Renee Nicole Good/ Alex Pretti/ Minneapolis

Tim Simmons

josevolution

Tim Simmons said:

And to piggy back on that and bring it back to the thread topic. 

JD Vance is such a piece of shit. Like, just the shittiest piece of shit. 

Gern Blansten said:

Tim Simmons said:

And to piggy back on that and bring it back to the thread topic. 

JD Vance is such a piece of shit. Like, just the shittiest piece of shit. 

He really is. Fuck him

I can see him dumping his non Christian wife for widow Kirk at some point! 

tempo_n_groove

Halifax2TheMax said:

* The following opinion is mine and mine alone and does not represent the views of my family, friends, government and/or my past, present or future employer. US Department of State: 1-888-407-4747.

You know, they could have let her drive away, they had or knew her license plate, make/model, color of her car, description of the perp, called it in and requested that the Minneapolis police pull her over and arrest her for “terrorist” activities or impeding a police investigation. They could have put out an APB or gone to her house and picked her up the next day, charged her and see what happened. But that’s just me.

Because they “can” and “do”.

I do wonder if they have this written in their policies.  If so the he will be brought up on charges.

Parksy

My $0.02 here... and importantly this comes from a Canadian under possibly different laws. 

In Canada, cops shoot to kill. The concept of shoot the tires wouldn't fly in Canada. That said, any and all other means would be used before deadly force. 

Calling the ICE agent a murderer or saying that he committed murder, in Canada at least, would be incorrect. Murder implies a degree of premeditation. I don't think, and it certainly can't be proven that this agent woke up hoping to kill someone. A killer, he is. A murderer, not so much. 

Regarding the victim, is there  a reasonable and legal expectation that she is in full care and control of her vehicle when operating it? Yes. Can an argument be made that she was fleeing arrest and while doing so, could have caused grievous bodily harm to a person/cop? .... Yes. 

Can the legitimacy of that arrest or stop be questioned...? Also yes. But will it matter regarding any potential prosecution against the shooter? Likely not. 

I'm honestly not sure what degree of law enforcement these ICE agents are which is a whole other ugly problem for you people down there. For now, let's assume he has full police powers and the training that is involved with that... especially use of force / lethal force. All around bad judgement by the cop. Bad safety practices. There are a whole bunch of questions that should and need to be asked. Why was the cop who did the shooting in that position (front of the car)? Why did the first cop attempt to enter the vehicle? What attempts were made to get the woman to exit the vehicle peacefully? Was there coordination amongst the agents as to what they were doing with this woman and why? 

Criminal manslaughter or any criminal charge against the shooter would be tricky even in Canada, let alone in the US where your justice system seems biased at best. A lot of you might not love this... but I think the cop will have a decent enough argument to avoid a charge here. Legally this will come down to "It's not what you know, it's what you can prove in court." Taking the political tension and everything that comes with that out of the equation and looking at it strictly from a policing / legal point of view... they will treat this like a suspect fleeing a scene and going towards a cop. They will then argue (as they have been) that the cop was shooting to protect himself and others.... an argument that unfortunately and in my opinion would hold weight in court. 

Legally.. this will likely end with nothing more than a lot of people very, very pissed off. The cop will likely face no discipline. Could a civil suit be brought against the officer and the department and the government... yes, and I truly hope it does. Quickly. 

The onus of being responsible and just should always primarily be in the hands of those in public service carrying guns, not the public. Safety and laws are a shared responsibility but being a cop you have a higher level of expectation to know what the fuck you're doing. 

Beyond that... whether you are left, right, centre, up, down... whatever... this does not happen without Trumpism. Full stop. He wants this. He hopes for this. This is what brings him pleasure. I think he's a sick person. And politically, those who support him are by default also sick. I say that, because you ought to know by now that he does in fact like this. It does not matter to him that someone died. It would only matter to him and he would only care about it if it helped him. He is enabled by media, people, and politicians. To support that at the ballot box or on here or wherever is disturbing. And for those who disagree and point towards democrats who may also engage in divisiveness etc... you may be very correct, but no one, ever comes even remotely close to the level and degree of divisiveness and rhetoric that Trump and his team engage in. 90 something million Americans voted for this man. I hope you're happy with the return on investment. 

