Voter ID

mace1229

PJ_Soul said:

mace1229 said:

PJ_Soul said:

gimmesometruth27 said:

Ledbetterman10 said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

Tim Simmons said:

mace1229 said:

gimmesometruth27 said:

mace1229 said:

Tim Simmons said:

tempo_n_groove said:

Tim Simmons said:

tempo_n_groove said:

Tim Simmons said:

Basically voting works just fine and up you are a dummy if you think otherwise. 

I have read so many voter fraud takes that I agree it seems so minute if it does happen.

I wouldn't mind the ID/citizenship showing for voting just so I never have to hear about this being an issue ever again.

As long as they can get everyone who needs an ID one at no cost, with no hoops and the easiest of effort, I’m fine with it too. 

In this day and age there are people struggling to get an ID but have the ability to go out and vote?

Call me living under a rock if that is a thing.

It’s not easy to go out and vote either. we should be making it as easy as possible for everybody who wants to do it,  not adding more hurdles that will make it difficult for people. 

Between early voting, absentee ballots, multiple voting locations, and polls being open 12 hours, if you didn't vote previously it's because you didn't want to.

this is a very black and white way of looking at it. doesn't take into account if that save law passes, if you do not have a passport you can't vote. does not take into account the need for a birth certificate to get proper id. does not take into account that a married woman would have to get special documentation since their married name does not match their birth certificate, does not take into account the purposeful reduction in the amount of voting machines in the poor community forcing long lines and people having to potentially take off a full day of work. does not take into account trump trying to outlaw vote by mail. 

voting should be free and easy for all citizens. 

the problem is not with "voter fraud". it is with republicans deliberately trying to disenfranchise groups that vote democratic.

 nobody is struggling to get a basic ID and who is willing and able to go out and vote.

I don't think you can say this with any level of certainty.

it's absolutely false. there are so many barriers for poor people obtaining one. it's absurd to claim nobody has this barrier. LOTS do. 

If this is true, shouldn’t the goal be to get these people IDs rather than allowing them to vote without one? Here’s a list of a few things you need an ID to do…..

1) Drive a car
2) Get a job
3) Open a bank account/apply for a credit card
4) Buy a home/rent an apartment 
5) Vote

Of all the else things, voting is by far the least important. Yet I never hear democrats talk about helping people that don’t have IDs to get IDs. Because if they solved that problem (if it is in fact a problem), then there’d be no reason to be against voter IDs. And we know they don’t want that. 

again you do not need an id to get a credit card. i just got one 3 months ago. 

And I have never been asked for ID to rent a home. I just fill in some paperwork. 

As far as the credit card and renting, don't they ask for some sort of financial documentation, like bank statements? And you need an ID to get a checking account. It been 14 years since I rented my last apartment, but I remember submitting all sorts of paperwork and getting a background and credit check. Maybe they didn't ask for my ID directly, but I wouldn't have had those other things without one. 
If it was that easy to just open a credit card, the fraud would be much more rampant. They want to make sure you are who you say you are, by requiring documents that prove it. Maybe directly or indirectly require an ID. If you open a CC through your bank, they already have all that info. So just depends on where and who you open it with as far as what they'll need.

You seem unaware of how totally loose the credit card companies are with giving people credit, lol. 

Well, I only have 2 credit cards, and opened the last one almost 15 years ago. So maybe I am. But I am pretty sure they asked for financial statements then. I am a little surprised if they don't anymore, unless its tied to something you already have a relationship with (like your bank).

mace1229

mickeyrat said:

mace1229 said:

PJ_Soul said:

gimmesometruth27 said:

Ledbetterman10 said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

Tim Simmons said:

mace1229 said:

gimmesometruth27 said:

mace1229 said:

Tim Simmons said:

tempo_n_groove said:

Tim Simmons said:

tempo_n_groove said:

Tim Simmons said:

Basically voting works just fine and up you are a dummy if you think otherwise. 

I have read so many voter fraud takes that I agree it seems so minute if it does happen.

I wouldn't mind the ID/citizenship showing for voting just so I never have to hear about this being an issue ever again.

As long as they can get everyone who needs an ID one at no cost, with no hoops and the easiest of effort, I’m fine with it too. 

In this day and age there are people struggling to get an ID but have the ability to go out and vote?

Call me living under a rock if that is a thing.

It’s not easy to go out and vote either. we should be making it as easy as possible for everybody who wants to do it,  not adding more hurdles that will make it difficult for people. 

Between early voting, absentee ballots, multiple voting locations, and polls being open 12 hours, if you didn't vote previously it's because you didn't want to.

this is a very black and white way of looking at it. doesn't take into account if that save law passes, if you do not have a passport you can't vote. does not take into account the need for a birth certificate to get proper id. does not take into account that a married woman would have to get special documentation since their married name does not match their birth certificate, does not take into account the purposeful reduction in the amount of voting machines in the poor community forcing long lines and people having to potentially take off a full day of work. does not take into account trump trying to outlaw vote by mail. 

voting should be free and easy for all citizens. 

the problem is not with "voter fraud". it is with republicans deliberately trying to disenfranchise groups that vote democratic.

 nobody is struggling to get a basic ID and who is willing and able to go out and vote.

I don't think you can say this with any level of certainty.

it's absolutely false. there are so many barriers for poor people obtaining one. it's absurd to claim nobody has this barrier. LOTS do. 

If this is true, shouldn’t the goal be to get these people IDs rather than allowing them to vote without one? Here’s a list of a few things you need an ID to do…..

