that we shouldn't vote for someone just because they can't win. We should vote for who we believe in. The thing is, a lot of us really believe in Barrack.
I know you do. That's why I want to know if the information posted in the OP would have any effect on your support or opinion of him.
If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde
Personally I dont mind his record being out. I think he has a fine record regardless of homeboy's commentary on it.
How do you feel about his votes for the Patriot Act?
How do you feel about his votes to fund the war and prolong it instead of urging withdrawl?
How do you feel about his vote for the CAFA?
How do you feel about HR 676 Single Payer National Insurance and his vote against it?
How do you feel about his lobbyists in the nuclear power industry snd his continued support of it?
How do you feel about his vote for the wall on the border and he new campaign stance of being against it?
How do you feel about his vote against the credit card interest rate cap while his campaign has been so against predatory lending?
How do you feel about him sponsering the National Medical Error Disclosure and Compensation Act of 2005?
How do you feel about his opposition to The Hardrock Mining and Reclamation Act of 2007 while having a key advisor in Nevada that is a Nevada-based lobbyist in the employ of various mining companies?
How do you feel about his weak energy policy in a time of crisis?
How do you feel about his doublespeak on NAFTA brought up in this article?
How do you feel about his leanings towards supporting Israel?
If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde
Nader is not all talk. I'm sure you're aware of his body of work. Any opinion about the points made in the OP?
I can't belive how many here are exactly like the conservatives were in 04. Ignore the issues and support your side at all costs. I thought I was going to see some real discourse and concern....a real sense of urgency to push real progress and make this election about what we the people want to see happen in this country. Nope just more of the same. Excuses.
you can't believe? first of all, i dont believe you were being honest in that statement, but i forgive you. "anything for dramatic effect",.. right! secondly, i too thought perhaps this election would bring about a greater degree of discourse and debate, and therein work to elevate the masses of america into a more progressive state.
ha! looks like we're a couple of fools!
we don’t know just where our bones will rest,
to dust i guess,
forgotten and absorbed into the earth below,..
you can't believe? first of all, i dont believe you were being honest in that statement, but i forgive you. "anything for dramatic effect",.. right! secondly, i too thought perhaps this election would bring about a greater degree of discourse and debate, and therein work to elevate the masses of america into a more progressive state.
ha! looks like we're a couple of fools!
Honestly, some of the people here and the posts I'm used to seeing from them...yeah, I really can't believe it. Especially, the ones who have posted over and over again about the corruption of the two parties in power and the urge for progress in this country. All talk I suppose when it comes down to it. But you're correct, others I shouldn't be too surprised at.
Sadly, we definitely were a couple of fools. *sigh*
If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde
How do you feel about his votes for the Patriot Act?
How do you feel about his votes to fund the war and prolong it instead of urging withdrawl?
How do you feel about his vote for the CAFA?
How do you feel about HR 676 Single Payer National Insurance and his vote against it?
How do you feel about his lobbyists in the nuclear power industry snd his continued support of it?
How do you feel about his vote for the wall on the border and he new campaign stance of being against it?
How do you feel about his vote against the credit card interest rate cap while his campaign has been so against predatory lending?
How do you feel about him sponsering the National Medical Error Disclosure and Compensation Act of 2005?
How do you feel about his opposition to The Hardrock Mining and Reclamation Act of 2007 while having a key advisor in Nevada that is a Nevada-based lobbyist in the employ of various mining companies?
How do you feel about his weak energy policy in a time of crisis?
How do you feel about his doublespeak on NAFTA brought up in this article?
How do you feel about his leanings towards supporting Israel?
Where'd everybody go?
If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde
Honestly, some of the people here and the posts I'm used to seeing from them...yeah, I really can't believe it. Especially, the ones who have posted over and over again about the corruption of the two parties in power and the urge for progress in this country. All talk I suppose when it comes down to it. But you're correct, others I shouldn't be too surprised at.
Sadly, we definitely were a couple of fools. *sigh*
yea. not sure where youre dancing in the moonlight, but if anywhere near wyoming, id be psyched to share a drink.
we don’t know just where our bones will rest,
to dust i guess,
forgotten and absorbed into the earth below,..
