Victory for the Ladies (those age 18+)

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  • cornnifer
    cornnifer Posts: 2,130
    callen wrote:
    Sex is natural...its good...for body and soul. Why is it thats its such a big deal....

    Its also a big fucking responsibility. One someone has someone has alot more control over than headaches and indigestion.
    "When all your friends and sedatives mean well but make it worse... better find yourself a place to level out."
  • callen
    callen Posts: 6,388
    humanlight wrote:
    So this is the real problem in here:

    taking a pill before sex = responsible
    taking a pill after sex = irresponsilble

    is that about right?

    Taking the pill before sex = responsible
    Taking the pill after sex = responsible
    Having a baby you don't want = irresponsible

    isn't that really about right???
    10-18-2000 Houston, 04-06-2003 Houston, 6-25-2003 Toronto, 10-8-2004 Kissimmee, 9-4-2005 Calgary, 12-3-05 Sao Paulo, 7-2-2006 Denver, 7-22-06 Gorge, 7-23-2006 Gorge, 9-13-2006 Bern, 6-22-2008 DC, 6-24-2008 MSG, 6-25-2008 MSG
  • baraka
    baraka Posts: 1,268
    cornnifer wrote:
    Understand that i'm not trying to be confrontational, nor am i "dropping bombs" here. I would agree that this is acceptable or perhaps even "a blessing", as you put it, for rape victims. You know damn well, however, that this pill being made available OTC has nothing to do with rape victims. Its ridiculous to even use that in this particular debate. In such circumstances, as i mentioned earlier, it should be easily obtained through several emergency authorities. For free! Any other circumstance is merely a cop out on real responsibility IMO. Mr. Cuervo for fucks sake?! This only illustrates the point i have made forever about bad choices. It has nothing to do with choice. It has everything to do with responsibility. Responsibility that should be taken before hand. You hit the nail on the head when you mentioneed people wanting to be able to have sex whenever and with whoever they want. Problem is they want not to be troubled with PREcaution and responsibility. Sex is not some game. "Fuck it, i'll just take a 'day after' pill". Stupid. Irresponsible.

    Hurray, the Train is back & running. Too bad I only have time for one post.

    I agree with hippiemom's post (the one you replied to), but I think I see where you stand as well. I agree, there are many irresponsible folks out there, but, if used properly, this Plan B pill works very similar to traditional birth control pills. Why not just go all the way and say, 'women who take the pill just want to have irresponsible sex'. I don't think that is the norm for most people. It's like the big deal with the HPV vaccine and the folks that say this vaccine will promote irresponsible sex. It's a ridiculous argument. You can't control others and push your morals on them. I'm not trying to be difficult, I'm sure my personal views on sex might be similar to yours, but I have NO business expecting others (other than my kid ;)) to abide by them. Like hippiemom said, it's nobody's business why people use this pill.

    Also, to address another point you made, there are articles that have been posted here before that discussed women having trouble getting this pill from pharmacists & hospitals due to 'moral issues'. There was even a case where this was a problem for a rape victim.
    The greatest obstacle to discovery is not ignorance,
    but the illusion of knowledge.
    ~Daniel Boorstin

    Only a life lived for others is worth living.
    ~Albert Einstein
  • cornnifer
    cornnifer Posts: 2,130
    humanlight wrote:
    So this is the real problem in here:

    taking a pill before sex = responsible
    taking a pill after sex = irresponsilble

    is that about right?


    taking a pill before sex = responsible
    taking a pill after sex = convienient way of avoiding responsibility.
    "When all your friends and sedatives mean well but make it worse... better find yourself a place to level out."
  • VictoryGin
    VictoryGin Posts: 1,207
    cornnifer wrote:
    Its also a big fucking responsibility. One someone has someone has alot more control over than headaches and indigestion.

