Obama's speech in Berlin

LONGRD

slightofjeff wrote:

A 50-state sweep? I think this Mike Whitney has been hanging out on Willie Nelson's tour bus a bit too long ...

it'll be a miracle for him to win Texas...that's a huge chunk of electoral, I hope you'd vote for him, he'll need it.

mca47

LongRd. wrote:

it'll be a miracle for him to win Texas...that's a huge chunk of electoral, I hope you'd vote for him, he'll need it.

Jesus Christ himself (without the name) couldn't win Texas.
Everyone knows that guy is WAY to liberal.
Could you imagine, Jesus Christ himself coming back and running for office in Texas?!?!?! He comes back as Abdul Gonzalez...preaches the bible and still loses by 35 points!
Sorry guys, but Jesus was a liberal! In modern terms, he'd be even more of a freak than Nader!

Jesus '08!

LONGRD

mca47 wrote:

Jesus Christ himself (without the name) couldn't win Texas.
Everyone knows that guy is WAY to liberal.
Could you imagine, Jesus Christ himself coming back and running for office in Texas?!?!?! He comes back as Abdul Gonzalez...preaches the bible and still loses by 35 points!
Sorry guys, but Jesus was a liberal! In modern terms, he'd be even more of a freak than Nader!

Jesus '08!

wouldn't he be independent?

einatshaul

LongRd. wrote:

The McCain has been attacking his international credentials for months now. Plus, it's part of Obama's campaign, he's been advocating for better relationship between the U.S. and Europe, and the rest of the world for that matter since the Bush camp fucked everything up.

No leadership skills you say?....People still voted for Bush and has he ever demonstrate any leadership skills? Not really, other than telling us more lies and lies.

Maybe if McCain showed some personality instead of just attacking and attacking his opposition maybe I'll listen to him but he doesn't, all he does attack Obama. Obama has demonstrated his "presidential" quality by being a great speaker- isn't that what most presidents do best anyway?

Seriously, they have a shitload of staff team that does most of the "real" work anyhow.

Unless your leaders are vain and stupid enough not to consult their staff and come up with idiotic policeis of their own ingenious mind!

Smellyman2

This thread confirms my suspicions that conservatives are retarded.

angelm20

Thecure wrote:

i just love when people say something but don't give examples. i also think it is sad when we believe that one person is the only hope. is Obama luke skywaker or something? what makes you think that other countries won't work with McCain? and also what is Obama showing that he is able to do anthing? is it becuase he gets a lot of people to come out for a event?

OK EXAMPLES: McCain insisted that the Anbar Awakening was caused by the "surge" and even dismissively said " thats just a matter of history"
Heres the thing~ the Anbar Awakening happened in 2006, months before the troop escalation was ever announced.

McCain recently called Social Security a "disgrace" and lied about his past support for privatizing it.
the
6 times he mentioned his policy on Czechoslovakia~the country hasn't existed for over 5 years

McCain consisitently makes foreign policy mistakes~he talks about the "Iraq-Palistan border" when they do not share a border! He as well has confused "Somalia with Sudan"

Then at least 4 times, McCain said "Iran is helping Al Qaeda in Iraq"~BUT Iran is Shitte and Al Qaeda is Sunni. They are fighting each other!

He doesn't even know what/where hes talking about~ so yes thats a concern and a bit scary if you ask me.

patrickredeyes

g under p wrote:

Obama Dazzles Old Europe while McCain cries "No Mas"!

By Mike Whitney

Barak Obama proved yesterday why November's presidential election will end in a 50-state sweep. John McCain has no chance. It's like George Bush climbing into the ring with Mike Tyson; one thundering left hook and the Crawford Caligula would be sprawled across the canvas in a pool of his own blood. "No mas"! The same fate awaits the crabby senator from Arizona.

http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article20363.htm

Peace

What the heck drugs are you on?

nobody

angelm19 wrote:

6 times he mentioned his policy on Czechoslovakia~the country hasn't existed for over 5 years

just a minor point, but I'm curious...
do you by any chance mean Yugoslavia??...cause czechoslovakia has split into the czech republic and Slovakia in 1993, and I couldn't imagine any policy McCain would mention in this regard;)

m.

