Understand that i'm not trying to be confrontational, nor am i "dropping bombs" here. I would agree that this is acceptable or perhaps even "a blessing", as you put it, for rape victims. You know damn well, however, that this pill being made available OTC has nothing to do with rape victims. Its ridiculous to even use that in this particular debate. In such circumstances, as i mentioned earlier, it should be easily obtained through several emergency authorities. For free! Any other circumstance is merely a cop out on real responsibility IMO. Mr. Cuervo for fucks sake?! This only illustrates the point i have made forever about bad choices. It has nothing to do with choice. It has everything to do with responsibility. Responsibility that should be taken before hand. You hit the nail on the head when you mentioneed people wanting to be able to have sex whenever and with whoever they want. Problem is they want not to be troubled with PREcaution and responsibility. Sex is not some game. "Fuck it, i'll just take a 'day after' pill". Stupid. Irresponsible.
Hurray, the Train is back & running. Too bad I only have time for one post.
I agree with hippiemom's post (the one you replied to), but I think I see where you stand as well. I agree, there are many irresponsible folks out there, but, if used properly, this Plan B pill works very similar to traditional birth control pills. Why not just go all the way and say, 'women who take the pill just want to have irresponsible sex'. I don't think that is the norm for most people. It's like the big deal with the HPV vaccine and the folks that say this vaccine will promote irresponsible sex. It's a ridiculous argument. You can't control others and push your morals on them. I'm not trying to be difficult, I'm sure my personal views on sex might be similar to yours, but I have NO business expecting others (other than my kid ) to abide by them. Like hippiemom said, it's nobody's business why people use this pill.
Also, to address another point you made, there are articles that have been posted here before that discussed women having trouble getting this pill from pharmacists & hospitals due to 'moral issues'. There was even a case where this was a problem for a rape victim.
The greatest obstacle to discovery is not ignorance,
but the illusion of knowledge.
~Daniel Boorstin
Only a life lived for others is worth living.
~Albert Einstein
Understand that i'm not trying to be confrontational, nor am i "dropping bombs" here. I would agree that this is acceptable or perhaps even "a blessing", as you put it, for rape victims. You know damn well, however, that this pill being made available OTC has nothing to do with rape victims. Its ridiculous to even use that in this particular debate. In such circumstances, as i mentioned earlier, it should be easily obtained through several emergency authorities. For free! Any other circumstance is merely a cop out on real responsibility IMO. Mr. Cuervo for fucks sake?! This only illustrates the point i have made forever about bad choices. It has nothing to do with choice. It has everything to do with responsibility. Responsibility that should be taken before hand. You hit the nail on the head when you mentioneed people wanting to be able to have sex whenever and with whoever they want. Problem is they want not to be troubled with PREcaution and responsibility. Sex is not some game. "Fuck it, i'll just take a 'day after' pill". Stupid. Irresponsible.
It certainly does have something to do with rape victims, because this is a drug that's long been offered to them at non-Catholic hospitals, but if you had the misfortune to be transported to a Catholic hospital you were never even told of it's existence. And I imagine this is something that 99% of rape victims, Catholic or not, would want. With over six hundred thousand women being raped each year, you can hardly call this some sort of side issue. That's a lot of women!
I'm very happy for you that you have never made a mistake, that you have never made an irresponsible choice, but few of us are as perfect as you, particularly when we are young. I'm curious though as to WHY responsibility must be taken beforehand? What exactly is the problem with saying "Fuck it, I'll just take a 'day after' pill"? How does this affect you in any way, how is it any of your business? And why should you or anyone else be the arbiter of morality for me?
"Nothing in the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity." ~ MLK, 1963
Its also a big fucking responsibility. One someone has someone has alot more control over than headaches and indigestion.
how is it a big responsibility...if two people want to have sex...go at it. It's not some magical, holy thing...its just sex. Yes love can be included and that makes it even better...hence making love....still the responsible thing to do is not create a human if you don't want one.....theres enough of those on this planet already....again..no bombs...just how I see it.
knowing that, if not used properly, a condom may break, a person may want to consider using said condom IN ADDITION to some other form of birth control such as standard oral contraception, diaphram etc.
OR a morning after pill, which is indeed another form of contraception.
how is it a big responsibility...if two people want to have sex...go at it. It's not some magical, holy thing...its just sex. Yes love can be included and that makes it even better...hence making love....still the responsible thing to do is not create a human if you don't want one.....theres enough of those on this planet already....again..no bombs...just how I see it.
