Immigration

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  • Get_Right
    Get_Right Posts: 14,681
    edited January 12
    HughFreakingDillon said:
    Get_Right said:
    I will not comment on the legality of the lethal force used. But I am constantly amazed by how people have total disregard for law enforcement instructions and encounters. Not just ICE. Take it too far and it will not end well for you. And that applies to US citizens as well. If she stopped the SUV would we be talking about lethal force? 
    they were illegally trying to enter her vehicle. they have no jurisdiction over US citizens. 

    That is not correct. If she followed their instructions we would not be having this conversation.  
  • HughFreakingDillon
    HughFreakingDillon Posts: 41,094
    Get_Right said:
    HughFreakingDillon said:
    Get_Right said:
    I will not comment on the legality of the lethal force used. But I am constantly amazed by how people have total disregard for law enforcement instructions and encounters. Not just ICE. Take it too far and it will not end well for you. And that applies to US citizens as well. If she stopped the SUV would we be talking about lethal force? 
    they were illegally trying to enter her vehicle. they have no jurisdiction over US citizens. 

    That is not correct. If she followed their instructions we would not be having this conversation.  
    "if she had just listened to her husband maybe she wouldn't have been slapped around"
    Your boos mean nothing to me, for I have seen what makes you cheer



  • Halifax2TheMax
    Halifax2TheMax Posts: 43,976

    * The following opinion is mine and mine alone and does not represent the views of my family, friends, government and/or my past, present or future employer. US Department of State: 1-888-407-4747.

    “Instructions” are not the law.

    I’ll give you an example: law enforcement officers: let me into your house/vehicle! Victim: no. LEO: fuck you, you’re dead.

    Good fucking lord.

    09/15/1998 & 09/16/1998, Mansfield, MA; 08/29/00 08/30/00, Mansfield, MA; 07/02/03, 07/03/03, Mansfield, MA; 09/28/04, 09/29/04, Boston, MA; 09/22/05, Halifax, NS; 05/24/06, 05/25/06, Boston, MA; 07/22/06, 07/23/06, Gorge, WA; 06/27/2008, Hartford; 06/28/08, 06/30/08, Mansfield; 08/18/2009, O2, London, UK; 10/30/09, 10/31/09, Philadelphia, PA; 05/15/10, Hartford, CT; 05/17/10, Boston, MA; 05/20/10, 05/21/10, NY, NY; 06/22/10, Dublin, IRE; 06/23/10, Northern Ireland; 09/03/11, 09/04/11, Alpine Valley, WI; 09/11/11, 09/12/11, Toronto, Ont; 09/14/11, Ottawa, Ont; 09/15/11, Hamilton, Ont; 07/02/2012, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/04/2012 & 07/05/2012, Berlin, Germany; 07/07/2012, Stockholm, Sweden; 09/30/2012, Missoula, MT; 07/16/2013, London, Ont; 07/19/2013, Chicago, IL; 10/15/2013 & 10/16/2013, Worcester, MA; 10/21/2013 & 10/22/2013, Philadelphia, PA; 10/25/2013, Hartford, CT; 11/29/2013, Portland, OR; 11/30/2013, Spokane, WA; 12/04/2013, Vancouver, BC; 12/06/2013, Seattle, WA; 10/03/2014, St. Louis. MO; 10/22/2014, Denver, CO; 10/26/2015, New York, NY; 04/23/2016, New Orleans, LA; 04/28/2016 & 04/29/2016, Philadelphia, PA; 05/01/2016 & 05/02/2016, New York, NY; 05/08/2016, Ottawa, Ont.; 05/10/2016 & 05/12/2016, Toronto, Ont.; 08/05/2016 & 08/07/2016, Boston, MA; 08/20/2016 & 08/22/2016, Chicago, IL; 07/01/2018, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/03/2018, Krakow, Poland; 07/05/2018, Berlin, Germany; 09/02/2018 & 09/04/2018, Boston, MA; 09/08/2022, Toronto, Ont; 09/11/2022, New York, NY; 09/14/2022, Camden, NJ; 09/02/2023, St. Paul, MN; 05/04/2024 & 05/06/2024, Vancouver, BC; 05/10/2024, Portland, OR; 05/03/2025, New Orleans, LA;

