I don't mind the album. It's not one I listen to every week, but it's still a decent album to listen to put on when you want some pop rock (which there is nothing wrong with if it's done right).
Here's my question, didn't Green Day put out a new wave album before American Idiot under another name? If so does anyone know where I can get it?
Unless you're talking about Shenanigans which can easily be found, there was Cigarettes and Valentines. I'm sure that can be found with enough searching online. Some douche stole the tapes when they had finished so they scrapped it and American Idiot was born. Apparently American Idiot was the better album though...
I don't mind the album. It's not one I listen to every week, but it's still a decent album to listen to put on when you want some pop rock (which there is nothing wrong with if it's done right).
Here's my question, didn't Green Day put out a new wave album before American Idiot under another name? If so does anyone know where I can get it?
yeah it was green day and a member of devo. they are called the network and the album is called money 2020. its a weird album.
anyways, i love green day, they are my second best band, dookie is their best album, followed by warning and then insomniac, then nimrod then its american idiot, then 1039 smoothed out slappy hours, then kerplunk (gasps for air)
they will have a new album out in 2008, billie joe said they have 3 albums worth of material. and each goes in different directions. 1 is a story like american idiot, the other is a staright up punk record and the other stuff they have is more experimental. he said and i quote that they stuff they have is "mind-blowing" and will top american idiot.
happy days.
...Pearl Jam, a group filled with pride, passion, and intricate musicianship. Their music is full of subtle textures, rich color, soul-searching power, imagery, and eerie dissonance.
I seriously hope you are kidding, here's some of the lyrics to Jesus of Suburbia - a far cry from the bullshit boy bands peddle.
I'm the son of rage and love
The Jesus of Suburbia
From the bible of none of the above
On a steady diet of soda pop and Ritalin
No one ever died for my sins in hell
As far as I can tell
At least the ones I got away with
And there's nothing wrong with me
This is how I'm supposed to be
In a land of make believe
That don't believe in me
Get my television fix sitting on my crucifix
The living room or my private womb
While the moms and brads are away
To fall in love and fall in debt
To alcohol and cigarettes and Mary Jane
To keep me insane and doing someone else's cocaine
And there's nothing wrong with me
This is how I'm supposed to be
In a land of make believe
That don't believe in me
aight, green day hasn't quite sunken to the level of my chemical shitpants, but these lyrics don't really help their credibility as a bay area punk trio. i am not embarrassed to say that i own every green day album (although i sold american idiot). but you have to realize that they really do suck nowadays; they are a joke; they COMPLETELY sold out; driven by money and fame -- they truly do not care about making punk rock anymore -- that is a fact, just accept it.
aight, green day hasn't quite sunken to the level of my chemical shitpants, but these lyrics don't really help their credibility as a bay area punk trio. i am not embarrassed to say that i own every green day album (although i sold american idiot). but you have to realize that they really do suck nowadays; they are a joke; they COMPLETELY sold out; driven by money and fame -- they truly do not care about making punk rock anymore -- that is a fact, just accept it.
Oh sorry, didn't realise it was a fact if YOU say so.
How would you know if they are driven by fame and money? Unless you know them, you know shit.
And those lyrics I posted are one of the best bits of social commentary I've read in ages, and since most punk rock tends to be based on singing about social situations, in particular those people that are being shit on, they are absolutely fucking spot on. Get off your pretentious high-horse. Yes they are very popular, BUT for all they knew AI could have ended their career. They make the music they want, and in making the music THEY want, that makes them as punk rock as any other punk band.
Oh sorry, didn't realise it was a fact if YOU say so.
How would you know if they are driven by fame and money? Unless you know them, you know shit.
And those lyrics I posted are one of the best bits of social commentary I've read in ages, and since most punk rock tends to be based on singing about social situations, in particular those people that are being shit on, they are absolutely fucking spot on. Get off your pretentious high-horse. Yes they are very popular, BUT for all they knew AI could have ended their career. They make the music they want, and in making the music THEY want, that makes them as punk rock as any other punk band.
