History of the Downfall of PJ in Popular Culture

kh65

ajedigecko wrote:

i am fan.....and i dislike foxymob and bugs.

totally agree. what were they thinking with those songs. I love PJ so much. I just have a song here and there I don't like. Those have to be their two worst album songs.

UKpearljammer

While I agree in some sense, I also think 'Who You Are 'being the lead single for No Code, kinda put the nail in the coffin as far as being in the mainstream and also had an affect on sales.

PJammer4life

In my mind what blew Pearl Jam up to the mainstream audience was the Jeremy video, and by saying fuck you to MTV they burned that bride. Eddie always said good music didn't need a video and he didn't want his songs remembered as videos. Versus stood on its own without videos. Vitalogy could have been huge, but PJ didn't want to be the number one band in the world(i.e eddie's stalker problem) Imagine if they had put i got shit or hard to imagine on vitalogy instead of heyfoxy or bugs.

no code was a letdown for many who wanted ten part 2..to me it didn't flow well..the track order was all messed up as well..had the album been rearanged it would have been better. and try as i may i couldn't see them live during this period..they didn't tour in 1996 except for a few east coast and european dates. it was summer 1998 before they hit the west coast for yield.

what made ten huge was constant touring and videos..none of which they did due to being against MTV and Ticketmaster for vitalogy/no code. But even as No Code came out I knew I would be on a long ride with this band and was curious as they always said, what their eight or tenth or twelth album would sound like. they are a very talented group and who knows what will come over the next few albums..their catalog is second to none, and that is why many want to see them live..they have great energy as well.

cuyler41

The fall of the Pearl Jams popularity was not due to any one album. It was due to many factors. Some of which are the bands own doing(we all know the examples) and some are not.

Culture, good or bad is always changing. Pop culture is hungry bitch, constantly chewing shit up, tasting it and either tossing it aside (like PJ) or shitting it out. In order to stay in the mainstream you have to be like U2 (no offence), They've been digesting for a long time

I'm glad PJ had a huge "downfall" in popularity. Do we really want to see Ed lowered to the stage inside a giant lemon? Do we want to see emo Stone with guyliner ?

I thank god for the fall of Pearl Jam in popular culture.

Them-Bones

PearlJamPatriot wrote:

Pearl Jam is the only band still left from the grunge era.

Mark Arm would disagree

slightofjeff

TheGossman wrote:

Comeback would have been a good choice, as well as MITS, Gone was not

Gone is the most radio-friendly song on that entire album. There are a whole bunch of people where the only song they like off that album is Gone.

thecory

Taft wrote:

You and dreamweaver are way off....that was not my intent or the point of my post.

my post is from Wayne's World. you have sadly missed the intent or point of my post, which was to get someone to notice that it was from Wayne's World. Perhaps i should have picked a more obvious line. anyway, party on taft!!

corduroid

Smarter_Than_U wrote:

I agree with the original poster that Vitalogy left a bad taste in many fans' mouths and probably had a carry over effect to overall sales of No Code. Vitalogy was a difficult album for a difficult time (especially for Ed Ved) following Cobain's suicide. But if we are measuring their downfall by popular culture standards then I believe the history of their descent began well before Vitalogy.

Some of you probably recall that on the 92 Lollapalooza tour, they opted to turn down an offer to move into a more headlining spot even though between when they were booked and when the festival launched, they had become one of the biggest bands in the world. They opted to play second (after Lush) and have a 30 minute set. While I assume this didn't cost them any fans, and was a decision based purely on humility, had they played a longer set on what was the biggest show of the summer (back then it was) it would have certainly kept positive momentum going and would have aligned with popular culture norms ("fuck everyone else, this is my time"). This was a clear, early signal that they weren't going to embrace the limelight (probably a red flag if you worked for the record label).

Between Ten and Vs. there was a self-imposed shutout of the media (who can survive in pop culture without the media??). This is also when Ed started to purposefully alienate opinion makers like Kurt Loder (a person you should have been nice to if you wanted to be big then). As Vs. was coming out, the only journalist Ed would do an interview with was Cameron Crowe--everyone else got a big FUCK YOU.

A critical decision was also made by the band during this time, as you all know, to not make videos for the second album (MTV is obvioulsy is a huge part of dictating pop culture trends). While this did not hurt sales of Vs., I would argue that it did begin to erode the corporate infrastructure (MTV, Sony, etc.) that supported their success.