1) Drive a car
2) Get a job
3) Open a bank account/apply for a credit card
4) Buy a home/rent an apartment 
5) Vote

Of all the else things, voting is by far the least important. Yet I never hear democrats talk about helping people that don’t have IDs to get IDs. Because if they solved that problem (if it is in fact a problem), then there’d be no reason to be against voter IDs. And we know they don’t want that. 

again you do not need an id to get a credit card. i just got one 3 months ago. 

And I have never been asked for ID to rent a home. I just fill in some paperwork. 

As far as the credit card and renting, don't they ask for some sort of financial documentation, like bank statements? And you need an ID to get a checking account. It been 14 years since I rented my last apartment, but I remember submitting all sorts of paperwork and getting a background and credit check. Maybe they didn't ask for my ID directly, but I wouldn't have had those other things without one. 
If it was that easy to just open a credit card, the fraud would be much more rampant. They want to make sure you are who you say you are, by requiring documents that prove it. Maybe directly or indirectly require an ID. If you open a CC through your bank, they already have all that info. So just depends on where and who you open it with as far as what they'll need.

explain to me then why its do easy for identity thieves to destroy someones life without an id?

Don't they need other identifying factors, like SSN and your mother's maiden name, etc. to open an account in your name? Things that are intended as secondary IDs. I can't just claim to be Eddie Vedder and open a credit card in his name and start shopping. 

Gern Blansten

mace1229 said:

PJ_Soul said:

mace1229 said:

PJ_Soul said:

gimmesometruth27 said:

Ledbetterman10 said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

Tim Simmons said:

mace1229 said:

gimmesometruth27 said:

mace1229 said:

Tim Simmons said:

tempo_n_groove said:

Tim Simmons said:

tempo_n_groove said:

Tim Simmons said:

Basically voting works just fine and up you are a dummy if you think otherwise. 

I have read so many voter fraud takes that I agree it seems so minute if it does happen.

I wouldn't mind the ID/citizenship showing for voting just so I never have to hear about this being an issue ever again.

As long as they can get everyone who needs an ID one at no cost, with no hoops and the easiest of effort, I’m fine with it too. 

In this day and age there are people struggling to get an ID but have the ability to go out and vote?

Call me living under a rock if that is a thing.

It’s not easy to go out and vote either. we should be making it as easy as possible for everybody who wants to do it,  not adding more hurdles that will make it difficult for people. 

Between early voting, absentee ballots, multiple voting locations, and polls being open 12 hours, if you didn't vote previously it's because you didn't want to.

this is a very black and white way of looking at it. doesn't take into account if that save law passes, if you do not have a passport you can't vote. does not take into account the need for a birth certificate to get proper id. does not take into account that a married woman would have to get special documentation since their married name does not match their birth certificate, does not take into account the purposeful reduction in the amount of voting machines in the poor community forcing long lines and people having to potentially take off a full day of work. does not take into account trump trying to outlaw vote by mail. 

voting should be free and easy for all citizens. 

the problem is not with "voter fraud". it is with republicans deliberately trying to disenfranchise groups that vote democratic.

 nobody is struggling to get a basic ID and who is willing and able to go out and vote.

I don't think you can say this with any level of certainty.

it's absolutely false. there are so many barriers for poor people obtaining one. it's absurd to claim nobody has this barrier. LOTS do. 

If this is true, shouldn’t the goal be to get these people IDs rather than allowing them to vote without one? Here’s a list of a few things you need an ID to do…..

1) Drive a car
2) Get a job
3) Open a bank account/apply for a credit card
4) Buy a home/rent an apartment 
5) Vote

Of all the else things, voting is by far the least important. Yet I never hear democrats talk about helping people that don’t have IDs to get IDs. Because if they solved that problem (if it is in fact a problem), then there’d be no reason to be against voter IDs. And we know they don’t want that. 

again you do not need an id to get a credit card. i just got one 3 months ago. 

And I have never been asked for ID to rent a home. I just fill in some paperwork. 

As far as the credit card and renting, don't they ask for some sort of financial documentation, like bank statements? And you need an ID to get a checking account. It been 14 years since I rented my last apartment, but I remember submitting all sorts of paperwork and getting a background and credit check. Maybe they didn't ask for my ID directly, but I wouldn't have had those other things without one. 
If it was that easy to just open a credit card, the fraud would be much more rampant. They want to make sure you are who you say you are, by requiring documents that prove it. Maybe directly or indirectly require an ID. If you open a CC through your bank, they already have all that info. So just depends on where and who you open it with as far as what they'll need.

You seem unaware of how totally loose the credit card companies are with giving people credit, lol. 

Well, I only have 2 credit cards, and opened the last one almost 15 years ago. So maybe I am. But I am pretty sure they asked for financial statements then. I am a little surprised if they don't anymore, unless its tied to something you already have a relationship with (like your bank).

they look up your credit score...that's all they need (using your SSN)

mace1229

Gern Blansten said:

mace1229 said:

PJ_Soul said:

mace1229 said:

PJ_Soul said:

gimmesometruth27 said:

Ledbetterman10 said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

Tim Simmons said:

mace1229 said:

gimmesometruth27 said:

mace1229 said:

Tim Simmons said:

tempo_n_groove said:

Tim Simmons said:

tempo_n_groove said:

Tim Simmons said:

Basically voting works just fine and up you are a dummy if you think otherwise. 

I have read so many voter fraud takes that I agree it seems so minute if it does happen.