I like Green Day and all, but they are not punk rock. All you have to do is "make the music you want" to be punk? That's a terrible definition of that genre. I personally don't like punk all that much, but it's something to be respected...and Green Day just isn't a part of it. I have no problem with them making pop music, but if they're classifying themselves as punk, that's pretty lame.
It seems to me that it's a waste of time to argue about what category a band's music fits into. Can't we just go on whether we like something or not?
If people don't like something...fine...and if they do like it, that can be fine too.
I think it's a waste of time to say "This isn't good because it isn't such-and-such or this is great because it is this-or-that."
I just think it's disrespectful to the punk genre and those artists to lump Green Day in with them. I may like you, but if I keep calling you Harry when you're name is justam, it's disrespectful.
Like I said, I like Green Day...but I like them for what they are...a pop rock band.
I just think it's disrespectful to the punk genre and those artists to lump Green Day in with them. I may like you, but if I keep calling you Harry when you're name is justam, it's disrespectful.
Like I said, I like Green Day...but I like them for what they are...a pop rock band.
I can understand what you're saying about calling me Harry and disrespect, but I don't think it's the same with genre labels.
I think people write music that they imagine in their minds without (unless they are manufactured bands and that's a different issue entirely!!) worrying what label will be applied to it.
I like Green Day and all, but they are not punk rock. All you have to do is "make the music you want" to be punk? That's a terrible definition of that genre. I personally don't like punk all that much, but it's something to be respected...and Green Day just isn't a part of it. I have no problem with them making pop music, but if they're classifying themselves as punk, that's pretty lame.
The sound is usually fast, few chords, etc. Greed Day has those qualities. But most importantly, punk rock is all about anti-establishment, non-conformist ideals. Green Day got rich by conforming to the establishment. I'm not saying there's anything wrong with that, but they are not punk rock.
The sound is usually fast, few chords, etc. Greed Day has those qualities. But most importantly, punk rock is all about anti-establishment, non-conformist ideals. Green Day got rich by conforming to the establishment. I'm not saying there's anything wrong with that, but they are not punk rock.
The establishment = the American government. They wrote songs damning the government's behaviour beyond belief, just because they got stupidly popular doing so doesn't mean they expected it to turn out that way - like I said before, the album could have sunk like a lead balloon. It seems you have issues with their popularity and the way they deal with fame.
Considering how well all their previous records sold, they would never have had to work another day in their lives if they didn't want to. They felt they had a worthwhile message to put out, and they had the balls to do it. Look at some of the other artists who dared to speak out against Bush, perhaps a bad example, but the Dixie Chicks were trashed beyond belief. Green Day on the other hand decided to go for the jugular despite what the consequences are, and that my friend is what punk-rock is all about - not giving a shit what the consequences are because you have beliefs and you aren't afraid to stand up for them.
The establishment = the American government. They wrote songs damning the government's behaviour beyond belief, just because they got stupidly popular doing so doesn't mean they expected it to turn out that way - like I said before, the album could have sunk like a lead balloon. It seems you have issues with their popularity and the way they deal with fame.
Considering how well all their previous records sold, they would never have had to work another day in their lives if they didn't want to. They felt they had a worthwhile message to put out, and they had the balls to do it. Look at some of the other artists who dared to speak out against Bush, perhaps a bad example, but the Dixie Chicks were trashed beyond belief. Green Day on the other hand decided to go for the jugular despite what the consequences are, and that my friend is what punk-rock is all about - not giving a shit what the consequences are because you have beliefs and you aren't afraid to stand up for them.
The sound is usually fast, few chords, etc. Greed Day has those qualities. But most importantly, punk rock is all about anti-establishment, non-conformist ideals. Green Day got rich by conforming to the establishment. I'm not saying there's anything wrong with that, but they are not punk rock.