How do you feel about his votes for the Patriot Act?
How do you feel about his votes to fund the war and prolong it instead of urging withdrawl?
How do you feel about his vote for the CAFA?
How do you feel about HR 676 Single Payer National Insurance and his vote against it?
How do you feel about his lobbyists in the nuclear power industry snd his continued support of it?
How do you feel about his vote for the wall on the border and he new campaign stance of being against it?
How do you feel about his vote against the credit card interest rate cap while his campaign has been so against predatory lending?
How do you feel about him sponsering the National Medical Error Disclosure and Compensation Act of 2005?
How do you feel about his opposition to The Hardrock Mining and Reclamation Act of 2007 while having a key advisor in Nevada that is a Nevada-based lobbyist in the employ of various mining companies?
How do you feel about his weak energy policy in a time of crisis?
How do you feel about his doublespeak on NAFTA brought up in this article?
How do you feel about his leanings towards supporting Israel?
...somewhere quiet to be alone, and silently weep into their dinner plate as the hard realities sink in...
If Obama were a drug he'd be cocaine....hell of a buzz, but the comedown is a kicker...
on that note.......woohoo....Obamam 08
Oh well...there's always next election...
Progress is not made by everyone joining some new fad,
and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
over specific principles, goals, and policies.
yea. not sure where youre dancing in the moonlight, but if anywhere near wyoming, id be psyched to share a drink.
Unfortunately, I'm far away from Wyoming. I'm in South Carolina. But thanks for the offer just the same. I may be near there one of these days, who knows?
If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde
Unfortunately, I'm far away from Wyoming. I'm in South Carolina. But thanks for the offer just the same. I may be near there one of these days, who knows?
ahh, that figures. i guess thats what i get for moving to the mountains where i wont bother anyone. South Carolina is nice though; maybe my eleventh favorite state, if i was trying to count. im glad you've got your views and aren't worried about sticking to them. most likely im going to skip sending in my absentee for Paul in the PA primary and just vote for Nader in the general, even though i took the time to register as a R. hey, the third-time is the charm, right?
we don’t know just where our bones will rest,
to dust i guess,
forgotten and absorbed into the earth below,..
ahh, that figures. i guess thats what i get for moving to the mountains where i wont bother anyone. South Carolina is nice though; maybe my eleventh favorite state, if i was trying to count. im glad you've got your views and aren't worried about sticking to them. most likely im going to skip sending in my absentee for Paul in the PA primary and just vote for Nader in the general, even though i took the time to register as a R. hey, the third-time is the charm, right?
The mountains are so nice, though. I don't blame you. South Carolina does have some nice parts but mostly it isn't ideal. I'm planning to move one of these days but my family is here so it's a tough decision.
I was hoping for Kucinich but he had to drop out to campaign for his congressional seat. He's such a strong voice and needs to keep his influence where he can. Nader has a great platform and very detailed solutions. It wasn't a hard decision to support him over the other guys running. Here's to a charming 3rd run...though, I thought he ran in 96 but not positive. I was just a kid then.
If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde
The mountains are so nice, though. I don't blame you. South Carolina does have some nice parts but mostly it isn't ideal. I'm planning to move one of these days but my family is here so it's a tough decision.
I was hoping for Kucinich but he had to drop out to campaign for his congressional seat. He's such a strong voice and needs to keep his influence where he can. Nader has a great platform and very detailed solutions. It wasn't a hard decision to support him over the other guys running. Here's to a charming 3rd run...though, I thought he ran in 96 but not positive. I was just a kid then.
yeah, i think youve got 3/4 years on me, so i wasnt old enough to vote in '96 either. to be honest i wont be surprised in the least if McCain wins, and perhaps that wont be so bad really. seems to me he has become a completely different politician since BushII entered the scene, so maybe with Joonier's exit we'll see some independent thinking from johny-boy again.
ok, now im stretching the truth again. that typically means ive said all i can.
we don’t know just where our bones will rest,
to dust i guess,
forgotten and absorbed into the earth below,..
yeah, i think youve got 3/4 years on me, so i wasnt old enough to vote in '96 either. to be honest i wont be surprised in the least if McCain wins, and perhaps that wont be so bad really. seems to me he has become a completely different politician since BushII entered the scene, so maybe with Joonier's exit we'll see some independent thinking from johny-boy again.
ok, now im stretching the truth again. that typically means ive said all i can.
