Summer in Chicago

josevolution

nicknyr15 said:

People getting defensive about murder depending on what color the state votes is wild. Dem voters/republican voters both do it and it’s insane. If Chicago was a red state, this thread would be drastically different. Acting like republicans would do any better controlling the most densely populated cities is crazy. Exploiting homicide to send in the national guard and act like a hero is crazy. Everything is Weird to me. Whatever i guess 

So don’t we have to ask ourselves why we feel this way? When did this start 

nicknyr15

josevolution said:

nicknyr15 said:

People getting defensive about murder depending on what color the state votes is wild. Dem voters/republican voters both do it and it’s insane. If Chicago was a red state, this thread would be drastically different. Acting like republicans would do any better controlling the most densely populated cities is crazy. Exploiting homicide to send in the national guard and act like a hero is crazy. Everything is Weird to me. Whatever i guess 

So don’t we have to ask ourselves why we feel this way? When did this start 

That’s a great question and I don’t know. I’d assume it’s the rise of social media that plays a big part in riling everybody up about every little issue and promoting an us vs them mentality. Influencers , right and left, whose sole purpose is to anger their base and make them hate the other. I can’t imagine one party being solely responsible for every bad thing in this country. It just seems that every tragedy is an opportunity to point the finger and it disgust me. United States? No shot. Every little thing seems designed to divide us. Which I guess is natural when there are only two options. But again, I’m no expert. I hate politics. I follow loosely to not be ignorant when it comes time to exercise my right to vote. 

Gern Blansten

nicknyr15 said:

People getting defensive about murder depending on what color the state votes is wild. Dem voters/republican voters both do it and it’s insane. If Chicago was a red state, this thread would be drastically different. Acting like republicans would do any better controlling the most densely populated cities is crazy. Exploiting homicide to send in the national guard and act like a hero is crazy. Everything is Weird to me. Whatever i guess 

Disagree... We only talk red and blue because red is constantly using blue as an attack point. It's stupid and hypocritical 

Tim Simmons

Having more outlets for messaging (both giving and receiving) are certainly to blame for elevating the vitriol. Bad faith arguments certainly make things worse. Sports-ification of the 2 parties is a cancer. It does seem a majority of people think its all zero sum so thats a big feeder of negativity as well.

Like most things in life, things are complicated and the way through is a confluence of ideas from both sides.   

Tim Simmons

I do want to note that both parties are not 2 sides of the same coin though. In some micro aspects, sure. But on the macro, absolutely not. 

Lerxst1992

nicknyr15 said:

josevolution said:

nicknyr15 said:

People getting defensive about murder depending on what color the state votes is wild. Dem voters/republican voters both do it and it’s insane. If Chicago was a red state, this thread would be drastically different. Acting like republicans would do any better controlling the most densely populated cities is crazy. Exploiting homicide to send in the national guard and act like a hero is crazy. Everything is Weird to me. Whatever i guess 

So don’t we have to ask ourselves why we feel this way? When did this start 

That’s a great question and I don’t know. I’d assume it’s the rise of social media that plays a big part in riling everybody up about every little issue and promoting an us vs them mentality. Influencers , right and left, whose sole purpose is to anger their base and make them hate the other. I can’t imagine one party being solely responsible for every bad thing in this country. It just seems that every tragedy is an opportunity to point the finger and it disgust me. United States? No shot. Every little thing seems designed to divide us. Which I guess is natural when there are only two options. But again, I’m no expert. I hate politics. I follow loosely to not be ignorant when it comes time to exercise my right to vote. 

Using Politics as a wedge on this issue has existed  longer than social media. And questioning if Chicago were Republican misses the point. We could debate Houston and compare Houston to Chicago which would fit your parameters, but that won't get Democrats anywhere because it doesn't explain what's happening in Chicago . It's just not the same issue as Houston

 There are just too many illegal guns in Chicago to not have this debate and there is a specific reason why Chicago has this problem, it's complicated, and I don't think I've seen it discussed on this forum. Failure to understand the why is failure to ever make it better


I was attempting to frame the debate as how to make the argument to draw out the cause as to why Chicago has the unique problems it does.  the Republicans are right to argue this issue. There's just too much violence in Chicago and clearly Democratic Leadership is unable to properly explain it nationally or stop it.