But isn't by adhering to this punk ideal just conforming. They are doing their own thing and it happens to be popular. How is that not punk?:)
The establishment = the American government. They wrote songs damning the government's behaviour beyond belief, just because they got stupidly popular doing so doesn't mean they expected it to turn out that way - like I said before, the album could have sunk like a lead balloon. It seems you have issues with their popularity and the way they deal with fame.
Considering how well all their previous records sold, they would never have had to work another day in their lives if they didn't want to. They felt they had a worthwhile message to put out, and they had the balls to do it. Look at some of the other artists who dared to speak out against Bush, perhaps a bad example, but the Dixie Chicks were trashed beyond belief. Green Day on the other hand decided to go for the jugular despite what the consequences are, and that my friend is what punk-rock is all about - not giving a shit what the consequences are because you have beliefs and you aren't afraid to stand up for them.
I don't have issues with their popularity. As I said before, I like Green Day. But they are just not a punk band. They are pop rock. Have you ever been to a punk show? It's filled with people who would throw stuff at a band like Green Day until they stopped playing...right or wrong, that's the way it is. Have you been to a Green Day show? The majority of that crowd is suburban middle-class kids, mostly under the age of 18.
And their message was worthwhile, but if they were a punk band, they would've been putting out that message in every album. Again, I just disagree with your definition of punk music, in the sense that all you have to do is make the music you want to make, and not give a shit about the consequences. Making a pop record released on a major label isn't standing up for your beliefs or being anti-establishment. It's not punk. Like I said before, I don't even like punk music, but I respect it enough to know the difference between pop and punk.
But isn't by adhering to this punk ideal just conforming. They are doing their own thing and it happens to be popular. How is that not punk?:)
I don't wanna get into the whole thing about "I wanna be different...just like everyone else", but like I said before...if doing your own thing is all it takes to define punk, then Michael Jackson would fit the label. Non-conformist means you search to be truly unique without ANY influence from the norms of society. That takes a lot more than simply questioning the government. I certainly don't have the will nor desire to make such an effort, but there are a few people who do...and their music is punk.
Making a pop record released on a major label isn't standing up for your beliefs or being anti-establishment. It's not punk.
I don't want to open up a can of worms here, but the Sex Pistols' "Never Mind The Bollocks" was released on a major label. And if that's not a punk rock record, nothing is.
"We've done really well with teenage death songs." -EV
I don't want to open up a can of worms here, but the Sex Pistols' "Never Mind The Bollocks" was released on a major label. And if that's not a punk rock record, nothing is.
That's a perfect example of what true punk fans would not consider punk. Punk bands release on independent labels...Black Flag, The Queers, Dead Kennedys, etc.
That's a perfect example of what true punk fans would not consider punk. Punk bands release on independent labels...Black Flag, The Queers, Dead Kennedys, etc.
Since you mention Black Flag,
CityBeat: It always seemed that punk wasn’t just about music, but also about writing, and spoken word, and photography, and the drawings of Raymond Pettibon, which often seems to get lost.
Henry Rollins: All of a sudden you’re hanging out with arty motherfuckers. Poets, and photographers, and painters, and guys who wanted to sketch you. To this day, that’s still very much the punk-rock thing. Here’s a guy who calls himself a punk-rock skateboard artist, because that’s what punk-rock should be there for: “I’m gonna be the punk-rock poet.” Well, go man, go! You can’t say, “I’m going to be the hair-metal poet.” Half of the fans will beat you up in the parking lot for even saying “poet.”
I always thought punk rock was the safe haven for weirdos – and as far as America is concerned, weirdo would mean homosexual, divergent thinker, maybe the next Man Ray. Then it became more prettified, and went so solidly uptown in the early ’90s. The newer version is very radio-friendly, defanged, declawed.