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  • HughFreakingDillon
    HughFreakingDillon Posts: 41,094
    ICE does not have legal authority to detain US citizens. that is correct. 
    Your boos mean nothing to me, for I have seen what makes you cheer



  • Tim Simmons
    Tim Simmons Posts: 10,753
    edited January 12
    Get_Right said:
    I will not comment on the legality of the lethal force used. But I am constantly amazed by how people have total disregard for law enforcement instructions and encounters. Not just ICE. Take it too far and it will not end well for you. And that applies to US citizens as well. If she stopped the SUV would we be talking about lethal force? 
    I think if law enforcement were completely forthright and followed the law and training to a T you would have a point. But bad apples have spoiled the batch and now people sometimes do have legitimate reasons to question and push back. They created a culture that is distrustful of their motives and actions. 

    Plus rebelliousness and Don’t Tread on Me-ness is baked into the country’s DNA. So it shouldn’t be that surprising. 


    To say nothing of the slippery slope of the “just do what they tell you and everything will be fine and they won’t take a mile when you give them an inch” 
    Post edited by Tim Simmons on
  • mace1229
    mace1229 Posts: 10,147
    mickeyrat said:
    mace1229 said:
    mickeyrat said:

    That doesn’t appear to be accurate.
    ” Its agents have the power to stop, detain and arrest people they suspect of being in the US illegally. They can detain US citizens in limited circumstances, such as if a person interferes with an arrest, assaults an officer, or ICE suspect the person of being in the US illegally.”


    mace1229 said:
    mickeyrat said:

    That doesn’t appear to be accurate.
    ” Its agents have the power to stop, detain and arrest people they suspect of being in the US illegally. They can detain US citizens in limited circumstances, such as if a person interferes with an arrest, assaults an officer, or ICE suspect the person of being in the US illegally.”


    and that meme doesnt suggest otherwise. you're inferring that assertion.
    Read what you posted again. It literally says twice “ice cannot detain a US citizen” and says they have no authority over us citizens. 
    You’re right, it doesn’t just suggest otherwise. It directly (and incorrectly) flat out says otherwise.
  • HughFreakingDillon
    HughFreakingDillon Posts: 41,094
    how the ICE officer conducted himself was clearly illegal. But hey, let's keep yammering on about how Renee should have just complied. 

    https://www.facebook.com/share/16x796noAQ/
    Your boos mean nothing to me, for I have seen what makes you cheer



  • Tim Simmons
    Tim Simmons Posts: 10,753
    edited January 12
    .
  • gimmesometruth27
    gimmesometruth27 St. Fuckin Louis Posts: 25,655
    josevolution said:
    Tim Simmons said:
    Was just behind a guy with a Biden/Harris bumper sticker and he turned without using his turn signal. Awful. Dems try this crap in November they’ll be handing the midterms they should win over to the Rs.
    Did you flip him the bird 😂😂
    a true hoss would have shot him and then made a video from the front seat of his pickup truck about it.
    "You can tell the greatness of a man by what makes him angry."  - Lincoln

    "Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
  • gimmesometruth27
    gimmesometruth27 St. Fuckin Louis Posts: 25,655
    Get_Right said:
    Tim Simmons said:
    Was just behind a guy with a Biden/Harris bumper sticker and he turned without using his turn signal. Awful. Dems try this crap in November they’ll be handing the midterms they should win over to the Rs.

    The lack of turn signal use is an epidemic. I just yell "bad driver!" Maybe they should add that to their platforms. 
    i just give people the thumbs down. it is safer than flipping them off. some even laugh when i do it.
    "You can tell the greatness of a man by what makes him angry."  - Lincoln

    "Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
  • Get_Right
    Get_Right Posts: 14,681
    Halifax2TheMax said:

    * The following opinion is mine and mine alone and does not represent the views of my family, friends, government and/or my past, present or future employer. US Department of State: 1-888-407-4747.

    “Instructions” are not the law.

    I’ll give you an example: law enforcement officers: let me into your house/vehicle! Victim: no. LEO: fuck you, you’re dead.

    Good fucking lord.


