History of the Downfall of PJ in Popular Culture

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  • I couldn't disagree more. I don't know one casual PJ fan who doesn't love Vitalogy.

    i may be late to respond, but I'm shocked you say this...all casual fans i've ever encountered says they loved ten & vs, but lost it after that...
    It's an art to live with pain...mix the light into grey..

    9.28.96, 9.8.98, 8.24.00, 8.27.00, 8.29.00, 7.2.03, 7.3.03, 7.9.03, 7.11.03, 9.28.04, 5.1.06, 5.13.06, 5.31.06, 6.1.06, 6.3.06, 6.24.08, 6.25.08, 6.27.08, 6.28.08, 6.30.08
  • MITS had single written all over it... thats how I knew they weren't gonna pick it.
    "The sun is shining, but not for me."
  • Seriously, Gone just sounds like an improv to me he did in concert and decided to make it a single.

    am i listening to the same song? i really like this song. it may be a slow starter, but the chorus reels me in...i love driving to this song.

    If nothing is everything, if nothing is everything I have it ALLLLLLL.

    Binural is my least favorite album...
    It's an art to live with pain...mix the light into grey..

    9.28.96, 9.8.98, 8.24.00, 8.27.00, 8.29.00, 7.2.03, 7.3.03, 7.9.03, 7.11.03, 9.28.04, 5.1.06, 5.13.06, 5.31.06, 6.1.06, 6.3.06, 6.24.08, 6.25.08, 6.27.08, 6.28.08, 6.30.08
  • Pearl Jam don't have an image, and that IS their image.
    They have no marketing gimmick, and that is their gimmick!

    Thats from 5 Against One.
    ;)

    i think a) you have an act and that b) not having an act is your act.
    It's an art to live with pain...mix the light into grey..

    9.28.96, 9.8.98, 8.24.00, 8.27.00, 8.29.00, 7.2.03, 7.3.03, 7.9.03, 7.11.03, 9.28.04, 5.1.06, 5.13.06, 5.31.06, 6.1.06, 6.3.06, 6.24.08, 6.25.08, 6.27.08, 6.28.08, 6.30.08
  • i think a) you have an act and that b) not having an act is your act.

    Hey!
    This is not the bathroom!
    by saying fuck you to MTV they burned that bride.

    I agree.
    But i am a big fan of burning brides, so...
    ;)
    Steve wrote:
    Bailey, you got twenty numbers
    of twenty girls that you will never call...



    ...never go out with,
    never see in the daylight.



    Twenty numbers that exist only to make
    you feel like you can get twenty numbers.
    If I was to smile and I held out my hand
    If I opened it now would you not understand?
  • lukin137lukin137 Posts: 19
    whats with all the avocado haters on this thread....i happen to like the damn thing and dont appreciate all this negativity..........mccreadys song .. inside job.. is probs the best on the album
  • BinFrogBinFrog MA Posts: 7,309
    IMHO 'Who You Are' released as the first single off of 'No Code' was the final exclamation point (in the 90's) in seeing who was with Pearl Jam and who was not. Even dj's were saying 'WTF' when that came out.



    It started with the experimentation on Vitalogy, and WYA as the first single on No Code sealed the deal. At that point you were either with them or you had jumped ship. Merkinball had potential to ride a wave into the release of No Code, but that didn't occur.

    Lets not forget Vitalogy still had vintage catchy tunes: Betterman, Not For You, Nothingman, Corduroy. No Code is not easily accessible and ventured into a lot of tribal and rhythmic music as opposed to more easily digestible pop hard rock. Vitalogy started to lose fans because of the 'artsy' feel of it, but No Code seemed to be PJ's deliberate attempt to start fresh and screw convention. What a great period it was if you stayed along for the ride though.
    Bright eyed kid: "Wow Typo Man, you're the best!"
    Typo Man: "Thanks kidz, but remembir, stay in skool!"
  • THANK FREAKIN' CHRIST PJ WASN'T POPULAR IN THE LATE 90S

    Was it because Pearl Jam was playing music that was less radio friendly, less appealing to the "casual" fan, and more experimental?