I disagree. I think this is a bomb. A rational bomb!
if you wanna be a friend of mine
cross the river to the eastside
taking a pill before sex = responsible
taking a pill after sex = convienient way of avoiding responsibility.
Are you advocating that those "irresponsible people" should be raising children? If you're upset because you believe the use of Plan B indicates a lack of responsibility (I strongly diagree), why would you want them to be responsible for another life? The use of Plan B is beneficial in numerous situations, including when a woman realizes she is at risk for becoming pregnant but is not ready/does not want to be a parent.
taking a pill before sex = responsible
taking a pill after sex = convienient way of avoiding responsibility.
It's the same chemical (or hormone), though, isn't it? Say a woman has sex with her long term partner one night, then later when it comes time for her to take her daily pill, she notices that she forgot a day or two. Couldn't she then just take two or three of her pills and get the same effect as Plan B?
It's an honest question, I'm not sure. I do know of some women who have done that, though. If it is, is that irresponsible? Or would it be more responsible for her to say "shit. I forgot. I guess I deserve what's going to happen for the next 18 + years of my life." Or would it be more responsible to take the extra dose - or, say, run to the pharmacy for Plan B?
Perhaps this is an abortion issue for you, I'm not sure. But it's coming across as you having a problem with sex itself.
How does this affect you in any way, how is it any of your business? And why should you or anyone else be the arbiter of morality for me?
It doesn't effect me personally. At least not directly. i've already stated this. And i'm not trying to be the "arbiter of morality" for anyone. I've been around here long enough, and you've read enough of my posts that i thought you would have known this by now. If thats what it comes down to, disagreement always being equal to an attempted forced morality, then why even have the train? i'm just stating opinions just like anyone else. Why is that so wrong? Sorry if my rational disagreement offends you.
Also, i've never claimed to be perfect. Far from it actually. i'm actually a real fucking loser. That doesn't exempt me from having opinions.
"When all your friends and sedatives mean well but make it worse... better find yourself a place to level out."
taking a pill before sex = responsible
taking a pill after sex = convienient way of avoiding responsibility.
I consider Plan B to be a responsible method of avoiding an unwanted pregnancy. Obviosly, if you're at this point some irresponsible behvior (no protection against an STD during sex) may have already taken place, but now you are taking responsibility for your actions and dealing with the consequences of that behavior in a quick and discrete manner.
Which came first,
the bad idea or me befallen by it?
Taking the pill before sex = responsible
Taking the pill after sex = responsible
Having a baby you don't want = irresponsible
isn't that really about right???
Yea, I mean I agree with you..It is just strange to me that b/c we take the pill AFTER sex, then we somehow become irresponsible. It is just crazy to me.
It's the same chemical (or hormone), though, isn't it? Say a woman has sex with her long term partner one night, then later when it comes time for her to take her daily pill, she notices that she forgot a day or two. Couldn't she then just take two or three of her pills and get the same effect as Plan B?
yes and no. plan b is generally a higher dose of the everyday OCP. if she just catches up with her own pills, it could be too late and that dose is not high enough. she would have to take more than 2 (but only using certain brands), so she might not have enough in her pill pack if she had the right kind to begin with. plan b is a lot easier to use because that is only two pills and you don't have to already be using a certain brand of pills.
if you wanna be a friend of mine
cross the river to the eastside
I think we should step back and look at what all of us are posting. All of us who are for PLAN B are advocating it as just what it is ment for....a second plan.
rape
forgot a birth control pill
did not bring your diaphram
condom broke
patch feel off
____________ (fill in the blank)
We all know that no contriception is 100% accurate. so when something does go wrong with them...it makes me feel better that I know have a plan B, hell give me a plan C,D, and E! More the better my option.
A quick comment: How come in this thread and others I have read. It seems to be when the word responsibility comes up it usually is refered to for the woman. It takes two to tango. The guy can bag it up just as easy as asking if she is protected. But the onus seems to be on the person who has to carry the "mistake" for nine months knowing full well that the guy in most cases if she has to go the way of the thread, won't be around. I would say it is up to her.
yes and no. plan b is generally a higher dose of the everyday OCP. if she just catches up with her own pills, it could be too late and that dose is not high enough. she would have to take more than 2 (but only using certain brands), so she might not have enough in her pill pack if she had the right kind to begin with. plan b is a lot easier to use because that is only two pills and you don't have to already be using a certain brand of pills.