At the end of the Vs. tour, which they refused to accept any corporate money for and went so far as to cover up ads at venues with huge black curtains, Pearl Jam also cancelled a New Year's gig for MTV (due to illness), which if they played it would have meant greater fan exposure and maybe mending fences with the suits at MTV.

While the band's unwillingness to "play the game" during this time made them seem much more appealing from a fan perspective, it was during these formative years of the band that this "negative" behavior (by current pop culture standards; in the early 90s non-conformity was cool) was reinforced and in fact greatly rewarded. They were taught (through massive record sales) that didn't have to sell out to sell a shit load of records.

This sense that they could do whatever the heck they wanted culminated in the release of Vitalogy (to date still one of their most challenging records). Their sense that they could do whatever they wanted (have a silly accordian song about bugs or a 12 minutes schizo song with a child endorsing suicide) ultimately put them way too far out over the edge from pop culture norms. So far out there that their once rabid, adoring fan base began to reject them.

Anyway, I think the original poster does a good job from Vitalogy onward, but I thought it might be interesting to go back a little further to trace what I would consider the COMPLETE history of the downfall, which ironically enough seems to start more or less at the beginning.

Great post

The Waiting Trophy Man

harmless_little_f*** wrote:

I couldn't disagree more. I don't know one casual PJ fan who doesn't love Vitalogy.

I remember being at some chick's house and she had vitalgogy in her cd rack. I told her how much I loved it and she said that there were only "like 2 good songs on it". Stupid idiot, lol

Allie

slightofjeff wrote:

Gone is the most radio-friendly song on that entire album. There are a whole bunch of people where the only song they like off that album is Gone.

Come Back is amazing,
that could have been a #1 song

I don't like Gone at all

also,
about those who think not making videos didn't contribute to the 'downfall,'
I disagree,
back in the mid 90's they still played videos on MTV (and Fuse didn't exist)
and it was a huge marketing tool for music

I think that had an effect on things

foxymophandlemomma

harmless_little_f*** wrote:

I couldn't disagree more. I don't know one casual PJ fan who doesn't love Vitalogy.

i may be late to respond, but I'm shocked you say this...all casual fans i've ever encountered says they loved ten & vs, but lost it after that...

NuclearTreeFrog

MITS had single written all over it... thats how I knew they weren't gonna pick it.

foxymophandlemomma

PearlJamPatriot wrote:

Seriously, Gone just sounds like an improv to me he did in concert and decided to make it a single.

am i listening to the same song? i really like this song. it may be a slow starter, but the chorus reels me in...i love driving to this song.

If nothing is everything, if nothing is everything I have it ALLLLLLL.

Binural is my least favorite album...

foxymophandlemomma

DriftingByTheStorm wrote:

Pearl Jam don't have an image, and that IS their image.
They have no marketing gimmick, and that is their gimmick!

Thats from 5 Against One.

i think a) you have an act and that b) not having an act is your act.

DriftingByTheStorm

foxymophandlemomma wrote:

i think a) you have an act and that b) not having an act is your act.

Hey!
This is not the bathroom!

PJammer4life wrote:

by saying fuck you to MTV they burned that bride.

I agree.
But i am a big fan of burning brides, so...

Steve wrote:

Bailey, you got twenty numbers
of twenty girls that you will never call...



...never go out with,
never see in the daylight.



Twenty numbers that exist only to make
you feel like you can get twenty numbers.

lukin137

whats with all the avocado haters on this thread....i happen to like the damn thing and dont appreciate all this negativity..........mccreadys song .. inside job.. is probs the best on the album

BinFrog

Steve Dunne wrote:

IMHO 'Who You Are' released as the first single off of 'No Code' was the final exclamation point (in the 90's) in seeing who was with Pearl Jam and who was not. Even dj's were saying 'WTF' when that came out.

It started with the experimentation on Vitalogy, and WYA as the first single on No Code sealed the deal. At that point you were either with them or you had jumped ship. Merkinball had potential to ride a wave into the release of No Code, but that didn't occur.

