by inflating the number to get across a point and inflate the sadness of war is immature
The Pentagon doesn't keep track, it's chaos over there...there's really no way of telling. 70,000 or 600,000....that's a whole lot of needless loss of innocent life either way and it makes me fucking sick! Remember how upset we were over 3,000?
If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde
I think posters are playing at joy in this, I wouldn't take it at face value in the posts you see. The primitive "moral majority" still has a voice, with or without Falwell, and most of us know that. There is no celebrating for ignorance. Ignorance isn't dead.
I think it's disgusting and classless - whether it's Falwell, Saddam, or whomever.
The only people we should try to get even with...
...are those who've helped us.
Right 'round the corner could be bigger than ourselves.
The Pentagon doesn't keep track, it's chaos over there...there's really no way of telling. 70,000 or 600,000....that's a whole lot of needless loss of inocent life either way and it makes me fucking sick! Remember how upset we were over 3,000?
booky, thats not a penetgon website I posted. and I agree, there is no solid proven way to know. but the site I posted has an extensive database of names and documented incidents. which to the best of that data, its near 70k.
here's what I'm saying.
comprehensive database = 70,000, dead
survey of 1500 homes - 650,000 dead.
many here use that 650 number as fact and to show how many people bush has killed.
and i'm very upset so many innocent iraqis have died. but thats not the point.
booky, thats not a penetgon website I posted. and I agree, there is no solid proven way to know. but the site I posted has an extensive database of names and documented incidents. which to the best of that data, its near 70k.
here's what I'm saying.
comprehensive database = 70,000, dead
survey of 1500 homes - 650,000 dead.
many here use that 650 number as fact and to show how many people bush has killed.
and i'm very upset so many innocent iraqis have died. but thats not the point.
I didn't say it was.
And if you're upset about the Iraqis then trying mentioning that instead of only choosing to post to nitpick about the number. The thing thats upseting you should be much more important.
If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde
And if you're upset about the Iraqis then trying mentioning that instead of only choosing to post to nitpick about the number. The thing thats upseting you should be much more important.
just tryin to keep it real thats all. a possible difference of more then 580,000 dead people is more then nit picking.
The Pentagon doesn't keep track, it's chaos over there...there's really no way of telling. 70,000 or 600,000....that's a whole lot of needless loss of innocent life either way and it makes me fucking sick! Remember how upset we were over 3,000?
everyone of the 70,000 to 600,000 have families..and they're all pissed at us....
much more then a survey of 1500 homes. which is where the 650 number comes from
look a little further into that database you are using. it counts only deaths reported by english speaking media. thats it. nothing more. so it is obviously well below the actual number
"IBC is not an "estimate" of total civilian deaths based on projections or other forms of extrapolation. It is a compilation of documented deaths, as reported by English-language media worldwide."
the lancet survey takes into account all deaths that would not have occured if the war had not happened, not just violent deaths. the IBC documents only actual deaths caused by violence (again, only the ones reported by english speaking media). and, the lancet methodolgy has been used and approved by the US government, and it is currently financially supporting and teaching the same methodology.
"study co-author Les Roberts defended the methodology by noting that the method is the standard used in poor countries, that the same method was used by the US government following wars in Kosovo and Afghanistan, and that the US government's Smart Initiative program is spending millions of dollars per year teaching NGOs and UN workers how to use the same cluster method for estimating mortality rates."
not to mention
"The UK government, too, rejected the researchers' conclusions. In doing so, it went against the advice of the Ministry of Defence's Chief Scientific Adviser, Sir Roy Anderson, who had called the study "robust" and its methods "close to best practice" in an internal memo, dated 13 October, 2006."
now you can go back and forth and find strenghts and weaknesses in either study. but you cannot deny the weakness of counting only reported deaths in the english media? thats just obviously going to be very low. not to mention the lancet has a variable #, 650,000 is the number they have deemed as most probable, but the # they list was between about 400,000 and 900,000. so best case is 400 and worst case is 900. pretty sad debate we are having, but the dead at least deserved to be recognized.
I thought it would be nice to kickoff the Thursday night partying with a singalong to the demise of Falwell from Kool and the Gang --->
========================================
Ya Hooo, It's a celebration,
Ya Hooo, It's a celebration
Celebrate good times, come on,
Celebrate good times, come on,
There's a party goin on right here,
A celebration, to last throughout the years,
So bring your good times, and your laughter too,
We gonna celebrate your party with you, come on now
Celebration...Let's all celebrate and have a good time.
