Summer in Chicago

Lerxst1992

Halifax2TheMax said:

Lerxst1992 said:

static111 said:

Lerxst1992 said:

benjs said:

Lerxst1992 said:

Tim Simmons said:

Lerxst1992 said:

nicknyr15 said:

josevolution said:

nicknyr15 said:

People getting defensive about murder depending on what color the state votes is wild. Dem voters/republican voters both do it and it’s insane. If Chicago was a red state, this thread would be drastically different. Acting like republicans would do any better controlling the most densely populated cities is crazy. Exploiting homicide to send in the national guard and act like a hero is crazy. Everything is Weird to me. Whatever i guess 

So don’t we have to ask ourselves why we feel this way? When did this start 

That’s a great question and I don’t know. I’d assume it’s the rise of social media that plays a big part in riling everybody up about every little issue and promoting an us vs them mentality. Influencers , right and left, whose sole purpose is to anger their base and make them hate the other. I can’t imagine one party being solely responsible for every bad thing in this country. It just seems that every tragedy is an opportunity to point the finger and it disgust me. United States? No shot. Every little thing seems designed to divide us. Which I guess is natural when there are only two options. But again, I’m no expert. I hate politics. I follow loosely to not be ignorant when it comes time to exercise my right to vote. 

The problem is Democrats have no clue how to explain why guns are such a problem for Chicago but not as much in New York and Los angeles. Democrats need to win this debate to win elections to change laws into ones that they like. 

They actually do. just not a pithy soundbite or phrase. 

 It could be a very effective anti gun debate argument, because it strikes the heart of what Republicans believe to be true about guns, especially in Chicago. Rs use this as a wedge to convince moderates that Democrats are wrong about guns while Democrats have not demonstrated a counter argument yet.

been trying to steer this debate towards that point for three days and I’m not sure one person brought this up… This reason why the gun issue is so different for Chicago versus the other big Democratic cities. Edit, Ben alluded to it but explained it away that the argument is not emotion based. If the Dems make it a passioned argument, then it would be an emotional one.

I’d love to know a criticism about surrounding red states that could be more emotionally loaded to people than “there’s a massive homicide and safety issue in this large Democratic city”. My argument is pretty simple - I don’t think there’s anything Democrats could come up with (save for lying) that is more impactful than that statement from the right. There are battles the Democrats can win, but I don’t think this is one of them.

To win elections dems need to go after the lower information voters in the middle. Not all of them are stupid. 

To breakthrough The Republicans bully pulpit, They need to make this argument. Nonstop hammer away. 

Let everyone know that there is a coordinator pipeline smuggling guns from surrounding red states. Point out states out by name. Point out the manufacturers that allow this to happen and where they are located. Show pictures of press conferences, and in their advertisements. Keep at it.  Day after day after day after day after day until everybody knows what their argument is.

 This is why Democrats are terrible at messaging. They are too busy, clutching their pearls and thinking they are superior to everyone else (amt?) instead of getting on the ground and making difficult arguments over and over and over again 

Where have you been? Dems have lost the gun control argument when it comes to the polls.  Anything they say gets so twisted and warped and turned into they are going to take away your guns and usher in a rainbow socialist totalitarian government.  There are things Dems can win, but going after guns is a loss, until the gun crime to stupid threshold is met.

That’s it exactly. They can’t win a debate with republicans, even when facts support them. If they can’t win this one, perhaps it’s best for them to focus on the debates they can win?

“They’re eating the cats. They’re eating the dogs. They’re eating the pets of the people who live there.”

Can’t fix stupid.

You know maga sees that like WWE? Those are not the voters Dems should be after. Hopefully they are smart enough to find the right audience that is open to supporting them. If not, they need to accept it peacefully or move out.

Tim Simmons

I think there are people who are not MAGA (or liberal), who are just generally disengaged from day to day news, who do hear this stuff and are swayed by it. They are attainable through messaging, but critical thinking does escape them.

Gern Blansten

Lerxst1992 said:

static111 said:

Lerxst1992 said:

benjs said:

Lerxst1992 said:

Tim Simmons said:

Lerxst1992 said:

nicknyr15 said:

josevolution said:

nicknyr15 said:

People getting defensive about murder depending on what color the state votes is wild. Dem voters/republican voters both do it and it’s insane. If Chicago was a red state, this thread would be drastically different. Acting like republicans would do any better controlling the most densely populated cities is crazy. Exploiting homicide to send in the national guard and act like a hero is crazy. Everything is Weird to me. Whatever i guess 

So don’t we have to ask ourselves why we feel this way? When did this start 

That’s a great question and I don’t know. I’d assume it’s the rise of social media that plays a big part in riling everybody up about every little issue and promoting an us vs them mentality. Influencers , right and left, whose sole purpose is to anger their base and make them hate the other. I can’t imagine one party being solely responsible for every bad thing in this country. It just seems that every tragedy is an opportunity to point the finger and it disgust me. United States? No shot. Every little thing seems designed to divide us. Which I guess is natural when there are only two options. But again, I’m no expert. I hate politics. I follow loosely to not be ignorant when it comes time to exercise my right to vote. 

The problem is Democrats have no clue how to explain why guns are such a problem for Chicago but not as much in New York and Los angeles. Democrats need to win this debate to win elections to change laws into ones that they like. 

They actually do. just not a pithy soundbite or phrase. 

 It could be a very effective anti gun debate argument, because it strikes the heart of what Republicans believe to be true about guns, especially in Chicago. Rs use this as a wedge to convince moderates that Democrats are wrong about guns while Democrats have not demonstrated a counter argument yet.

been trying to steer this debate towards that point for three days and I’m not sure one person brought this up… This reason why the gun issue is so different for Chicago versus the other big Democratic cities. Edit, Ben alluded to it but explained it away that the argument is not emotion based. If the Dems make it a passioned argument, then it would be an emotional one.

I’d love to know a criticism about surrounding red states that could be more emotionally loaded to people than “there’s a massive homicide and safety issue in this large Democratic city”. My argument is pretty simple - I don’t think there’s anything Democrats could come up with (save for lying) that is more impactful than that statement from the right. There are battles the Democrats can win, but I don’t think this is one of them.

To win elections dems need to go after the lower information voters in the middle. Not all of them are stupid. 

To breakthrough The Republicans bully pulpit, They need to make this argument. Nonstop hammer away. 

Let everyone know that there is a coordinator pipeline smuggling guns from surrounding red states. Point out states out by name. Point out the manufacturers that allow this to happen and where they are located. Show pictures of press conferences, and in their advertisements. Keep at it.  Day after day after day after day after day until everybody knows what their argument is.

 This is why Democrats are terrible at messaging. They are too busy, clutching their pearls and thinking they are superior to everyone else (amt?) instead of getting on the ground and making difficult arguments over and over and over again 

Where have you been? Dems have lost the gun control argument when it comes to the polls.  Anything they say gets so twisted and warped and turned into they are going to take away your guns and usher in a rainbow socialist totalitarian government.  There are things Dems can win, but going after guns is a loss, until the gun crime to stupid threshold is met.

That’s it exactly. They can’t win a debate with republicans, even when facts support them. If they can’t win this one, perhaps it’s best for them to focus on the debates they can win?

They win all the time...the public is too stupid to realize it

Lerxst1992

Tim Simmons said:

I think there are people who are not MAGA (or liberal), who are just generally disengaged from day to day news, who do hear this stuff and are swayed by it. They are attainable through messaging, but critical thinking does escape them.

Yes and yes. Obama was good at this. Since then the party lost its way.