Victory for the Ladies (those age 18+)

surferdude

Collin wrote:

Do you think people only should have sex if they can support a child in case of an accident? Like when the condom breaks?

Depends, do we want as a society to promote taking responsibility for our actions.

Collin

surferdude wrote:

Depends, do we want as a society to promote taking responsibility for our actions.

I'd like to know if two 18 year olds have sex, and they use a condom and it breaks... do you think that is irresponsible of them? Should they have the baby even though they can't support and take care of it or want it, is that the responsible thing to do? Is that being responsible for their actions?

O-ren Ishii

surferdude wrote:

Depends, do we want as a society to promote taking responsibility for our actions.

Do you think that it currently does?

MCG

Collin wrote:

I'd like to know if two 18 year olds have sex, and they use a condom and it breaks... do you think that is irresponsible of them? Should they have the baby even though they can't support and take care of it or want it, is that the responsible thing to do? Is that being responsible for their actions?

If that's the case I'd say grabbing some Plan B would be a very responsible thing to do indeed.

humanlight

surferdude wrote:

This is ludicous, when this is a thread that is celebrating additional choice. Yet here you are saying the one and only choice a man should have is to have sex or not. Pro choice, my ass.

Exactly...I am not sure how "Pro choice" becomes celebrating abortion either. I am prochoice, but antiabortion (at least for me that is), but everyone should have a choice. god forbid for people be free and be responsible for making a choice. If you don't like the choice someone makes then who really cares. It was not your choice, it was theirs. How does that really effect YOU? (not you that wrote this thread, a more annonamous "you")

Milhouse VanHouten

surferdude wrote:

Depends, do we want as a society to promote taking responsibility for our actions.

How is using Plan B as a secondary protection against an unwanted pregnancy dodging responsibility? Better yet, who, exactly, does the woman have a responsibility to, other than herself? Does she have some sort of obligation to allow a pregnancy to occur if she has unprotected sex?

humanlight

surferdude wrote:

Depends, do we want as a society to promote taking responsibility for our actions.

This is how I chose when I was "ready." If I could deal witht he consequenses, then I was ready....but looking back I just thought that I was. there was no way I could have raised a child back in the day. so even when we think we are "ready" we could still be wrong

humanlight

Roll'n roll'n roll'n, keep this train a roll'n......

I love it! could someone tell me why this topic gets so many responses everytime it is on here. you would think we would get tired of discussing it?

O-ren Ishii

Plan B is not an "easy out", shall we say. It will apparently run anywhere between $25 and $40, which is ridiculous since a whole pack of birth control pills costs less than that. It also causes fairly significant nausea which can lead to vomiting which can lead to loss of the medicine and its effectiveness. To avoid nausea, one can try some anti-nausea medications, but most of them cause profound drowsiness.

This is not something that the average woman is going to want to do all the time. However, it is nice to know that there is a readily-available back-up should she need it.

VictoryGin

O-ren Ishii wrote:

Plan B is not an "easy out", shall we say. It will apparently run anywhere between $25 and $40, which is ridiculous since a whole pack of birth control pills costs less than that. It also causes fairly significant nausea which can lead to vomiting which can lead to loss of the medicine and its effectiveness. To avoid nausea, one can try some anti-nausea medications, but most of them cause profound drowsiness.

This is not something that the average woman is going to want to do all the time. However, it is nice to know that there is a readily-available back-up should she need it.

It doesn't cause nausea for everyone. Like anything else, it may affect people differently. One thing that helps is doing it in 2 doses, not one (two pills 12 hours apart). Also like you said, you could take additional nausea aids if you want. And I mean, shouldn't women deserve to feel bad for being in this situation anyway? (totally kidding with that last question.)

Also, many people do pay $30 for usual OCPs--not that I'm saying that is acceptable. I had a feeling the OTC Plan B would be expensive.