When Nirvana exploded on the airwaves in 1991, a lot of longtime punk-rock fans rejoiced that punk had finally “won,” declaring “We’ve taken over.”
Nirvana did help at least get rid of all the Warrants and Cinderellas of the world. And I loved the shove that Nirvana and company made into radio, MTV, and just said, “We’re here,” and “30,000 kids can’t be wrong! You must now listen to us!” My heart still swells when I think of that. In Black Flag, all we ever aspired to, besides world domination, was the next meal. We literally didn’t eat very much for five years, like a lot of indie bands. It sucked. Hated it. But we made some really good music.
–Steve Appleford http://www.lacitybeat.com/article.php?id=2701&IssueNum=122
I get what you are saying about Green Day. But they just did what Black Flag didn't want to do was make money. Now you say Green Day isn't punk but by bringing punk to the mainstream isn't that punk?
I'm probably in the minority with this opinion, but I honestly don't see what's so wrong about bands earning money for something genuine that they put out.
I'm probably in the minority with this opinion, but I honestly don't see what's so wrong about bands earning money for something genuine that they put out.
Feel free to throw flame balls now.
so long as you don't compromise and your integrity is intact. that's YOUR integrity. no one else's. not mine. not your momma's. no one's but yours.
hear my name
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
CityBeat: It always seemed that punk wasn’t just about music, but also about writing, and spoken word, and photography, and the drawings of Raymond Pettibon, which often seems to get lost.
Henry Rollins: All of a sudden you’re hanging out with arty motherfuckers. Poets, and photographers, and painters, and guys who wanted to sketch you. To this day, that’s still very much the punk-rock thing. Here’s a guy who calls himself a punk-rock skateboard artist, because that’s what punk-rock should be there for: “I’m gonna be the punk-rock poet.” Well, go man, go! You can’t say, “I’m going to be the hair-metal poet.” Half of the fans will beat you up in the parking lot for even saying “poet.”
I always thought punk rock was the safe haven for weirdos – and as far as America is concerned, weirdo would mean homosexual, divergent thinker, maybe the next Man Ray. Then it became more prettified, and went so solidly uptown in the early ’90s. The newer version is very radio-friendly, defanged, declawed.
When Nirvana exploded on the airwaves in 1991, a lot of longtime punk-rock fans rejoiced that punk had finally “won,” declaring “We’ve taken over.”
Nirvana did help at least get rid of all the Warrants and Cinderellas of the world. And I loved the shove that Nirvana and company made into radio, MTV, and just said, “We’re here,” and “30,000 kids can’t be wrong! You must now listen to us!” My heart still swells when I think of that. In Black Flag, all we ever aspired to, besides world domination, was the next meal. We literally didn’t eat very much for five years, like a lot of indie bands. It sucked. Hated it. But we made some really good music.
That's a perfect example of what true punk fans would not consider punk. Punk bands release on independent labels...Black Flag, The Queers, Dead Kennedys, etc.
That's what always bugged me about "true punk fans". They'll give unconditional, undying support to their favorite punk band... until they sign a contract. It's like all of a sudden that band isn't "true" punk because they're trying to make a living doing what they love.
I wonder if these "true punk fans" consider Offspring's "Smash" true punk? After all, it was released on an independent label. I suppose they were a punk band when they released "Smash", but ceased to be a punk band when 8 million people bought it.
All I'm saying is turning on a band because of a financial decision is a pretty disrespectful thing in my opinion. Let's face it... if you start a band, your long term goal is not to scrape by from day to day and live out of a smelly van. I would venture a guess that any musician who says he/she never wants to make a comfortable living from their craft is quite possibly a liar.
Agree, disagree, it doesn't matter much to me. I just don't buy the part of the punk mentality that determines a band's punkness to the amount of cash in their bank accounts.
"We've done really well with teenage death songs." -EV
That's what always bugged me about "true punk fans". They'll give unconditional, undying support to their favorite punk band... until they sign a contract. It's like all of a sudden that band isn't "true" punk because they're trying to make a living doing what they love.
