American Idiot

lalalalaaaaaaaa

Ricsard wrote:

They make punk rock or not - I truly love their stuffs from the early ages, and those two shows last year that I attended were amongst the best ones I've ever whitnessed! They blew our sportsarena and the entire Nova Rock festival, they were at the very high level of the biggest bands!!!

BTW American Idiot is still far better than almost anything on the radios of the world especially all those RnB, Hiphop and stupid whining terrible popshits (fuckin' Justin, Robbie Williams, Beyonce, Mariah, 50c, Jay-z etc) that you are almost forced to listen to and I don't think GD are sellouts 'cos they got popular again!!! It seems to be a shame to see them in an environment like that, amongst such losers but they are finally some exceptions of a true wisdom (radio spreads mostly shit) and it is amazing to hear/see some instant classic GD songs after 60 minutes of worthless and forgettable antimusic on MTV for example!!!
And we shouldn't forget we must respect all the generation and the nowadays teenagers are truly impressed by GD which is absolutely understandable if you wonder what MTV supllies and how much the world is fucked up!!! I remember how most people threw their shit onto PJ at the early nineties - it was painful to hear and read those comments 'cos I was 100% sure they would become evergreen in a very short time!!!!! I think GD has been on this road in spite of the fact that some people totally refuse it!

Let's face the truth: the biggest problem of the majority of the punk bands is the fact they are spontaneous often talentless, but funloving and sincere guys who do not just want to, but even are NOT able to step out of their shadows and become professional or make music that stands the test of time!!!!!!!
The Clash, SP, Green Day and Offspring and some few others proved the opposite, each album of theirs are at least good...(the price was fulmination from the punk rock scene which is ridiculous) but what about the others???:D:D:D
If the mighty Ramones (I love their music) had made it big they would be the most stupid band in the majority's opinion...but they didn't and after those tragedies they've been in a cultic status!!! How strange is it???
Honestly guys, What does REALLY matter : outfit, image, success, the death of a rock star....or maybe the music you choose to listen to????????;) Think about just PJ!;);)

Stop yelling....jeez.

Ricsard

hm...what an intelligent reaction! thanx for this!

edvedder913

I must say - I do not own all of Green Day's CD's and I have never seen them live but American Idiot is up there with my favorites. It has that Pink Floyyd "The Wall" feel to it in my opinion. (I am not saying the music is similiar)

lalalalaaaaaaaa

Ricsard wrote:

hm...what an intelligent reaction! thanx for this!

I was just joking, dude...

But in all seriousness, I somewhat agree that punk or not...Green Day is a solid band.

I disagree with lumping Jay-Z in with the "stupid whining terrible popshits" category though...I think that shows a total lack of knowledge and respect for hip hop.

norm

edvedder913 wrote:

It has that Pink Floyd "The Wall" feel to it in my opinion. (I am not saying the music is similar)

Both are concept albums so your feelings are correct.

justam

edvedder913 wrote:

I must say - I do not own all of Green Day's CD's and I have never seen them live but American Idiot is up there with my favorites. It has that Pink Floyyd "The Wall" feel to it in my opinion. (I am not saying the music is similiar)

I think that's what I like most about it. It's a whole story.

Ricsard

Saturnal wrote:

I was just joking, dude...

But in all seriousness, I somewhat agree that punk or not...Green Day is a solid band.

I disagree with lumping Jay-Z in with the "stupid whining terrible popshits" category though...I think that shows a total lack of knowledge and respect for hip hop.

You might be right 'cos I can't help disliking those "performers" (NOT MUSICIANS!!!) who just ignore exploring and progressing music but pretend to be badass and cool instead of making something unforgettable.
Yes, I'm actually confessing: I hate most of(cca. 96%) the "always playing the same shit" rap and hip-hop music.
You can't even mention this style together with Green Day (think about Waiting, Good Riddance, She, Pasalaqua or almost ANYTHING ELSE), if you do, you must be kidding!:)

lalalalaaaaaaaa

Ricsard wrote:

You might be right 'cos I can't help disliking those "performers" (NOT MUSICIANS!!!) who just ignore exploring and progressing music but pretend to be badass and cool instead of making something unforgettable.
Yes, I'm actually confessing: I hate most of(cca. 96%) the "always playing the same shit" rap and hip-hop music.
You can't even mention this style together with Green Day (think about Waiting, Good Riddance, She, Pasalaqua or almost ANYTHING ELSE), if you do, you must be kidding!:)

I'm not sure how to respond to that, except to say it's coming from pure ignorance, and not just opinion. There are plenty of hip hop artists who've explored and progressed the genre, and Jay-Z does happen to be one of them.