HughFreakingDillon

I was lookin this up this morning, and
a) I think for the purposes of this discussion "killer" or "murderer" is semantics. I understand the distinction you are making, but I haven't seen it implied this was premeditated. 
b) it's my understanding ICE agents are not police officers. They are able to detain anyone related to immigration. It doesn't sound like they have authority to arrest anyone around them. But I don't know for sure. 

Gern Blansten

murder doesn't have to be premeditated...that's only first degree murder

Parksy

Gern Blansten said:

murder doesn't have to be premeditated...that's only first degree murder

my apologies, you are correct. 

Parksy

HughFreakingDillon said:

I was lookin this up this morning, and
a) I think for the purposes of this discussion "killer" or "murderer" is semantics. I understand the distinction you are making, but I haven't seen it implied this was premeditated. 
b) it's my understanding ICE agents are not police officers. They are able to detain anyone related to immigration. It doesn't sound like they have authority to arrest anyone around them. But I don't know for sure. 

if you're correct... this is just insane to me.  I always considered the fact that they were running around with masks looking more like militia was suspect at best.  If they lack police training and authority then the States really have sunken to a crazy new low.

That said... I said the same thing when that Rittenhouse fellow was running around with a gun and the cops were like "Thanks, Kid! Keep up the good work!"  Good lord. 

Gern Blansten

There was no threat to the agent. None. When the vehicle was touching him it was barely moving. The video clearly shows him shooting her while he is at least a few feet from the vehicle.

He never should have pulled his gun out. There was no reason to.

josevolution

But like Halifax stated even if she got away they had plenty of time to get her plate model and year of vehicle! She would have been arrested in minutes, and I was wrong in thinking that agent should have shot at the tires. 

Has it been confirmed that the victim leaves behind 3 children 

OnWis97

The venn diagram of people who think this was justified and think Ashlii Babbitt was murdered is probably a circle.

Gern Blansten

She had a passenger. I can't wait to hear what they have to say.

gimmesometruth27

Tim Simmons said:

What we need to be discussing is why was reaching for the gun to exert lethal force the go to move for this agent? 

because he has character issues that preclude him from doing the job he is hired to do.

they are hiring the worst people because decent people do not want to be a part of ice.

gimmesometruth27

tempo_n_groove said:

gimmesometruth27 said:

tempo_n_groove said:

Tim Simmons said:

also a car moving at less than 5 mph away from anyone is not a weapon and the admin and whoever is running with this talking point can fuck all the way off with that take. 

The car went toward that officer.  Not sure what you see?  

He also did sidestep to move.

No way he gets hit up for murder unless they broke some other law.  Cops have used lethal force for this scenario before.

It's not right but that's what is going to happen.

he is an ice agent. not a cop.

fucking gestapo.

You can disagree but ICE are indeed Law enforcement.

I'll yield to gestapo though.

immigration and customs enforcement has no business in a city in minnesota.

gimmesometruth27

Lerxst1992 said:

Spartanacus said:

josevolution said:

A beautiful human being killed for absolutely no reason and it wasn’t an illegal immigrant that took her life 

It was a tragic situation, but she made several huge mistakes that lead to this as I'm sure you're aware of, so I'm not sure what you meant about "absolutely no reason."

1) She impeded federal agents at work and blocked the road, which lead to...
2) ...her being ordered to exit the vehicle, which she ignored, and then...
3) ...she drove towards an officer with a lethal weapon, which lead to...
4) ...her hitting him with said weapon, which if you saw the one video, you can clearly see.

The last two points are why she is unfortunately dead.  Would I be upset if I was her dad?  Yes.  But I'd also understand what lead to this.    