    Sadly our control is often limited by other people's morals.
    if you wanna be a friend of mine
    cross the river to the eastside
  • hippiemom
    hippiemom Posts: 3,326
    cornnifer wrote:
    Understand that i'm not trying to be confrontational, nor am i "dropping bombs" here. I would agree that this is acceptable or perhaps even "a blessing", as you put it, for rape victims. You know damn well, however, that this pill being made available OTC has nothing to do with rape victims. Its ridiculous to even use that in this particular debate. In such circumstances, as i mentioned earlier, it should be easily obtained through several emergency authorities. For free! Any other circumstance is merely a cop out on real responsibility IMO. Mr. Cuervo for fucks sake?! This only illustrates the point i have made forever about bad choices. It has nothing to do with choice. It has everything to do with responsibility. Responsibility that should be taken before hand. You hit the nail on the head when you mentioneed people wanting to be able to have sex whenever and with whoever they want. Problem is they want not to be troubled with PREcaution and responsibility. Sex is not some game. "Fuck it, i'll just take a 'day after' pill". Stupid. Irresponsible.
    It certainly does have something to do with rape victims, because this is a drug that's long been offered to them at non-Catholic hospitals, but if you had the misfortune to be transported to a Catholic hospital you were never even told of it's existence. And I imagine this is something that 99% of rape victims, Catholic or not, would want. With over six hundred thousand women being raped each year, you can hardly call this some sort of side issue. That's a lot of women!

    I'm very happy for you that you have never made a mistake, that you have never made an irresponsible choice, but few of us are as perfect as you, particularly when we are young. I'm curious though as to WHY responsibility must be taken beforehand? What exactly is the problem with saying "Fuck it, I'll just take a 'day after' pill"? How does this affect you in any way, how is it any of your business? And why should you or anyone else be the arbiter of morality for me?
    "Nothing in the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity." ~ MLK, 1963
  • callen
    callen Posts: 6,388
    cornnifer wrote:
    Its also a big fucking responsibility. One someone has someone has alot more control over than headaches and indigestion.
    how is it a big responsibility...if two people want to have sex...go at it. It's not some magical, holy thing...its just sex. Yes love can be included and that makes it even better...hence making love....still the responsible thing to do is not create a human if you don't want one.....theres enough of those on this planet already....again..no bombs...just how I see it.
    10-18-2000 Houston, 04-06-2003 Houston, 6-25-2003 Toronto, 10-8-2004 Kissimmee, 9-4-2005 Calgary, 12-3-05 Sao Paulo, 7-2-2006 Denver, 7-22-06 Gorge, 7-23-2006 Gorge, 9-13-2006 Bern, 6-22-2008 DC, 6-24-2008 MSG, 6-25-2008 MSG
  • hippiemom
    hippiemom Posts: 3,326
    cornnifer wrote:
    knowing that, if not used properly, a condom may break, a person may want to consider using said condom IN ADDITION to some other form of birth control such as standard oral contraception, diaphram etc.
    OR a morning after pill, which is indeed another form of contraception.
    cornnifer wrote:
    Cop outs don't work on me.
    How is this a cop out?
    "Nothing in the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity." ~ MLK, 1963
  • VictoryGin
    VictoryGin Posts: 1,207
    callen wrote:
    how is it a big responsibility...if two people want to have sex...go at it. It's not some magical, holy thing...its just sex. Yes love can be included and that makes it even better...hence making love....still the responsible thing to do is not create a human if you don't want one.....theres enough of those on this planet already....again..no bombs...just how I see it.

    I disagree. I think this is a bomb. A rational bomb! :)
    if you wanna be a friend of mine
    cross the river to the eastside
  • comebackwoman
    comebackwoman Posts: 7,271
    cornnifer wrote:
    taking a pill before sex = responsible
    taking a pill after sex = convienient way of avoiding responsibility.


    Are you advocating that those "irresponsible people" should be raising children? If you're upset because you believe the use of Plan B indicates a lack of responsibility (I strongly diagree), why would you want them to be responsible for another life? The use of Plan B is beneficial in numerous situations, including when a woman realizes she is at risk for becoming pregnant but is not ready/does not want to be a parent.
    There's a light when my baby's in my arms :)
  • callen
    callen Posts: 6,388
    VictoryGin wrote:
    I disagree. I think this is a bomb. A rational bomb! :)
    mr or mrs gin...your gonna get me kicked off....
    10-18-2000 Houston, 04-06-2003 Houston, 6-25-2003 Toronto, 10-8-2004 Kissimmee, 9-4-2005 Calgary, 12-3-05 Sao Paulo, 7-2-2006 Denver, 7-22-06 Gorge, 7-23-2006 Gorge, 9-13-2006 Bern, 6-22-2008 DC, 6-24-2008 MSG, 6-25-2008 MSG
  • RainDog
    RainDog Posts: 1,824
    cornnifer wrote:
    taking a pill before sex = responsible
    taking a pill after sex = convienient way of avoiding responsibility.
    It's the same chemical (or hormone), though, isn't it? Say a woman has sex with her long term partner one night, then later when it comes time for her to take her daily pill, she notices that she forgot a day or two. Couldn't she then just take two or three of her pills and get the same effect as Plan B?