Thanks for the information. Say the brand is Ortho Tri-Cyclin, she keeps an extra pack on hand for just such an occassion, and takes three of them --- Um, not that I'm, uh, speaking from experience or anything - but if I was, it would have happened long before this Plan B was cleared. Not that anything happened, mind you.
I agree that this Plan B contraceptive is the best way to go in emergency situations. It's definitely a victory, as you say. But - not that I'm speaking from experience, mind you - I'd say its a victory for everyone; not just the ladies.
It doesn't effect me personally. At least not directly. i've already stated this. And i'm not trying to be the "arbiter of morality" for anyone. I've been around here long enough, and you've read enough of my posts that i thought you would have known this by now. If thats what it comes down to, disagreement always being equal to an attempted forced morality, then why even have the train? i'm just stating opinions just like anyone else. Why is that so wrong? Sorry if my rational disagreement offends you.
Also, i've never claimed to be perfect. Far from it actually. i'm actually a real fucking loser. That doesn't exempt me from having opinions.
Sorry, but that's how it comes across. There's no debate about how you feel personally and what you do in your own life ... obviously, if you and your partner don't like this pill for whatever reason, you won't use it. The debate is about public policy, for or against this being available over the counter. And it certainly does come across as moralizing when you go on and on about the irresponsibility of using birth control after, rather than prior to, sex. And for someone who admits to making many mistakes (as we all have), it seems a bit harsh to say pregnancy and a lifetime of unwanted parenthood is what someone deserves for making what is, in your view, a poor decision.
It just astounds me that anyone could be opposed to a safe, effective method of birth control that will prevent abortions, not to mention providing peace of mind to millions of women. I was never promiscous, but I can think of a few times when this pill would have taken a load off my mind, to say the least. And if I had been promiscous, so what? It's no one's business but my own.
"Nothing in the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity." ~ MLK, 1963
A quick comment: How come in this thread and others I have read. It seems to be when the word responsibility comes up it usually is refered to for the woman. It takes two to tango. The guy can bag it up just as easy as asking if she is protected. But the onus seems to be on the person who has to carry the "mistake" for nine months knowing full well that the guy in most cases if she has to go the way of the thread, won't be around. I would say it is up to her.
Well I've brought up repeatedly the absurdity of holding men fiscally responsible for a choice they have no say in.
“One good thing about music,
when it hits you, you feel to pain.
So brutalize me with music.”
~ Bob Marley
Well I've brought up repeatedly the absurdity of holding men fiscally responsible for a choice they have no say in.
That is the opposite of what I was trying to say in a way. Hey, if it is a "mistake" and one party, the one not carrying the "mistake" wants out. They should pay. After all, she didn't blow him, practice yoga and then impregnate herself. Sorry for the graphics, but man, a man has to be responsible too.
Well I've brought up repeatedly the absurdity of holding men fiscally responsible for a choice they have no say in.
Nothing absurd. Quite simple really. A couple has a child they are both responsible. The decision to get there is no more your concern that it is a matter of public policy. Are you absurdly suggesting men be legislated veto power over their partners use of this method?
That is the opposite of what I was trying to say in a way. Hey, if it is a "mistake" and one party, the one not carrying the "mistake" wants out. They should pay. After all, she didn't blow him, practice yoga and then impregnate herself. Sorry for the graphics, but man, a man has to be responsible too.
He wore a condom, he was responsible. Now what? If we are going to hold him fiscally responsible then he should be given the same type of choices given a woman in the name of equality. obviously he can't have the same choices but it woul dbe very easy to give a man the choice to walk away with no parental rights or obligations including financial responsibilities within the first trimester of preganancy, or even within the first three days of sex. Currently the is no equality or semblence of fairness or balance in the current legislation. It is up to the woman to decide to carry on with a possible preganacy, then up to the woman to decide to carry on with a pregnancy, then up to a woman to decide to name the father on the birth certificate. But a man has to prove he's not the father (no presumption of innocence here) to not pay child support, but a mother does not need to prove paternity to apply to the courts for child support. A man also is not given any automatic parental rights by being a father, where as a woman is given full parental rights just for being female. The system is so far out of kiliter it is ridiculous.