Really? I would have guessed you to be at least a couple of years older.
If McCain wins it will only be due to the shortcomings of the Democratic party and their refusal to bring real progress to the table time and time again.
If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde
Really? I would have guessed you to be at least a couple of years older.
If McCain wins it will only be due to the shortcomings of the Democratic party and their refusal to bring real progress to the table time and time again.
I won't be surprised if the dems lose again. Sooner or later they're gonna realize we need a candidate that doesn't just say, "yeah I"m for change". instead we need a candidate that is for cahnge -anti war, pro health care, pro working class., etc
I won't be surprised if the dems lose again. Sooner or later they're gonna realize we need a candidate that doesn't just say, "yeah I"m for change". instead we need a candidate that is for cahnge -anti war, pro health care, pro working class., etc
One of these days, Commy...or else their party will be doomed, imo. And it really wouldn't bother me. They can be replaced.
If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde
Where has Nader said he's a 'politicial messiah'? The perception of him being legendary public servant has taken more hits because of him running, actually. But he has been quoted as saying that how he is viewed doesn't matter because the issues he's going up against are more important and need to be addressed in the mainstream.
Now, any opinion about the OP?
I never said Nader called himself a political messiah. It's his followers I was referring to. I already said I didnt think Obama was perfect. I'm sick of Nader being viewed as any better than the pther two parties. He would not make a good president in my opinion. Perhaps a viable third party candidate would be great but not Nader. You act like I'm an Obama zealot and I'm not...Jesus.
I never said Nader called himself a political messiah. It's his followers I was referring to. I already said I didnt think Obama was perfect. I'm sick of Nader being viewed as any better than the pther two parties. He would not make a good president in my opinion. Perhaps a viable third party candidate would be great but not Nader. You act like I'm an Obama zealot and I'm not...Jesus.
How does Obama's platform look compared to Nader's to you? What is it you prefer about Obama's?
How does Nader's platform make him appear as 'not much better than the other two parties'?
What is your problem with Nader that causes you to think he's not a great third party candidate?
I can't speak for other Nader supporters but I don't think he's the politicial messiah. Frankly, I'm not even sure what that's supposed to mean? That he'll come in and save us all and be the answer to all our problems? No, but I think with ideas like his, he'd be an absolutely great start.
If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde
How does Obama's platform look compared to Nader's to you? What is it you prefer about Obama's?
How does Nader's platform make him appear as 'not much better than the other two parties'?
What is your problem with Nader that causes you to think he's not a great third party candidate?
I can't speak for other Nader supporters but I don't think he's the politicial messiah. Frankly, I'm not even sure what that's supposed to mean? That he'll come in and save us all and be the answer to all our problems? No, but I think with ideas like his, he'd be an absolutely great start.
Who said I support Obama? Dont assume that because I dont like Nader.
Nader's platform is unattainable. Neither the Democrats nor the Republicans in Congress would work with him. Until there is a viable third party in Congress for coalitions then a third party president is a lame duck.
Why do I think Nader is not a great third party candidate? Because he has tried it several times without even coming close to being a factor. Trying it 2 or 3 more elections is just idiotic. If it is a message he wants to get out then there are other ways to do it. Try running someone fresh from the Green Party in my opinion. Being a nice guy with good ideas doesnt make you presidential material automatically. To me he is an old angry man like McCain.
How do you feel about his votes for the Patriot Act?
How do you feel about his votes to fund the war and prolong it instead of urging withdrawl?
How do you feel about his vote for the CAFA?
How do you feel about HR 676 Single Payer National Insurance and his vote against it?
How do you feel about his lobbyists in the nuclear power industry snd his continued support of it?
How do you feel about his vote for the wall on the border and he new campaign stance of being against it?
How do you feel about his vote against the credit card interest rate cap while his campaign has been so against predatory lending?