    Instructions are law enforcement procedures to conduct a legal investigation and protect the officers. It is state specific. Follow them or you might get an obstruction of justice charge. Or maybe a disorderly conduct charge. That can lead to a right to detain, search, or even put you in a jail. And that is the law. It is not a decision on the merits of your case. And let's be clear, I do not advocate that level of force, it could have been avoided on both sides. ICE has a bit more discretion if a person cannot be identified. And yes there are some douchebag officers out there that test the limits of search rules, Miranda rights and the use of force. If you find yourself being stopped, detained or in cuffs, provide your ID and keep your mouth shut.
  • gimmesometruth27
    gimmesometruth27 St. Fuckin Louis Posts: 25,655
    Get_Right said:
    Halifax2TheMax said:

    * The following opinion is mine and mine alone and does not represent the views of my family, friends, government and/or my past, present or future employer. US Department of State: 1-888-407-4747.

    “Instructions” are not the law.

    I’ll give you an example: law enforcement officers: let me into your house/vehicle! Victim: no. LEO: fuck you, you’re dead.

    Good fucking lord.


    Instructions are law enforcement procedures to conduct a legal investigation and protect the officers. It is state specific. Follow them or you might get an obstruction of justice charge. Or maybe a disorderly conduct charge. That can lead to a right to detain, search, or even put you in a jail. And that is the law. It is not a decision on the merits of your case. And let's be clear, I do not advocate that level of force, it could have been avoided on both sides. ICE has a bit more discretion if a person cannot be identified. And yes there are some douchebag officers out there that test the limits of search rules, Miranda rights and the use of force. If you find yourself being stopped, detained or in cuffs, provide your ID and keep your mouth shut.
    no, know your rights, and calmly inform the ice agent that you know your rights, and that you are not doing anything without consulting your attorney, whose number is stored in your phone contacts. also, record the entire encounter, and tell them that you are recording it.
    "You can tell the greatness of a man by what makes him angry."  - Lincoln

    "Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
  • mace1229
    mace1229 Posts: 10,147
    HughFreakingDillon said:
    Get_Right said:
    I will not comment on the legality of the lethal force used. But I am constantly amazed by how people have total disregard for law enforcement instructions and encounters. Not just ICE. Take it too far and it will not end well for you. And that applies to US citizens as well. If she stopped the SUV would we be talking about lethal force? 
    they were illegally trying to enter her vehicle. they have no jurisdiction over US citizens. 
    Every time I’ve looked it up I see that ice can detain and arrest a citizen who assaults, impedes and refuses a lawful order of an agent. I don’t know where this notion of they can’t touch a citizen is coming from, but it doesn’t seem to be true.
  • gimmesometruth27
    gimmesometruth27 St. Fuckin Louis Posts: 25,655
    mace1229 said:
    HughFreakingDillon said:
    Get_Right said:
    I will not comment on the legality of the lethal force used. But I am constantly amazed by how people have total disregard for law enforcement instructions and encounters. Not just ICE. Take it too far and it will not end well for you. And that applies to US citizens as well. If she stopped the SUV would we be talking about lethal force? 
    they were illegally trying to enter her vehicle. they have no jurisdiction over US citizens. 
    Every time I’ve looked it up I see that ice can detain and arrest a citizen who assaults, impedes and refuses a lawful order of an agent. I don’t know where this notion of they can’t touch a citizen is coming from, but it doesn’t seem to be true.
    their name is

    immigration and customs enforcement.
    "You can tell the greatness of a man by what makes him angry."  - Lincoln

    "Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
  • Halifax2TheMax
    Halifax2TheMax Posts: 43,976
    Get_Right said:
    Halifax2TheMax said:

    * The following opinion is mine and mine alone and does not represent the views of my family, friends, government and/or my past, present or future employer. US Department of State: 1-888-407-4747.

    “Instructions” are not the law.

    I’ll give you an example: law enforcement officers: let me into your house/vehicle! Victim: no. LEO: fuck you, you’re dead.

    Good fucking lord.


    Instructions are law enforcement procedures to conduct a legal investigation and protect the officers. It is state specific. Follow them or you might get an obstruction of justice charge. Or maybe a disorderly conduct charge. That can lead to a right to detain, search, or even put you in a jail. And that is the law. It is not a decision on the merits of your case. And let's be clear, I do not advocate that level of force, it could have been avoided on both sides. ICE has a bit more discretion if a person cannot be identified. And yes there are some douchebag officers out there that test the limits of search rules, Miranda rights and the use of force. If you find yourself being stopped, detained or in cuffs, provide your ID and keep your mouth shut.