Abookamongstthemany

Milhouse VanHouten wrote:

How is using Plan B as a secondary protection against an unwanted pregnancy dodging responsibility? Better yet, who, exactly, does the woman have a responsibility to, other than herself? Does she have some sort of obligation to allow a pregnancy to occur if she has unprotected sex?

good question.

surferdude

Collin wrote:

I'd like to know if two 18 year olds have sex, and they use a condom and it breaks... do you think that is irresponsible of them? Should they have the baby even though they can't support and take care of it or want it, is that the responsible thing to do? Is that being responsible for their actions?

Being in a position to manage unintended but foreseeable outcomes of your actions is part of being responsible.

Milhouse VanHouten

Abookamongstthemany wrote:

good question.

There's no obligation to the unborn child, since Plan B doesn't work if you're already pregnant. I guess it's your obligation to Yahweh or God or Allah or L. Ron Hubbard, who knows?

Of course, if it is a religious obligation/responsibility, then people really shouldn't push it on others who don't share the same religious beliefs...

1970RR

surferdude wrote:

Being in a position to manage unintended but foreseeable outcomes of your actions is part of being responsible.

And the availablity of this drug OTC helps to improve your position, thereby increasing your ability to be responsible.

Collin

1970RR wrote:

And the availablity of this drug OTC helps to improve your position, thereby increasing your ability to be responsible.

exactly.

chipboy

My opinion. Life starts at conception. Any method of terminating that life is murder. I don't believe in god so I don't have any religious foundation to my beliefs. However, since murder(abortion) is legal I see no reason why the easiest, cheapest, and safest methods of murder should not be available. I will continue to vote for people who are in support of making all forms of abortion illegal.

surferdude

Milhouse VanHouten wrote:

How is using Plan B as a secondary protection against an unwanted pregnancy dodging responsibility? Better yet, who, exactly, does the woman have a responsibility to, other than herself? Does she have some sort of obligation to allow a pregnancy to occur if she has unprotected sex?

You have me wrong. I'm not against Plan B in any way.

As to who the woman has a responsibility to, I thought that would be obvious. If men are going to be held fiscally responsible for the child even when that is not the man's decision, then same level of responsibility should be used for the woman. Fiscally responsible for the child with abortion noot being an option.

callen

humanlight wrote:

Roll'n roll'n roll'n, keep this train a roll'n......

I love it! could someone tell me why this topic gets so many responses everytime it is on here. you would think we would get tired of discussing it?

It cuts right to the root of the abortion debate....obviously (for me anyway) there is no freakin way what's lodged in a womans tubes (I know I have this wrong...sorry ladies) the night after sex resembles in any form a human being that has rights. The exxxxtrrreeeme right though doesn't see it that way...its a child at conception...hence us pro choicers are rubbing this in pro lifers noses...thats all.

Funny thing is having Pro Lifers come up with some type of justification other than "Its in the Bible" but they know that won't fly. Funny stuff....

callen

surferdude wrote:

You have me wrong. I'm not against Plan B in any way.

As to who the woman has a responsibility to, I thought that would be obvious. If men are going to be held fiscally responsible for the child even when that is not the man's decision, then same level of responsibility should be used for the woman. Fiscally responsible for the child with abortion noot being an option.

I understand men wanting to have the rights...and being man can just imagine...impregnating a woman and wanting the baby..but she doesn't ....but ultimately its her body. Conversely if she wants the baby but the man doesn't...again its her body....and you know as a man..once you do it...you accepted these terms. This is how it currently is and its the only and I think best way.

surferdude

callen wrote:

I understand men wanting to have the rights...and being man can just imagine...impregnating a woman and wanting the baby..but she doesn't ....but ultimately its her body. Conversely if she wants the baby but the man doesn't...again its her body....and you know as a man..once you do it...you accepted these terms. This is how it currently is and its the only and I think best way.

To dismiss discussion of the topic as "This is how it currently is" seems more than a little closeminded. I can only imagine if this was the tact taken during the fight for civil rights. It is time to change those terms. As society progresses we should be looking at ways to address inequalities and inequities between the sexes, for the betterment of all.