How did this turn into a debate on responsibility? Taking action to prevent an unwanted consequence IS responsible! Why does it matter if that action is taken before or after sex? What's it to you if some women use this as their only method of birth control?
Seems to me that a lot of people have a problem with women being able to have sex whenever they feel like it.
This is a blessing to rape victims, particularly those unfortunate enough to be taken by ambulance to a Catholic hospital where it never was and probably never will be offered, but of course it isn't only for them. It's for when the condom breaks. It's for when the suitcase with your pills doesn't get to Hawaii until three days after you do. It's for when an unexpected opportunity arises and you don't have your diaphragm with you. It's for when Mr. Cuervo convinces you that something is a good idea, and the next day you realize that it probably wasn't.
Maybe you think a lifetime of unwanted parenthood is a just penalty for a single night of drunken stupidity, but I don't. I don't have a need for this pill anymore, but I sure am glad it's there for my daughters and for every other woman who wants it.
I am standing up and applauding out loud!!!!! Amen Sister!!!!
How did this turn into a debate on responsibility? Taking action to prevent an unwanted consequence IS responsible! Why does it matter if that action is taken before or after sex? What's it to you if some women use this as their only method of birth control?
Seems to me that a lot of people have a problem with women being able to have sex whenever they feel like it.
This is a blessing to rape victims, particularly those unfortunate enough to be taken by ambulance to a Catholic hospital where it never was and probably never will be offered, but of course it isn't only for them. It's for when the condom breaks. It's for when the suitcase with your pills doesn't get to Hawaii until three days after you do. It's for when an unexpected opportunity arises and you don't have your diaphragm with you. It's for when Mr. Cuervo convinces you that something is a good idea, and the next day you realize that it probably wasn't.
Maybe you think a lifetime of unwanted parenthood is a just penalty for a single night of drunken stupidity, but I don't. I don't have a need for this pill anymore, but I sure am glad it's there for my daughters and for every other woman who wants it.
Amen! I say AMEN!
Take charge of your sexuality!
if you wanna be a friend of mine
cross the river to the eastside
I agree with the argument that this is a good thing for women who became pregnant from rape, I've used it myself once or twice on different topics. However, it seems to me that the ratio of the number rape victims using Plan B compared to the number of women who just didn't use birth control in a consentual sexual situation using Plan B will be quite small.
Does anyone know the percentage of accidental pregnancies that are attributed to rape?
Which came first,
the bad idea or me befallen by it?
How did this turn into a debate on responsibility? Taking action to prevent an unwanted consequence IS responsible! Why does it matter if that action is taken before or after sex? What's it to you if some women use this as their only method of birth control?
Come on, hippiemom, didn't you know that the #1 fringe benefit of living by a strict moral code is that you get to criticize people who don't believe exactly what you believe?
"Of course it hurts. You're getting fucked by an elephant."
I agree with the argument that this is a good thing for women who became pregnant from rape, I've used it myself once or twice on different topics. However, it seems to me that the ratio of the number rape victims using Plan B compared to the number of women who just didn't use birth control in a consentual sexual situation using Plan B will be quite small.
Does anyone know the percentage of accidental pregnancies that are attributed to rape?
Does anyone know what difference it makes?
WHY does it matter what reason a woman has for using this?
"Nothing in the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity." ~ MLK, 1963
Here is another scenerio where Plan B is a good thing:
A commited couple is have sex and using condoms at thier form of protection. the condom breaks! they were being responsible, but something happened. does that constitue a doctor's visit. Like someone else said on here. the pill is called Plan B, meaing (oh crap...something happened that we did not expect).
EXACTLY... my fiance and I had this situation happen, and it was on a friday night. We couldn't wait until Monday since the pill would be pretty much worthless, so our choices were A) going to the ER and getting a prescription (and paying out of the ass) or take a chances and hope for the best.
Not that a pregnancy would be the end of the world because we are getting married, but the timing wasn't exactly the best for a pregnancy.
I find it funny that people would think women won't be responsible enough to use birth control, but would be responsible enough to use Plan B after sex every time as a form of BC. If you are that irresponsible to rely on Plan B as your only means of birth control, chances are you wouldn't be responsible enought to take it either.