    * The following opinion is mine and mine alone and does not represent the views of my family, friends, government and/or my past, present or future employer. US Department of State: 1-888-407-4747.

    You forgot “lawful” before instructions.

    ICE agents are not state law enforcement and have a very specific charter.

    So, should the Somali Uber driver be shot, roughed up, neck kneeled on, arrested? LEO need lawful, reasonable suspicion, not skin color or because their feelings were hurt.

    You should be advocating for the elected members of the administration, their appointees and those that serve under them abide by and follow the law and constitution, and not put the onus on those that they swore to protect. That you don’t, is telling.

    And folks wonder how it could happen here.

    09/15/1998 & 09/16/1998, Mansfield, MA; 08/29/00 08/30/00, Mansfield, MA; 07/02/03, 07/03/03, Mansfield, MA; 09/28/04, 09/29/04, Boston, MA; 09/22/05, Halifax, NS; 05/24/06, 05/25/06, Boston, MA; 07/22/06, 07/23/06, Gorge, WA; 06/27/2008, Hartford; 06/28/08, 06/30/08, Mansfield; 08/18/2009, O2, London, UK; 10/30/09, 10/31/09, Philadelphia, PA; 05/15/10, Hartford, CT; 05/17/10, Boston, MA; 05/20/10, 05/21/10, NY, NY; 06/22/10, Dublin, IRE; 06/23/10, Northern Ireland; 09/03/11, 09/04/11, Alpine Valley, WI; 09/11/11, 09/12/11, Toronto, Ont; 09/14/11, Ottawa, Ont; 09/15/11, Hamilton, Ont; 07/02/2012, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/04/2012 & 07/05/2012, Berlin, Germany; 07/07/2012, Stockholm, Sweden; 09/30/2012, Missoula, MT; 07/16/2013, London, Ont; 07/19/2013, Chicago, IL; 10/15/2013 & 10/16/2013, Worcester, MA; 10/21/2013 & 10/22/2013, Philadelphia, PA; 10/25/2013, Hartford, CT; 11/29/2013, Portland, OR; 11/30/2013, Spokane, WA; 12/04/2013, Vancouver, BC; 12/06/2013, Seattle, WA; 10/03/2014, St. Louis. MO; 10/22/2014, Denver, CO; 10/26/2015, New York, NY; 04/23/2016, New Orleans, LA; 04/28/2016 & 04/29/2016, Philadelphia, PA; 05/01/2016 & 05/02/2016, New York, NY; 05/08/2016, Ottawa, Ont.; 05/10/2016 & 05/12/2016, Toronto, Ont.; 08/05/2016 & 08/07/2016, Boston, MA; 08/20/2016 & 08/22/2016, Chicago, IL; 07/01/2018, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/03/2018, Krakow, Poland; 07/05/2018, Berlin, Germany; 09/02/2018 & 09/04/2018, Boston, MA; 09/08/2022, Toronto, Ont; 09/11/2022, New York, NY; 09/14/2022, Camden, NJ; 09/02/2023, St. Paul, MN; 05/04/2024 & 05/06/2024, Vancouver, BC; 05/10/2024, Portland, OR; 05/03/2025, New Orleans, LA;

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  • Get_Right
    Get_Right Posts: 14,681
    gimmesometruth27 said:
    Get_Right said:
    Halifax2TheMax said:

    * The following opinion is mine and mine alone and does not represent the views of my family, friends, government and/or my past, present or future employer. US Department of State: 1-888-407-4747.

    “Instructions” are not the law.

    I’ll give you an example: law enforcement officers: let me into your house/vehicle! Victim: no. LEO: fuck you, you’re dead.

    Good fucking lord.


    Instructions are law enforcement procedures to conduct a legal investigation and protect the officers. It is state specific. Follow them or you might get an obstruction of justice charge. Or maybe a disorderly conduct charge. That can lead to a right to detain, search, or even put you in a jail. And that is the law. It is not a decision on the merits of your case. And let's be clear, I do not advocate that level of force, it could have been avoided on both sides. ICE has a bit more discretion if a person cannot be identified. And yes there are some douchebag officers out there that test the limits of search rules, Miranda rights and the use of force. If you find yourself being stopped, detained or in cuffs, provide your ID and keep your mouth shut.
    no, know your rights, and calmly inform the ice agent that you know your rights, and that you are not doing anything without consulting your attorney, whose number is stored in your phone contacts. also, record the entire encounter, and tell them that you are recording it.

