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History of the Downfall of PJ in Popular Culture
(edit: I am adding this disclaimer because many people only read the intro to my post and no further, and assume I give a crap about Pearl Jam's fame and record sales etc...and post something in response. I DON'T CARE about that stuff. I love Vitalogy, I love No Code, I love PJ's place in the rock world. I have literally toured the world with this band, and would not have wanted things to have gone any differently than they have from 1995 to the present as far as Pearl Jam is concerned.
The point of this thread was a response to the misconception that "No Code" was the starting point of the diminished fanbase. Nothing more. Notice I did not say the rabid fanbase diminished!
I am pleasantly surprised by the attention this thread has gotten, mainly because there are some great posts in here, among some bad ones too, thanks!)
This topic stems from the debate on the "Bill Simmons" thread today, which referenced "Binuaral" or more often "No Code" as a fanbase killing album.
People always get this wrong, including most members of this forum.
Vitalogy was the "killing the fan base" album, while most people cite No Code as the downfall in terms of pop culture, because of tepid sales, it was not.
Vitalogy sold a ton copies because PJ was HUGE when it came out, riding momentum from Ten and Vs. They were the biggest band in the world. The fact is, the casual fans did not like Vitalogy at all (outside of Betterman, Not For You, Nothingman and Corduroy).
Spin the Black Circle was the first single, casual fans HATED it. Casual fans hated Last Exit, Bugs, Whipping, Tremor Christ, HeyFoxyMoma, etc...This was also during the time of limited touring and the Ticketmaster issue, which further alienated casual fans.
The key is too look at initial sales (the first week):
1. Vs. was the fastest selling album of all time (rabid, massive fan base);
2. Vitalogy was close behind (rabid, massive fan base still exists);
3. No Code came out and there was a huge drop in sales initially (no longer a massive fan base). This was because of Vitalogy, not because of No Code. It is hard to remember this, but during the time between Vitalogy and No Code was when Pearl Jam lost (intentionally I would argue) its reign as biggest band in the world. Now, No Code's relative inaccessibility to the casual fan, did not help the sales, but it wasn't the cause. If Yield had followed Vitalogy, the band may have regained its popularity, lost by Vitalogy.
Now, I don't really know why I wrote this diatribe, because I could careless about pop culture and PJ's overall popularity and sales. I guess it was because I have seen things written on this many, many times, and I think most people have it wrong.
The point of this thread was a response to the misconception that "No Code" was the starting point of the diminished fanbase. Nothing more. Notice I did not say the rabid fanbase diminished!
I am pleasantly surprised by the attention this thread has gotten, mainly because there are some great posts in here, among some bad ones too, thanks!)
This topic stems from the debate on the "Bill Simmons" thread today, which referenced "Binuaral" or more often "No Code" as a fanbase killing album.
People always get this wrong, including most members of this forum.
Vitalogy was the "killing the fan base" album, while most people cite No Code as the downfall in terms of pop culture, because of tepid sales, it was not.
Vitalogy sold a ton copies because PJ was HUGE when it came out, riding momentum from Ten and Vs. They were the biggest band in the world. The fact is, the casual fans did not like Vitalogy at all (outside of Betterman, Not For You, Nothingman and Corduroy).
Spin the Black Circle was the first single, casual fans HATED it. Casual fans hated Last Exit, Bugs, Whipping, Tremor Christ, HeyFoxyMoma, etc...This was also during the time of limited touring and the Ticketmaster issue, which further alienated casual fans.
The key is too look at initial sales (the first week):
1. Vs. was the fastest selling album of all time (rabid, massive fan base);
2. Vitalogy was close behind (rabid, massive fan base still exists);
3. No Code came out and there was a huge drop in sales initially (no longer a massive fan base). This was because of Vitalogy, not because of No Code. It is hard to remember this, but during the time between Vitalogy and No Code was when Pearl Jam lost (intentionally I would argue) its reign as biggest band in the world. Now, No Code's relative inaccessibility to the casual fan, did not help the sales, but it wasn't the cause. If Yield had followed Vitalogy, the band may have regained its popularity, lost by Vitalogy.