LikeAnOcean

slightofjeff wrote:

Yeah, he can. But sometimes I think he forgets he's not president yet. And I'm half surprised he didn't say, "I am a donut," since he loves to evoke JFK so much.

At any rate, I don't have a huge problem with this trip. It just seems kind of strange to me.

"Hey Germany, here's all the stuff I'm gonna do when I'm elected. Of course, if I lose the election, I'm basically just wasting your time! Yay!"

President or not, he's building a personal relationship with people around the world. Any smart business man who plans on starting a business, success or failure, starts off by creating a base.

Even if he loses the election, he still is an American communicating with the people of the world.. And he'll still be in politics..

meistereder

nobody wrote:

just a minor point, but I'm curious...
do you by any chance mean Yugoslavia??...cause czechoslovakia has split into the czech republic and Slovakia in 1993, and I couldn't imagine any policy McCain would mention in this regard;)

m.

No, the poster was correct. That was the point. McCain has said
"Czechoslovakia" a few times in the past weeks. I guess in his mind, it's the same as the Czech Republic. Just like he referred to the German chancellor as from Russia. Same difference to him, I guess.

Anyway, to make a broad point here to those who don't think the US should seek approval of the Europeans, it's time to join the 21st Century. We can't and SHOULDN'T do these things alone. Like it or not, there is a global economy, and a global security threat. If you want to continue to isolate America from the rest of the world, vote for McCain, but expect the consequences.

nobody

meistereder wrote:

No, the poster was correct. That was the point. McCain has said
"Czechoslovakia" a few times in the past weeks. I guess in his mind, it's the same as the Czech Republic. Just like he referred to the German chancellor as from Russia. Same difference to him, I guess.

Anyway, to make a broad point here to those who don't think the US should seek approval of the Europeans, it's time to join the 21st Century. We can't and SHOULDN'T do these things alone. Like it or not, there is a global economy, and a global security threat. If you want to continue to isolate America from the rest of the world, vote for McCain, but expect the consequences.

oh, I see...it must be about the missile station then, right?
I was just puzzled cause the poster wrote "over 5 years", while it's gone for 15 years;)

I agree...and I don't see the threat of a one world government in a concerted action of the us and the rest of the world against common problems...

m.

meistereder

nobody wrote:

oh, I see...it must be about the missile station then, right?
I was just puzzled cause the poster wrote "over 5 years", while it's gone for 15 years;)

I agree...and I don't see the threat of a one world government in a concerted action of the us and the rest of the world against common problems...

m.

It's the only way, in my opinion. The days of trying to run several continents on our own are long gone. Sure, it means we have to give up some arrogance and cooperate. It means we have to accept the fact, finally, that we need cooperation from others as well. We helped create this global economy and now we have to play in it.

fuck

angelm19 wrote:

OK EXAMPLES: McCain insisted that the Anbar Awakening was caused by the "surge" and even dismissively said " thats just a matter of history"
Heres the thing~ the Anbar Awakening happened in 2006, months before the troop escalation was ever announced.

McCain recently called Social Security a "disgrace" and lied about his past support for privatizing it.
the
6 times he mentioned his policy on Czechoslovakia~the country hasn't existed for over 5 years

McCain consisitently makes foreign policy mistakes~he talks about the "Iraq-Palistan border" when they do not share a border! He as well has confused "Somalia with Sudan"

Then at least 4 times, McCain said "Iran is helping Al Qaeda in Iraq"~BUT Iran is Shitte and Al Qaeda is Sunni. They are fighting each other!

He doesn't even know what/where hes talking about~ so yes thats a concern and a bit scary if you ask me.

ok, McCain is bad. We all know that. why is Obama GOOD though? Does McCain being terrible make Obama seem good?

It's like when ugly girls walk next to even uglier girls to make themselves look prettier.

angelm20

_outlaw wrote:

ok, McCain is bad. We all know that. why is Obama GOOD though? Does McCain being terrible make Obama seem good?