How do you feel about him sponsering the National Medical Error Disclosure and Compensation Act of 2005?
How do you feel about his opposition to The Hardrock Mining and Reclamation Act of 2007 while having a key advisor in Nevada that is a Nevada-based lobbyist in the employ of various mining companies?
How do you feel about his weak energy policy in a time of crisis?
How do you feel about his doublespeak on NAFTA brought up in this article?
How do you feel about his leanings towards supporting Israel?
and how do you feel that one of his top advisors is this guy: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Rubin#Post-political_career
He sparked controversy in 2001 when he contacted an acquaintance at the Treasury Department and asked if the department could convince bond-rating agencies not to downgrade the corporate debt of Enron, a debtor of Citigroup. Rubin wanted Enron creditors to loan money to the troubled company for a restructuring of its debt; a collapse of the energy giant might have serious consequences for financial markets and energy distribution.
also: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Citigroup#Business_Issues
Citigroup was accused of helping Enron and other companies hide their losses by loaning money to those companies in a special way that would reduce liabilities visible on the balance sheet.
that link has other scandals involving citigroup while rubin was an exec, some violating SEC regulations
and he's also co-chairman of the cfr
and not only did he vote against capping credit card interest rates at 30%
Obama, in one of his earliest Senate votes, departed with his own party and voted for class action “reform” legislation. The bill, as Ken Silverstein wrote for Harper’s, was “lobbied for aggressively by financial firms, which constitute Obama’s second biggest single bloc of donors.” An amendment to the legislation, which the senator opposed, would have capped credit card interest rates at 30%. Obama, unfortunately, didn’t see a need for any cap on such predatory lending.
and he voted for condeleeza rice to be sec of state, odd coming from someone who is so against this war
standin above the crowd
he had a voice that was strong and loud and
i swallowed his facade cos i'm so
eager to identify with
someone above the crowd
someone who seemed to feel the same
someone prepared to lead the way
'His program consists mostly of familiar ideas that might soften the pain for displaced workers. But I doubt the Hamilton proposals will do much, if anything, to reduce the global forces that are depressing incomes for half or more of the American workforce. Even Rubin is uncertain. When I ask if his agenda will have any effect at all on the global convergence of wages -- the top falling gradually toward the rising bottom -- he says: "Well, I think that's a question to which nobody knows the answer. I think the proposals and approach we are proposing are the way to get the best possible outcome for the United States in a complicated world. ... But whether that's going to stop the global convergence of wages, I don't know the answer to that. I would guess the answer is no." '
standin above the crowd
he had a voice that was strong and loud and
i swallowed his facade cos i'm so
eager to identify with
someone above the crowd
someone who seemed to feel the same
someone prepared to lead the way
Who said I support Obama? Dont assume that because I dont like Nader.
Nader's platform is unattainable. Neither the Democrats nor the Republicans in Congress would work with him. Until there is a viable third party in Congress for coalitions then a third party president is a lame duck.
Why do I think Nader is not a great third party candidate? Because he has tried it several times without even coming close to being a factor. Trying it 2 or 3 more elections is just idiotic. If it is a message he wants to get out then there are other ways to do it. Try running someone fresh from the Green Party in my opinion. Being a nice guy with good ideas doesnt make you presidential material automatically. To me he is an old angry man like McCain.
First off, I'm going to have to disagree with your 'unattainable' defeatist attitude. Congress doesn't get to tell us how the country is ran....we the people are supposed to tell them and guide them by our voice and votes. If Nader got elected it should send a clear message to the rest of Washington that the citizenry has spoken and want real progress and are no longer complacent with the mediocrity of the Democratic party and their pandering to special interests selling our country off piece by piece. It seems to me they might choose to listen or else lose their seats, as well. But that would only happen in a country where the people acted like they had the power and actually utilized this thing we're supposed to have called Democracy instead of waiting on cues from the media as to who is 'electable'. The media isn't going to limit my decisions or choices.
Secondly, I really don't care to debate with you about how old or angry you view Ralph Nader. I'm hoping for discussions here based on the issues with a little more substance. I hope that most of you aren't making your decisions based on this either...I kinda like to expect more from the usually well informed people who post in this forum for the most part. I'll post a link top the questions I'd like to discuss about Obama's record since that's why the thread was started in the first place.