Celebration...We gonna celebrate and have a good time.
It's time to come together, it's up to you, what's your pleasure?
Everyone around the world come on!
Ya hoo..It a Celebration, Ya Hoo...,
Celebrate good times, come on, come on and celebrate
Celebrate good times, come on, and everything's gonna be alright.
We're gonna have a good time tonight, let's celebrate, it's alright
We're gonna have a good time tonight, let's celebrate, it's alright
(Celebration) We're gonna have a good time tonight, let's celebrate, it's alright
(Celebration) We're gonna have a good time tonight, let's celebrate, it's alright
Ya Hooo, Ya Hooo
Celebrate good times come on, Let's celebrate, come on now
Celebrate good times come on, Let's celebrate, come on and celebrate
Celebrate good times come on, Let's celebrate, come on now
Celebrate good times come on, Let's celebrate, come on and celebrate
War is Peace
Freedom is Slavery
Ignorance is Strength
I thought it would be nice to kickoff the Thursday night partying with a singalong to the demise of Falwell from Kool and the Gang --->
========================================
Ya Hooo, It's a celebration,
Ya Hooo, It's a celebration
Celebrate good times, come on,
Celebrate good times, come on,
There's a party goin on right here,
A celebration, to last throughout the years,
So bring your good times, and your laughter too,
We gonna celebrate your party with you, come on now
Celebration...Let's all celebrate and have a good time.
Celebration...We gonna celebrate and have a good time.
It's time to come together, it's up to you, what's your pleasure?
Everyone around the world come on!
Ya hoo..It a Celebration, Ya Hoo...,
Celebrate good times, come on, come on and celebrate
Celebrate good times, come on, and everything's gonna be alright.
We're gonna have a good time tonight, let's celebrate, it's alright
We're gonna have a good time tonight, let's celebrate, it's alright
(Celebration) We're gonna have a good time tonight, let's celebrate, it's alright
(Celebration) We're gonna have a good time tonight, let's celebrate, it's alright
Ya Hooo, Ya Hooo
Celebrate good times come on, Let's celebrate, come on now
Celebrate good times come on, Let's celebrate, come on and celebrate
Celebrate good times come on, Let's celebrate, come on now
Celebrate good times come on, Let's celebrate, come on and celebrate
i think you are clearly out of line. you may disagree. you may have your opinions. but the man was a human, he did have a family, and he did have friends. show some class dude.
since it's a party I thought I'd post this from Natalie Davis
Remembering Jerry Falwell
Submitted by NDavis on May 15, 2007 - 3:30pm. :: Off-topic discussions
The Rev. Jerry Falwell -- longtime foe of GLBT people, women, and those who thirst for justice and equality -- died today.
When I heard the breaking news, my reaction shocked me. I wept.
Understand, there is a personal connection: I met, though wouldn't claim to know, the man. (Read about it here.) Saw him preach from the pulpit of his magnificent Thomas Road Baptist Church in Lynchburg, VA. Talked with him. Found him funny, interestingly enough. I never approved of his positions, his statements, his actions, what he did to the American political landscape. I am well aware of the human cost much of his ministry caused -- and told him so to his face. We were able to disagree without being disagreeable, which I see as a good thing.
This does not change the fact that the right-wing televangelist and Moral Majority founder disappointed me on a human level numerous times. Neither do his unchristian activities erase the fact that his ministry has done good as well. A fair person must note that too.
And now, suddenly, he's dead. How could anyone with a heart not react with sadness on some level?
In various places on the net, I've been reading people's reactions to the news. Won't link to them -- I don't want to call anyone out or make them feel bad or attract people to come and bash me for daring to feel sadness.
So I'll just say this and then go sit quietly for a while: Yeah, Jerry Falwell did some twisted, downright evil things in the name of Jesus. Enormously hideous and horrible things. He was virulently homophobic, a onetime (?) segregationist, a proponent of the traditional man-in-charge relationship model, and more. All true. All terrible. This should not, must not be forgotten.
Still, that's no justification for dancing on his grave. ANY death is a diminishment of the human family. We debase ourselves when we engage in hideous schadenfreude, and I'm seeing way too much of it today. It's devastating. And it's wrong.