    Of course.

    But can we also thank their lack of popularity to the horrid taste of the late 90s music scene?

    I think so...

    BUSH (although ok IMO they were the forebearer to Nickelback, Creed, etc)
    SMASH MOUTH
    SUGAR RAY
    BLINK 182
    CHUMBAWAMBA
    THIRD EYE BLIND
    KORN
    LIMP BIZKIT

    These are the rock bands that were popular when PEARL JAM lost their popularity during the mid to late 90s. I think we need to look at the EXTERNAL part of the equation here. Of course PJ didn't follow this horrific trend of shit music. Thats the only way they would have stayed popular, but this band has prinicpalities and shit.

    Just my 2 cents...
    Everything not forbidden is compulsory and eveything not compulsory is forbidden. You are free... free to do what the government says you can do.
  • indifferentmanindifferentman Goshen, IN Posts: 731
    I agree, Vitalogy was the beginning of PJ’s fall out of the limelight. I also think it was a conscious choice too. They stopped making videos, fought ticket master, shunned the media, and put out a record with some very WEIRD songs on it. Hell, I shrugged them off too. After the Grammy Awards stunt (“This award means nothing to us”) and so forth, they stopped being an accessible band to most people, and they shut out attention purposely. Granted Better man, Corduroy, Immortality, Whipping, etc. were good, but Bugs, Foxymop, Aye Davita, Tremor Christ, etc. were fucking WEIRD! I don’t know if they purposely “sabotaged” themselves with Vitalogy or No Code, but they clearly didn’t try to “make people happy” by writing songs that people expected them to. I think the time in history contributed a lot to it too. In 96-97 rock music was fucking DEAD. Nothing new was coming out, grunge was dying, Alternative Nation and Head bangers Ball were no more, and Rap was exploding. I remember back then thinking “Damn it, just give me some new traditional ROCK to listen too!” What did we get, this Nu-metal bullshit and Korn, Kid Rock, Linkin Park, Nickleback, Creed *shudders*, Puddle of Mudd, etc. Suddenly we got some “ROCK” back in post 2000, but it hasn’t really been much.

    As a 15 yr. old kid back then I was mostly still listening to the crap that spilled out of MTV, I didn’t want bother to follow Pearl Jam anymore because they just weren’t talked about anymore. No Code came and went, I thought about buying it, then passed on it. I didn’t want to bother with something I heard nothing about. I continued to listen to Ten and Vs. A LOT, but I didn’t really fall back into appreciating the band until AFTER Yield. A new friend of mine at the time in 99 told me I really WAS missing out, and I came back into the fold again. I’ve been a diehard since, but at that period in time Pearl Jam didn’t give the average person much incentive to listen.

    I think that decision to step away from the spotlight is what really formed the TRUE fan base since. Chances are, if you’ve FOUND Pearl Jam in the last 8 years and you continue to enjoy their music, it’s because you appreciate the growth and the changing direction they have taken with their music. If you picked up Binural or Riot Act out of curiosity, you tossed it soon after because you thought “this doesn’t sound like Jeremy…..” I think the music sort of polarizes people. It’s US (10C members) vs. THEM ( “Ten fans”). I also feel much of the music has its own sort of “message”, and if you were looking for something to mosh too, a song like Wish List would bore you.

    I think if Pearl Jam had continued to face the pressure and expectations, they would’ve burnt out. We wouldn’t be fighting tooth and nail for fan club tickets today, we’d be wondering why Vedder and most of the boys became recluses who never bothered to continue their career (Kirst Novoselic, Kim Thayil, what happened?!) Besides, do you honestly think that Pearl Jam should be kickin’ it with Fall Out Boy and Sum 41 on the Warped Tour? Would American Idol have a day for them? Would they do a guest appearance on The OC? Would they go on the Honda Summer Tour? Pearl Jam just simply isn’t as marketable anymore, and with the age of the band members, nor would I expect them to be in the same way. I’d rather have them be what they are now, a gifted band that has the freedom to do what they want to, and an appreciative fan base that would follow them anywhere.
    I won't change direction, and I won't change my mind - E.V.
    ____________________________
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  • spinDrAtlspinDrAtl Posts: 109
    I'd like to see Pearl Jam night on American Idol. After all, they just had Dolly Parton night. Fair is fair, right?
    So this is what it's like to be an adult.