My whole life
was like a picture
of a sunny day
“We can complain because rose bushes have thorns, or rejoice because thorn bushes have roses.”
― Abraham Lincoln
WHY does it matter what main reason a woman has for using this?
Well, it seems to be the reason some are advocating the use of the pill. I'm just asking questions so I can make a decision whether or not this is really a valid point. If say 1 of 100 or 1 of 1000 were using it for that reason then that shouldn't be the major selling point of an arguement for Plan B. Majority is one thing but a vast minority is another.
I'm not saying it matters why they are using it, just trying to see if this point holds water.
Which came first,
the bad idea or me befallen by it?
Ummmm..."your choices" Honey it takes two at least, and one of them biologically needs to be a male....so should it not be your responsibilty too?
So you think people should be held fiscally responsible for choices they have no right to make, nor is their any requirement for the person the decision ask the man for any input as to the decision.
“One good thing about music,
when it hits you, you feel to pain.
So brutalize me with music.”
~ Bob Marley
So you think people should be held fiscally responsible for choices they have no right to make, nor is their any requirement for the person the decision ask the man for any input as to the decision.
Not sure what you are asking me...your sentence is going in circles. Try again, and I will try to respond.
I think it's sad, and really indicative of the real issues, that people comment on a person's reasons for using a safe, legal, medication. This kind of conversation doesn't happen with other OTC pills like tylenol, advil, pepcid; or prescription drugs like zantac, allegra, or viagra.
if you wanna be a friend of mine
cross the river to the eastside
Not sure what you are asking me...your sentence is going in circles. Try again, and I will try to respond.
Celebrating a woman's sexuality can and often involves holding men fiscally responsible for their sexuality decisions. Yet at no point is there any requirement for any woman to ask for input into her sexual celebratory decisions that hold men fiscally responsible.
“One good thing about music,
when it hits you, you feel to pain.
So brutalize me with music.”
~ Bob Marley
I think it's sad, and really indicative of the real issues, that people comment on a person's reasons for using a safe, legal, medication. This kind of conversation doesn't happen with other OTC pills like tylenol, advil, pepcid; or prescription drugs like zantac, allegra, or viagra.
Right! I mean, a responsible person would just elimate the stress before your headache comes!
How did this turn into a debate on responsibility? Taking action to prevent an unwanted consequence IS responsible! Why does it matter if that action is taken before or after sex? What's it to you if some women use this as their only method of birth control?
Seems to me that a lot of people have a problem with women being able to have sex whenever they feel like it.
This is a blessing to rape victims, particularly those unfortunate enough to be taken by ambulance to a Catholic hospital where it never was and probably never will be offered, but of course it isn't only for them. It's for when the condom breaks. It's for when the suitcase with your pills doesn't get to Hawaii until three days after you do. It's for when an unexpected opportunity arises and you don't have your diaphragm with you. It's for when Mr. Cuervo convinces you that something is a good idea, and the next day you realize that it probably wasn't.
Maybe you think a lifetime of unwanted parenthood is a just penalty for a single night of drunken stupidity, but I don't. I don't have a need for this pill anymore, but I sure am glad it's there for my daughters and for every other woman who wants it.
Understand that i'm not trying to be confrontational, nor am i "dropping bombs" here. I would agree that this is acceptable or perhaps even "a blessing", as you put it, for rape victims. You know damn well, however, that this pill being made available OTC has nothing to do with rape victims. Its ridiculous to even use that in this particular debate. In such circumstances, as i mentioned earlier, it should be easily obtained through several emergency authorities. For free! Any other circumstance is merely a cop out on real responsibility IMO. Mr. Cuervo for fucks sake?! This only illustrates the point i have made forever about bad choices. It has nothing to do with choice. It has everything to do with responsibility. Responsibility that should be taken before hand. You hit the nail on the head when you mentioneed people wanting to be able to have sex whenever and with whoever they want. Problem is they want not to be troubled with PREcaution and responsibility. Sex is not some game. "Fuck it, i'll just take a 'day after' pill". Stupid. Irresponsible.
"When all your friends and sedatives mean well but make it worse... better find yourself a place to level out."