I wonder if these "true punk fans" consider Offspring's "Smash" true punk? After all, it was released on an independent label. I suppose they were a punk band when they released "Smash", but ceased to be a punk band when 8 million people bought it.
All I'm saying is turning on a band because of a financial decision is a pretty disrespectful thing in my opinion. Let's face it... if you start a band, your long term goal is not to scrape by from day to day and live out of a smelly van. I would venture a guess that any musician who says he/she never wants to make a comfortable living from their craft is quite possibly a liar.
Agree, disagree, it doesn't matter much to me. I just don't buy the part of the punk mentality that determines a band's punkness to the amount of cash in their bank accounts.
I agree with most of what you're saying, believe me. Punk fans are snobs, no doubt about it, and it's not my bag. I like The Offspring too haha.
I agree with most of what you're saying, believe me. Punk fans are snobs, no doubt about it, and it's not my bag. I like The Offspring too haha.
It's all cool, and I'm not trying to start an argument or anything. But, you know, I wonder what these punk fans would say about the Exploited if Punk's Not Dead had gone 8x platinum
"We've done really well with teenage death songs." -EV
And those lyrics I posted are one of the best bits of social commentary I've read in ages, and since most punk rock tends to be based on singing about social situations, in particular those people that are being shit on, they are absolutely fucking spot on.
best bits of social commentary you've read in ages? are you serious?
I don't have issues with their popularity. As I said before, I like Green Day. But they are just not a punk band. They are pop rock. Have you ever been to a punk show? It's filled with people who would throw stuff at a band like Green Day until they stopped playing...right or wrong, that's the way it is. Have you been to a Green Day show? The majority of that crowd is suburban middle-class kids, mostly under the age of 18.
And their message was worthwhile, but if they were a punk band, they would've been putting out that message in every album. Again, I just disagree with your definition of punk music, in the sense that all you have to do is make the music you want to make, and not give a shit about the consequences. Making a pop record released on a major label isn't standing up for your beliefs or being anti-establishment. It's not punk. Like I said before, I don't even like punk music, but I respect it enough to know the difference between pop and punk.
I've seen Green Day live many times, and their audience is a real cross section of people, don't forget they got popular over ten years ago, and since they have retained many of their original fans, they are obviously older too. I first saw Green Day live back in '95 when I was 13 years old, I last saw them in 2005, and there were plenty of people my age and older. And yes I've seen other punk bands live too, my current favourite being The Bronx.
From the fact you say you don't really like punk music, I'd find it hard to believe you knew that much about it - why would you? I'm not really a fan of classical music, thus I know very little about it.
It sounds like you've been hanging out with punk purists for too long. I'll absolutely concede that they are pop-punk, since they quite obviously use pop melodies, but having said that so did bands like the Clash and the Ramones. The true meaning of the word 'Punk' is an aesthetic by which people live by. There is nowhere in the 'rule book' that says a punk band can't release an album on a major label.
best bits of social commentary you've read in ages? are you serious?
Absolutely. I think Billy Joe quite succinctly summed up the feelings of the average 'joe' getting fucked over and ignored by a government that just doesn't give a shit. Hell I could have posted the lyrics to any number of songs from that album, Holiday perfectly describes my feelings towards the Bush/Blair war on terror.
CityBeat: It always seemed that punk wasn’t just about music, but also about writing, and spoken word, and photography, and the drawings of Raymond Pettibon, which often seems to get lost.
Henry Rollins: All of a sudden you’re hanging out with arty motherfuckers. Poets, and photographers, and painters, and guys who wanted to sketch you. To this day, that’s still very much the punk-rock thing. Here’s a guy who calls himself a punk-rock skateboard artist, because that’s what punk-rock should be there for: “I’m gonna be the punk-rock poet.” Well, go man, go! You can’t say, “I’m going to be the hair-metal poet.” Half of the fans will beat you up in the parking lot for even saying “poet.”