It's like when ugly girls walk next to even uglier girls to make themselves look prettier.

Your funny~though I thought it was just that birds of feather flock together or something like that? I did not realize that its being done on purpose...dang you're teachin me so much in here~thanks

But ~ why I think Obama is GOOD ~ Have you read his blueprint for change? It's exactly what I believe we need. I have faith that he is just the one who can make it happen with his cool calm bipartisan, biracial, global community attitude. I beleive he really cares about our world and our country. I have hope. I trust no one really, but I feel he will represent we the people better then McCain. His past history as well supports that.

I just honestly feel that I have 2 chioces. McCain reminds me too much of Bush. You can read into his eyes that he is lieing and has alternative motives. He is a puppet.

How do you like how the Republicans threw us a little bone by lowering the gas prices a wee bit and stepping in to assist the banks loans....they are feeling the heat and thinking we won't realize what they are really up to. But hey as long as it helps a few out thats great. It just shows ya how much control they have on the prices. It sickens me.

BamaPJFan

slightofjeff wrote:

A 50-state sweep? I think this Mike Whitney has been hanging out on Willie Nelson's tour bus a bit too long ...

That's a foolish statement/prediction. This Whitney fella has apparently lost his mind. My two home states of Alabama and Mississippi will not vote for Obama (the black vote will go to Obama, but AL and MS are still republican states). Heck, the entire South (with the possible exception of Florida) will vote for McCain. These Kool Aid drinkers who think that Obama will blow McCain away are very misguided.

fuck

angelm19 wrote:

But ~ why I think Obama is GOOD ~ Have you read his blueprint for change? It's exactly what I believe we need. I have faith that he is just the one who can make it happen with his cool calm bipartisan, biracial, global community attitude. I beleive he really cares about our world and our country. I have hope. I trust no one really, but I feel he will represent we the people better then McCain. His past history as well supports that.

Do you know what his past history is? on the contrary, his past history contradicts everything he's saying.

the PATRIOT ACT, the one we've come to all know and hate, was voted for by Obama... TWICE.

FISA was voted for by Obama...

Condolezza Rice was approved by Obama...

Obama also continuously votes to give Bush more money for Iraq...

Obama is willing to go even a step further on Israel/Palestine than ANY OTHER PRESIDENT BEFORE, including BUSH. He's willing to give all of Jerusalem to Israel, and has not talked about the occupation at all.

Obama is NOT AGAINST military action on the "threat" he calls, Iran.

Obama's plan for Iraq so far is also completely vague and utter garbage.

Obama is FOR the death penalty.

I also read somewhere recently that he's against gay marriage.

I just honestly feel that I have 2 chioces. McCain reminds me too much of Bush. You can read into his eyes that he is lieing and has alternative motives. He is a puppet.

don't worry, we all know how bad McCain is. what I'm trying to say is don't feel like you have 2 choices. the point of a democracy is not choose the lesser evil, but to choose who you feel accurately represents your views and would make a good president. If you think Obama actually represents your views, and you're not voting for him just because you're afraid of McCain, that is one thing. but to vote for someone who doesn't represent you as well as others is not something we want to keep doing in this country. If you want real CHANGE, vote for who you really want.

And if you really want Obama, well, like I stated above, he's not so different after all.

angelm20

_outlaw wrote:

don't worry, we all know how bad McCain is. what I'm trying to say is don't feel like you have 2 choices. the point of a democracy is not choose the lesser evil, but to choose who you feel accurately represents your views and would make a good president. If you think Obama actually represents your views, and you're not voting for him just because you're afraid of McCain, that is one thing. but to vote for someone who doesn't represent you as well as others is not something we want to keep doing in this country. If you want real CHANGE, vote for who you really want.

And if you really want Obama, well, like I stated above, he's not so different after all.