Debating it is the only thing that's going to hold them accountable.

The problem is Democrats have no clue how to explain why guns are such a problem for Chicago but not as much in New York and Los angeles. Democrats need to win this debate to win elections to change laws into ones that they like. 

There's no better way to run the country unless we want King Donald to make these decisions for us

benjs

Lerxst1992 said:

nicknyr15 said:

josevolution said:

nicknyr15 said:

People getting defensive about murder depending on what color the state votes is wild. Dem voters/republican voters both do it and it’s insane. If Chicago was a red state, this thread would be drastically different. Acting like republicans would do any better controlling the most densely populated cities is crazy. Exploiting homicide to send in the national guard and act like a hero is crazy. Everything is Weird to me. Whatever i guess 

So don’t we have to ask ourselves why we feel this way? When did this start 

That’s a great question and I don’t know. I’d assume it’s the rise of social media that plays a big part in riling everybody up about every little issue and promoting an us vs them mentality. Influencers , right and left, whose sole purpose is to anger their base and make them hate the other. I can’t imagine one party being solely responsible for every bad thing in this country. It just seems that every tragedy is an opportunity to point the finger and it disgust me. United States? No shot. Every little thing seems designed to divide us. Which I guess is natural when there are only two options. But again, I’m no expert. I hate politics. I follow loosely to not be ignorant when it comes time to exercise my right to vote. 

Using Politics as a wedge on this issue has existed  longer than social media. And questioning if Chicago were Republican misses the point. We could debate Houston and compare Houston to Chicago which would fit your parameters, but that won't get Democrats anywhere because it doesn't explain what's happening in Chicago . It's just not the same issue as Houston

 There are just too many illegal guns in Chicago to not have this debate and there is a specific reason why Chicago has this problem, it's complicated, and I don't think I've seen it discussed on this forum. Failure to understand the why is failure to ever make it better


I was attempting to frame the debate as how to make the argument to draw out the cause as to why Chicago has the unique problems it does.  the Republicans are right to argue this issue. There's just too much violence in Chicago and clearly Democratic Leadership is unable to properly explain it nationally or stop it.

Debating it is the only thing that's going to hold them accountable.

The problem is Democrats have no clue how to explain why guns are such a problem for Chicago but not as much in New York and Los angeles. Democrats need to win this debate to win elections to change laws into ones that they like. 

There's no better way to run the country unless we want King Donald to make these decisions for us

I think the problem with the debate is what someone suggested to me earlier... that the counter-point (guns are pouring in from surrounding Republican states) is just nowhere near as emotionally charged as the original point (Chicago is a Democratic city with a homicide and danger problem), especially with the abundance of bad-faith arguing. It's inevitable that one of these messages will resonate more strongly than the other. 

PJ_Soul

I know I'd be just as horrified about Trump militarizing St. Louis, Memphis, Houston, or Burmingham. Surely the point is about Trump doing that, and not what city has a worse crime rate. That is actually besides the point, and I have no idea why it is being debated. Trump IS clearly targeting blue cities (first), which is also a part of the problem and concern. 

OnWis97

If you were in a Chicago suburb and decided to go to a White Sox game, I can nearly guarantee you that if you don’t come home alive, it will be due to a car crash and not person-on-person violence.  We’re not scared of danger, we’re scared of perception of danger.