Nader is not all talk. I'm sure you're aware of his body of work. Any opinion about the points made in the OP?
I can't belive how many here are exactly like the conservatives were in 04. Ignore the issues and support your side at all costs. I thought I was going to see some real discourse and concern....a real sense of urgency to push real progress and make this election about what we the people want to see happen in this country. Nope just more of the same. Excuses.
sure, I have some thoughts about the points raised in the article...
they're subjective, at best...for me, it seems as if he's playing the middle...I mean, what were the details of the bill he opposed, what sort of things were added to the said bills he opposed...? what are the true ramifications of those said votes....?
for me, I want someone who can work with everyone...sure, he's made some choices I don't agree with...and if he gets the nod, I'll be sure to speak out against the things I don't agree with...just because I'm leaning toward Obama, it doesn't mean I'll be walking lock-step with him....
I think I'm looking at this election differently that you...I'm looking for someone who is going to make attempts to work in the middle...I guess I'm looking at what I don't want....I don't want someone who is as divisive as bushy...and billary is that person(s)...s/he is as bad as bush, in my view...
would I love to be able to vote for your boy, Dennis....I sure would....but the voters in earlier primaries did not give me that chance...
again, I have to ask, give me a politician who doesn't "pander"....
"I hope Iowans will caucus for me as their first choice ... because of my singular positions on the war, on health care and trade," Kucinich said. "But in those caucus locations where my support doesn't reach the necessary threshold, I strongly encourage all of my supporters to make Barack Obama their second choice."
"I hope Iowans will caucus for me as their first choice ... because of my singular positions on the war, on health care and trade," Kucinich said. "But in those caucus locations where my support doesn't reach the necessary threshold, I strongly encourage all of my supporters to make Barack Obama their second choice."
Dennis Kucinch
Kucinich obviously didnt do his research on Obama. I cannot believe he would make a recommendation like that without knowing all of the facts. Kucinich is just as bad as the rest of us Moving Train sheep. Sigh.
Comments
Personally I dont mind his record being out. I think he has a fine record regardless of homeboy's commentary on it.
I know you do. That's why I want to know if the information posted in the OP would have any effect on your support or opinion of him.
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde
ooopsie daisy...you are absolutely correct, I did miss that.
How do you feel about his votes for the Patriot Act?
How do you feel about his votes to fund the war and prolong it instead of urging withdrawl?
How do you feel about his vote for the CAFA?
How do you feel about HR 676 Single Payer National Insurance and his vote against it?
How do you feel about his lobbyists in the nuclear power industry snd his continued support of it?
How do you feel about his vote for the wall on the border and he new campaign stance of being against it?
How do you feel about his vote against the credit card interest rate cap while his campaign has been so against predatory lending?
How do you feel about him sponsering the National Medical Error Disclosure and Compensation Act of 2005?
How do you feel about his opposition to The Hardrock Mining and Reclamation Act of 2007 while having a key advisor in Nevada that is a Nevada-based lobbyist in the employ of various mining companies?
How do you feel about his weak energy policy in a time of crisis?
How do you feel about his doublespeak on NAFTA brought up in this article?
How do you feel about his leanings towards supporting Israel?
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde
you can't believe? first of all, i dont believe you were being honest in that statement, but i forgive you. "anything for dramatic effect",.. right! secondly, i too thought perhaps this election would bring about a greater degree of discourse and debate, and therein work to elevate the masses of america into a more progressive state.
ha! looks like we're a couple of fools!
to dust i guess,
forgotten and absorbed into the earth below,..
Honestly, some of the people here and the posts I'm used to seeing from them...yeah, I really can't believe it. Especially, the ones who have posted over and over again about the corruption of the two parties in power and the urge for progress in this country. All talk I suppose when it comes down to it. But you're correct, others I shouldn't be too surprised at.
Sadly, we definitely were a couple of fools. *sigh*
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde
Where'd everybody go?
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde
yea. not sure where youre dancing in the moonlight, but if anywhere near wyoming, id be psyched to share a drink.
to dust i guess,
forgotten and absorbed into the earth below,..