    It's an honest question, I'm not sure. I do know of some women who have done that, though. If it is, is that irresponsible? Or would it be more responsible for her to say "shit. I forgot. I guess I deserve what's going to happen for the next 18 + years of my life." Or would it be more responsible to take the extra dose - or, say, run to the pharmacy for Plan B?

    Perhaps this is an abortion issue for you, I'm not sure. But it's coming across as you having a problem with sex itself.
  • VictoryGin
    VictoryGin Posts: 1,207
    callen wrote:
    mr or mrs gin...your gonna get me kicked off....

    That's ms. gin, thank you very much. :D

    I'll stop with the bomb references, then :).
    if you wanna be a friend of mine
    cross the river to the eastside
  • cornnifer
    cornnifer Posts: 2,130
    hippiemom wrote:
    How does this affect you in any way, how is it any of your business? And why should you or anyone else be the arbiter of morality for me?


    It doesn't effect me personally. At least not directly. i've already stated this. And i'm not trying to be the "arbiter of morality" for anyone. I've been around here long enough, and you've read enough of my posts that i thought you would have known this by now. If thats what it comes down to, disagreement always being equal to an attempted forced morality, then why even have the train? i'm just stating opinions just like anyone else. Why is that so wrong? Sorry if my rational disagreement offends you.

    Also, i've never claimed to be perfect. Far from it actually. i'm actually a real fucking loser. That doesn't exempt me from having opinions.
    "When all your friends and sedatives mean well but make it worse... better find yourself a place to level out."
  • MCG
    MCG Posts: 780
    cornnifer wrote:
    taking a pill before sex = responsible
    taking a pill after sex = convienient way of avoiding responsibility.

    I consider Plan B to be a responsible method of avoiding an unwanted pregnancy. Obviosly, if you're at this point some irresponsible behvior (no protection against an STD during sex) may have already taken place, but now you are taking responsibility for your actions and dealing with the consequences of that behavior in a quick and discrete manner.
    Which came first,
    the bad idea or me befallen by it?
  • humanlight
    humanlight Posts: 271
    callen wrote:
    Taking the pill before sex = responsible
    Taking the pill after sex = responsible
    Having a baby you don't want = irresponsible

    isn't that really about right???


    Yea, I mean I agree with you..It is just strange to me that b/c we take the pill AFTER sex, then we somehow become irresponsible. It is just crazy to me.
    "F**K you, I have laundry to do" -ed
  • cornnifer
    cornnifer Posts: 2,130
    RainDog wrote:
    . But it's coming across as you having a problem with sex itself.

    Trust me, this isn't it. :)
    I have no problem with sex itself.
    "When all your friends and sedatives mean well but make it worse... better find yourself a place to level out."
  • VictoryGin
    VictoryGin Posts: 1,207
    RainDog wrote:
    It's the same chemical (or hormone), though, isn't it? Say a woman has sex with her long term partner one night, then later when it comes time for her to take her daily pill, she notices that she forgot a day or two. Couldn't she then just take two or three of her pills and get the same effect as Plan B?

    yes and no. plan b is generally a higher dose of the everyday OCP. if she just catches up with her own pills, it could be too late and that dose is not high enough. she would have to take more than 2 (but only using certain brands), so she might not have enough in her pill pack if she had the right kind to begin with. plan b is a lot easier to use because that is only two pills and you don't have to already be using a certain brand of pills.
    if you wanna be a friend of mine
    cross the river to the eastside
  • humanlight
    humanlight Posts: 271
    I think we should step back and look at what all of us are posting. All of us who are for PLAN B are advocating it as just what it is ment for....a second plan.

    rape
    forgot a birth control pill
    did not bring your diaphram
    condom broke
    patch feel off
    ____________ (fill in the blank)

    We all know that no contriception is 100% accurate. so when something does go wrong with them...it makes me feel better that I know have a plan B, hell give me a plan C,D, and E! More the better my option.
    "F**K you, I have laundry to do" -ed
  • even flow?
    even flow? Posts: 8,066
    A quick comment: How come in this thread and others I have read. It seems to be when the word responsibility comes up it usually is refered to for the woman. It takes two to tango. The guy can bag it up just as easy as asking if she is protected. But the onus seems to be on the person who has to carry the "mistake" for nine months knowing full well that the guy in most cases if she has to go the way of the thread, won't be around. I would say it is up to her.
    You've changed your place in this world!

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