Tim Simmons

Lerxst1992 said:

nicknyr15 said:

josevolution said:

nicknyr15 said:

People getting defensive about murder depending on what color the state votes is wild. Dem voters/republican voters both do it and it’s insane. If Chicago was a red state, this thread would be drastically different. Acting like republicans would do any better controlling the most densely populated cities is crazy. Exploiting homicide to send in the national guard and act like a hero is crazy. Everything is Weird to me. Whatever i guess 

So don’t we have to ask ourselves why we feel this way? When did this start 

That’s a great question and I don’t know. I’d assume it’s the rise of social media that plays a big part in riling everybody up about every little issue and promoting an us vs them mentality. Influencers , right and left, whose sole purpose is to anger their base and make them hate the other. I can’t imagine one party being solely responsible for every bad thing in this country. It just seems that every tragedy is an opportunity to point the finger and it disgust me. United States? No shot. Every little thing seems designed to divide us. Which I guess is natural when there are only two options. But again, I’m no expert. I hate politics. I follow loosely to not be ignorant when it comes time to exercise my right to vote. 

The problem is Democrats have no clue how to explain why guns are such a problem for Chicago but not as much in New York and Los angeles. Democrats need to win this debate to win elections to change laws into ones that they like. 

They actually do. Its just not a pithy soundbite or phrase. 

Tim Simmons

The annoying thing about all of this is 95% of the city and the greater area is fucking amazing. 

Go Beavers

nicknyr15 said:

josevolution said:

nicknyr15 said:

People getting defensive about murder depending on what color the state votes is wild. Dem voters/republican voters both do it and it’s insane. If Chicago was a red state, this thread would be drastically different. Acting like republicans would do any better controlling the most densely populated cities is crazy. Exploiting homicide to send in the national guard and act like a hero is crazy. Everything is Weird to me. Whatever i guess 

So don’t we have to ask ourselves why we feel this way? When did this start 

That’s a great question and I don’t know. I’d assume it’s the rise of social media that plays a big part in riling everybody up about every little issue and promoting an us vs them mentality. Influencers , right and left, whose sole purpose is to anger their base and make them hate the other. I can’t imagine one party being solely responsible for every bad thing in this country. It just seems that every tragedy is an opportunity to point the finger and it disgust me. United States? No shot. Every little thing seems designed to divide us. Which I guess is natural when there are only two options. But again, I’m no expert. I hate politics. I follow loosely to not be ignorant when it comes time to exercise my right to vote. 

It started during Obama. The narrative of “democrat run cities/states” and trying to associate any and all of societal ills with dem policies was pushed continually as a default explanation. It’s fully ingrained in nearly every republican I’ve heard who opens their mouth long enough. 

Lerxst1992

Tim Simmons said:

Lerxst1992 said:

nicknyr15 said:

josevolution said:

nicknyr15 said:

People getting defensive about murder depending on what color the state votes is wild. Dem voters/republican voters both do it and it’s insane. If Chicago was a red state, this thread would be drastically different. Acting like republicans would do any better controlling the most densely populated cities is crazy. Exploiting homicide to send in the national guard and act like a hero is crazy. Everything is Weird to me. Whatever i guess 

So don’t we have to ask ourselves why we feel this way? When did this start 

That’s a great question and I don’t know. I’d assume it’s the rise of social media that plays a big part in riling everybody up about every little issue and promoting an us vs them mentality. Influencers , right and left, whose sole purpose is to anger their base and make them hate the other. I can’t imagine one party being solely responsible for every bad thing in this country. It just seems that every tragedy is an opportunity to point the finger and it disgust me. United States? No shot. Every little thing seems designed to divide us. Which I guess is natural when there are only two options. But again, I’m no expert. I hate politics. I follow loosely to not be ignorant when it comes time to exercise my right to vote. 

The problem is Democrats have no clue how to explain why guns are such a problem for Chicago but not as much in New York and Los angeles. Democrats need to win this debate to win elections to change laws into ones that they like. 

They actually do. just not a pithy soundbite or phrase. 