Have you seen his abs?
If Obama were a drug he'd be cocaine....hell of a buzz, but the comedown is a kicker...
on that note.......woohoo....Obamam 08
Oh well...there's always next election...
and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
over specific principles, goals, and policies.
http://i36.tinypic.com/66j31x.jpg
(\__/)
( o.O)
(")_(")
Unfortunately, I'm far away from Wyoming. I'm in South Carolina. But thanks for the offer just the same. I may be near there one of these days, who knows?
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde
No
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde
I'm kidding. Hey this article raises good questions. Thank you.
You're welcome. Now use this information wisely and let Obama know you're paying attention and that these things matter to you.
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde
ahh, that figures. i guess thats what i get for moving to the mountains where i wont bother anyone. South Carolina is nice though; maybe my eleventh favorite state, if i was trying to count. im glad you've got your views and aren't worried about sticking to them. most likely im going to skip sending in my absentee for Paul in the PA primary and just vote for Nader in the general, even though i took the time to register as a R. hey, the third-time is the charm, right?
to dust i guess,
forgotten and absorbed into the earth below,..
The mountains are so nice, though. I don't blame you. South Carolina does have some nice parts but mostly it isn't ideal. I'm planning to move one of these days but my family is here so it's a tough decision.
I was hoping for Kucinich but he had to drop out to campaign for his congressional seat. He's such a strong voice and needs to keep his influence where he can. Nader has a great platform and very detailed solutions. It wasn't a hard decision to support him over the other guys running. Here's to a charming 3rd run...though, I thought he ran in 96 but not positive. I was just a kid then.
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde
yeah, i think youve got 3/4 years on me, so i wasnt old enough to vote in '96 either. to be honest i wont be surprised in the least if McCain wins, and perhaps that wont be so bad really. seems to me he has become a completely different politician since BushII entered the scene, so maybe with Joonier's exit we'll see some independent thinking from johny-boy again.
ok, now im stretching the truth again. that typically means ive said all i can.
to dust i guess,
forgotten and absorbed into the earth below,..
Really? I would have guessed you to be at least a couple of years older.
If McCain wins it will only be due to the shortcomings of the Democratic party and their refusal to bring real progress to the table time and time again.
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde
One of these days, Commy...or else their party will be doomed, imo. And it really wouldn't bother me. They can be replaced.
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde
I never said Nader called himself a political messiah. It's his followers I was referring to. I already said I didnt think Obama was perfect. I'm sick of Nader being viewed as any better than the pther two parties. He would not make a good president in my opinion. Perhaps a viable third party candidate would be great but not Nader. You act like I'm an Obama zealot and I'm not...Jesus.
How does Obama's platform look compared to Nader's to you? What is it you prefer about Obama's?
How does Nader's platform make him appear as 'not much better than the other two parties'?
What is your problem with Nader that causes you to think he's not a great third party candidate?
I can't speak for other Nader supporters but I don't think he's the politicial messiah. Frankly, I'm not even sure what that's supposed to mean? That he'll come in and save us all and be the answer to all our problems? No, but I think with ideas like his, he'd be an absolutely great start.
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde
Who said I support Obama? Dont assume that because I dont like Nader.
Nader's platform is unattainable. Neither the Democrats nor the Republicans in Congress would work with him. Until there is a viable third party in Congress for coalitions then a third party president is a lame duck.
Why do I think Nader is not a great third party candidate? Because he has tried it several times without even coming close to being a factor. Trying it 2 or 3 more elections is just idiotic. If it is a message he wants to get out then there are other ways to do it. Try running someone fresh from the Green Party in my opinion. Being a nice guy with good ideas doesnt make you presidential material automatically. To me he is an old angry man like McCain.