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  • Hey!
    This is not the bathroom!

    Eh? did i miss something? it's the bar scene in singles...?
    It's an art to live with pain...mix the light into grey..

    9.28.96, 9.8.98, 8.24.00, 8.27.00, 8.29.00, 7.2.03, 7.3.03, 7.9.03, 7.11.03, 9.28.04, 5.1.06, 5.13.06, 5.31.06, 6.1.06, 6.3.06, 6.24.08, 6.25.08, 6.27.08, 6.28.08, 6.30.08
  • SOLAT319 wrote:
    When the gas in my tank
    Feels like money in the bank

    Just for those two lines alone, that song kicks so much ass and that's exactly how I feel living in Bay Area!!

    I dig that song, don't care what anyone says! Avocado maaaaaay be my favorite album. I'll embark on my journey of listening to all their releases in order over the next week & will be able to come to a decision, hopefully, before June 24.

    wow...thank god work is slow.
    It's an art to live with pain...mix the light into grey..

    9.28.96, 9.8.98, 8.24.00, 8.27.00, 8.29.00, 7.2.03, 7.3.03, 7.9.03, 7.11.03, 9.28.04, 5.1.06, 5.13.06, 5.31.06, 6.1.06, 6.3.06, 6.24.08, 6.25.08, 6.27.08, 6.28.08, 6.30.08
  • FinsburyParkCarrotsFinsburyParkCarrots Seattle, WA Posts: 12,223
    I'll tell you when it happened in the UK, anyway. Spin the Black Circle/Tremor Christ charted well here in the UK (#10 I think). But Not For You barely made the top 40. In between? New Years' 1995 heralded the ascendancy of Britpop, which the media promptly seized upon. Never underestimate the power the media used to have, before the Internet really took off, in dictating public opinion and tastes.
  • eldarion75 wrote:
    ' History of the Downfall of PJ in Popular Culture'

    i can sum that whole thing up in one neat little word.

    Avacado.
    Perhaps I am stupid, but I would say Avacado actually brought about a renewed spot in pop culture for PJ in some ways....for better or worse you can hardly pick up a issue of Rolling Stone without some mention of PJ/ED in it where there was never a mention before and they were on storytellers. It just seems to me that the band has sort of embraced their standing among the elder statesmen of post-80s music thus making the name more recognizable to folks who did not know or give a rats ass about them before....large numbers of people may not care or buy their albums to this day but all I'm saying is that they definitely still have a place in pop culture. Avacado, in my opinion, is a damn good album and certainly was not the cause of any fall from grace in the pop culture world.

    That said, the history as laid forth by the original poster sounds pretty much right to me. I absolutely loved Vitalogy -- its probably my favorite album to date
    All I have to do is revel in the everyday....then do it again tomorrow

    They say every sin is deadly but I believe they may be wrong...I'm guilty of all seven and I don't feel too bad at all
  • ajedigeckoajedigecko \m/deplorable af \m/ Posts: 2,430
    i began to think more about this thread, while riding my bike to work. i believe pj actually became a "timeless" band when most thought of them as being done.
    with the release of vitalogy.....they were free to create any style of music.
    live and let live...unless it violates the pearligious doctrine.
  • I like that line of thinking. They were the biggest band in the world when vitalogy was released, so they were able to shuck that title and do whatever the hell they wanted to after that and step out of the spotlight at the same time. PJ, I believe, could be regarded as highly as U2 at this point, but that wasn't for them and it was largely -- although not totally -- of their own choosing
    All I have to do is revel in the everyday....then do it again tomorrow

    They say every sin is deadly but I believe they may be wrong...I'm guilty of all seven and I don't feel too bad at all
  • kh65kh65 Posts: 946
    Downfall, what downfall? PJ will live FOREVER!!!
    "If you're not living on the edge you're taking up too much room."