I wouldn't mind the ID/citizenship showing for voting just so I never have to hear about this being an issue ever again.

As long as they can get everyone who needs an ID one at no cost, with no hoops and the easiest of effort, I’m fine with it too. 

In this day and age there are people struggling to get an ID but have the ability to go out and vote?

Call me living under a rock if that is a thing.

It’s not easy to go out and vote either. we should be making it as easy as possible for everybody who wants to do it,  not adding more hurdles that will make it difficult for people. 

Between early voting, absentee ballots, multiple voting locations, and polls being open 12 hours, if you didn't vote previously it's because you didn't want to.

this is a very black and white way of looking at it. doesn't take into account if that save law passes, if you do not have a passport you can't vote. does not take into account the need for a birth certificate to get proper id. does not take into account that a married woman would have to get special documentation since their married name does not match their birth certificate, does not take into account the purposeful reduction in the amount of voting machines in the poor community forcing long lines and people having to potentially take off a full day of work. does not take into account trump trying to outlaw vote by mail. 

voting should be free and easy for all citizens. 

the problem is not with "voter fraud". it is with republicans deliberately trying to disenfranchise groups that vote democratic.

 nobody is struggling to get a basic ID and who is willing and able to go out and vote.

I don't think you can say this with any level of certainty.

it's absolutely false. there are so many barriers for poor people obtaining one. it's absurd to claim nobody has this barrier. LOTS do. 

If this is true, shouldn’t the goal be to get these people IDs rather than allowing them to vote without one? Here’s a list of a few things you need an ID to do…..

1) Drive a car
2) Get a job
3) Open a bank account/apply for a credit card
4) Buy a home/rent an apartment 
5) Vote

Of all the else things, voting is by far the least important. Yet I never hear democrats talk about helping people that don’t have IDs to get IDs. Because if they solved that problem (if it is in fact a problem), then there’d be no reason to be against voter IDs. And we know they don’t want that. 

again you do not need an id to get a credit card. i just got one 3 months ago. 

And I have never been asked for ID to rent a home. I just fill in some paperwork. 

As far as the credit card and renting, don't they ask for some sort of financial documentation, like bank statements? And you need an ID to get a checking account. It been 14 years since I rented my last apartment, but I remember submitting all sorts of paperwork and getting a background and credit check. Maybe they didn't ask for my ID directly, but I wouldn't have had those other things without one. 
If it was that easy to just open a credit card, the fraud would be much more rampant. They want to make sure you are who you say you are, by requiring documents that prove it. Maybe directly or indirectly require an ID. If you open a CC through your bank, they already have all that info. So just depends on where and who you open it with as far as what they'll need.

You seem unaware of how totally loose the credit card companies are with giving people credit, lol. 

Well, I only have 2 credit cards, and opened the last one almost 15 years ago. So maybe I am. But I am pretty sure they asked for financial statements then. I am a little surprised if they don't anymore, unless its tied to something you already have a relationship with (like your bank).

they look up your credit score...that's all they need (using your SSN)

Even then, going full circle back as to who doesn't have an ID. If you know your SSN and can have access to get credit cards, I don't see why you can't bother to get a state ID. Not a passport, but a basic ID that the majority of people agree with should be required when voting. 

nicknyr15

No ID for credit cards 
Stated income (not verified) 

Id and fully verified employment and income required for renting.

this is how it is here 

mace1229

Halifax2TheMax said:

mace1229 said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

Tim Simmons said:

mace1229 said:

gimmesometruth27 said:

mace1229 said:

Tim Simmons said:

tempo_n_groove said:

Tim Simmons said:

tempo_n_groove said:

Tim Simmons said:

Basically voting works just fine and up you are a dummy if you think otherwise. 

I have read so many voter fraud takes that I agree it seems so minute if it does happen.

I wouldn't mind the ID/citizenship showing for voting just so I never have to hear about this being an issue ever again.

As long as they can get everyone who needs an ID one at no cost, with no hoops and the easiest of effort, I’m fine with it too. 

In this day and age there are people struggling to get an ID but have the ability to go out and vote?

Call me living under a rock if that is a thing.

It’s not easy to go out and vote either. we should be making it as easy as possible for everybody who wants to do it,  not adding more hurdles that will make it difficult for people. 

Between early voting, absentee ballots, multiple voting locations, and polls being open 12 hours, if you didn't vote previously it's because you didn't want to.

this is a very black and white way of looking at it. doesn't take into account if that save law passes, if you do not have a passport you can't vote. does not take into account the need for a birth certificate to get proper id. does not take into account that a married woman would have to get special documentation since their married name does not match their birth certificate, does not take into account the purposeful reduction in the amount of voting machines in the poor community forcing long lines and people having to potentially take off a full day of work. does not take into account trump trying to outlaw vote by mail. 

voting should be free and easy for all citizens. 

the problem is not with "voter fraud". it is with republicans deliberately trying to disenfranchise groups that vote democratic.

 nobody is struggling to get a basic ID and who is willing and able to go out and vote.

I don't think you can say this with any level of certainty.

it's absolutely false. there are so many barriers for poor people obtaining one. it's absurd to claim nobody has this barrier. LOTS do. 

You can't function as an adult without ID.
Without ID you can't legally drive, have insurance, have a checking account, get a loan, rent an apartment, get a credit card, get utilities....
Where are all these people who struggle to do any of this? You can't live an adult life without basic ID.
Sure, maybe some homeless guy living under the pier gets by without it.....but I probably don't see him lining up at the polls either. 