Why are humans so damned cruel?
Rest in peace, Rev. Falwell. May your successor achieve more success than you did in embracing all of God's children. May those you harmed, if they still live, find healing and justice. And may the rest of us remember this:
i think you are clearly out of line. you may disagree. you may have your opinions. but the man was a human, he did have a family, and he did have friends. show some class dude.
If his family and friends are PJ fans and visit this site then I'm shocked. Since that is not the case then screw Falwell. Being nice when these people die is why there continues to be assholes like him taking his place.
War is Peace
Freedom is Slavery
Ignorance is Strength
since it's a party I thought I'd post this from Natalie Davis
Remembering Jerry Falwell
Submitted by NDavis on May 15, 2007 - 3:30pm. :: Off-topic discussions
The Rev. Jerry Falwell -- longtime foe of GLBT people, women, and those who thirst for justice and equality -- died today.
When I heard the breaking news, my reaction shocked me. I wept.
Understand, there is a personal connection: I met, though wouldn't claim to know, the man. (Read about it here.) Saw him preach from the pulpit of his magnificent Thomas Road Baptist Church in Lynchburg, VA. Talked with him. Found him funny, interestingly enough. I never approved of his positions, his statements, his actions, what he did to the American political landscape. I am well aware of the human cost much of his ministry caused -- and told him so to his face. We were able to disagree without being disagreeable, which I see as a good thing.
This does not change the fact that the right-wing televangelist and Moral Majority founder disappointed me on a human level numerous times. Neither do his unchristian activities erase the fact that his ministry has done good as well. A fair person must note that too.
And now, suddenly, he's dead. How could anyone with a heart not react with sadness on some level?
In various places on the net, I've been reading people's reactions to the news. Won't link to them -- I don't want to call anyone out or make them feel bad or attract people to come and bash me for daring to feel sadness.
So I'll just say this and then go sit quietly for a while: Yeah, Jerry Falwell did some twisted, downright evil things in the name of Jesus. Enormously hideous and horrible things. He was virulently homophobic, a onetime (?) segregationist, a proponent of the traditional man-in-charge relationship model, and more. All true. All terrible. This should not, must not be forgotten.
Still, that's no justification for dancing on his grave. ANY death is a diminishment of the human family. We debase ourselves when we engage in hideous schadenfreude, and I'm seeing way too much of it today. It's devastating. And it's wrong.
Why are humans so damned cruel?
Rest in peace, Rev. Falwell. May your successor achieve more success than you did in embracing all of God's children. May those you harmed, if they still live, find healing and justice. And may the rest of us remember this:
well considering she's offering respect even when she didn't like much of what the man stood for, which it appears is definitely a minority view of those on the left, I think it's quite a strong response. but as is clear, it doesn't matter.
make sure the fortune that you seek...is the fortune that you need
i think you are clearly out of line. you may disagree. you may have your opinions. but the man was a human, he did have a family, and he did have friends. show some class dude.
hands, we usually disagree or at least spar back and forth but I completely agree with you here.
jerry falwell didnt kill hundreds of thousands of people like your buddy saddam
I'm not sure Sadaam killed anyone with his own hands, although he certainly instigated the deaths of many. Falwell may also have indirectly done the same through his hate mongering.
Look, if I met a member of Falwell's family I'd show due respect. But this is a rock bands message board, and so I will say what I think without there being a danger of upsetting any of his close kin.
I like to see a bunch of gay leather clad bikers throw their own mock Falwell funeral ceremony/party by making a Falwell pinata and thrashing it apart with huge dildos...
I'm not decided yet on what falls out of him when he breaks open...
Progress is not made by everyone joining some new fad,
and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
over specific principles, goals, and policies.
I like to see a bunch of gay leather clad bikers throw their own mock Falwell funeral ceremony/party by making a Falwell pinata and thrashing it apart with huge dildos...
I'm not decided yet on what falls out of him when he breaks open...
I'll email this suggestion to Sacha Cohen for his next movie...
Progress is not made by everyone joining some new fad,
and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
over specific principles, goals, and policies.
I like to see a bunch of gay leather clad bikers throw their own mock Falwell funeral ceremony/party by making a Falwell pinata and thrashing it apart with huge dildos...
I'm not decided yet on what falls out of him when he breaks open...