Now, I don't really know why I wrote this diatribe, because I could careless about pop culture and PJ's overall popularity and sales. I guess it was because I have seen things written on this many, many times, and I think most people have it wrong.
Post edited by Unknown User on
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- the great Sir Leo Harrison
it started when they stopped making videos
the touring/TM issue didn't help
but No Code was released w/basically no promo and because it couldn't be scanned for Billboard sales
That's when the 'down fall' as you put it, started.
none of the 'casual fans' of which you speak knew they released the album
that was done intentionally, it wasn't a 'down fall', they, as they have said 'scaled back' to stop being 'the biggest band in the world,'
I don't think it was that they 'fell'
they
stepped off the mountain,
to use your analogy
"Sometimes life should be consumed in measured doses"
6-01-06
6/25/08
Free Speedy
and Metsy!
i can sum that whole thing up in one neat little word.
Avacado.
LOL
- the great Sir Leo Harrison
dont forget the TM battle that occurred just prior to the release of vitaology
they did not tour, bascially taking time off to fight its battle, refused to make videos-that had to contribute to the erosion of its fan base
I think there is more to it than the eccentric nature of Vitalogy. They basically stopped being a band at the height of their popularity, and then put out a mellower, introspective record, when the fan base wanted more "go"
You must not know the 546,000 fans who bought Vitalogy in week one, but did not buy No Code in week one. The fanbase had evaporated resulting from Vitalogy fall out.
To talk about "casual" PJ fans in 2008 is completely irrelevant as to what that the term "casual" fan meant in 1995.
First Week sales:
Vitalogy (912,000 including the 35,000 who bought the vinyl)
No Code (366,000)
I mentioned the TM battle in the original post, it certainly had an impact.
I'm sorry, Mr. High and Mighty Expert. Pat on the back.
- the great Sir Leo Harrison
but it is the first album they put out that had some boner songs on it (pry to, bugs, foxy, aye, betterman (hate it)), while ten and vs were strong through out. so i guess i can see how a few casual fans slipped off the PJ wagon.
it's a shame too, the rest of the album fucking rocks.
No.
riot act.
why am I being shut out of shows for the first tour in 12 years?
Agreed.
However, I don't think No code did anything to win them back, which led to fewer records sales beyond that.
In all honesty though, how many bands actually release over 3 records and continue to see sales increases? especially after the first two sold multi millions. I don't think anybody outside of the pop realm and even within pop it's limited
It's a natural thing. PJ selling over 300k in the first week for S/T is a large amount
So there were four songs that "casual fans" did like and still often mention as the last songs they listened to from PJ? Especially Betterman and Corduroy.
Sounds like a solid argument for No Code being the drop-off album to me.
I'll ride the wave where it takes me...
Good point!
There's a constant ringing in my ears
Sense of humor's void and numb
And I'm bored to tears.......
Nailed it.
I fail to see how you make this connection, sorry.
Jumping the shark in music refers to a musician/band being past it's prime or peak. How that is connected to Ticketmaster is beyond me, maybe you are confusing it with "selling out"... but i'd still have to disagree with you there...
They took TM to court, looking back it was obvious who was going to win. They came to terms with the fact that if they wanted to tour and be accessible to their fan base that they would have to go through Ticketmaster.
jk
Have public tickets gone onsale yet even?
If I had to guess, you're referring to 10C ticket sales and the reason would be this: the hardcore fan base who have stuck with the band now have more money to spend to travel in from all corners of the world to see Pearl Jam in a venue like MSG.
To be fair you need to look at the slower ticket slaes in smaller markets that lack the hype of MSG.
I love PJ as much as anyone but I think too many fans over estimate the band's place in the modern rock world.
<a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/jmgphotos/4731512142/" title="PJ Banner2 by Mister J Photography, on Flickr"><img src="http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1135/4731512142_258f2d6ab4_b.jpg" width="630" height="112" alt="PJ Banner2" /></a>
nope, and the reason why you are wrong is because pj fought a good fight, but lost. they do sales with TM because they have to. They literaly have no choice.
not that i care.