History of the Downfall of PJ in Popular Culture

DriftingByTheStorm

Steve Dunne wrote:

IMHO 'Who You Are' released as the first single off of 'No Code' was the final exclamation point (in the 90's) in seeing who was with Pearl Jam and who was not. Even dj's were saying 'WTF' when that came out.

Agreed.
You don't put out a song that starts with 20 seconds of down tempo tribal drumming fading in follwed by 5 seconds of dissonant piano chord banging and then a weird eastern song with goofy lyrics as your pre-album radio single if you are intending to GAIN a fanbase.



While i think there were way more than just one factor contributing to the slide in PJs popularity (TM\tour issues, no videos, less mainstream singles on vitalogy, no press) the lack of publicity and the blatant choice of a "bad" first single were nail through the coffin attempts by PJ to thwart the masses.

I love No Code and Who You Are specificaly,
but lets refresh our memories with the other albums that came out in the newly "post-grunge" era of 1996:

Early Mornin' Stoned Pimp - Kid Rock
The Score - The Fugees
Evil Empire - Rage Against the Machine
Fairweather Johnson - Hootie & the Blowfish
Bringing Down the Horse - The Wallflowers
Down on the Upside - Soundgarden
Load - Metallica
Rocket - Primitive Radio Gods
Blue - LeeAnn Rimes
Three Snakes and One Charm - The Black Crowes
Tidal - Fiona Apple
Sublime - Sublime
Friction, Baby - Better Than Ezra
First Band on the Moon - The Cardigans
New Adventures in Hi-Fi - R.E.M.
Fashion Nugget - Cake
White Light, White Heat, White Trash - Social Distortion
Better Living Through Chemistry - Fatboy Slim
Ænima - Tool
Yourself or Someone Like You - Matchbox Twenty
Antichrist Superstar - Marilyn Manson
Life Is Peachy - Korn
Recovering the Satellites - Counting Crows

NOW
Squint your eyes,
stare at that list of albums
and conjure up memories about how many times and how much you heard about each and everyone of those artists -- on MTV, in Rolling Stone, all over the radio airwaves ...

now think, "No Code", and "pearl jam" and see what you come up with for 1996.


Kinda makes it a little more clear, right?

I do NOT think "No Code" was put out as a "bad" album, or anything of the sort. I think it is one of their strongest albums, personaly. But it CERTAINLY was not music for the mainstream in 1996, and god knows Who You Are was the most deliberately "sabotaged" single they possibly ever released.

:cool:

muppet

It's funny though, Who You Are went to number 1 on the rock charts. Whether that's 'cos Pearl Jam already had a massive 'built in' fanbase or becuase it was just a catchy (in an odd kind of way) single is difficult to determine, although I'd go with the former.

And what about Yield? That didn't go to Number 1 and didn't sell as much as the first three albums. But it certinally seemed to be more 'accessible' than No Code. Wasn't "Given To Fly" a Top 20 single on the Billboard charts? And that's without a music video.

This is something I've always wondered about, and I'm sort of glad that it's not true, but I wonder how Pearl Jam would be regarded now if they had played "the game" back in the early 90s, i.e. conventional promotion through music videos and the like, and touring with Ticketmaster. I don't think it's that far out to say that a song like "Betterman" with an effective video could have had the same success as the Chillis "Under The Bridge" or something like that.

josevolution

eldarion75 wrote:

' History of the Downfall of PJ in Popular Culture'

i can sum that whole thing up in one neat little word.

Avacado.

IT'S AVOCADO ...genius

gozzo5058

whatever....who cares about the past...the future is the new tour...

Ledbetterdays

My story on this if you care to read it...

I guess what I remember is being really desperate for some Pearl Jam after Vitalogy. It seemed like a long time and I know Ed had writer's block during Vitalogy and the band almost broke up a couple of times and the non-Ticketmaster tour was a disaster. Basically you could not go see the biggest band in the world--it was too hard.

I was not that into the live shows yet at that point but found Soldier Field bootleg and I think that kinda permanently attached me to the band. I also had no idea Mirrorball was PJ without Ed until about 1999. I did have Merkinball and played the life outta that until No Code arrived. We did stand in line for No Code but it was a shorter line at midnight than it had been for Vitalogy and certainly for Vs. I knew Who You Are would throw some people off but I liked it. I also had already heard Habit and thought it sounded great live along with Lukin but Habit on No Code sounds terrible to me. Anyway, I just remember feeling it slipping away between 1995 and 1996.

A lot of people have said that if Yield would have come out before No Code they would have held on for longer and I agree. I think in the modern era the lack of a household name single or a standout album is the main issue combined with ignoring the entire south in the US. That combined with no airplay except for when a new single comes out and those singles did not endear them to anyone but the existing fanbase.