I needed a good laugh ! Good one !
War is Peace
Freedom is Slavery
Ignorance is Strength
Comments
and it was you calling me immature? get a life dude
The Pentagon doesn't keep track, it's chaos over there...there's really no way of telling. 70,000 or 600,000....that's a whole lot of needless loss of innocent life either way and it makes me fucking sick! Remember how upset we were over 3,000?
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde
I think it's disgusting and classless - whether it's Falwell, Saddam, or whomever.
...are those who've helped us.
Right 'round the corner could be bigger than ourselves.
And you will understand, eventually.
I think you know how to understand.
all posts by ©gue_barium are protected under US copyright law and are not to be reproduced, exchanged or sold
except by express written permission of ©gue_barium, the author.
I thought I made a couple nice posts in eulogy. Maybe if you checked those, you might see what I see, and the blessings we all share.
all posts by ©gue_barium are protected under US copyright law and are not to be reproduced, exchanged or sold
except by express written permission of ©gue_barium, the author.
booky, thats not a penetgon website I posted. and I agree, there is no solid proven way to know. but the site I posted has an extensive database of names and documented incidents. which to the best of that data, its near 70k.
here's what I'm saying.
comprehensive database = 70,000, dead
survey of 1500 homes - 650,000 dead.
many here use that 650 number as fact and to show how many people bush has killed.
and i'm very upset so many innocent iraqis have died. but thats not the point.
I love you, man.
all posts by ©gue_barium are protected under US copyright law and are not to be reproduced, exchanged or sold
except by express written permission of ©gue_barium, the author.
I love you too.
I didn't say it was.
And if you're upset about the Iraqis then trying mentioning that instead of only choosing to post to nitpick about the number. The thing thats upseting you should be much more important.
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde
just tryin to keep it real thats all. a possible difference of more then 580,000 dead people is more then nit picking.
everyone of the 70,000 to 600,000 have families..and they're all pissed at us....
look a little further into that database you are using. it counts only deaths reported by english speaking media. thats it. nothing more. so it is obviously well below the actual number
"IBC is not an "estimate" of total civilian deaths based on projections or other forms of extrapolation. It is a compilation of documented deaths, as reported by English-language media worldwide."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iraq_Body_Count
the lancet survey takes into account all deaths that would not have occured if the war had not happened, not just violent deaths. the IBC documents only actual deaths caused by violence (again, only the ones reported by english speaking media). and, the lancet methodolgy has been used and approved by the US government, and it is currently financially supporting and teaching the same methodology.
"study co-author Les Roberts defended the methodology by noting that the method is the standard used in poor countries, that the same method was used by the US government following wars in Kosovo and Afghanistan, and that the US government's Smart Initiative program is spending millions of dollars per year teaching NGOs and UN workers how to use the same cluster method for estimating mortality rates."
not to mention
"The UK government, too, rejected the researchers' conclusions. In doing so, it went against the advice of the Ministry of Defence's Chief Scientific Adviser, Sir Roy Anderson, who had called the study "robust" and its methods "close to best practice" in an internal memo, dated 13 October, 2006."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lancet_survey_of_mortality_after_the_2003_invasion_of_Iraq:a_cross-sectional_cluster_sample_survey
now you can go back and forth and find strenghts and weaknesses in either study. but you cannot deny the weakness of counting only reported deaths in the english media? thats just obviously going to be very low. not to mention the lancet has a variable #, 650,000 is the number they have deemed as most probable, but the # they list was between about 400,000 and 900,000. so best case is 400 and worst case is 900. pretty sad debate we are having, but the dead at least deserved to be recognized.
========================================
Ya Hooo, It's a celebration,
Ya Hooo, It's a celebration
Celebrate good times, come on,
Celebrate good times, come on,
There's a party goin on right here,
A celebration, to last throughout the years,
So bring your good times, and your laughter too,
We gonna celebrate your party with you, come on now
Celebration...Let's all celebrate and have a good time.
Celebration...We gonna celebrate and have a good time.
It's time to come together, it's up to you, what's your pleasure?
Everyone around the world come on!
Ya hoo..It a Celebration, Ya Hoo...,
Celebrate good times, come on, come on and celebrate
Celebrate good times, come on, and everything's gonna be alright.