 It could be a very effective anti gun debate argument, because it strikes the heart of what Republicans believe to be true about guns, especially in Chicago. Rs use this as a wedge to convince moderates that Democrats are wrong about guns while Democrats have not demonstrated a counter argument yet.

been trying to steer this debate towards that point for three days and I’m not sure one person brought this up… This reason why the gun issue is so different for Chicago versus the other big Democratic cities. Edit, Ben alluded to it but explained it away that the argument is not emotion based. If the Dems make it a passioned argument, then it would be an emotional one.

Go Beavers

Lerxst1992 said:

Tim Simmons said:

Lerxst1992 said:

nicknyr15 said:

josevolution said:

nicknyr15 said:

People getting defensive about murder depending on what color the state votes is wild. Dem voters/republican voters both do it and it’s insane. If Chicago was a red state, this thread would be drastically different. Acting like republicans would do any better controlling the most densely populated cities is crazy. Exploiting homicide to send in the national guard and act like a hero is crazy. Everything is Weird to me. Whatever i guess 

So don’t we have to ask ourselves why we feel this way? When did this start 

That’s a great question and I don’t know. I’d assume it’s the rise of social media that plays a big part in riling everybody up about every little issue and promoting an us vs them mentality. Influencers , right and left, whose sole purpose is to anger their base and make them hate the other. I can’t imagine one party being solely responsible for every bad thing in this country. It just seems that every tragedy is an opportunity to point the finger and it disgust me. United States? No shot. Every little thing seems designed to divide us. Which I guess is natural when there are only two options. But again, I’m no expert. I hate politics. I follow loosely to not be ignorant when it comes time to exercise my right to vote. 

The problem is Democrats have no clue how to explain why guns are such a problem for Chicago but not as much in New York and Los angeles. Democrats need to win this debate to win elections to change laws into ones that they like. 

They actually do. just not a pithy soundbite or phrase. 

 It could be a very effective anti gun debate argument, because it strikes the heart of what Republicans believe to be true about guns, especially in Chicago. Rs use this as a wedge to convince moderates that Democrats are wrong about guns while Democrats have not demonstrated a counter argument yet.

been trying to steer this debate towards that point for three days and I’m not sure one person brought this up… This reason why the gun issue is so different for Chicago versus the other big Democratic cities. Edit, Ben alluded to it but explained it away that the argument is not emotion based. If the Dems make it a passioned argument, then it would be an emotional one.

Fact based counter arguments with republicans are largely useless. In this case pointing out the ease to get guns in Indiana is just met with a goal post move where they blame the people themselves. E.g.: “Black people are killing black people. What are they going to do about it?” 

static111

Go Beavers said:

Lerxst1992 said:

Tim Simmons said:

Lerxst1992 said:

nicknyr15 said:

josevolution said:

nicknyr15 said:

People getting defensive about murder depending on what color the state votes is wild. Dem voters/republican voters both do it and it’s insane. If Chicago was a red state, this thread would be drastically different. Acting like republicans would do any better controlling the most densely populated cities is crazy. Exploiting homicide to send in the national guard and act like a hero is crazy. Everything is Weird to me. Whatever i guess 

So don’t we have to ask ourselves why we feel this way? When did this start 

That’s a great question and I don’t know. I’d assume it’s the rise of social media that plays a big part in riling everybody up about every little issue and promoting an us vs them mentality. Influencers , right and left, whose sole purpose is to anger their base and make them hate the other. I can’t imagine one party being solely responsible for every bad thing in this country. It just seems that every tragedy is an opportunity to point the finger and it disgust me. United States? No shot. Every little thing seems designed to divide us. Which I guess is natural when there are only two options. But again, I’m no expert. I hate politics. I follow loosely to not be ignorant when it comes time to exercise my right to vote. 

The problem is Democrats have no clue how to explain why guns are such a problem for Chicago but not as much in New York and Los angeles. Democrats need to win this debate to win elections to change laws into ones that they like. 

They actually do. just not a pithy soundbite or phrase. 