    Gambling=a taxation on stupidity.

    Remember, you can walk anywhere, as long as you have the time.

    http://www.ryanmontbleauband.com/

    http://www.myspace.com/jessedee
  • Gremmie95Gremmie95 Posts: 749
    ajedigecko wrote:
    i began to think more about this thread, while riding my bike to work. i believe pj actually became a "timeless" band when most thought of them as being done.
    with the release of vitalogy.....they were free to create any style of music.

    I'd buy that for a dollar
  • Is it really a "downfall" if they did it on purpose?

    I think they are right where they want to be.
  • Niko80Niko80 Posts: 1,601
    As far as Im concerned, the downfall started on Vitalogy, but got a brutal boost when the band decided to make 'who you are' the first single from No Code.

    Im pretty sure most people who bought vitalogy were interested to see where pj was heading. Millions of fans were undoubtly turned off by no code, including me. Luckily, I picked it up a few years later and it grew on me quickly.
    I will swallow poison
  • ajedigeckoajedigecko \m/deplorable af \m/ Posts: 2,430
    Gremmie95 wrote:
    I'd buy that for a dollar
    thank you.....right now i could use a dollar or a euro.
    live and let live...unless it violates the pearligious doctrine.
  • simplemansimpleman Posts: 425
    two words........ Matt Cameron.























    just busting balls of course. Grunge was a quick, get it out of your system genre. Pearl Jam never left Pop Culture, most of their fans just moved on.....
    " Jump from a cliff to fly, not to fall..."
  • This is a great discussion.

    I think just about everyone on here has a valid point to make.

    I think the number of responses proves something… that it probably wasn’t one single thing (an album, the rise of boy bands and/or rap-metal, etc, etc) that caused PJ’s status as the “biggest band on earth” to be diminished.

    I have even another theory for everyone… in the form of two more reasons

    1 – the actual fans, their growth and change
    2 – the internet

    I think PJ’s popularity over the years has had a lot to do with the individual evolutions of the fans.

    I’m certain there are folks on here who can say they have been a rabid fan since the moment they first heard Ten and have never wavered in their enthusiasm for a second.

    But… I believe the majority of people’s “fandom” is more like my own:
    I was a freshman in high school when Ten hit. PJ (and to an extent Nirvana, the whole sound) was like nothing me and my friends had ever heard. It changed the game. We were high schoolers… it defined us. We had time and energy to burn on being fans.

    As I got into college… I started listening to a lot more bands.

    ALSO (and this is really important to remember) this is about the time when everyone got an email account and internet access.

    When Ten came out… there really was no widespread internet use. Most people listened to what was on the radio… because that was all there was for the casual listener.

    In the late 90’s… everyone had email… everyone had access to the internet and had access to a much wider variety of music. Because of this… I started listening… and being a fan of a LOT more bands.

    So… as I grew up and graduated from college… my listening habits expanded and changed.

    I still loved PJ… but was not the same rabid fan I was in high school. I bought the albums, etc. I saw them when they came to town a couple of times. But – I wasn’t the same fan I was when it all started for PJ.

    Around 2003… I sort of “rediscovered” PJ. My tastes had grown up or changed a little bit and I found songs and albums (no code, yield) that I had liked before… but not necessarily really appreciated. The second time around... they hit me in the right place at the right time.

    I guess what I am saying is… Ten was the right music for me at the right time.

    Some of the bands other albums were not the exact kind of match for where I was in my life. I couldn’t “get there” with them.

    Only a bit later would I discover them.

    I think a lot of folks would say they discovered or rediscovered their rabid fan-ness after the fact.

    Okay… end of way too long post.
  • hinks13hinks13 Posts: 6
    I love thinking back to the early PJ years. I was finishing the 1st semester of my freshman year in college when Vitalogy was released. PJ was the most hyped band at that time and it seemed like they could do no wrong. They seemed to be everyone favorite's band and it was cool to listen to them. I actually remember that the local rock radio station played a bunch of songs off of Vitalogy before the album was released and Tremor Christ, of all songs, was the most requested song on that station that week.