    And what are your rights when you have a law enforcement encounter? They are not as far reaching as you think when it comes to face to face encounters. Citing your constitutional rights or due process rights will not get you out of cuffs. They will take you in and give you your phone call when they are good and ready. Housing or transporting immigrants? Accusations of domestic violence? Smell of marijuana? Suspicion of intoxication? Drug trafficking? Endangerment of minors? Suspicion of possessing firearms or other weapons? No warrant required in many cases. They all use body cams these days. You can request a warrant and they will get one if they agree there is no immediate threat, but it is not hard to develop a reason to enter a vehicle or premises without a warrant. The legality gets determined after the fact.
  • mace1229
    mace1229 Posts: 10,147
    gimmesometruth27 said:
    mace1229 said:
    HughFreakingDillon said:
    Get_Right said:
    I will not comment on the legality of the lethal force used. But I am constantly amazed by how people have total disregard for law enforcement instructions and encounters. Not just ICE. Take it too far and it will not end well for you. And that applies to US citizens as well. If she stopped the SUV would we be talking about lethal force? 
    they were illegally trying to enter her vehicle. they have no jurisdiction over US citizens. 
    Every time I’ve looked it up I see that ice can detain and arrest a citizen who assaults, impedes and refuses a lawful order of an agent. I don’t know where this notion of they can’t touch a citizen is coming from, but it doesn’t seem to be true.
    their name is

    immigration and customs enforcement.
    That is correct. They are also federal agents. It is a federal crime and a felony to assault or impede a federal officers. All those people who have thrown objects at them have technically committed federal crimes and could have been arrested by the ice agents. They do have jurisdiction over citizens if you commit a federal crime against them.
  • mace1229
    mace1229 Posts: 10,147
    edited January 12
    gimmesometruth27 said:
    Get_Right said:
    Halifax2TheMax said:

    * The following opinion is mine and mine alone and does not represent the views of my family, friends, government and/or my past, present or future employer. US Department of State: 1-888-407-4747.

    “Instructions” are not the law.

    I’ll give you an example: law enforcement officers: let me into your house/vehicle! Victim: no. LEO: fuck you, you’re dead.

    Good fucking lord.


    Instructions are law enforcement procedures to conduct a legal investigation and protect the officers. It is state specific. Follow them or you might get an obstruction of justice charge. Or maybe a disorderly conduct charge. That can lead to a right to detain, search, or even put you in a jail. And that is the law. It is not a decision on the merits of your case. And let's be clear, I do not advocate that level of force, it could have been avoided on both sides. ICE has a bit more discretion if a person cannot be identified. And yes there are some douchebag officers out there that test the limits of search rules, Miranda rights and the use of force. If you find yourself being stopped, detained or in cuffs, provide your ID and keep your mouth shut.
    no, know your rights, and calmly inform the ice agent that you know your rights, and that you are not doing anything without consulting your attorney, whose number is stored in your phone contacts. also, record the entire encounter, and tell them that you are recording it.
    That is not correct. Your rights to remain silent and an attorney do not mean you don’t have to comply with law enforcement orders. You can receive additional charges, such as resisting arrest, if you don’t comply.

    Now, to be clear, I disagree with the shooting and other things that have happened. I’m not justifying that. Just correcting the idea that you don’t have to listen to law enforcement orders or ice. If you impede their duty they can arrest you. If you resist, that can be additional charges.
  • mickeyrat
    mickeyrat Posts: 46,379
    mace1229 said:
    gimmesometruth27 said:
    Get_Right said:
    Halifax2TheMax said:

    * The following opinion is mine and mine alone and does not represent the views of my family, friends, government and/or my past, present or future employer. US Department of State: 1-888-407-4747.

    “Instructions” are not the law.

    I’ll give you an example: law enforcement officers: let me into your house/vehicle! Victim: no. LEO: fuck you, you’re dead.

    Good fucking lord.