 It could be a very effective anti gun debate argument, because it strikes the heart of what Republicans believe to be true about guns, especially in Chicago. Rs use this as a wedge to convince moderates that Democrats are wrong about guns while Democrats have not demonstrated a counter argument yet.

been trying to steer this debate towards that point for three days and I’m not sure one person brought this up… This reason why the gun issue is so different for Chicago versus the other big Democratic cities. Edit, Ben alluded to it but explained it away that the argument is not emotion based. If the Dems make it a passioned argument, then it would be an emotional one.

Fact based counter arguments with republicans are largely useless. In this case pointing out the ease to get guns in Indiana is just met with a goal post move where they blame the people themselves. E.g.: “Black people are killing black people. What are they going to do about it?” 

“Dems always blame the guns, that’s evil.  It’s mental health!”

benjs

Lerxst1992 said:

Tim Simmons said:

Lerxst1992 said:

nicknyr15 said:

josevolution said:

nicknyr15 said:

People getting defensive about murder depending on what color the state votes is wild. Dem voters/republican voters both do it and it’s insane. If Chicago was a red state, this thread would be drastically different. Acting like republicans would do any better controlling the most densely populated cities is crazy. Exploiting homicide to send in the national guard and act like a hero is crazy. Everything is Weird to me. Whatever i guess 

So don’t we have to ask ourselves why we feel this way? When did this start 

That’s a great question and I don’t know. I’d assume it’s the rise of social media that plays a big part in riling everybody up about every little issue and promoting an us vs them mentality. Influencers , right and left, whose sole purpose is to anger their base and make them hate the other. I can’t imagine one party being solely responsible for every bad thing in this country. It just seems that every tragedy is an opportunity to point the finger and it disgust me. United States? No shot. Every little thing seems designed to divide us. Which I guess is natural when there are only two options. But again, I’m no expert. I hate politics. I follow loosely to not be ignorant when it comes time to exercise my right to vote. 

The problem is Democrats have no clue how to explain why guns are such a problem for Chicago but not as much in New York and Los angeles. Democrats need to win this debate to win elections to change laws into ones that they like. 

They actually do. just not a pithy soundbite or phrase. 

 It could be a very effective anti gun debate argument, because it strikes the heart of what Republicans believe to be true about guns, especially in Chicago. Rs use this as a wedge to convince moderates that Democrats are wrong about guns while Democrats have not demonstrated a counter argument yet.

been trying to steer this debate towards that point for three days and I’m not sure one person brought this up… This reason why the gun issue is so different for Chicago versus the other big Democratic cities. Edit, Ben alluded to it but explained it away that the argument is not emotion based. If the Dems make it a passioned argument, then it would be an emotional one.

I’d love to know a criticism about surrounding red states that could be more emotionally loaded to people than “there’s a massive homicide and safety issue in this large Democratic city”. My argument is pretty simple - I don’t think there’s anything Democrats could come up with (save for lying) that is more impactful than that statement from the right. There are battles the Democrats can win, but I don’t think this is one of them.

Lerxst1992

benjs said:

Lerxst1992 said:

Tim Simmons said:

Lerxst1992 said:

nicknyr15 said:

josevolution said:

nicknyr15 said:

People getting defensive about murder depending on what color the state votes is wild. Dem voters/republican voters both do it and it’s insane. If Chicago was a red state, this thread would be drastically different. Acting like republicans would do any better controlling the most densely populated cities is crazy. Exploiting homicide to send in the national guard and act like a hero is crazy. Everything is Weird to me. Whatever i guess 

So don’t we have to ask ourselves why we feel this way? When did this start 

That’s a great question and I don’t know. I’d assume it’s the rise of social media that plays a big part in riling everybody up about every little issue and promoting an us vs them mentality. Influencers , right and left, whose sole purpose is to anger their base and make them hate the other. I can’t imagine one party being solely responsible for every bad thing in this country. It just seems that every tragedy is an opportunity to point the finger and it disgust me. United States? No shot. Every little thing seems designed to divide us. Which I guess is natural when there are only two options. But again, I’m no expert. I hate politics. I follow loosely to not be ignorant when it comes time to exercise my right to vote. 