*The following opinion is mine and mine alone and does not represent the views of my family, friends, government and/or my past, present or future employer. US Department of State: 1-888-407-4747.

So, how are the approximately 21M Americans without state or government ID functioning in the country? All living under overpasses? Riding the bus? Collecting unemployment?

So you're going to argue that not having an ID and not being able to do the majority of those things (even if I was wrong about the credit card) is not a hassle as an adult?
If that's your stance, I won't even bother to argue.

And where did you get that 21 million? I think that is way off.

Halifax2TheMax

mace1229 said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

mace1229 said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

Tim Simmons said:

mace1229 said:

gimmesometruth27 said:

mace1229 said:

Tim Simmons said:

tempo_n_groove said:

Tim Simmons said:

tempo_n_groove said:

Tim Simmons said:

Basically voting works just fine and up you are a dummy if you think otherwise. 

I have read so many voter fraud takes that I agree it seems so minute if it does happen.

I wouldn't mind the ID/citizenship showing for voting just so I never have to hear about this being an issue ever again.

As long as they can get everyone who needs an ID one at no cost, with no hoops and the easiest of effort, I’m fine with it too. 

In this day and age there are people struggling to get an ID but have the ability to go out and vote?

Call me living under a rock if that is a thing.

It’s not easy to go out and vote either. we should be making it as easy as possible for everybody who wants to do it,  not adding more hurdles that will make it difficult for people. 

Between early voting, absentee ballots, multiple voting locations, and polls being open 12 hours, if you didn't vote previously it's because you didn't want to.

this is a very black and white way of looking at it. doesn't take into account if that save law passes, if you do not have a passport you can't vote. does not take into account the need for a birth certificate to get proper id. does not take into account that a married woman would have to get special documentation since their married name does not match their birth certificate, does not take into account the purposeful reduction in the amount of voting machines in the poor community forcing long lines and people having to potentially take off a full day of work. does not take into account trump trying to outlaw vote by mail. 

voting should be free and easy for all citizens. 

the problem is not with "voter fraud". it is with republicans deliberately trying to disenfranchise groups that vote democratic.

 nobody is struggling to get a basic ID and who is willing and able to go out and vote.

I don't think you can say this with any level of certainty.

it's absolutely false. there are so many barriers for poor people obtaining one. it's absurd to claim nobody has this barrier. LOTS do. 

You can't function as an adult without ID.
Without ID you can't legally drive, have insurance, have a checking account, get a loan, rent an apartment, get a credit card, get utilities....
Where are all these people who struggle to do any of this? You can't live an adult life without basic ID.
Sure, maybe some homeless guy living under the pier gets by without it.....but I probably don't see him lining up at the polls either. 

*The following opinion is mine and mine alone and does not represent the views of my family, friends, government and/or my past, present or future employer. US Department of State: 1-888-407-4747.

So, how are the approximately 21M Americans without state or government ID functioning in the country? All living under overpasses? Riding the bus? Collecting unemployment?

So you're going to argue that not having an ID and not being able to do the majority of those things (even if I was wrong about the credit card) is not a hassle as an adult?
If that's your stance, I won't even bother to argue.

And where did you get that 21 million? I think that is way off.

*The following opinion is mine and mine alone and does not represent the views of my family, friends, government and/or my past, present or future employer. US Department of State: 1-888-407-4747.

Which part(s) of the SAVE Act do you agree with?

Halifax2TheMax

mace1229 said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

mace1229 said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

Tim Simmons said:

mace1229 said:

gimmesometruth27 said:

mace1229 said:

Tim Simmons said:

tempo_n_groove said:

Tim Simmons said:

tempo_n_groove said:

Tim Simmons said:

Basically voting works just fine and up you are a dummy if you think otherwise. 

I have read so many voter fraud takes that I agree it seems so minute if it does happen.

I wouldn't mind the ID/citizenship showing for voting just so I never have to hear about this being an issue ever again.

As long as they can get everyone who needs an ID one at no cost, with no hoops and the easiest of effort, I’m fine with it too. 

In this day and age there are people struggling to get an ID but have the ability to go out and vote?

Call me living under a rock if that is a thing.

It’s not easy to go out and vote either. we should be making it as easy as possible for everybody who wants to do it,  not adding more hurdles that will make it difficult for people. 

Between early voting, absentee ballots, multiple voting locations, and polls being open 12 hours, if you didn't vote previously it's because you didn't want to.

this is a very black and white way of looking at it. doesn't take into account if that save law passes, if you do not have a passport you can't vote. does not take into account the need for a birth certificate to get proper id. does not take into account that a married woman would have to get special documentation since their married name does not match their birth certificate, does not take into account the purposeful reduction in the amount of voting machines in the poor community forcing long lines and people having to potentially take off a full day of work. does not take into account trump trying to outlaw vote by mail. 

voting should be free and easy for all citizens. 

the problem is not with "voter fraud". it is with republicans deliberately trying to disenfranchise groups that vote democratic.

 nobody is struggling to get a basic ID and who is willing and able to go out and vote.

I don't think you can say this with any level of certainty.

it's absolutely false. there are so many barriers for poor people obtaining one. it's absurd to claim nobody has this barrier. LOTS do. 

You can't function as an adult without ID.
Without ID you can't legally drive, have insurance, have a checking account, get a loan, rent an apartment, get a credit card, get utilities....
Where are all these people who struggle to do any of this? You can't live an adult life without basic ID.
Sure, maybe some homeless guy living under the pier gets by without it.....but I probably don't see him lining up at the polls either. 