“One good thing about music,
when it hits you, you feel to pain.
So brutalize me with music.”
~ Bob Marley
Thanks for the information. Say the brand is Ortho Tri-Cyclin, she keeps an extra pack on hand for just such an occassion, and takes three of them --- Um, not that I'm, uh, speaking from experience or anything - but if I was, it would have happened long before this Plan B was cleared. Not that anything happened, mind you.
I agree that this Plan B contraceptive is the best way to go in emergency situations. It's definitely a victory, as you say. But - not that I'm speaking from experience, mind you - I'd say its a victory for everyone; not just the ladies.
Please tell your hypothetical friend that OrthoTriCyc doesn't really cut it. Whew, thank goodness everything worked out though. On a sidenote, I'm curious why your hypothetical friend uses OrthoTri instead of OrthoCyclen (almost the same thing, but monophasic). Triphasic does work better for some, but if your friend hasn't tried OrthoCyclen and is ever interested in skipping periods, well that's an option.
Okay, sorry. *Just in case* any friends need this infor, here are the pills you can use as EC in place of something like Plan B:
Progestin-only Pills
Plan B® Barr 1 white pill 1 white pill
or 2 white pills in one dose
Ovrette® Wyeth-Ayerst 20 yellow pills 20 yellow pills
or 40 yellow pills in one dose
Combination Hormone Pills
Alesse® Wyeth-Ayerst 5 pink pills 5 pink pills
Aviane® Duramed 5 orange pills 5 orange pills
Cryselle® Barr 4 white pills 4 white pills
Enpresse® Barr 4 orange pills 4 orange pills
Lessina® Barr 5 pink pills 5 pink pills
Levlen® Berlex 4 light orange pills 4 light orange pills
Levlite® Berlex 5 pink pills 5 pink pills
Levora® Watson 4 white pills 4 white pills
Lo/Ovral® Wyeth-Ayerst 4 white pills 4 white pills
LowOgestrel® Watson 4 white pills 4 white pills
LuteraTM Watson 5 white pills 5 white pills
Nordette® Wyeth-Ayerst 4 light orange pills 4 light orange pills
Ogestrel® Watson 2 white pills 2 white pills
Ovral® Wyeth-Ayerst 2 white pills 2 white pills
Portia® Barr 4 pink pills 4 pink pills
With a regular 28-pill birth control pack, use any of the first 21 pills for emergency contraception. Don't use the last seven pills in a 28-day pack. They are only reminder pills that contain no hormones. With Enpresse, use only the orange ones. With Triphasil or Tri-Levlen, use only the yellow ones. With Trivora, use only the pink ones.
I'm sorry about implying this was only a victory for ladies. It is a victory for dudes too (I mean, one other contraceptive device they don't need to be responsible for ). Seriously though, yay!
if you wanna be a friend of mine
cross the river to the eastside
Nothing absurd. Quite simple really. A couple has a child they are both responsible. The decision to get there is no more your concern that it is a matter of public policy. Are you absurdly suggesting men be legislated veto power over their partners use of this method?
Not at all. Give men a legal method to walk away from a pregnancy with no future obligations or consequences. A right that every woman has.
“One good thing about music,
when it hits you, you feel to pain.
So brutalize me with music.”
~ Bob Marley
He wore a condom, he was responsible. Now what? If we are going to hold him fiscally responsible then he should be given the same type of choices given a woman in the name of equality. obviously he can't have the same choices but it woul dbe very easy to give a man the choice to walk away with no parental rights or obligations including financial responsibilities within the first trimester of preganancy, or even within the first three days of sex. Currently the is no equality or semblence of fairness or balance in the current legislation. It is up to the woman to decide to carry on with a possible preganacy, then up to the woman to decide to carry on with a pregnancy, then up to a woman to decide to name the father on the birth certificate. But a man has to prove he's not the father (no presumption of innocence here) to not pay child support, but a mother does not need to prove paternity to apply to the courts for child support. A man also is not given any automatic parental rights by being a father, where as a woman is given full parental rights just for being female. The system is so far out of kiliter it is ridiculous.
Then he should stick to porno mags where nobody can get pregnant. I am not one to boast about any kind of church but at least they try with planned parenting. As in if you are going to knock boots, you "both" may have a responsibility on your hands for the rest of your mortal lives.