People will say PJ is fan friendly and I guess if you meet them in person they are, but I see what other bands do for their fans and sometimes I think PJ just gets a pass because of who they are. There are times where I feel alienated as a 12 year member of the fan club because of the cost of things or the lack of love for the south. It has a toll. You used to get an entire tour announced at one time. You used to get bootlegs for free when it was a trading community. Those days are long gone.

michaeljamesmccabe

This thread degenerated quickly! Some real tangents branching off of this one!

I think the original post is interesting, but ultimately misses the point.

First and foremost, you need to focus on “Popular Culture” and the who/what/why/how that determines it. After you understand that, it should be obvious that Pearl Jam have never strived to be a part of it, and did not want to be a part of it when it was presented to them. If you don’t play “the game” with all of the corporate entities and groups that control your promotion/publicity/news coverage, then that huge machine will move on to something else. That’s what happened between Pearl Jam and Popular Culture.

Secondly, it’s important to highlight the fact that the music did not suffer. In my opinion, it got much MUCH better. Any connection with MTV stuff dropped off the map, and they didn’t do many interviews or make any huge media waves anywhere else. They just made great music, and tried to avoid anything that felt like selling out or buying into the whole “pop culture/rock star” thing.


You can’t measure how good an album is by the number of copies it sold. This is an old argument that a lot of people disagree on. But, in my opinion, a good album is a good album. You can hand any Pearl Jam album to some 15 year old kid in the Philippines that is into music, and they’ll listen to it and come back and tell you that they love it. It’s really that simple.

The band was busy trying to fight their way out of the machine during the proposed drop off period. Again, if they would’ve embraced all of the attention they were getting, and started to feed into that system, both “Vitalogy” and “No Code” would’ve been even bigger pop culture phenomenons than “Ten” and “Vs.” were. I honestly feel that both of those albums are incredibly strong. The band wasn’t willing to play the game, and the game packed up and moved onto something else.

In the end (now), the band has been rewarded for it. They have been able to maintain and grow a HUGE worldwide base of fans that “get it”, and they can sell out any arena in any country on the planet.

Some thoughts on tangent within this thread:

“Vitalogy” –
This is a tremendous album that is actually meant to be listened to all the way through. At that time, most fans were falling in love with the “>” button on their CD player remotes. It’s too bad that they missed out on 50+ minutes of great listening. Some great little touches and odd moments make this something worth committing an hour too.

“No Code” –
This album should be considered among Pearl Jam’s best overall efforts. Mind-blowingly spectacular in terms of music, lyrics, and artistry.

Bill Simmons is entitled to his opinions about his “favorite band”. While he’s very informed (down to minute details) about numerous sports topics, his level of knowledge in regard to Pearl Jam is spotty at best. I mean, “Spin the Black Circle” won a Grammy for Best Hard Rock Performance. But whatever, to each their own. It’s cool that he mentions the band from time-to-time.

blondieblue227

has anybody mentioned marketing?
it seems pj was never really big on marketing.

TheGossman

you also forget to mention that even though they toured in 93/94, lots of fans were still unable to see the band live. They were the biggest rock band in the world but yet they were playing 4,000 seat theatres when they could have been playing to packed 20,000 seat arena's everynight, plus the ticketmaster issue didn't help.

TheGossman

PearlJamPatriot wrote:

Nothing As It Seems was a fucking terrible 1st release as well.

I agree, amazing song, but not a radio friendly tune, they were better off releasing Breakerfall or insignificance

Taft

michaeljamesmccabe wrote:

This thread degenerated quickly! Some real tangents branching off of this one!

I think the original post is interesting, but ultimately misses the point.

You can’t measure how good an album is by the number of copies it sold. This is an old argument that a lot of people disagree on. But, in my opinion, a good album is a good album. You can hand any Pearl Jam album to some 15 year old kid in the Philippines that is into music, and they’ll listen to it and come back and tell you that they love it. It’s really that simple.

I am not sure if your post is one of those tangents you speak of. But I want to be clear, the above was NOT my point.

I am not suggesting that record sales have anything to do with the quality of the music, I am saying that the music and Pearl Jam took a turn with Vitalogy that the masses were not willing to take...

michaeljamesmccabe

Taft wrote:

I am not sure if your post is one of those tangents you speak of. But I want to be clear, the above was NOT my point.

I am not suggesting that record sales have anything to do with the quality of the music, I am saying that the music and Pearl Jam took a turn with Vitalogy that the masses were not willing to take...

I'm as guilty as anyone for throwing out as many tangents as possible.

I'm saying that no one was telling the masses to take the turn when Vitalogy was released.