*The following opinion is mine and mine alone and does not represent the views of my family, friends, government and/or my past, present or future employer. US Department of State: 1-888-407-4747.

So, how are the approximately 21M Americans without state or government ID functioning in the country? All living under overpasses? Riding the bus? Collecting unemployment?

So you're going to argue that not having an ID and not being able to do the majority of those things (even if I was wrong about the credit card) is not a hassle as an adult?
If that's your stance, I won't even bother to argue.

And where did you get that 21 million? I think that is way off.

*The following opinion is mine and mine alone and does not represent the views of my family, friends, government and/or my past, present or future employer. US Department of State: 1-888-407-4747.

If you care to look at sources. So, how do all those millions of people function in society? Staying under the pier?

https://cdce.umd.edu/news/news-umd-analysis-millions-americans-don%E2%80%99t-have-id-required-vote

Last year, the Brennan Center partnered with VoteRiders, the Center for Democracy and Civic Engagement at the University of Maryland, and Public Wise to survey Americans about what identification they possess and what they know about voter ID laws in their state. We also asked respondents whether they had documents that prove their citizenship — a passport, birth certificate, or naturalization papers — readily available. Our research indicates that more than 9 percent of American citizens of voting age, or 21.3 million people, don’t have proof of citizenship readily available. There are myriad reasons for this — the documents might be in the home of another family member or in a safety deposit box. And at least 3.8 million don’t have these documents at all, often because they were lost, destroyed, or stolen.

https://www.brennancenter.org/our-work/analysis-opinion/millions-americans-dont-have-documents-proving-their-citizenship-readily

Should You Need to Prove Citizenship to Vote? Ask Kansas.

A Kansas law required a passport, a birth certificate or other proof of citizenship to register, but it was struck down after a court found that around 31,000 eligible voters had been blocked.

As President Trump digs in on his demand that senators pass a strict voter identification bill, lawmakers debating the potential impacts of the Republican-backed SAVE America Act might look to one place that already tried it — Kansas.

In 2013, Republicans in that state implemented legislation passed two years earlier that was so similar it bore a nearly identical name — the Secure and Fair Elections, or SAFE, Act. It, too, aimed to root out voting fraud by noncitizens. As voters nationwide would be required to do under the SAVE Act, those seeking to register to vote in Kansas had to provide proof of citizenship, such as a passport or a birth certificate.

The results weren’t great.

A federal judge struck down the law within a few years, after it was found to have blocked tens of thousands of eligible voters from registering while catching fewer than thirty noncitizens trying to do the same.

Many of those who were blocked — young Kansans and less politically attuned voters who were seeking to register for the first time — were from constituencies that have flocked to Mr. Trump since his rise in 2016.

Still, the state’s current elected officials are ready to try it again at the federal level. Asked about the Kansas experiment in an interview with The Topeka Capital-Journal, Senator Roger Marshall, a Republican, said that expecting citizens to provide a birth certificate or a passport in order to vote was still reasonable.

“I think that the benefits of having safe and secure elections outweigh that potential concern,” he said.

The Kansas cautionary tale started in 2013, when the documentary proof of citizenship law, which was passed in 2011, went into force. A federal judge struck down the law as unconstitutional in 2018, by which time the law had blocked the registration of around 31,000 otherwise eligible voters, or about 12 percent of all those who had tried to register for the first time.

Among them was Steven Fish, one of the plaintiffs in the lawsuit that successfully challenged the law. Mr. Fish, hoping to vote for the first time, was prevented from registering when he couldn’t furnish the necessary documents. Like about half of American citizens, he didn’t have a passport, and, having been born on a since-shuttered military base, he was unable to track down his birth certificate.

https://www.nytimes.com/2026/03/24/us/politics/proof-of-citizenship-voter-registration-kansas.html

Gern Blansten

mace1229 said:

Gern Blansten said:

mace1229 said:

PJ_Soul said:

mace1229 said:

PJ_Soul said:

gimmesometruth27 said:

Ledbetterman10 said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

Tim Simmons said:

mace1229 said:

gimmesometruth27 said:

mace1229 said:

Tim Simmons said:

tempo_n_groove said:

Tim Simmons said:

tempo_n_groove said:

Tim Simmons said:

Basically voting works just fine and up you are a dummy if you think otherwise. 

I have read so many voter fraud takes that I agree it seems so minute if it does happen.

I wouldn't mind the ID/citizenship showing for voting just so I never have to hear about this being an issue ever again.

As long as they can get everyone who needs an ID one at no cost, with no hoops and the easiest of effort, I’m fine with it too. 

In this day and age there are people struggling to get an ID but have the ability to go out and vote?

Call me living under a rock if that is a thing.

It’s not easy to go out and vote either. we should be making it as easy as possible for everybody who wants to do it,  not adding more hurdles that will make it difficult for people. 

Between early voting, absentee ballots, multiple voting locations, and polls being open 12 hours, if you didn't vote previously it's because you didn't want to.

this is a very black and white way of looking at it. doesn't take into account if that save law passes, if you do not have a passport you can't vote. does not take into account the need for a birth certificate to get proper id. does not take into account that a married woman would have to get special documentation since their married name does not match their birth certificate, does not take into account the purposeful reduction in the amount of voting machines in the poor community forcing long lines and people having to potentially take off a full day of work. does not take into account trump trying to outlaw vote by mail. 

voting should be free and easy for all citizens. 

the problem is not with "voter fraud". it is with republicans deliberately trying to disenfranchise groups that vote democratic.

 nobody is struggling to get a basic ID and who is willing and able to go out and vote.