I always thought punk rock was the safe haven for weirdos – and as far as America is concerned, weirdo would mean homosexual, divergent thinker, maybe the next Man Ray. Then it became more prettified, and went so solidly uptown in the early ’90s. The newer version is very radio-friendly, defanged, declawed.
When Nirvana exploded on the airwaves in 1991, a lot of longtime punk-rock fans rejoiced that punk had finally “won,” declaring “We’ve taken over.”
Nirvana did help at least get rid of all the Warrants and Cinderellas of the world. And I loved the shove that Nirvana and company made into radio, MTV, and just said, “We’re here,” and “30,000 kids can’t be wrong! You must now listen to us!” My heart still swells when I think of that. In Black Flag, all we ever aspired to, besides world domination, was the next meal. We literally didn’t eat very much for five years, like a lot of indie bands. It sucked. Hated it. But we made some really good music.
–Steve Appleford http://www.lacitybeat.com/article.php?id=2701&IssueNum=122
I get what you are saying about Green Day. But they just did what Black Flag didn't want to do was make money. Now you say Green Day isn't punk but by bringing punk to the mainstream isn't that punk?
No, I don't consider mainstream artists on major record labels punk. This isn't my definition, it's just how real punk fans think. I'm not defending it. And Green Day did not bring punk to the mainstream anyway. Nirvana did it before them like Rollins said. Bringing something to the mainstream is the opposite of punk.
Comments
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cigarettes_and_Valentines
yeah it was green day and a member of devo. they are called the network and the album is called money 2020. its a weird album.
anyways, i love green day, they are my second best band, dookie is their best album, followed by warning and then insomniac, then nimrod then its american idiot, then 1039 smoothed out slappy hours, then kerplunk (gasps for air)
they will have a new album out in 2008, billie joe said they have 3 albums worth of material. and each goes in different directions. 1 is a story like american idiot, the other is a staright up punk record and the other stuff they have is more experimental. he said and i quote that they stuff they have is "mind-blowing" and will top american idiot.
happy days.
hahaha
aight, green day hasn't quite sunken to the level of my chemical shitpants, but these lyrics don't really help their credibility as a bay area punk trio. i am not embarrassed to say that i own every green day album (although i sold american idiot). but you have to realize that they really do suck nowadays; they are a joke; they COMPLETELY sold out; driven by money and fame -- they truly do not care about making punk rock anymore -- that is a fact, just accept it.
http://www.myspace.com/brain_of_c
Oh sorry, didn't realise it was a fact if YOU say so.
How would you know if they are driven by fame and money? Unless you know them, you know shit.
And those lyrics I posted are one of the best bits of social commentary I've read in ages, and since most punk rock tends to be based on singing about social situations, in particular those people that are being shit on, they are absolutely fucking spot on. Get off your pretentious high-horse. Yes they are very popular, BUT for all they knew AI could have ended their career. They make the music they want, and in making the music THEY want, that makes them as punk rock as any other punk band.
I like Green Day and all, but they are not punk rock. All you have to do is "make the music you want" to be punk? That's a terrible definition of that genre. I personally don't like punk all that much, but it's something to be respected...and Green Day just isn't a part of it. I have no problem with them making pop music, but if they're classifying themselves as punk, that's pretty lame.
If people don't like something...fine...and if they do like it, that can be fine too.
I think it's a waste of time to say "This isn't good because it isn't such-and-such or this is great because it is this-or-that."
I just think it's disrespectful to the punk genre and those artists to lump Green Day in with them. I may like you, but if I keep calling you Harry when you're name is justam, it's disrespectful.
Like I said, I like Green Day...but I like them for what they are...a pop rock band.
I can understand what you're saying about calling me Harry and disrespect, but I don't think it's the same with genre labels.