The problem is Democrats have no clue how to explain why guns are such a problem for Chicago but not as much in New York and Los angeles. Democrats need to win this debate to win elections to change laws into ones that they like. 

They actually do. just not a pithy soundbite or phrase. 

 It could be a very effective anti gun debate argument, because it strikes the heart of what Republicans believe to be true about guns, especially in Chicago. Rs use this as a wedge to convince moderates that Democrats are wrong about guns while Democrats have not demonstrated a counter argument yet.

been trying to steer this debate towards that point for three days and I’m not sure one person brought this up… This reason why the gun issue is so different for Chicago versus the other big Democratic cities. Edit, Ben alluded to it but explained it away that the argument is not emotion based. If the Dems make it a passioned argument, then it would be an emotional one.

I’d love to know a criticism about surrounding red states that could be more emotionally loaded to people than “there’s a massive homicide and safety issue in this large Democratic city”. My argument is pretty simple - I don’t think there’s anything Democrats could come up with (save for lying) that is more impactful than that statement from the right. There are battles the Democrats can win, but I don’t think this is one of them.

To win elections dems need to go after the lower information voters in the middle. Not all of them are stupid. 

To breakthrough The Republicans bully pulpit, They need to make this argument. Nonstop hammer away. 

Let everyone know that there is a coordinator pipeline smuggling guns from surrounding red states. Point out states out by name. Point out the manufacturers that allow this to happen and where they are located. Show pictures of press conferences, and in their advertisements. Keep at it.  Day after day after day after day after day until everybody knows what their argument is.

 This is why Democrats are terrible at messaging. They are too busy, clutching their pearls and thinking they are superior to everyone else (amt?) instead of getting on the ground and making difficult arguments over and over and over again 

static111

Lerxst1992 said:

benjs said:

Lerxst1992 said:

Tim Simmons said:

Lerxst1992 said:

nicknyr15 said:

josevolution said:

nicknyr15 said:

People getting defensive about murder depending on what color the state votes is wild. Dem voters/republican voters both do it and it’s insane. If Chicago was a red state, this thread would be drastically different. Acting like republicans would do any better controlling the most densely populated cities is crazy. Exploiting homicide to send in the national guard and act like a hero is crazy. Everything is Weird to me. Whatever i guess 

So don’t we have to ask ourselves why we feel this way? When did this start 

That’s a great question and I don’t know. I’d assume it’s the rise of social media that plays a big part in riling everybody up about every little issue and promoting an us vs them mentality. Influencers , right and left, whose sole purpose is to anger their base and make them hate the other. I can’t imagine one party being solely responsible for every bad thing in this country. It just seems that every tragedy is an opportunity to point the finger and it disgust me. United States? No shot. Every little thing seems designed to divide us. Which I guess is natural when there are only two options. But again, I’m no expert. I hate politics. I follow loosely to not be ignorant when it comes time to exercise my right to vote. 

The problem is Democrats have no clue how to explain why guns are such a problem for Chicago but not as much in New York and Los angeles. Democrats need to win this debate to win elections to change laws into ones that they like. 

They actually do. just not a pithy soundbite or phrase. 

 It could be a very effective anti gun debate argument, because it strikes the heart of what Republicans believe to be true about guns, especially in Chicago. Rs use this as a wedge to convince moderates that Democrats are wrong about guns while Democrats have not demonstrated a counter argument yet.

been trying to steer this debate towards that point for three days and I’m not sure one person brought this up… This reason why the gun issue is so different for Chicago versus the other big Democratic cities. Edit, Ben alluded to it but explained it away that the argument is not emotion based. If the Dems make it a passioned argument, then it would be an emotional one.

I’d love to know a criticism about surrounding red states that could be more emotionally loaded to people than “there’s a massive homicide and safety issue in this large Democratic city”. My argument is pretty simple - I don’t think there’s anything Democrats could come up with (save for lying) that is more impactful than that statement from the right. There are battles the Democrats can win, but I don’t think this is one of them.