I don't think you can say this with any level of certainty.

it's absolutely false. there are so many barriers for poor people obtaining one. it's absurd to claim nobody has this barrier. LOTS do. 

If this is true, shouldn’t the goal be to get these people IDs rather than allowing them to vote without one? Here’s a list of a few things you need an ID to do…..

1) Drive a car
2) Get a job
3) Open a bank account/apply for a credit card
4) Buy a home/rent an apartment 
5) Vote

Of all the else things, voting is by far the least important. Yet I never hear democrats talk about helping people that don’t have IDs to get IDs. Because if they solved that problem (if it is in fact a problem), then there’d be no reason to be against voter IDs. And we know they don’t want that. 

again you do not need an id to get a credit card. i just got one 3 months ago. 

And I have never been asked for ID to rent a home. I just fill in some paperwork. 

As far as the credit card and renting, don't they ask for some sort of financial documentation, like bank statements? And you need an ID to get a checking account. It been 14 years since I rented my last apartment, but I remember submitting all sorts of paperwork and getting a background and credit check. Maybe they didn't ask for my ID directly, but I wouldn't have had those other things without one. 
If it was that easy to just open a credit card, the fraud would be much more rampant. They want to make sure you are who you say you are, by requiring documents that prove it. Maybe directly or indirectly require an ID. If you open a CC through your bank, they already have all that info. So just depends on where and who you open it with as far as what they'll need.

You seem unaware of how totally loose the credit card companies are with giving people credit, lol. 

Well, I only have 2 credit cards, and opened the last one almost 15 years ago. So maybe I am. But I am pretty sure they asked for financial statements then. I am a little surprised if they don't anymore, unless its tied to something you already have a relationship with (like your bank).

they look up your credit score...that's all they need (using your SSN)

Even then, going full circle back as to who doesn't have an ID. If you know your SSN and can have access to get credit cards, I don't see why you can't bother to get a state ID. Not a passport, but a basic ID that the majority of people agree with should be required when voting. 

take the case of my mother in law....no state ID since her driver's license expired

She doesn't drive anymore, lives in assisted living. Not much use for an ID but if she has to have one to vote that is a major hurdle. 

mace1229

Thank you for proving my point.
First you said:

"Halifax2TheMax said:

» show previous quotes

*The following opinion is mine and mine alone and does not represent the views of my family, friends, government and/or my past, present or future employer. US Department of State: 1-888-407-4747.

So, how are the approximately 21M Americans without state or government ID functioning in the country? All living under overpasses? Riding the bus? Collecting unemployment?"


Then you said: 
"Our research indicates that more than 9 percent of American citizens of voting age, or 21.3 million people, don’t have proof of citizenship readily available."


Those are not the same thing. So your number of 21 million is pretty far off. When you want to put the goal posts back, I can. continue the conversation. 

mace1229

Gern Blansten said:

mace1229 said:

Gern Blansten said:

mace1229 said:

PJ_Soul said:

mace1229 said:

PJ_Soul said:

gimmesometruth27 said:

Ledbetterman10 said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

Tim Simmons said:

mace1229 said:

gimmesometruth27 said:

mace1229 said:

Tim Simmons said:

tempo_n_groove said:

Tim Simmons said:

tempo_n_groove said:

Tim Simmons said:

Basically voting works just fine and up you are a dummy if you think otherwise. 

I have read so many voter fraud takes that I agree it seems so minute if it does happen.

I wouldn't mind the ID/citizenship showing for voting just so I never have to hear about this being an issue ever again.

As long as they can get everyone who needs an ID one at no cost, with no hoops and the easiest of effort, I’m fine with it too. 

In this day and age there are people struggling to get an ID but have the ability to go out and vote?

Call me living under a rock if that is a thing.

It’s not easy to go out and vote either. we should be making it as easy as possible for everybody who wants to do it,  not adding more hurdles that will make it difficult for people. 

Between early voting, absentee ballots, multiple voting locations, and polls being open 12 hours, if you didn't vote previously it's because you didn't want to.

this is a very black and white way of looking at it. doesn't take into account if that save law passes, if you do not have a passport you can't vote. does not take into account the need for a birth certificate to get proper id. does not take into account that a married woman would have to get special documentation since their married name does not match their birth certificate, does not take into account the purposeful reduction in the amount of voting machines in the poor community forcing long lines and people having to potentially take off a full day of work. does not take into account trump trying to outlaw vote by mail. 

voting should be free and easy for all citizens. 

the problem is not with "voter fraud". it is with republicans deliberately trying to disenfranchise groups that vote democratic.

 nobody is struggling to get a basic ID and who is willing and able to go out and vote.

I don't think you can say this with any level of certainty.

it's absolutely false. there are so many barriers for poor people obtaining one. it's absurd to claim nobody has this barrier. LOTS do. 

If this is true, shouldn’t the goal be to get these people IDs rather than allowing them to vote without one? Here’s a list of a few things you need an ID to do…..

1) Drive a car
2) Get a job
3) Open a bank account/apply for a credit card
4) Buy a home/rent an apartment 
5) Vote

Of all the else things, voting is by far the least important. Yet I never hear democrats talk about helping people that don’t have IDs to get IDs. Because if they solved that problem (if it is in fact a problem), then there’d be no reason to be against voter IDs. And we know they don’t want that. 

again you do not need an id to get a credit card. i just got one 3 months ago. 