Dude~ help~ this sucks so much! I don't like either though to vote for anyone other then one of these 2 will just waste my vote~
I have done that too many times before and regreted it very much.
I can NOT stand McCain. You brought up some points I really was not aware of. I guess I need to research a little more to get back with you.Thanks~ take care~peace

RainDog

angelm19 wrote:

Dude~ help~ this sucks so much! I don't like either though to vote for anyone other then one of these 2 will just waste my vote~
I have done that too many times before and regreted it very much.
I can NOT stand McCain. You brought up some points I really was not aware of. I guess I need to research a little more to get back with you.Thanks~ take care~peace

You need to be careful getting your information from some people. While what was said above is technically correct in some cases (but not all), it removes all sense of nuance and bipartisanship (something Obama stresses a lot). For example, yes he voted for the Patriot Act, but only after the sunset provisions were added (a compromise - something that's necessary for a legislature like the Senate to work). He's also voted for habeas corpus for Guantanamo detainees, voted to require the CIA to report on detainees and interrogation methods, and supports the outright closing of Guantanamo. Also, his plan to get us out of Iraq isn't "vague and utter garbage," but is a rather detailed plan to have all combat troops out in 16 months - and has been consistant throughout his Senate career. And in regards to "war with Iran" (which is ridiculous) NO president, no matter who they are, will ever say that millitary options are "off the table." And, while not completely against it, he's also done more to reform the death penalty in Illinois than anyone has in years (and got lots of props from anti-death penalty groups).

For a less partisan, more objective view of Obama's record, look here:
http://www.ontheissues.org/Barack_Obama.htm

fuck

RainDog wrote:

You need to be careful getting your information from some people.

including yourself.

While what was said above is technically correct in some cases (but not all)

what was it not correct in?

it removes all sense of nuance and bipartisanship (something Obama stresses a lot). For example, yes he voted for the Patriot Act, but only after the sunset provisions were added (a compromise - something that's necessary for a legislature like the Senate to work).

when it's still unconstitutional, you don't vote for it. I don't care how much compromise he did, why should he vote for it if he still doesn't agree with it? you can't defend that. do you support the PATRIOT ACT now in its current state?

He's also voted for habeas corpus for Guantanamo detainees, voted to require the CIA to report on detainees and interrogation methods, and supports the outright closing of Guantanamo.

that's great... but just because you have some good policies doesn't mean you should ignore the other terrible ones.

Also, his plan to get us out of Iraq isn't "vague and utter garbage," but is a rather detailed plan to have all combat troops out in 16 months - and has been consistant throughout his Senate career.

consistency means shit. this "detailed" plan (which i've never seen) does not include Blackwater and other mercenary armies to withdraw, does not include paying reparations to the Iraqi people, and does not include any plans to legitimize its government...

And in regards to "war with Iran" (which is ridiculous) NO president, no matter who they are, will ever say that millitary options are "off the table."

writing "war with Iran" in quotes is pretty strange seeing as how I never said "war with Iran", I said he's not taking military options off the table, something very similar to Mr. Bush. He's also pushing for tougher sanctions on Iran while preaching diplomatic talks. tell me, does it make sense to have diplomatic talks with a nation that you're currently trying to screw economically?

not to mention the fact that he called Iran's nuclear program "illegal" (when it's not), and that he referred to them as a "threat" (when they're not)...

And, while not completely against it, he's also done more to reform the death penalty in Illinois than anyone has in years (and got lots of props from anti-death penalty groups).

"more than anyone has in years"... again, lesser evil? he's not against it, and that's what matters.

For a less partisan, more objective view of Obama's record, look here:
http://www.ontheissues.org/Barack_Obama.htm

hmm...
seeing as how you ignored what I said about his stance on Israel/Palestine:

Barack Obama wrote:

Palestinian people suffer-but from not recognizing Israel."

what the fuck

Barack Obama wrote:

FactCheck: Palestinian suffering from stalled peace effort.

Not from the Israeli blockade on Gaza? not from the inhumane Israeli treatment of Palestinians?

Barack Obama wrote:

Supports Israel's self-defense

"self-defense"... good one.
And his AIPAC speech was worse than one Bush ever gave.

RainDog

_outlaw wrote:

including yourself.

Of course not. Most of what's debated here is a matter of opinion - and opinions are not strictly "right or wrong."