Lets not forget Vitalogy still had vintage catchy tunes: Betterman, Not For You, Nothingman, Corduroy. No Code is not easily accessible and ventured into a lot of tribal and rhythmic music as opposed to more easily digestible pop hard rock. Vitalogy started to lose fans because of the 'artsy' feel of it, but No Code seemed to be PJ's deliberate attempt to start fresh and screw convention. What a great period it was if you stayed along for the ride though.

he still stands

THANK FREAKIN' CHRIST PJ WASN'T POPULAR IN THE LATE 90S

Was it because Pearl Jam was playing music that was less radio friendly, less appealing to the "casual" fan, and more experimental?

Of course.

But can we also thank their lack of popularity to the horrid taste of the late 90s music scene?

I think so...

BUSH (although ok IMO they were the forebearer to Nickelback, Creed, etc)
SMASH MOUTH
SUGAR RAY
BLINK 182
CHUMBAWAMBA
THIRD EYE BLIND
KORN
LIMP BIZKIT

These are the rock bands that were popular when PEARL JAM lost their popularity during the mid to late 90s. I think we need to look at the EXTERNAL part of the equation here. Of course PJ didn't follow this horrific trend of shit music. Thats the only way they would have stayed popular, but this band has prinicpalities and shit.

Just my 2 cents...

indifferentman

I agree, Vitalogy was the beginning of PJ’s fall out of the limelight. I also think it was a conscious choice too. They stopped making videos, fought ticket master, shunned the media, and put out a record with some very WEIRD songs on it. Hell, I shrugged them off too. After the Grammy Awards stunt (“This award means nothing to us”) and so forth, they stopped being an accessible band to most people, and they shut out attention purposely. Granted Better man, Corduroy, Immortality, Whipping, etc. were good, but Bugs, Foxymop, Aye Davita, Tremor Christ, etc. were fucking WEIRD! I don’t know if they purposely “sabotaged” themselves with Vitalogy or No Code, but they clearly didn’t try to “make people happy” by writing songs that people expected them to. I think the time in history contributed a lot to it too. In 96-97 rock music was fucking DEAD. Nothing new was coming out, grunge was dying, Alternative Nation and Head bangers Ball were no more, and Rap was exploding. I remember back then thinking “Damn it, just give me some new traditional ROCK to listen too!” What did we get, this Nu-metal bullshit and Korn, Kid Rock, Linkin Park, Nickleback, Creed *shudders*, Puddle of Mudd, etc. Suddenly we got some “ROCK” back in post 2000, but it hasn’t really been much.

As a 15 yr. old kid back then I was mostly still listening to the crap that spilled out of MTV, I didn’t want bother to follow Pearl Jam anymore because they just weren’t talked about anymore. No Code came and went, I thought about buying it, then passed on it. I didn’t want to bother with something I heard nothing about. I continued to listen to Ten and Vs. A LOT, but I didn’t really fall back into appreciating the band until AFTER Yield. A new friend of mine at the time in 99 told me I really WAS missing out, and I came back into the fold again. I’ve been a diehard since, but at that period in time Pearl Jam didn’t give the average person much incentive to listen.

I think that decision to step away from the spotlight is what really formed the TRUE fan base since. Chances are, if you’ve FOUND Pearl Jam in the last 8 years and you continue to enjoy their music, it’s because you appreciate the growth and the changing direction they have taken with their music. If you picked up Binural or Riot Act out of curiosity, you tossed it soon after because you thought “this doesn’t sound like Jeremy…..” I think the music sort of polarizes people. It’s US (10C members) vs. THEM ( “Ten fans”). I also feel much of the music has its own sort of “message”, and if you were looking for something to mosh too, a song like Wish List would bore you.

I think if Pearl Jam had continued to face the pressure and expectations, they would’ve burnt out. We wouldn’t be fighting tooth and nail for fan club tickets today, we’d be wondering why Vedder and most of the boys became recluses who never bothered to continue their career (Kirst Novoselic, Kim Thayil, what happened?!) Besides, do you honestly think that Pearl Jam should be kickin’ it with Fall Out Boy and Sum 41 on the Warped Tour? Would American Idol have a day for them? Would they do a guest appearance on The OC? Would they go on the Honda Summer Tour? Pearl Jam just simply isn’t as marketable anymore, and with the age of the band members, nor would I expect them to be in the same way. I’d rather have them be what they are now, a gifted band that has the freedom to do what they want to, and an appreciative fan base that would follow them anywhere.

spinDrAtl

I'd like to see Pearl Jam night on American Idol. After all, they just had Dolly Parton night. Fair is fair, right?