    Instructions are law enforcement procedures to conduct a legal investigation and protect the officers. It is state specific. Follow them or you might get an obstruction of justice charge. Or maybe a disorderly conduct charge. That can lead to a right to detain, search, or even put you in a jail. And that is the law. It is not a decision on the merits of your case. And let's be clear, I do not advocate that level of force, it could have been avoided on both sides. ICE has a bit more discretion if a person cannot be identified. And yes there are some douchebag officers out there that test the limits of search rules, Miranda rights and the use of force. If you find yourself being stopped, detained or in cuffs, provide your ID and keep your mouth shut.
    no, know your rights, and calmly inform the ice agent that you know your rights, and that you are not doing anything without consulting your attorney, whose number is stored in your phone contacts. also, record the entire encounter, and tell them that you are recording it.
    That is not correct. Your rights to remain silent and an attorney do not mean you don’t have to comply with law enforcement orders. You can receive additional charges, such as resisting arrest, if you don’t comply.

    Now, to be clear, I disagree with the shooting and other things that have happened. I’m not justifying that. Just correcting the idea that you don’t have to listen to law enforcement orders or ice. If you impede their duty they can arrest you. If you resist, that can be additional charges.
    gemini ai was asked to cite  dhs links about detention of us citizens

    answer

    Below are the direct links and key excerpts from the Department of Homeland Security (DHS) and U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE) regarding the detention and arrest of U.S. citizens.
    1. Primary Policy: ICE Directive 16001.2
    This is the central governing document that dictates how ICE agents must handle individuals who claim to be U.S. citizens or show signs of being one.
     * Official Document: ICE Directive 16001.2: Investigating the Potential U.S. Citizenship of Individuals Encountered by ICE
     * Key Policy Point (Section 2): "As a matter of law, ICE cannot assert its civil immigration enforcement authority to arrest and/or detain a U.S. citizen."
     * Key Procedure (Section 5): It mandates that agents must "immediately and carefully" investigate any claim of U.S. citizenship and prohibits lodging a detainer against anyone with "probative evidence" of citizenship.
    2. DHS Official Position on Enforcement Operations
    In response to reports of wrongful arrests, DHS issued formal statements clarifying their operational limits regarding U.S. citizens.
     * DHS News Release: DHS Debunks False Reporting: DHS Does NOT Deport U.S. Citizens
     * Direct Quote: "ICE does NOT arrest or deport U.S. citizens... our law enforcement is trained to ask a series of well-determined questions to determine status and removability."
     * Exception Note: The policy clarifies that U.S. citizens can still be arrested if they "actively obstruct" law enforcement or commit other federal/local crimes unrelated to immigration status.
    3. Immigration Detainers Policy
    This policy explains the "Probable Cause" requirement needed before ICE can ask local jails to hold someone.
     * Official Page: ICE Policy on Immigration Detainers
     * Key Policy Point: ICE policy requires a finding of probable cause to believe a subject is a removable alien before a detainer can be issued. Since U.S. citizens are not removable, a detainer issued against one is a violation of this policy.
    4. Congressional Records and Summaries
    For a more detailed legal breakdown of how these policies are monitored by Congress, you can view the Congressional Research Service (CRS) reports:
     * CRS Report: Immigration Arrests in the Interior of the United States: A Primer
     * Congressional Hearing Record: Acting Secretary Testimony on U.S. Citizens Detained (Includes ICE's formal answers to Congress regarding the protocol for releasing citizens).
    Summary of Your Rights Based on These Policies:
     * No Obligation to Carry Papers: Under these policies, U.S. citizens are not required to carry proof of citizenship while traveling within the U.S. interior.
     * Right to Investigation: If you are stopped, Directive 16001.2 grants you the right to an "expeditious investigation" of your status if you claim citizenship.
     * Immediate Release: Once citizenship is verified, the agency is policy-bound to release the individual immediately.


    _____________________________________SIGNATURE________________________________________________

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  • Halifax2TheMax
    Halifax2TheMax Posts: 43,976
    mickeyrat said:
    mace1229 said:
    gimmesometruth27 said:
    Get_Right said:
    Halifax2TheMax said:

    * The following opinion is mine and mine alone and does not represent the views of my family, friends, government and/or my past, present or future employer. US Department of State: 1-888-407-4747.

    “Instructions” are not the law.