_outlaw wrote:

what was it not correct in?

To me, it was the "vague and utter garbage" remark. Opinion, not fact.

_outlaw wrote:

when it's still unconstitutional, you don't vote for it. I don't care how much compromise he did, why should he vote for it if he still doesn't agree with it? you can't defend that. do you support the PATRIOT ACT now in its current state?

No I don't; but thankfully there are sunset provisions in it - due in part to people like Obama. I also understand why he went the way he did on that. This kind of leads to my next answer.....

_outlaw wrote:

that's great... but just because you have some good policies doesn't mean you should ignore the other terrible ones.

Just because you have some terrible policies, doesn't mean you should ignore the other good ones. No one will ever fit into anyone else's political mold. Humans are not that simple.

_outlaw wrote:

consistency means shit. this "detailed" plan (which i've never seen) does not include Blackwater and other mercenary armies to withdraw, does not include paying reparations to the Iraqi people, and does not include any plans to legitimize its government...

If you've never seen the plan, how do you know what's in it? He said he isn't going to ban (i.e. outlaw) private security firms like Blackwater. It's use will be under presidential discretion. I haven't heard anything about reparations, but my guess is neither he nor McCain, nor Nader (snicker) will, as president, go around Iraq handing out checks to it's citizens. And, if he doesn't have any plans to legitimize the Iraqi government, what the hell was he doing meeting with al Maliki - you know, the Iraqi Prime Minister who actually agrees with Obama's Iraq plan?

_outlaw wrote:

writing "war with Iran" in quotes is pretty strange seeing as how I never said "war with Iran", I said he's not taking military options off the table, something very similar to Mr. Bush. He's also pushing for tougher sanctions on Iran while preaching diplomatic talks. tell me, does it make sense to have diplomatic talks with a nation that you're currently trying to screw economically?

The quotes were to signify the overall opinion of many people on this board that Obama wants nothing more than to blow the shit out of Tehran. Think Dr. Evil quoting the word "Laser." No, he's not taking millitary options off the table - no president would. And, yes, it makes sense to have diplomatic talks. Sanctions are part of diplomacy, like it or not. When you negotiate, you don't just take "no" for an answer.

_outlaw wrote:

not to mention the fact that he called Iran's nuclear program "illegal" (when it's not), and that he referred to them as a "threat" (when they're not)...

It's "illegal" (a funny word in international relations, if you ask me) for Iran to produce nuclear weapons. A peaceful nuclear program requires international supervision, I believe. I'm pretty sure Iran doesn't like that idea. And, Obama has said that Iran is not a threat to our shores; however, they could be a threat to Isreal. Ahmadinejad has said as much.

_outlaw wrote:

"more than anyone has in years"... again, lesser evil? he's not against it, and that's what matters.

I'd say more than that matters. All or nothing gets you nothing almost every time. Obama from 2004:
"I think that the death penalty is appropriate in certain circumstances. There are especially heinous crimes: terrorism, the harm of children. Obviously, we've had some problems in this state in the application of the death penalty. That's why a moratorium was put in place and that's why I was so proud to be one of the leaders in overhauling a death penalty system that was broken. We became the first in the nation requiring the video taping of capital interrogations and confessions. We have to have this ultimate sanction in certain circumstances where the whole community says "this is beyond the pale."

Works for me - especially coming from a presidential candidate.

_outlaw wrote:

hmm...
seeing as how you ignored what I said about his stance on Israel/Palestine:

what the fuck

Not from the Israeli blockade on Gaza? not from the inhumane Israeli treatment of Palestinians?

"self-defense"... good one.
And his AIPAC speech was worse than one Bush ever gave.

I didn't ignore what you said about Israel/Palestine - I simply chose not to answer it. My opinion is that both sides are to blame for their own problems. Any brokered peace between the two sides will require working with both sides. This includes the "much reviled" Isreal - who, like it or not, is one of our allies. A lot of people seem to forget that, while at the same time condemn Bush for ignoring the "international community", i.e. our "other allies." I guess everyone has their favorite allies.