To win elections dems need to go after the lower information voters in the middle. Not all of them are stupid. 

To breakthrough The Republicans bully pulpit, They need to make this argument. Nonstop hammer away. 

Let everyone know that there is a coordinator pipeline smuggling guns from surrounding red states. Point out states out by name. Point out the manufacturers that allow this to happen and where they are located. Show pictures of press conferences, and in their advertisements. Keep at it.  Day after day after day after day after day until everybody knows what their argument is.

 This is why Democrats are terrible at messaging. They are too busy, clutching their pearls and thinking they are superior to everyone else (amt?) instead of getting on the ground and making difficult arguments over and over and over again 

Where have you been? Dems have lost the gun control argument when it comes to the polls.  Anything they say gets so twisted and warped and turned into they are going to take away your guns and usher in a rainbow socialist totalitarian government.  There are things Dems can win, but going after guns is a loss, until the gun crime to stupid threshold is met.

Lerxst1992

static111 said:

Lerxst1992 said:

benjs said:

Lerxst1992 said:

Tim Simmons said:

Lerxst1992 said:

nicknyr15 said:

josevolution said:

nicknyr15 said:

People getting defensive about murder depending on what color the state votes is wild. Dem voters/republican voters both do it and it’s insane. If Chicago was a red state, this thread would be drastically different. Acting like republicans would do any better controlling the most densely populated cities is crazy. Exploiting homicide to send in the national guard and act like a hero is crazy. Everything is Weird to me. Whatever i guess 

So don’t we have to ask ourselves why we feel this way? When did this start 

That’s a great question and I don’t know. I’d assume it’s the rise of social media that plays a big part in riling everybody up about every little issue and promoting an us vs them mentality. Influencers , right and left, whose sole purpose is to anger their base and make them hate the other. I can’t imagine one party being solely responsible for every bad thing in this country. It just seems that every tragedy is an opportunity to point the finger and it disgust me. United States? No shot. Every little thing seems designed to divide us. Which I guess is natural when there are only two options. But again, I’m no expert. I hate politics. I follow loosely to not be ignorant when it comes time to exercise my right to vote. 

The problem is Democrats have no clue how to explain why guns are such a problem for Chicago but not as much in New York and Los angeles. Democrats need to win this debate to win elections to change laws into ones that they like. 

They actually do. just not a pithy soundbite or phrase. 

 It could be a very effective anti gun debate argument, because it strikes the heart of what Republicans believe to be true about guns, especially in Chicago. Rs use this as a wedge to convince moderates that Democrats are wrong about guns while Democrats have not demonstrated a counter argument yet.

been trying to steer this debate towards that point for three days and I’m not sure one person brought this up… This reason why the gun issue is so different for Chicago versus the other big Democratic cities. Edit, Ben alluded to it but explained it away that the argument is not emotion based. If the Dems make it a passioned argument, then it would be an emotional one.

I’d love to know a criticism about surrounding red states that could be more emotionally loaded to people than “there’s a massive homicide and safety issue in this large Democratic city”. My argument is pretty simple - I don’t think there’s anything Democrats could come up with (save for lying) that is more impactful than that statement from the right. There are battles the Democrats can win, but I don’t think this is one of them.

To win elections dems need to go after the lower information voters in the middle. Not all of them are stupid. 

To breakthrough The Republicans bully pulpit, They need to make this argument. Nonstop hammer away. 

Let everyone know that there is a coordinator pipeline smuggling guns from surrounding red states. Point out states out by name. Point out the manufacturers that allow this to happen and where they are located. Show pictures of press conferences, and in their advertisements. Keep at it.  Day after day after day after day after day until everybody knows what their argument is.