I think people write music that they imagine in their minds without (unless they are manufactured bands and that's a different issue entirely!!) worrying what label will be applied to it.
Define punk-rock for me then.
Green Day was pop punk, now they are punk rock because they are rebelling against some part of pop culture.
Definately no Kerplunk.
9/17/95-New Orleans,LA 8/14/00-New Orleans,LA 4/8/03-New Orleans,LA 4/13/03-Tampa,FL 10/8/04-Kissimmee,FL 8/5/07-Chicago,IL 6/16/08-Columbia,SC 6/23/09-(EV Solo)Atlanta,GA 5/1/10-New Orleans,LA 9/21/12-Pensacola,FL 11/1/13-New Orleans,LA 4/11/16-Tampa,FL 4/23/16-New Orleans,LA
The sound is usually fast, few chords, etc. Greed Day has those qualities. But most importantly, punk rock is all about anti-establishment, non-conformist ideals. Green Day got rich by conforming to the establishment. I'm not saying there's anything wrong with that, but they are not punk rock.
The establishment = the American government. They wrote songs damning the government's behaviour beyond belief, just because they got stupidly popular doing so doesn't mean they expected it to turn out that way - like I said before, the album could have sunk like a lead balloon. It seems you have issues with their popularity and the way they deal with fame.
Considering how well all their previous records sold, they would never have had to work another day in their lives if they didn't want to. They felt they had a worthwhile message to put out, and they had the balls to do it. Look at some of the other artists who dared to speak out against Bush, perhaps a bad example, but the Dixie Chicks were trashed beyond belief. Green Day on the other hand decided to go for the jugular despite what the consequences are, and that my friend is what punk-rock is all about - not giving a shit what the consequences are because you have beliefs and you aren't afraid to stand up for them.
Agreed
But isn't by adhering to this punk ideal just conforming. They are doing their own thing and it happens to be popular. How is that not punk?:)
I don't have issues with their popularity. As I said before, I like Green Day. But they are just not a punk band. They are pop rock. Have you ever been to a punk show? It's filled with people who would throw stuff at a band like Green Day until they stopped playing...right or wrong, that's the way it is. Have you been to a Green Day show? The majority of that crowd is suburban middle-class kids, mostly under the age of 18.
And their message was worthwhile, but if they were a punk band, they would've been putting out that message in every album. Again, I just disagree with your definition of punk music, in the sense that all you have to do is make the music you want to make, and not give a shit about the consequences. Making a pop record released on a major label isn't standing up for your beliefs or being anti-establishment. It's not punk. Like I said before, I don't even like punk music, but I respect it enough to know the difference between pop and punk.
I don't wanna get into the whole thing about "I wanna be different...just like everyone else", but like I said before...if doing your own thing is all it takes to define punk, then Michael Jackson would fit the label. Non-conformist means you search to be truly unique without ANY influence from the norms of society. That takes a lot more than simply questioning the government. I certainly don't have the will nor desire to make such an effort, but there are a few people who do...and their music is punk.
That's a perfect example of what true punk fans would not consider punk. Punk bands release on independent labels...Black Flag, The Queers, Dead Kennedys, etc.
Since you mention Black Flag,
CityBeat: It always seemed that punk wasn’t just about music, but also about writing, and spoken word, and photography, and the drawings of Raymond Pettibon, which often seems to get lost.
Henry Rollins: All of a sudden you’re hanging out with arty motherfuckers. Poets, and photographers, and painters, and guys who wanted to sketch you. To this day, that’s still very much the punk-rock thing. Here’s a guy who calls himself a punk-rock skateboard artist, because that’s what punk-rock should be there for: “I’m gonna be the punk-rock poet.” Well, go man, go! You can’t say, “I’m going to be the hair-metal poet.” Half of the fans will beat you up in the parking lot for even saying “poet.”