And I have never been asked for ID to rent a home. I just fill in some paperwork. 

As far as the credit card and renting, don't they ask for some sort of financial documentation, like bank statements? And you need an ID to get a checking account. It been 14 years since I rented my last apartment, but I remember submitting all sorts of paperwork and getting a background and credit check. Maybe they didn't ask for my ID directly, but I wouldn't have had those other things without one. 
If it was that easy to just open a credit card, the fraud would be much more rampant. They want to make sure you are who you say you are, by requiring documents that prove it. Maybe directly or indirectly require an ID. If you open a CC through your bank, they already have all that info. So just depends on where and who you open it with as far as what they'll need.

You seem unaware of how totally loose the credit card companies are with giving people credit, lol. 

Well, I only have 2 credit cards, and opened the last one almost 15 years ago. So maybe I am. But I am pretty sure they asked for financial statements then. I am a little surprised if they don't anymore, unless its tied to something you already have a relationship with (like your bank).

they look up your credit score...that's all they need (using your SSN)

Even then, going full circle back as to who doesn't have an ID. If you know your SSN and can have access to get credit cards, I don't see why you can't bother to get a state ID. Not a passport, but a basic ID that the majority of people agree with should be required when voting. 

take the case of my mother in law....no state ID since her driver's license expired

She doesn't drive anymore, lives in assisted living. Not much use for an ID but if she has to have one to vote that is a major hurdle. 

I guess we disagree on what a major hurdle is. I'm sure she has all of the documents needed for an ID, or can get them. Spend a couple of hours at the DMV or whatever office and you'd get an ID that probably lasts 20 years and likely never have to go again the rest of her life. I don't consider that a major hurdle. An inconvenience, sure.
There's probably even a social worker or some service within the assisted living (or that visits) that would  help her with that. Also, I'm also pretty sure she'll need an ID if she ever wants to update her will or power of attorney, so may not be useless to get one even at her age. 

Halifax2TheMax

mace1229 said:

Thank you for proving my point.
First you said:

"Halifax2TheMax said:

» show previous quotes

*The following opinion is mine and mine alone and does not represent the views of my family, friends, government and/or my past, present or future employer. US Department of State: 1-888-407-4747.

So, how are the approximately 21M Americans without state or government ID functioning in the country? All living under overpasses? Riding the bus? Collecting unemployment?"


Then you said: 
"Our research indicates that more than 9 percent of American citizens of voting age, or 21.3 million people, don’t have proof of citizenship readily available."


Those are not the same thing. So your number of 21 million is pretty far off. When you want to put the goal posts back, I can. continue the conversation. 

*The following opinion is mine and mine alone and does not represent the views of my family, friends, government and/or my past, present or future employer. US Department of State: 1-888-407-4747.

How do you prove citizenship? And is it closer to 21M, or your made up reference to only those living under a pier? Love your minimizing the disenfranchising of millions of citizens from their right to vote, by the way.

Again, which part(s) of the SAVE Act do you agree with? What is the number of American citizens that are functioning in society without government issued ID? If 21M seems too high, what is the number? What insignificant number in your mind is it?

From the first link I posted above that you clearly didn’t review.

Key findings include:

• Nearly 29 million voting-age U.S. citizens lacked a valid driver’s license and over 7 million had no other form of non-expired government-issued photo identification.

• In states with strict photo identification laws in 2020, over 3 million voting-age U.S. citizens did not have a current driver’s license, and over 1 million did not have a non-expired government-issued photo identification.

• More than 11 million people ages 18-29 did not have a current driver’s license, and more than 3 million did not have any unexpired government issued photo ID.

• Members of underrepresented racial and ethnic groups were less likely to have a current driver’s license or other government-issued photo ID. An estimated 1.86 million Black non-Hispanic Americans (6.2%) and 1.86 million Hispanic Americans (6.1%) lack a photo ID, as do 4.5% of those who identify as Native American, Native Alaskan or another race. This compares to just 2.3% of White non-Hispanic Americans and 1.6% of Asian, Native Hawaiian or other Pacific Islander Americans.

• Individuals with a high school degree or less were the least likely of people of all educational levels to have a current driver’s license or any photo ID. Over 18.5 million people who did not complete high school or whose highest level of education is a high school degree did not have a driver’s license.

• The analysis found a strong relationship between income and lack of a driver’s license, with adult Americans who earn less than $30,000 lacking a driver’s license at a rate about five times greater than the highest income category of $100,000 or more.

• Those who were not registered and those who did not vote in 2020 were far more likely to lack a current driver’s license and any photo ID. Adult Americans who were not registered to vote were three times more likely to lack a driver’s license (30%) than those who were registered (11%). The results were similar when comparing 2020 non-voters to 2020 voters, demonstrating the disproportionate barrier that voter ID laws may create for non-voters or infrequent voters, as well as new or first-time voters.

Halifax2TheMax

*The following opinion is mine and mine alone and does not represent the views of my family, friends, government and/or my past, present or future employer. US Department of State: 1-888-407-4747.

All for what we know is not a problem to begin with. Fraudulent elections, people who shouldn’t be voting are voting in such numbers that outcomes are determined by them, OMG! Meh, fuck citizens having a right to vote if it means no transgenders, eh?

Some are all in, and I mean ALL in.