It's saddening to me that so many rock fans always say the same garbage like you do..."rappers aren't musicians", "all rap sounds the same and it's shit", "they're not artists", etc. It's one thing not to like rap, but it's completely rediculous to say what you are. Like I said before, I don't like punk music but I respect it enough not to sit here and say "punk sucks and it all sounds the same".

It's saddening but it's also funny, because rock fans who hate hip-hop think they're so much more open-minded for listening to bands like Green Day and Pearl Jam, when in fact they're the opposite.

Ricsard

Saturnal wrote:

I'm not sure how to respond to that, except to say it's coming from pure ignorance, and not just opinion. There are plenty of hip hop artists who've explored and progressed the genre, and Jay-Z does happen to be one of them.

It's saddening to me that so many rock fans always say the same garbage like you do..."rappers aren't musicians", "all rap sounds the same and it's shit", "they're not artists", etc. It's one thing not to like rap, but it's completely rediculous to say what you are. Like I said before, I don't like punk music but I respect it enough not to sit here and say "punk sucks and it all sounds the same".

It's saddening but it's also funny, because rock fans who hate hip-hop think they're so much more open-minded for listening to bands like Green Day and Pearl Jam, when in fact they're the opposite.

Hey, comparing PJ or even Green Day to those you praise don't really seem real artists to me...Have you ever been to a rap/hip-hop show(for example 50 cent supported by a notebook with a Winamp and much weed)??? or a PJ show??? If you say yes to both, then it's me who is laughing at you! That's what sounds ridiculous to me, sorry (and not your joke attempts)!
I have no idea how the hell you'd know me to say I am not open-minded just because I mentionned I dislike this style (with few exceptions). You don't even know about the many music genre I listen to so you ought to stop analyzing me right now! Go to as many PJ shows as you can (if you are so lucky to see them) instead of being a clever egg hereabout!

lalalalaaaaaaaa

Ricsard wrote:

Hey, comparing PJ or even Green Day to those you praise don't really seem real artists to me...Have you ever been to a rap/hip-hop show(for example 50 cent supported by a notebook with a Winamp and much weed)??? or a PJ show??? If you say yes to both, then it's me who is laughing at you! That's what sounds ridiculous to me, sorry (and not your joke attempts)!
I have no idea how the hell you'd know me to say I am not open-minded just because I mentionned I dislike this style (with few exceptions). You don't even know about the many music genre I listen to so you ought to stop analyzing me right now! Go to as many PJ shows as you can (if you are so lucky to see them) instead of being a clever egg hereabout!

I haven't seen 50 Cent, but I wouldn't put him in the same boat as Jay-Z either. I have been to many rap shows though, as well as Pearl Jam shows.

Again, you're just showing me that you don't dig into hip-hop enough to even understand it or gain some respect for it. All you've mentioned are pop rap stars. Do you describe rock music by mentioning bands like Nickelback and Creed? I have been to many rap shows though, as well as Pearl Jam shows and I think they're all good for the most part.

And I'm not trying to completely analyze you here, but I do think that when someone says hip-hop artists aren't real artists and only performers, it shows ignorance and close-mindedness.

facepollution

Saturnal wrote:

And I'm not trying to completely analyze you here, but I do think that when someone says hip-hop artists aren't real artists and only performers, it shows ignorance and close-mindedness.

I'm not saying this guy is totally right with regrads to rap and hip-hop, but the vast majority of mainstream rap and hip-hop is dominated by vapid, uninspired lyrics. I'm not saying all of it is, and fair play if you can find something in that which you can enjoy, but I can totally understand why many rock fans find modern rap totally vacuous. And thinking about it, the actual art-form of rapping isn't what people have issue with, after all millions of rock fans liked RATM, Beastie Boys and to some extent people like Eminem, so it has to be the lyrical content that irks people. Personally speaking, if I like a song, I like it - doesn't matter who it is, what genre of music, if it's good, then that's all that matters.