Celebrating a woman's sexuality can and often involves holding men fiscally responsible for their sexuality decisions. Yet at no point is there any requirement for any woman to ask for input into her sexual celebratory decisions that hold men fiscally responsible.
I am sorry, I am really trying to follow you. So...let me see if I am getting any of this? You are saying that sexualy active women (or women who celebrate thier sexuality) tell men they need to pay up when they become pregnant (holding men fiscally repsonsible). However, we women are never financial held responsible for the decision.
If anyone else has an opion about this it would be great, b/c I think I am just not getting it!
And then blame you for the headache and punish you for your irresponsible choices by witholding the safe tylenol.
Yep...that would surely show us! It makes far more sense to go to the hospital, set 4 hours, plead your case (oh, it is midterm time and I am under lots of stress), to be given a single pill that would cost like $400 (includes ER visit).
I think it's sad, and really indicative of the real issues, that people comment on a person's reasons for using a safe, legal, medication. This kind of conversation doesn't happen with other OTC pills like tylenol, advil, pepcid; or prescription drugs like zantac, allegra, or viagra.
Here is more illustration of my point. We may not be having this discussion if people didn't equate sex and unwanted pregnancy with sinus headaches and heartburn, for God's sake.
"When all your friends and sedatives mean well but make it worse... better find yourself a place to level out."
Understand that i'm not trying to be confrontational, nor am i "dropping bombs" here. I would agree that this is acceptable or perhaps even "a blessing", as you put it, for rape victims. You know damn well, however, that this pill being made available OTC has nothing to do with rape victims. Its ridiculous to even use that in this particular debate. In such circumstances, as i mentioned earlier, it should be easily obtained through several emergency authorities. For free! Any other circumstance is merely a cop out on real responsibility IMO. Mr. Cuervo for fucks sake?! This only illustrates the point i have made forever about bad choices. It has nothing to do with choice. It has everything to do with responsibility. Responsibility that should be taken before hand. You hit the nail on the head when you mentioneed people wanting to be able to have sex whenever and with whoever they want. Problem is they want not to be troubled with PREcaution and responsibility. Sex is not some game. "Fuck it, i'll just take a 'day after' pill". Stupid. Irresponsible.
What about this situation: "Oh shit...the condom broke?" don't tell me that does not happen. you were responsible, but yet now you need a PLAN B! that is the whole point! a second plan!
Understand that i'm not trying to be confrontational, nor am i "dropping bombs" here. I would agree that this is acceptable or perhaps even "a blessing", as you put it, for rape victims. You know damn well, however, that this pill being made available OTC has nothing to do with rape victims. Its ridiculous to even use that in this particular debate. In such circumstances, as i mentioned earlier, it should be easily obtained through several emergency authorities. For free! Any other circumstance is merely a cop out on real responsibility IMO. Mr. Cuervo for fucks sake?! This only illustrates the point i have made forever about bad choices. It has nothing to do with choice. It has everything to do with responsibility. Responsibility that should be taken before hand. You hit the nail on the head when you mentioneed people wanting to be able to have sex whenever and with whoever they want. Problem is they want not to be troubled with PREcaution and responsibility. Sex is not some game. "Fuck it, i'll just take a 'day after' pill". Stupid. Irresponsible.
But people have sex... a lot... they always have and always will. This is one more step in having responsible sex. Obviously you should take precautions, but sometimes that isn't enough, or they don't work. Do you honestly think that having this availible OTC will increase the amount of sex people have? Even if it does, why does that bother you?
My whole life
was like a picture
of a sunny day
“We can complain because rose bushes have thorns, or rejoice because thorn bushes have roses.”
― Abraham Lincoln
Here is more illustration of my point. We may not be having this discussion if people didn't equate sex and unwanted pregnancy with sinus headaches and heartburn, for God's sake.
Yeah, I totally see your point. And I totally disagree with it.
This pill prevents unwanted pregnancy. I can agree to some extent that sex is not the same as a sinus headache or heartburn in the way that sex is usually more enjoyable. Our difference is that I don't think there is anything wrong with people having sex.
if you wanna be a friend of mine
cross the river to the eastside
Here is more illustration of my point. We may not be having this discussion if people didn't equate sex and unwanted pregnancy with sinus headaches and heartburn, for God's sake.