I always thought punk rock was the safe haven for weirdos – and as far as America is concerned, weirdo would mean homosexual, divergent thinker, maybe the next Man Ray. Then it became more prettified, and went so solidly uptown in the early ’90s. The newer version is very radio-friendly, defanged, declawed.
When Nirvana exploded on the airwaves in 1991, a lot of longtime punk-rock fans rejoiced that punk had finally “won,” declaring “We’ve taken over.”
Nirvana did help at least get rid of all the Warrants and Cinderellas of the world. And I loved the shove that Nirvana and company made into radio, MTV, and just said, “We’re here,” and “30,000 kids can’t be wrong! You must now listen to us!” My heart still swells when I think of that. In Black Flag, all we ever aspired to, besides world domination, was the next meal. We literally didn’t eat very much for five years, like a lot of indie bands. It sucked. Hated it. But we made some really good music.
–Steve Appleford
http://www.lacitybeat.com/article.php?id=2701&IssueNum=122
I get what you are saying about Green Day. But they just did what Black Flag didn't want to do was make money. Now you say Green Day isn't punk but by bringing punk to the mainstream isn't that punk?
Feel free to throw flame balls now.
so long as you don't compromise and your integrity is intact. that's YOUR integrity. no one else's. not mine. not your momma's. no one's but yours.
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
if i had heroes(which i don't) henry rollins would be it. he is just an absolute inspiration to me. and not just for changing the way i write.
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
That's what always bugged me about "true punk fans". They'll give unconditional, undying support to their favorite punk band... until they sign a contract. It's like all of a sudden that band isn't "true" punk because they're trying to make a living doing what they love.
I wonder if these "true punk fans" consider Offspring's "Smash" true punk? After all, it was released on an independent label. I suppose they were a punk band when they released "Smash", but ceased to be a punk band when 8 million people bought it.
All I'm saying is turning on a band because of a financial decision is a pretty disrespectful thing in my opinion. Let's face it... if you start a band, your long term goal is not to scrape by from day to day and live out of a smelly van. I would venture a guess that any musician who says he/she never wants to make a comfortable living from their craft is quite possibly a liar.
Agree, disagree, it doesn't matter much to me. I just don't buy the part of the punk mentality that determines a band's punkness to the amount of cash in their bank accounts.
I agree with most of what you're saying, believe me. Punk fans are snobs, no doubt about it, and it's not my bag. I like The Offspring too haha.
It's all cool, and I'm not trying to start an argument or anything. But, you know, I wonder what these punk fans would say about the Exploited if Punk's Not Dead had gone 8x platinum
best bits of social commentary you've read in ages? are you serious?
I've seen Green Day live many times, and their audience is a real cross section of people, don't forget they got popular over ten years ago, and since they have retained many of their original fans, they are obviously older too. I first saw Green Day live back in '95 when I was 13 years old, I last saw them in 2005, and there were plenty of people my age and older. And yes I've seen other punk bands live too, my current favourite being The Bronx.
From the fact you say you don't really like punk music, I'd find it hard to believe you knew that much about it - why would you? I'm not really a fan of classical music, thus I know very little about it.
It sounds like you've been hanging out with punk purists for too long. I'll absolutely concede that they are pop-punk, since they quite obviously use pop melodies, but having said that so did bands like the Clash and the Ramones. The true meaning of the word 'Punk' is an aesthetic by which people live by. There is nowhere in the 'rule book' that says a punk band can't release an album on a major label.
Absolutely. I think Billy Joe quite succinctly summed up the feelings of the average 'joe' getting fucked over and ignored by a government that just doesn't give a shit. Hell I could have posted the lyrics to any number of songs from that album, Holiday perfectly describes my feelings towards the Bush/Blair war on terror.
No, I don't consider mainstream artists on major record labels punk. This isn't my definition, it's just how real punk fans think. I'm not defending it. And Green Day did not bring punk to the mainstream anyway. Nirvana did it before them like Rollins said. Bringing something to the mainstream is the opposite of punk.