So if some chick told you to have a vasectomy before having sex so she could ensure not getting pregnant that might just fly, eh. Same as you having the choice after filling her with sperm that you may want her to get an abortion. See the problem starts when you insert your penis into the vagina and both of you are idiots. Plain and simple.
Comments
Its also a big fucking responsibility. One someone has someone has alot more control over than headaches and indigestion.
Taking the pill before sex = responsible
Taking the pill after sex = responsible
Having a baby you don't want = irresponsible
isn't that really about right???
Hurray, the Train is back & running. Too bad I only have time for one post.
I agree with hippiemom's post (the one you replied to), but I think I see where you stand as well. I agree, there are many irresponsible folks out there, but, if used properly, this Plan B pill works very similar to traditional birth control pills. Why not just go all the way and say, 'women who take the pill just want to have irresponsible sex'. I don't think that is the norm for most people. It's like the big deal with the HPV vaccine and the folks that say this vaccine will promote irresponsible sex. It's a ridiculous argument. You can't control others and push your morals on them. I'm not trying to be difficult, I'm sure my personal views on sex might be similar to yours, but I have NO business expecting others (other than my kid
Also, to address another point you made, there are articles that have been posted here before that discussed women having trouble getting this pill from pharmacists & hospitals due to 'moral issues'. There was even a case where this was a problem for a rape victim.
but the illusion of knowledge.
~Daniel Boorstin
Only a life lived for others is worth living.
~Albert Einstein
taking a pill before sex = responsible
taking a pill after sex = convienient way of avoiding responsibility.
Sadly our control is often limited by other people's morals.
cross the river to the eastside
I'm very happy for you that you have never made a mistake, that you have never made an irresponsible choice, but few of us are as perfect as you, particularly when we are young. I'm curious though as to WHY responsibility must be taken beforehand? What exactly is the problem with saying "Fuck it, I'll just take a 'day after' pill"? How does this affect you in any way, how is it any of your business? And why should you or anyone else be the arbiter of morality for me?
How is this a cop out?
I disagree. I think this is a bomb. A rational bomb!
cross the river to the eastside
Are you advocating that those "irresponsible people" should be raising children? If you're upset because you believe the use of Plan B indicates a lack of responsibility (I strongly diagree), why would you want them to be responsible for another life? The use of Plan B is beneficial in numerous situations, including when a woman realizes she is at risk for becoming pregnant but is not ready/does not want to be a parent.
It's an honest question, I'm not sure. I do know of some women who have done that, though. If it is, is that irresponsible? Or would it be more responsible for her to say "shit. I forgot. I guess I deserve what's going to happen for the next 18 + years of my life." Or would it be more responsible to take the extra dose - or, say, run to the pharmacy for Plan B?
Perhaps this is an abortion issue for you, I'm not sure. But it's coming across as you having a problem with sex itself.
That's ms. gin, thank you very much.
I'll stop with the bomb references, then
cross the river to the eastside
It doesn't effect me personally. At least not directly. i've already stated this. And i'm not trying to be the "arbiter of morality" for anyone. I've been around here long enough, and you've read enough of my posts that i thought you would have known this by now. If thats what it comes down to, disagreement always being equal to an attempted forced morality, then why even have the train? i'm just stating opinions just like anyone else. Why is that so wrong? Sorry if my rational disagreement offends you.
Also, i've never claimed to be perfect. Far from it actually. i'm actually a real fucking loser. That doesn't exempt me from having opinions.
I consider Plan B to be a responsible method of avoiding an unwanted pregnancy. Obviosly, if you're at this point some irresponsible behvior (no protection against an STD during sex) may have already taken place, but now you are taking responsibility for your actions and dealing with the consequences of that behavior in a quick and discrete manner.
the bad idea or me befallen by it?
Yea, I mean I agree with you..It is just strange to me that b/c we take the pill AFTER sex, then we somehow become irresponsible. It is just crazy to me.
Trust me, this isn't it.
I have no problem with sex itself.
yes and no. plan b is generally a higher dose of the everyday OCP. if she just catches up with her own pills, it could be too late and that dose is not high enough. she would have to take more than 2 (but only using certain brands), so she might not have enough in her pill pack if she had the right kind to begin with. plan b is a lot easier to use because that is only two pills and you don't have to already be using a certain brand of pills.
cross the river to the eastside
rape
forgot a birth control pill
did not bring your diaphram
condom broke
patch feel off
____________ (fill in the blank)
We all know that no contriception is 100% accurate. so when something does go wrong with them...it makes me feel better that I know have a plan B, hell give me a plan C,D, and E! More the better my option.