    I’ll give you an example: law enforcement officers: let me into your house/vehicle! Victim: no. LEO: fuck you, you’re dead.

    Good fucking lord.


    Instructions are law enforcement procedures to conduct a legal investigation and protect the officers. It is state specific. Follow them or you might get an obstruction of justice charge. Or maybe a disorderly conduct charge. That can lead to a right to detain, search, or even put you in a jail. And that is the law. It is not a decision on the merits of your case. And let's be clear, I do not advocate that level of force, it could have been avoided on both sides. ICE has a bit more discretion if a person cannot be identified. And yes there are some douchebag officers out there that test the limits of search rules, Miranda rights and the use of force. If you find yourself being stopped, detained or in cuffs, provide your ID and keep your mouth shut.
    no, know your rights, and calmly inform the ice agent that you know your rights, and that you are not doing anything without consulting your attorney, whose number is stored in your phone contacts. also, record the entire encounter, and tell them that you are recording it.
    That is not correct. Your rights to remain silent and an attorney do not mean you don’t have to comply with law enforcement orders. You can receive additional charges, such as resisting arrest, if you don’t comply.

    Now, to be clear, I disagree with the shooting and other things that have happened. I’m not justifying that. Just correcting the idea that you don’t have to listen to law enforcement orders or ice. If you impede their duty they can arrest you. If you resist, that can be additional charges.
    gemini ai was asked to cite  dhs links about detention of us citizens

    answer

    Below are the direct links and key excerpts from the Department of Homeland Security (DHS) and U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE) regarding the detention and arrest of U.S. citizens.
    1. Primary Policy: ICE Directive 16001.2
    This is the central governing document that dictates how ICE agents must handle individuals who claim to be U.S. citizens or show signs of being one.
     * Official Document: ICE Directive 16001.2: Investigating the Potential U.S. Citizenship of Individuals Encountered by ICE
     * Key Policy Point (Section 2): "As a matter of law, ICE cannot assert its civil immigration enforcement authority to arrest and/or detain a U.S. citizen."
     * Key Procedure (Section 5): It mandates that agents must "immediately and carefully" investigate any claim of U.S. citizenship and prohibits lodging a detainer against anyone with "probative evidence" of citizenship.
    2. DHS Official Position on Enforcement Operations
    In response to reports of wrongful arrests, DHS issued formal statements clarifying their operational limits regarding U.S. citizens.
     * DHS News Release: DHS Debunks False Reporting: DHS Does NOT Deport U.S. Citizens
     * Direct Quote: "ICE does NOT arrest or deport U.S. citizens... our law enforcement is trained to ask a series of well-determined questions to determine status and removability."
     * Exception Note: The policy clarifies that U.S. citizens can still be arrested if they "actively obstruct" law enforcement or commit other federal/local crimes unrelated to immigration status.
    3. Immigration Detainers Policy
    This policy explains the "Probable Cause" requirement needed before ICE can ask local jails to hold someone.
     * Official Page: ICE Policy on Immigration Detainers
     * Key Policy Point: ICE policy requires a finding of probable cause to believe a subject is a removable alien before a detainer can be issued. Since U.S. citizens are not removable, a detainer issued against one is a violation of this policy.
    4. Congressional Records and Summaries
    For a more detailed legal breakdown of how these policies are monitored by Congress, you can view the Congressional Research Service (CRS) reports:
     * CRS Report: Immigration Arrests in the Interior of the United States: A Primer
     * Congressional Hearing Record: Acting Secretary Testimony on U.S. Citizens Detained (Includes ICE's formal answers to Congress regarding the protocol for releasing citizens).
    Summary of Your Rights Based on These Policies:
     * No Obligation to Carry Papers: Under these policies, U.S. citizens are not required to carry proof of citizenship while traveling within the U.S. interior.
     * Right to Investigation: If you are stopped, Directive 16001.2 grants you the right to an "expeditious investigation" of your status if you claim citizenship.
     * Immediate Release: Once citizenship is verified, the agency is policy-bound to release the individual immediately.


    * The following opinion is mine and mine alone and does not represent the views of my family, friends, government and/or my past, present or future employer. US Department of State: 1-888-407-4747.

    Because they “can” and “do”. Just comply. Fuck the law, eh?

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