 This is why Democrats are terrible at messaging. They are too busy, clutching their pearls and thinking they are superior to everyone else (amt?) instead of getting on the ground and making difficult arguments over and over and over again 

Where have you been? Dems have lost the gun control argument when it comes to the polls.  Anything they say gets so twisted and warped and turned into they are going to take away your guns and usher in a rainbow socialist totalitarian government.  There are things Dems can win, but going after guns is a loss, until the gun crime to stupid threshold is met.

That’s it exactly. They can’t win a debate with republicans, even when facts support them. If they can’t win this one, perhaps it’s best for them to focus on the debates they can win?

Halifax2TheMax

Lerxst1992 said:

static111 said:

Lerxst1992 said:

benjs said:

Lerxst1992 said:

Tim Simmons said:

Lerxst1992 said:

nicknyr15 said:

josevolution said:

nicknyr15 said:

People getting defensive about murder depending on what color the state votes is wild. Dem voters/republican voters both do it and it’s insane. If Chicago was a red state, this thread would be drastically different. Acting like republicans would do any better controlling the most densely populated cities is crazy. Exploiting homicide to send in the national guard and act like a hero is crazy. Everything is Weird to me. Whatever i guess 

So don’t we have to ask ourselves why we feel this way? When did this start 

That’s a great question and I don’t know. I’d assume it’s the rise of social media that plays a big part in riling everybody up about every little issue and promoting an us vs them mentality. Influencers , right and left, whose sole purpose is to anger their base and make them hate the other. I can’t imagine one party being solely responsible for every bad thing in this country. It just seems that every tragedy is an opportunity to point the finger and it disgust me. United States? No shot. Every little thing seems designed to divide us. Which I guess is natural when there are only two options. But again, I’m no expert. I hate politics. I follow loosely to not be ignorant when it comes time to exercise my right to vote. 

The problem is Democrats have no clue how to explain why guns are such a problem for Chicago but not as much in New York and Los angeles. Democrats need to win this debate to win elections to change laws into ones that they like. 

They actually do. just not a pithy soundbite or phrase. 

 It could be a very effective anti gun debate argument, because it strikes the heart of what Republicans believe to be true about guns, especially in Chicago. Rs use this as a wedge to convince moderates that Democrats are wrong about guns while Democrats have not demonstrated a counter argument yet.

been trying to steer this debate towards that point for three days and I’m not sure one person brought this up… This reason why the gun issue is so different for Chicago versus the other big Democratic cities. Edit, Ben alluded to it but explained it away that the argument is not emotion based. If the Dems make it a passioned argument, then it would be an emotional one.

I’d love to know a criticism about surrounding red states that could be more emotionally loaded to people than “there’s a massive homicide and safety issue in this large Democratic city”. My argument is pretty simple - I don’t think there’s anything Democrats could come up with (save for lying) that is more impactful than that statement from the right. There are battles the Democrats can win, but I don’t think this is one of them.

To win elections dems need to go after the lower information voters in the middle. Not all of them are stupid. 

To breakthrough The Republicans bully pulpit, They need to make this argument. Nonstop hammer away. 

Let everyone know that there is a coordinator pipeline smuggling guns from surrounding red states. Point out states out by name. Point out the manufacturers that allow this to happen and where they are located. Show pictures of press conferences, and in their advertisements. Keep at it.  Day after day after day after day after day until everybody knows what their argument is.

 This is why Democrats are terrible at messaging. They are too busy, clutching their pearls and thinking they are superior to everyone else (amt?) instead of getting on the ground and making difficult arguments over and over and over again 

Where have you been? Dems have lost the gun control argument when it comes to the polls.  Anything they say gets so twisted and warped and turned into they are going to take away your guns and usher in a rainbow socialist totalitarian government.  There are things Dems can win, but going after guns is a loss, until the gun crime to stupid threshold is met.

That’s it exactly. They can’t win a debate with republicans, even when facts support them. If they can’t win this one, perhaps it’s best for them to focus on the debates they can win?

“They’re eating the cats. They’re eating the dogs. They’re eating the pets of the people who live there.”

Can’t fix stupid.