    From what I recall, the casual PJ fan enjoyed Corduroy, Betterman, Nothingman, Not For You, Whipping, Immortality, etc. However, they just didn't understand Pry to, bugs, aye davanita and, of course, hey foxy. I remember trying to explain that those songs were not meant to be "radio songs" but most people just thought it was wierd and that made them dislike the album. It was the first time I can recall any casual fan actually saying negative things about PJ.

    My theory is that with most everything in pop culture, people get tired of what is popular and things become uncool quickly. For instance, tight rolling your jeans was huge when I was in middle/high school but was seriously uncool by the time I went to college. Also, many sports fans hate the Yankees and Duke because success eventually gets tiresome and a backlash ensuses. The same thing happened to PJ. Success breeds contempt.

    Moreover, PJ really hurt themselves in that they hardly toured in support of Vitalogy. PJ was the biggest band in the world, yet nobody could see them live. Especially when tix, for the few shows they did play, were so freaking hard to get. With no videos, no shows, no "normal" singles (ie Corduroy, Betterman) and a somewhat wierd album, the PJ backlash was on. Alot of casual fans felt that PJ was no longer about the music.

    The final straw came when PJ released "Who You Are" as the first single from No Code. Casual fans had already begun to jump ship and many just didn't like this song b/c it was a departure from standard PJ. They wanted Jeremy Part 2 or another Black, not some eastern tinged slow song. Many radio stations hated "Who You Are" and refused to play it and I remember many DJs saying on air that they didn't understand PJ's shift in sound. I think if PJ had released "Hail, Hail" as the first single, they would've kept more fans, but the damage was done. I would imagine that the casual fan didn't buy No Code because they assumed that the entire album sounded like "Who You Are". Whereas it was once cool to dig PJ, it was now cooler to say PJ sucked.

    I love Yield and think its a great album, but by 1998, grunge was dead and it wouldn't have matter if PJ had released Ten 2. The entire landscape of music shifted to the diva, boy bands and manufactured bands/songs. Rock was nearly dead. Eddie imitators were everywhere as was awful music in general. Times change and it would have been impossible for PJ to dominate the music scene forever as they did in 1992-1995.

    That being said, PJ is still a hugely popular band, at least in Philly area. They are all over the radio and MMR even has the Ten Spot every week night. They always sell out 2 shows here every tour and many casual fans can't wait to see PJ live. This 17 years after Ten was released. So, although PJ doesn't sell 10 million records anymore, they are still a huge part of rock music. I'm sure the band is beyond thrilled with that. I know I am.
  • UKpearljammerUKpearljammer Bath, UK Posts: 910
    I'll tell you when it happened in the UK, anyway. Spin the Black Circle/Tremor Christ charted well here in the UK (#10 I think). But Not For You barely made the top 40. In between? New Years' 1995 heralded the ascendancy of Britpop, which the media promptly seized upon. Never underestimate the power the media used to have, before the Internet really took off, in dictating public opinion and tastes.

    It's a good point about Britpop and the media as far as the UK goes but I'd suggest it was before NYE 95, more like when KC was found on 8/4/94 and the media pronounced Grunge to be dead.
    My PJ shows:
    London 28/10/96, Las Vegas 11/7/98, London 29/5/00, Nurnburg 11/6/00, Prague 14/6/00, Salzburg 18/6/00, Verona 20/6/00, Milan 22/6/00, Zurich 23/6/00, New York 8-9/7/03, Boston 11/7/03, Reading Festival 27/8/06, Shepards Bush 11/8/09, Berlin 15/8/09, Manchester 17/8/09, London 18/8/09, Dublin 22/6/10, Belfast 23/6/10, London (HRC) 25/6/10, Alpine Valley (PJ20) 3-4/9/11, Manchester 20-21/6/12, Leeds 8/7/14, Milton Keynes 11/7/14 To be continued....
  • Dan O'Dan O' Posts: 18
    fuck pop culture

    why must we trust
    these rusted rails
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