Yes. He is the same person.
and how do you feel that one of his top advisors is this guy:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Rubin#Post-political_career
He sparked controversy in 2001 when he contacted an acquaintance at the Treasury Department and asked if the department could convince bond-rating agencies not to downgrade the corporate debt of Enron, a debtor of Citigroup. Rubin wanted Enron creditors to loan money to the troubled company for a restructuring of its debt; a collapse of the energy giant might have serious consequences for financial markets and energy distribution.
also:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Citigroup#Business_Issues
Citigroup was accused of helping Enron and other companies hide their losses by loaning money to those companies in a special way that would reduce liabilities visible on the balance sheet.
that link has other scandals involving citigroup while rubin was an exec, some violating SEC regulations
and he's also co-chairman of the cfr
and not only did he vote against capping credit card interest rates at 30%
Obama, in one of his earliest Senate votes, departed with his own party and voted for class action “reform” legislation. The bill, as Ken Silverstein wrote for Harper’s, was “lobbied for aggressively by financial firms, which constitute Obama’s second biggest single bloc of donors.” An amendment to the legislation, which the senator opposed, would have capped credit card interest rates at 30%. Obama, unfortunately, didn’t see a need for any cap on such predatory lending.
and he voted for condeleeza rice to be sec of state, odd coming from someone who is so against this war
he had a voice that was strong and loud and
i swallowed his facade cos i'm so
eager to identify with
someone above the crowd
someone who seemed to feel the same
someone prepared to lead the way
http://www.thenation.com/doc/20060731/greider
'His program consists mostly of familiar ideas that might soften the pain for displaced workers. But I doubt the Hamilton proposals will do much, if anything, to reduce the global forces that are depressing incomes for half or more of the American workforce. Even Rubin is uncertain. When I ask if his agenda will have any effect at all on the global convergence of wages -- the top falling gradually toward the rising bottom -- he says: "Well, I think that's a question to which nobody knows the answer. I think the proposals and approach we are proposing are the way to get the best possible outcome for the United States in a complicated world. ... But whether that's going to stop the global convergence of wages, I don't know the answer to that. I would guess the answer is no." '
he had a voice that was strong and loud and
i swallowed his facade cos i'm so
eager to identify with
someone above the crowd
someone who seemed to feel the same
someone prepared to lead the way
First off, I'm going to have to disagree with your 'unattainable' defeatist attitude. Congress doesn't get to tell us how the country is ran....we the people are supposed to tell them and guide them by our voice and votes. If Nader got elected it should send a clear message to the rest of Washington that the citizenry has spoken and want real progress and are no longer complacent with the mediocrity of the Democratic party and their pandering to special interests selling our country off piece by piece. It seems to me they might choose to listen or else lose their seats, as well. But that would only happen in a country where the people acted like they had the power and actually utilized this thing we're supposed to have called Democracy instead of waiting on cues from the media as to who is 'electable'. The media isn't going to limit my decisions or choices.
Secondly, I really don't care to debate with you about how old or angry you view Ralph Nader. I'm hoping for discussions here based on the issues with a little more substance. I hope that most of you aren't making your decisions based on this either...I kinda like to expect more from the usually well informed people who post in this forum for the most part. I'll post a link top the questions I'd like to discuss about Obama's record since that's why the thread was started in the first place.
http://forums.pearljam.com/showpost.php?p=5241070&postcount=35
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde
sure, I have some thoughts about the points raised in the article...
they're subjective, at best...for me, it seems as if he's playing the middle...I mean, what were the details of the bill he opposed, what sort of things were added to the said bills he opposed...? what are the true ramifications of those said votes....?
for me, I want someone who can work with everyone...sure, he's made some choices I don't agree with...and if he gets the nod, I'll be sure to speak out against the things I don't agree with...just because I'm leaning toward Obama, it doesn't mean I'll be walking lock-step with him....
I think I'm looking at this election differently that you...I'm looking for someone who is going to make attempts to work in the middle...I guess I'm looking at what I don't want....I don't want someone who is as divisive as bushy...and billary is that person(s)...s/he is as bad as bush, in my view...
would I love to be able to vote for your boy, Dennis....I sure would....but the voters in earlier primaries did not give me that chance...
again, I have to ask, give me a politician who doesn't "pander"....
Dennis Kucinch
Kucinich obviously didnt do his research on Obama. I cannot believe he would make a recommendation like that without knowing all of the facts. Kucinich is just as bad as the rest of us Moving Train sheep. Sigh.