Gern Blansten

mace1229 said:

Gern Blansten said:

mace1229 said:

Gern Blansten said:

mace1229 said:

PJ_Soul said:

mace1229 said:

PJ_Soul said:

gimmesometruth27 said:

Ledbetterman10 said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

Tim Simmons said:

mace1229 said:

gimmesometruth27 said:

mace1229 said:

Tim Simmons said:

tempo_n_groove said:

Tim Simmons said:

tempo_n_groove said:

Tim Simmons said:

Basically voting works just fine and up you are a dummy if you think otherwise. 

I have read so many voter fraud takes that I agree it seems so minute if it does happen.

I wouldn't mind the ID/citizenship showing for voting just so I never have to hear about this being an issue ever again.

As long as they can get everyone who needs an ID one at no cost, with no hoops and the easiest of effort, I’m fine with it too. 

In this day and age there are people struggling to get an ID but have the ability to go out and vote?

Call me living under a rock if that is a thing.

It’s not easy to go out and vote either. we should be making it as easy as possible for everybody who wants to do it,  not adding more hurdles that will make it difficult for people. 

Between early voting, absentee ballots, multiple voting locations, and polls being open 12 hours, if you didn't vote previously it's because you didn't want to.

this is a very black and white way of looking at it. doesn't take into account if that save law passes, if you do not have a passport you can't vote. does not take into account the need for a birth certificate to get proper id. does not take into account that a married woman would have to get special documentation since their married name does not match their birth certificate, does not take into account the purposeful reduction in the amount of voting machines in the poor community forcing long lines and people having to potentially take off a full day of work. does not take into account trump trying to outlaw vote by mail. 

voting should be free and easy for all citizens. 

the problem is not with "voter fraud". it is with republicans deliberately trying to disenfranchise groups that vote democratic.

 nobody is struggling to get a basic ID and who is willing and able to go out and vote.

I don't think you can say this with any level of certainty.

it's absolutely false. there are so many barriers for poor people obtaining one. it's absurd to claim nobody has this barrier. LOTS do. 

If this is true, shouldn’t the goal be to get these people IDs rather than allowing them to vote without one? Here’s a list of a few things you need an ID to do…..

1) Drive a car
2) Get a job
3) Open a bank account/apply for a credit card
4) Buy a home/rent an apartment 
5) Vote

Of all the else things, voting is by far the least important. Yet I never hear democrats talk about helping people that don’t have IDs to get IDs. Because if they solved that problem (if it is in fact a problem), then there’d be no reason to be against voter IDs. And we know they don’t want that. 

again you do not need an id to get a credit card. i just got one 3 months ago. 

And I have never been asked for ID to rent a home. I just fill in some paperwork. 

As far as the credit card and renting, don't they ask for some sort of financial documentation, like bank statements? And you need an ID to get a checking account. It been 14 years since I rented my last apartment, but I remember submitting all sorts of paperwork and getting a background and credit check. Maybe they didn't ask for my ID directly, but I wouldn't have had those other things without one. 
If it was that easy to just open a credit card, the fraud would be much more rampant. They want to make sure you are who you say you are, by requiring documents that prove it. Maybe directly or indirectly require an ID. If you open a CC through your bank, they already have all that info. So just depends on where and who you open it with as far as what they'll need.

You seem unaware of how totally loose the credit card companies are with giving people credit, lol. 

Well, I only have 2 credit cards, and opened the last one almost 15 years ago. So maybe I am. But I am pretty sure they asked for financial statements then. I am a little surprised if they don't anymore, unless its tied to something you already have a relationship with (like your bank).

they look up your credit score...that's all they need (using your SSN)

Even then, going full circle back as to who doesn't have an ID. If you know your SSN and can have access to get credit cards, I don't see why you can't bother to get a state ID. Not a passport, but a basic ID that the majority of people agree with should be required when voting. 

take the case of my mother in law....no state ID since her driver's license expired

She doesn't drive anymore, lives in assisted living. Not much use for an ID but if she has to have one to vote that is a major hurdle. 

I guess we disagree on what a major hurdle is. I'm sure she has all of the documents needed for an ID, or can get them. Spend a couple of hours at the DMV or whatever office and you'd get an ID that probably lasts 20 years and likely never have to go again the rest of her life. I don't consider that a major hurdle. An inconvenience, sure.
There's probably even a social worker or some service within the assisted living (or that visits) that would  help her with that. Also, I'm also pretty sure she'll need an ID if she ever wants to update her will or power of attorney, so may not be useless to get one even at her age. 

who is going to drive her to the DMV? Who is going to carry her into her wheelchair and sit with her for two hours then take her back home?

It's a hurdle

my point has been that if you are going to issue requirements like this then far in advance the resources need to be made available to allow people to get proper ID. It shouldn't be a hindrance or poll tax

Gern Blansten

I guarantee you she doesn't know where her fucking birth cert is

HughFreakingDillon

https://www.facebook.com/share/v/18BVuSJjpU/

Ted Lieu on the save act

brianlux

HughFreakingDillon said:

https://www.facebook.com/share/v/18BVuSJjpU/

Ted Lieu on the save act

Lieu makes a great point here:

"If you're a married woman and name change, guess what?  Doesn't count."

They know what they're doing.  Few women voters means overall more votes for fascists. 

It's all part of the plan.  They know the "gender gap" is thus:   51%–56% women favor the Democratic Party compared to roughly 37%–44% for the Republican Party.

josevolution

Yet fuckface voted in Florida by mail 

Tim Simmons

I don't even know what we are arguing over at this point. 

Gern Blansten

It's the typical back and forth. Until someone gets burnt by their own argument they just don't get it.