We're gonna have a good time tonight, let's celebrate, it's alright
We're gonna have a good time tonight, let's celebrate, it's alright
(Celebration) We're gonna have a good time tonight, let's celebrate, it's alright
(Celebration) We're gonna have a good time tonight, let's celebrate, it's alright
Ya Hooo, Ya Hooo
Celebrate good times come on, Let's celebrate, come on now
Celebrate good times come on, Let's celebrate, come on and celebrate
Celebrate good times come on, Let's celebrate, come on now
Celebrate good times come on, Let's celebrate, come on and celebrate
Freedom is Slavery
Ignorance is Strength
i think you are clearly out of line. you may disagree. you may have your opinions. but the man was a human, he did have a family, and he did have friends. show some class dude.
Remembering Jerry Falwell
Submitted by NDavis on May 15, 2007 - 3:30pm. :: Off-topic discussions
The Rev. Jerry Falwell -- longtime foe of GLBT people, women, and those who thirst for justice and equality -- died today.
When I heard the breaking news, my reaction shocked me. I wept.
Understand, there is a personal connection: I met, though wouldn't claim to know, the man. (Read about it here.) Saw him preach from the pulpit of his magnificent Thomas Road Baptist Church in Lynchburg, VA. Talked with him. Found him funny, interestingly enough. I never approved of his positions, his statements, his actions, what he did to the American political landscape. I am well aware of the human cost much of his ministry caused -- and told him so to his face. We were able to disagree without being disagreeable, which I see as a good thing.
This does not change the fact that the right-wing televangelist and Moral Majority founder disappointed me on a human level numerous times. Neither do his unchristian activities erase the fact that his ministry has done good as well. A fair person must note that too.
And now, suddenly, he's dead. How could anyone with a heart not react with sadness on some level?
In various places on the net, I've been reading people's reactions to the news. Won't link to them -- I don't want to call anyone out or make them feel bad or attract people to come and bash me for daring to feel sadness.
So I'll just say this and then go sit quietly for a while: Yeah, Jerry Falwell did some twisted, downright evil things in the name of Jesus. Enormously hideous and horrible things. He was virulently homophobic, a onetime (?) segregationist, a proponent of the traditional man-in-charge relationship model, and more. All true. All terrible. This should not, must not be forgotten.
Still, that's no justification for dancing on his grave. ANY death is a diminishment of the human family. We debase ourselves when we engage in hideous schadenfreude, and I'm seeing way too much of it today. It's devastating. And it's wrong.
Why are humans so damned cruel?
Rest in peace, Rev. Falwell. May your successor achieve more success than you did in embracing all of God's children. May those you harmed, if they still live, find healing and justice. And may the rest of us remember this:
"Forgive us our trespasses as we forgive those who trespass against us." Seven times seven times...
http://www.publicradioquest.com/node/1897
If his family and friends are PJ fans and visit this site then I'm shocked. Since that is not the case then screw Falwell. Being nice when these people die is why there continues to be assholes like him taking his place.
Freedom is Slavery
Ignorance is Strength
Weak kneed liberal response. Boohoo.
Freedom is Slavery
Ignorance is Strength
well considering she's offering respect even when she didn't like much of what the man stood for, which it appears is definitely a minority view of those on the left, I think it's quite a strong response. but as is clear, it doesn't matter.
hands, we usually disagree or at least spar back and forth but I completely agree with you here.
I'm not sure Sadaam killed anyone with his own hands, although he certainly instigated the deaths of many. Falwell may also have indirectly done the same through his hate mongering.
Look, if I met a member of Falwell's family I'd show due respect. But this is a rock bands message board, and so I will say what I think without there being a danger of upsetting any of his close kin.
I'm not decided yet on what falls out of him when he breaks open...
and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
over specific principles, goals, and policies.
http://i36.tinypic.com/66j31x.jpg
(\__/)
( o.O)
(")_(")
money and cheques from the elderly.
bahaaha...yes...definitely.
that would make a good flick...
I'll email this suggestion to Sacha Cohen for his next movie...
and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
over specific principles, goals, and policies.
http://i36.tinypic.com/66j31x.jpg
(\__/)
( o.O)
(")_(")
not a bad idea...
I needed a good laugh ! Good one !
Freedom is Slavery
Ignorance is Strength
See, I'm a uniter just like your boy Bush. Show me the love.
Freedom is Slavery
Ignorance is Strength