Cmon, we are talking about taking someone’s life here. The agent was able to execute a kill shot thru a windshield but couldnt be bothered taking out the tires instead? Give me a fvcking break

this agent better be dealt with legally and the Rs better get their heads on straight. We don’t need to go down this rabbit hole if they condone incompetent and deadly enforcement work. The taxpayers will be paying millions and millions for this complete incompetence , maybe President Newsome takes that money from red states only in three years?

i agree with you here. but we are beyond the point of stopping it. armed citizens are going to start taking out ice agents. just wait.

PJ_Soul

Parksy said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

I was lookin this up this morning, and
a) I think for the purposes of this discussion "killer" or "murderer" is semantics. I understand the distinction you are making, but I haven't seen it implied this was premeditated. 
b) it's my understanding ICE agents are not police officers. They are able to detain anyone related to immigration. It doesn't sound like they have authority to arrest anyone around them. But I don't know for sure. 

if you're correct... this is just insane to me.  I always considered the fact that they were running around with masks looking more like militia was suspect at best.  If they lack police training and authority then the States really have sunken to a crazy new low.

That said... I said the same thing when that Rittenhouse fellow was running around with a gun and the cops were like "Thanks, Kid! Keep up the good work!"  Good lord. 

Dude, the ICE agents are just the brand new, American version of the SS. 

CarryTheZero

Crazy that within hours she is being labeled a “domestic terrorist.” That term should be reserved for people perpetuating violence with the intent to scare, terrify, or intimidate. It does not appear she was there to run over any officers. She appears as if she is attempting to leave the scene. If she is truly a terrorist and needs to be brought to justice, the easiest thing to do is let her go, arrest her later, and bring her to trial. She had no weapons or intent to harm the general populace.

In my state, there is a law saying police must stop giving chase if the ensuing car chase could cause death or endangerment to others. Is that not a similar case here? I do not buy that agents would have been killed by her unless they shot her in the face.

Was she putting herself in danger just by being near ICE? Yes, I think so, mostly because ICE has proven to be dangerous and prone to excessive behavior. Does this give law enforcement a free pass to kill anyone? I hope not or we are all going to be in danger from now on.

Per Vance’s comment, I do not think federal agents have absolute immunity regarding criminal offenses, only civil ones. And local law enforcement has now been barred from participating in the investigation? I don’t understand what country we live in now.

gimmesometruth27

so kash patel is going to investigate noem's agency. 

i can't see how there can possibly be a cover up here. we will get justice for sure.... 

Tim Simmons

Nothing will happen. they circle the wagons around each other.

mickeyrat

feds no have the case after refusing to share evidence with Minnesota. 

from ALTNATPARKSERV adbook post...

Let’s talk about something. The fact that the ICE agent who murdered Renee Good was dragged by a moving vehicle in a prior incident is not a defense, it actually makes the situation much worse for him. In law-enforcement reviews, a previous similar incident doesn’t excuse later conduct; it establishes that the risk was known and that the officer had already been warned, reviewed, and retrained. Instead of supporting his justification, it raises the standard of care he was expected to follow.

ICE agents, like all federal law-enforcement officers, are trained not to place themselves in front of or alongside moving vehicles. Vehicles are treated as inherently dangerous, and standard training emphasizes creating distance, stepping out of the vehicle’s path, and avoiding positions where an officer could be struck or dragged. Putting yourself in the way of a moving car is considered a violation of basic officer-safety principles.

Now consider the earlier incident where he was reportedly dragged. That would have triggered a formal after-action review and almost certainly required retraining focused specifically on vehicle encounters and positioning. At that point, the danger is no longer hypothetical it is documented, understood, and directly addressed through training or corrective action.

When the same officer later places himself in the path of a moving vehicle again, it looks significantly worse from a professional standpoint. It suggests he repeated conduct he had already been trained to avoid. In law-enforcement terms, that shows a failure to apply training and a pattern of negligent behavior, not a one-time mistake.

Finally, in use-of-force evaluations, officers generally cannot create their own danger and then rely on that danger to justify deadly force. If an officer acts contrary to training, puts himself in harm’s way, and then escalates force because of that self-created risk, investigators and courts view that as increased responsibility, not a valid excuse.