I agree that this Plan B contraceptive is the best way to go in emergency situations. It's definitely a victory, as you say. But - not that I'm speaking from experience, mind you - I'd say its a victory for everyone; not just the ladies.
It just astounds me that anyone could be opposed to a safe, effective method of birth control that will prevent abortions, not to mention providing peace of mind to millions of women. I was never promiscous, but I can think of a few times when this pill would have taken a load off my mind, to say the least. And if I had been promiscous, so what? It's no one's business but my own.
when it hits you, you feel to pain.
So brutalize me with music.”
~ Bob Marley
That is the opposite of what I was trying to say in a way. Hey, if it is a "mistake" and one party, the one not carrying the "mistake" wants out. They should pay. After all, she didn't blow him, practice yoga and then impregnate herself. Sorry for the graphics, but man, a man has to be responsible too.
Nothing absurd. Quite simple really. A couple has a child they are both responsible. The decision to get there is no more your concern that it is a matter of public policy. Are you absurdly suggesting men be legislated veto power over their partners use of this method?
when it hits you, you feel to pain.
So brutalize me with music.”
~ Bob Marley
Please tell your hypothetical friend that OrthoTriCyc doesn't really cut it.
Okay, sorry. *Just in case* any friends need this infor, here are the pills you can use as EC in place of something like Plan B:
Progestin-only Pills
Plan B® Barr 1 white pill 1 white pill
or 2 white pills in one dose
Ovrette® Wyeth-Ayerst 20 yellow pills 20 yellow pills
or 40 yellow pills in one dose
Combination Hormone Pills
Alesse® Wyeth-Ayerst 5 pink pills 5 pink pills
Aviane® Duramed 5 orange pills 5 orange pills
Cryselle® Barr 4 white pills 4 white pills
Enpresse® Barr 4 orange pills 4 orange pills
Lessina® Barr 5 pink pills 5 pink pills
Levlen® Berlex 4 light orange pills 4 light orange pills
Levlite® Berlex 5 pink pills 5 pink pills
Levora® Watson 4 white pills 4 white pills
Lo/Ovral® Wyeth-Ayerst 4 white pills 4 white pills
LowOgestrel® Watson 4 white pills 4 white pills
LuteraTM Watson 5 white pills 5 white pills
Nordette® Wyeth-Ayerst 4 light orange pills 4 light orange pills
Ogestrel® Watson 2 white pills 2 white pills
Ovral® Wyeth-Ayerst 2 white pills 2 white pills
Portia® Barr 4 pink pills 4 pink pills
Seasonale® Barr 4 pink pills 4 pink pills
SeasoniqueTM Barr 4 blue-green pills 4 blue-green pills
Tri-Levlen® Berlex 4 yellow pills 4 yellow pills
Triphasil® Wyeth-Ayerst 4 yellow pills 4 yellow pills
Trivora® Watson 4 pink pills 4 pink pills
With a regular 28-pill birth control pack, use any of the first 21 pills for emergency contraception. Don't use the last seven pills in a 28-day pack. They are only reminder pills that contain no hormones. With Enpresse, use only the orange ones. With Triphasil or Tri-Levlen, use only the yellow ones. With Trivora, use only the pink ones.
http://www.plannedparenthood.org/pp2/portal/files/portal/medicalinfo/ec/pub-emergency-contraception.xml#1156433187012::2158196329463216465
I'm sorry about implying this was only a victory for ladies. It is a victory for dudes too (I mean, one other contraceptive device they don't need to be responsible for
cross the river to the eastside
when it hits you, you feel to pain.
So brutalize me with music.”
~ Bob Marley
Then he should stick to porno mags where nobody can get pregnant. I am not one to boast about any kind of church but at least they try with planned parenting. As in if you are going to knock boots, you "both" may have a responsibility on your hands for the rest of your mortal lives.
So if some chick told you to have a vasectomy before having sex so she could ensure not getting pregnant that might just fly, eh. Same as you having the choice after filling her with sperm that you may want her to get an abortion. See the problem starts when you insert your penis into the vagina and both of you are idiots. Plain and simple.