How the fuck did we get on the topic of rap music......

Green Day rule.

lalalalaaaaaaaa

facepollution wrote:

I'm not saying this guy is totally right with regrads to rap and hip-hop, but the vast majority of mainstream rap and hip-hop is dominated by vapid, uninspired lyrics. I'm not saying all of it is, and fair play if you can find something in that which you can enjoy, but I can totally understand why many rock fans find modern rap totally vacuous. And thinking about it, the actual art-form of rapping isn't what people have issue with, after all millions of rock fans liked RATM, Beastie Boys and to some extent people like Eminem, so it has to be the lyrical content that irks people. Personally speaking, if I like a song, I like it - doesn't matter who it is, what genre of music, if it's good, then that's all that matters.

How the fuck did we get on the topic of rap music......

Green Day rule.

The vast majority of mainstream music is dominated by vapid, uninspired lyrics. But rock fans always single out rap, and it has nothing to do with the lyrics. What you said is a perfect example...RATM, Beastie Boys, and Eminem all have one very obvious thing in common, and it isn't their lyrical content. You're kidding yourself if you believe rock fans like those three groups because they have better lyrical content.

sickwillie

Wow, we went from Green Day to rap? I LOVE this thread!

Seriously though, some of the most adventurous and interesting artists in the history of music have been hip-hop artists. I can admit this, even as a rock fan. You can't dismiss the impact of an artist like Run DMC, Public Enemy, N.W.A., or even Eminem. They've all changed the face of music, just as drastically (if not more) as the classic bands everyone holds in godlike regard.

With this spirit in mind, if I may, allow me to make a bold statement to tie us in with the previous sentiments...

In his late 80's-early 90's heyday, Ice-T was more punk than most punk.

facepollution

Saturnal wrote:

The vast majority of mainstream music is dominated by vapid, uninspired lyrics. But rock fans always single out rap, and it has nothing to do with the lyrics. What you said is a perfect example...RATM, Beastie Boys, and Eminem all have one very obvious thing in common, and it isn't their lyrical content. You're kidding yourself if you believe rock fans like those three groups because they have better lyrical content.

Well maybe not Eminem, although some of his lyrics can be quite witty and his impact is undeniable. But RATM and Beasties both have good lyrics. And personally I don't find bad rap any more offensive than bad pop or bad rock etc. I'm kind of unsure what this one 'obvious' thing they have in common is. Please enlighten me.

Ps. I agree with sickwillie.

lalalalaaaaaaaa

facepollution wrote:

Well maybe not Eminem, although some of his lyrics can be quite witty and his impact is undeniable. But RATM and Beasties both have good lyrics. And personally I don't find bad rap any more offensive than bad pop or bad rock etc. I'm kind of unsure what this one 'obvious' thing they have in common is. Please enlighten me.

Ps. I agree with sickwillie.

The obvious thing is that those artists are, for the most part, white. Not to mention the fact that most people don't classify RATM under hip hop. Artists like Jurassic 5, A Tribe Called Quest, De La Soul, The Roots, and 2Pac all have great lyrics...arguably much better lyrics than the Beastie Boys and Eminem. But most rock fans wouldn't know it because they don't bother to search through the pop garbage to find these artists like they do for rock. It has nothing to do with the lyrical content...it has to do with rock fans (who are mostly white) ultimately looking at hip-hop as a black thing. The same goes for most hip-hop fans who look at rock as a white thing. I'm not saying everyone should like rock and/or hip-hop, but I am saying it's ignorant to single out one or the other and say "rock sucks for the most part" or "hip-hop sucks for the most part". What people should be saying is "pop music sucks for the most part".

letsongsprotest

Havent taken the time to read all of the replies to this thread, but I'm sure there is alot of shit talking about AI. Personally, I like Green Day and when AI first came out I thought it was tremendous. I still really like it, but the radio/MTV killed alot of the songs on as they usually do.

facepollution

Saturnal wrote:

The obvious thing is that those artists are, for the most part, white. Not to mention the fact that most people don't classify RATM under hip hop. Artists like Jurassic 5, A Tribe Called Quest, De La Soul, The Roots, and 2Pac all have great lyrics...arguably much better lyrics than the Beastie Boys and Eminem. But most rock fans wouldn't know it because they don't bother to search through the pop garbage to find these artists like they do for rock. It has nothing to do with the lyrical content...it has to do with rock fans (who are mostly white) ultimately looking at hip-hop as a black thing. The same goes for most hip-hop fans who look at rock as a white thing. I'm not saying everyone should like rock and/or hip-hop, but I am saying it's ignorant to single out one or the other and say "rock sucks for the most part" or "hip-hop sucks for the most part". What people should be saying is "pop music sucks for the most part".