Willing or not, the masses would've made the turn if they were told to...and if Pearl Jam played along.

DriftingByTheStorm

blondieblue227 wrote:

has anybody mentioned marketing?
it seems pj was never really big on marketing.

Pearl Jam don't have an image, and that IS their image.
They have no marketing gimmick, and that is their gimmick!

Thats from 5 Against One.

Porchsitter

Completely agree. I recognized this with my friends who loved Vs. and Ten but felt Vitalogy was not that great of an album while the album quickly became (and still is) my favorite PJ albums. No Code only acted as the proverbial "stake in the heart."

TheGossman

PearlJamPatriot wrote:

Also, I think the release of Gone, though not the 1st single, killed any momentum the Avocado album had going. I always thought Severed Hand would have been a great radio release.

Comeback would have been a good choice, as well as MITS, Gone was not

corduroid

I haven't read this entire thread but I agree Vitalogy was the stepping-off point for the masses; this is just basic Pearl Jam 101. Even though it had some beautiful, accessible tunes it was not digestable as a whole to mass audiences like the first two releases. People, even many here today, had/have no interest in Bugs or Foxy Mop, and STBC was just jarringly harsh punk to the singalong crowd.

That, combined with the touring fiasco of 95, pretty much removed them as mainstream darlings. And thank god - the band themselves knew they were in much deeper than they wanted with where things were going after Vs exploded. I'm grateful on a regular basis for the sanity and purity that No Code returned.

Present Tense was their defining moment to me.

TheGossman

I still listen to Vitalogy all the time, and tracks like Spin the Black Circle, Nothingman, Corduroy, and Last exit give me chills, just hearing Ed in his prime giving it all he's got, I'm yet to hear a singer since sing with as much power.

bigshasha

EV also pissed off the music establishment during this period after Vitalogy with his Grammy speech where he said "This doesn't mean anything"

Smarter_Than_U

I agree with the original poster that Vitalogy left a bad taste in many fans' mouths and probably had a carry over effect to overall sales of No Code. Vitalogy was a difficult album for a difficult time (especially for Ed Ved) following Cobain's suicide. But if we are measuring their downfall by popular culture standards then I believe the history of their descent began well before Vitalogy.

Some of you probably recall that on the 92 Lollapalooza tour, they opted to turn down an offer to move into a more headlining spot even though between when they were booked and when the festival launched, they had become one of the biggest bands in the world. They opted to play second (after Lush) and have a 30 minute set. While I assume this didn't cost them any fans, and was a decision based purely on humility, had they played a longer set on what was the biggest show of the summer (back then it was) it would have certainly kept positive momentum going and would have aligned with popular culture norms ("fuck everyone else, this is my time"). This was a clear, early signal that they weren't going to embrace the limelight (probably a red flag if you worked for the record label).

Between Ten and Vs. there was a self-imposed shutout of the media (who can survive in pop culture without the media??). This is also when Ed started to purposefully alienate opinion makers like Kurt Loder (a person you should have been nice to if you wanted to be big then). As Vs. was coming out, the only journalist Ed would do an interview with was Cameron Crowe--everyone else got a big FUCK YOU.

A critical decision was also made by the band during this time, as you all know, to not make videos for the second album (MTV is obvioulsy is a huge part of dictating pop culture trends). While this did not hurt sales of Vs., I would argue that it did begin to erode the corporate infrastructure (MTV, Sony, etc.) that supported their success.

At the end of the Vs. tour, which they refused to accept any corporate money for and went so far as to cover up ads at venues with huge black curtains, Pearl Jam also cancelled a New Year's gig for MTV (due to illness), which if they played it would have meant greater fan exposure and maybe mending fences with the suits at MTV.

While the band's unwillingness to "play the game" during this time made them seem much more appealing from a fan perspective, it was during these formative years of the band that this "negative" behavior (by current pop culture standards; in the early 90s non-conformity was cool) was reinforced and in fact greatly rewarded. They were taught (through massive record sales) that didn't have to sell out to sell a shit load of records.

This sense that they could do whatever the heck they wanted culminated in the release of Vitalogy (to date still one of their most challenging records). Their sense that they could do whatever they wanted (have a silly accordian song about bugs or a 12 minutes schizo song with a child endorsing suicide) ultimately put them way too far out over the edge from pop culture norms. So far out there that their once rabid, adoring fan base began to reject them.

Anyway, I think the original poster does a good job from Vitalogy onward, but I thought it might be interesting to go back a little further to trace what I would consider the COMPLETE history of the downfall, which ironically enough seems to start more or less at the beginning.

openyoureyes

tremor christ was the first single off Vitalogy. Know your info 1st

fall by the wayside

actually it was STBC. Tremor Christ was the b-side. know your info first.