Sex is natural...its good...for body and soul. Why is it thats its such a big deal....
But people have sex... a lot... they always have and always will. This is one more step in having responsible sex. Obviously you should take precautions, but sometimes that isn't enough, or they don't work. Do you honestly think that having this availible OTC will increase the amount of sex people have? Even if it does, why does that bother you?
i think it takes the personal responsibility OUT of it. No, i don't think this will effect the amount of sex people have. As a matter of fact, i'm pretty sure it won't. And no, it doesn't bother me one way or the other. The fact that people have sex a lot doesn't make it always a good choice.
i'm getting alot of "condoms break" kind of stuff. When used properly, by someone with a normal, human sized weiner, within the boundaries of the expiration date, they usually don't. No one blows a load that hard. Knowing how to use one properly is part of the responsibility. Thats first of all. Secondly, knowing that, if not used properly, a condom may break, a person may want to consider using said condom IN ADDITION to some other form of birth control such as standard oral contraception, diaphram etc. Cop outs don't work on me.
"When all your friends and sedatives mean well but make it worse... better find yourself a place to level out."
"The adult pregnancy rate associated with rape is estimated to be 4.7%. This information, in conjunction with estimates based on the U.S. Census, suggest that there may be 32,101 annual rape-related pregnancies among American women over the age of 18."
32,000 women a year and nearly 5% of all pregnancies certainly makes a strong enough case for me.
Which came first,
the bad idea or me befallen by it?
Its really quite simple...some think life begins at conception some don't. Those that feel that life begins at conception are against this as they feel a baby is being killed. Those that don't...think this as just a medication humans invented to stop the creation of a baby.
All the talk about responsibility, choices etc are simply smoke screens for the abortion debate. Thats my view...no bombs falling. (-:
The really cool part of this debate is that it cuts to the chase.....at conception...not the first trimester..not the second or third...this aborts at conception....thats what makes this topic so interesting.
Comments
I am standing up and applauding out loud!!!!! Amen Sister!!!!
Amen! I say AMEN!
Take charge of your sexuality!
cross the river to the eastside
when it hits you, you feel to pain.
So brutalize me with music.”
~ Bob Marley
Does anyone know the percentage of accidental pregnancies that are attributed to rape?
the bad idea or me befallen by it?
Come on, hippiemom, didn't you know that the #1 fringe benefit of living by a strict moral code is that you get to criticize people who don't believe exactly what you believe?
WHY does it matter what reason a woman has for using this?
Ummmm..."your choices" Honey it takes two at least, and one of them biologically needs to be a male....so should it not be your responsibilty too?
I think you are asking the perfect questions, and I am anxiously waiting on a reply from those who feel unconfortable about this pill.
EXACTLY... my fiance and I had this situation happen, and it was on a friday night. We couldn't wait until Monday since the pill would be pretty much worthless, so our choices were A) going to the ER and getting a prescription (and paying out of the ass) or
Not that a pregnancy would be the end of the world because we are getting married, but the timing wasn't exactly the best for a pregnancy.
I find it funny that people would think women won't be responsible enough to use birth control, but would be responsible enough to use Plan B after sex every time as a form of BC. If you are that irresponsible to rely on Plan B as your only means of birth control, chances are you wouldn't be responsible enought to take it either.
was like a picture
of a sunny day
“We can complain because rose bushes have thorns, or rejoice because thorn bushes have roses.”
― Abraham Lincoln
Well, it seems to be the reason some are advocating the use of the pill. I'm just asking questions so I can make a decision whether or not this is really a valid point. If say 1 of 100 or 1 of 1000 were using it for that reason then that shouldn't be the major selling point of an arguement for Plan B. Majority is one thing but a vast minority is another.
I'm not saying it matters why they are using it, just trying to see if this point holds water.
the bad idea or me befallen by it?
when it hits you, you feel to pain.
So brutalize me with music.”
~ Bob Marley
I think the point is that any reason is valid, and there are many different reasons to use this pill.
I certainly hope that holds water. *crosses fingers*
cross the river to the eastside
Not sure what you are asking me...your sentence is going in circles. Try again, and I will try to respond.
cross the river to the eastside
when it hits you, you feel to pain.
So brutalize me with music.”