Wow, are you calling me racist? I was only focusing on hip-hop and rap because somebody else bought it up. I wasn't for a second saying there isn't any decent rap music, and for the record, the reason I used those acts as examples was because some of them use guitars which tend to appeal more to rock fans. Please also notice I said the vast majority of MAINSTREAM rap and hip-hop. The point I was trying to make was that essentially I think a lot of rock fans are capable of enjoying rap as a form of expression, but that there is quite a difference between the styles of lyrics displayed in mainstream rock and mainstream rap.

lalalalaaaaaaaa

facepollution wrote:

Wow, are you calling me racist? I was only focusing on hip-hop and rap because somebody else bought it up. I wasn't for a second saying there isn't any decent rap music, and for the record, the reason I used those acts as examples was because some of them use guitars which tend to appeal more to rock fans. Please also notice I said the vast majority of MAINSTREAM rap and hip-hop. The point I was trying to make was that essentially I think a lot of rock fans are capable of enjoying rap as a form of expression, but that there is quite a difference between the styles of lyrics displayed in mainstream rock and mainstream rap.

No, I'm not calling anyone a racist. I know you specified mainstream hip-hop, but the other person I was talking to didn't.

However, I still disagree with you on the reason why most rock fans don't like most rap. I think the reason is because they (being mostly white) don't feel like they can relate to hip-hop at all. You were right to list the hip-hop artists you did, but the reason more rock fans like them has more to do with race than lyrical content. I'm not saying it's ONLY due to race, but it's certainly not mostly due to lyrical content. Like I said, there are plenty of artists out there with incredible lyrics, yet they get lumped in with the likes of 50 Cent by rock fans. That to me, shows ignorance and a lack of knowledge and respect for hip-hop.

facepollution

Saturnal wrote:

No, I'm not calling anyone a racist. I know you specified mainstream hip-hop, but the other person I was talking to didn't.

However, I still disagree with you on the reason why most rock fans don't like most rap. I think the reason is because they (being mostly white) don't feel like they can relate to hip-hop at all. You were right to list the hip-hop artists you did, but the reason more rock fans like them has more to do with race than lyrical content. I'm not saying it's ONLY due to race, but it's certainly not mostly due to lyrical content. Like I said, there are plenty of artists out there with incredible lyrics, yet they get lumped in with the likes of 50 Cent by rock fans. That to me, shows ignorance and a lack of knowledge and respect for hip-hop.

Ok for the most part, the artists you are talking about are on the outskirts of the mainstream, so it's entirely feasible that a lot of rock fans wouldn't be aware they even existed. A lot of rock music is based around 'meaningful' or 'emotional' lyrics. Whether these lyrics are really that 'meaningful' is besides the point, it's the way they are perceived by the listener. The mainstream rap I'm exposed to tends to be bland songs about guns, hos, bling etc. I think the reason a lot of rock fans have embraced stuff like eminem is because he has written about similar themes that appear in rock music. Personally I don't really care for eminem, some of it's alright, but for the most part I find him to be a bit of a moaner.

P.s I'm talking about the reason most rock fans don't like mainstream rap - just to clarify.

lalalalaaaaaaaa

facepollution wrote:

Ok for the most part, the artists you are talking about are on the outskirts of the mainstream, so it's entirely feasible that a lot of rock fans wouldn't be aware they even existed.

See this is exactly my point. The average rock fan will bash certain mainstream bands such as Nickelback or Creed, but praise non-mainstream bands at the same time. Those people wouldn't be aware that those non-mainstream rock bands existed if they hadn't taken the time to look through the pop crap to find them. However, they won't do it for hip-hop...they will simply say "hip-hop sucks". I know you don't do that, but it sure seemed like that's what the other poster was doing. And the reason they don't give hip-hop the same chance is not because of the lyrical content of the mainstream artists.