~ Bob Marley
Right! I mean, a responsible person would just elimate the stress before your headache comes!
Understand that i'm not trying to be confrontational, nor am i "dropping bombs" here. I would agree that this is acceptable or perhaps even "a blessing", as you put it, for rape victims. You know damn well, however, that this pill being made available OTC has nothing to do with rape victims. Its ridiculous to even use that in this particular debate. In such circumstances, as i mentioned earlier, it should be easily obtained through several emergency authorities. For free! Any other circumstance is merely a cop out on real responsibility IMO. Mr. Cuervo for fucks sake?! This only illustrates the point i have made forever about bad choices. It has nothing to do with choice. It has everything to do with responsibility. Responsibility that should be taken before hand. You hit the nail on the head when you mentioneed people wanting to be able to have sex whenever and with whoever they want. Problem is they want not to be troubled with PREcaution and responsibility. Sex is not some game. "Fuck it, i'll just take a 'day after' pill". Stupid. Irresponsible.
And then blame you for the headache and punish you for your irresponsible choices by witholding the safe tylenol.
cross the river to the eastside
I am sorry, I am really trying to follow you. So...let me see if I am getting any of this? You are saying that sexualy active women (or women who celebrate thier sexuality) tell men they need to pay up when they become pregnant (holding men fiscally repsonsible). However, we women are never financial held responsible for the decision.
If anyone else has an opion about this it would be great, b/c I think I am just not getting it!
Yep...that would surely show us! It makes far more sense to go to the hospital, set 4 hours, plead your case (oh, it is midterm time and I am under lots of stress), to be given a single pill that would cost like $400 (includes ER visit).
Here is more illustration of my point. We may not be having this discussion if people didn't equate sex and unwanted pregnancy with sinus headaches and heartburn, for God's sake.
What about this situation: "Oh shit...the condom broke?" don't tell me that does not happen. you were responsible, but yet now you need a PLAN B! that is the whole point! a second plan!
But people have sex... a lot... they always have and always will. This is one more step in having responsible sex. Obviously you should take precautions, but sometimes that isn't enough, or they don't work. Do you honestly think that having this availible OTC will increase the amount of sex people have? Even if it does, why does that bother you?
was like a picture
of a sunny day
“We can complain because rose bushes have thorns, or rejoice because thorn bushes have roses.”
― Abraham Lincoln
Hey Hippiemom....I got a bottle of Cuervo...wanna go for a ride....
Kidding of course...loved your post...pretty much nailed it.
Yeah, I totally see your point. And I totally disagree with it.
This pill prevents unwanted pregnancy. I can agree to some extent that sex is not the same as a sinus headache or heartburn in the way that sex is usually more enjoyable. Our difference is that I don't think there is anything wrong with people having sex.
cross the river to the eastside
Sex is natural...its good...for body and soul. Why is it thats its such a big deal....
taking a pill before sex = responsible
taking a pill after sex = irresponsilble
is that about right?
i think it takes the personal responsibility OUT of it. No, i don't think this will effect the amount of sex people have. As a matter of fact, i'm pretty sure it won't. And no, it doesn't bother me one way or the other. The fact that people have sex a lot doesn't make it always a good choice.
i'm getting alot of "condoms break" kind of stuff. When used properly, by someone with a normal, human sized weiner, within the boundaries of the expiration date, they usually don't. No one blows a load that hard. Knowing how to use one properly is part of the responsibility. Thats first of all. Secondly, knowing that, if not used properly, a condom may break, a person may want to consider using said condom IN ADDITION to some other form of birth control such as standard oral contraception, diaphram etc. Cop outs don't work on me.
"The adult pregnancy rate associated with rape is estimated to be 4.7%. This information, in conjunction with estimates based on the U.S. Census, suggest that there may be 32,101 annual rape-related pregnancies among American women over the age of 18."
32,000 women a year and nearly 5% of all pregnancies certainly makes a strong enough case for me.
the bad idea or me befallen by it?
All the talk about responsibility, choices etc are simply smoke screens for the abortion debate. Thats my view...no bombs falling. (-:
The really cool part of this debate is that it cuts to the chase.....at conception...not the first trimester..not the second or third...this aborts at conception....thats what makes this topic so interesting.