Law Enforcement. The Good , The Bad and The Abusive

DarthMaeglin

mickeyrat said:

DarthMaeglin said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

He was, but bail in this situation is pretty standard. It's easy to point fingers in hindsight, but you can't deny bail to every single person accused of assault. 

Court records show 26-year-old Tyrone Simard was charged with assault with a weapon and mischief for alleged offences that happened June 8.

The records show a Winnipeg court granted his release June 12 with various conditions, including a curfew and an order to not use drugs or alcohol or possess weapons.

That does raise another angle that needs to be addressed then: enforcement of those conditions. Have we gotten the toxicology tests back yet?

Assault with a weapon is much more serious than “simple” assault to most people.

In the end, though, the simple fact remains, he intentionally killed someone with a weapon while he was out on conditions that should have prevented the second incident. So another black mark on our bail system.

Getting back on topic, with Canadian bail as a backdrop, I completely understand the police if they feel a sense of futility as they perform their duties.

Just a general question that I'll ask you, but but what is  the purpose of bail to begin with?

I would assume the presumption of innocence applies in canada like it does here, no?

I guess it ultimately should serve several purposes, and you’re right about the presumption of innocence, but with bail I assume it’s being balanced against a presumption that the police have done their jobs properly and have charged (hopefully) the right person. I feel we should default to trusting the legal authorities, with a heavy dose of oversight.

Its primary purpose as I understand is to try to assure the accused shows up for their trial, essentially through the courts holding the accused’s collateral. I’m quite sure there have been cases of a genuinely innocent person fleeing charges or trials (as counterintuitive as that may be).

I think there’s also an element of the public seeing the wheels of justice turning as an assurance the system works. Often legislation gives the judge latitude to consider the severity of the charges when administering bail (or remanding the accused), and there have been accused here that were held in custody for trial (Bernardo and Picton come to mind but they’re the worst of our worst).

mickeyrat

DarthMaeglin said:

mickeyrat said:

DarthMaeglin said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

He was, but bail in this situation is pretty standard. It's easy to point fingers in hindsight, but you can't deny bail to every single person accused of assault. 

Court records show 26-year-old Tyrone Simard was charged with assault with a weapon and mischief for alleged offences that happened June 8.

The records show a Winnipeg court granted his release June 12 with various conditions, including a curfew and an order to not use drugs or alcohol or possess weapons.

That does raise another angle that needs to be addressed then: enforcement of those conditions. Have we gotten the toxicology tests back yet?

Assault with a weapon is much more serious than “simple” assault to most people.

In the end, though, the simple fact remains, he intentionally killed someone with a weapon while he was out on conditions that should have prevented the second incident. So another black mark on our bail system.

Getting back on topic, with Canadian bail as a backdrop, I completely understand the police if they feel a sense of futility as they perform their duties.

Just a general question that I'll ask you, but but what is  the purpose of bail to begin with?

I would assume the presumption of innocence applies in canada like it does here, no?

I guess it ultimately should serve several purposes, and you’re right about the presumption of innocence, but with bail I assume it’s being balanced against a presumption that the police have done their jobs properly and have charged (hopefully) the right person. I feel we should default to trusting the legal authorities, with a heavy dose of oversight.

Its primary purpose as I understand is to try to assure the accused shows up for their trial, essentially through the courts holding the accused’s collateral. I’m quite sure there have been cases of a genuinely innocent person fleeing charges or trials (as counterintuitive as that may be).

I think there’s also an element of the public seeing the wheels of justice turning as an assurance the system works. Often legislation gives the judge latitude to consider the severity of the charges when administering bail (or remanding the accused), and there have been accused here that were held in custody for trial (Bernardo and Picton come to mind but they’re the worst of our worst).

same here. 

Gern Blansten

I have to say that it's amazing how the magats get so worked up about this poor Ukrainian girl getting killed but they just shrug off the multiple deaths from mass shootings every time it happens

Talk about being manipulated by media...christ

One of my fb friends is going off on it by saying "why isn't main stream media covering this" when they fucking are covering it

DarthMaeglin

HughFreakingDillon said:

DarthMaeglin said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

He was, but bail in this situation is pretty standard. It's easy to point fingers in hindsight, but you can't deny bail to every single person accused of assault. 

Court records show 26-year-old Tyrone Simard was charged with assault with a weapon and mischief for alleged offences that happened June 8.

The records show a Winnipeg court granted his release June 12 with various conditions, including a curfew and an order to not use drugs or alcohol or possess weapons.

That does raise another angle that needs to be addressed then: enforcement of those conditions. Have we gotten the toxicology tests back yet?

Assault with a weapon is much more serious than “simple” assault to most people.

In the end, though, the simple fact remains, he intentionally killed someone with a weapon while he was out on conditions that should have prevented the second incident. So another black mark on our bail system.

Getting back on topic, with Canadian bail as a backdrop, I completely understand the police if they feel a sense of futility as they perform their duties.

the problem with enforcing those conditions is largely based on the offender abiding by them. Which I would guess most do. But the ones that don't, you only know that when they commit another crime. Time machines would be fabulous (or a Minority Report-which I'd say now is likely an unfortunately named movie lol). 

What you're asking for is a perfect system that will never exist, regardless of who is in power. 

While I’ll also be one of the first to state that it’s ultimately unattainable, I also believe that perfection is what needs to be pursued if we’re ever going to get close. So I’ll keep theorizing unashamedly, lol.

shecky

One can virtually feel the excruciating pain Iryna Zarutska is experiencing as she is being stabbed in

the neck and torso three times from behind, without provocation or warning.

Then you see her look of disbelief as to what has just happened to her.

Next, she is perhaps seeing her young life flash before her eyes, as that very life ebbs away. 

And not one person in that train car helped her, in any way.

One by one, they slink away, without the least bit of caring or empathy for their fellow human being.

There was no longer any danger to them - the killer had already left.

(By the way, the murderer immediately removed his red hoodie, so as to avoid detection.

He knew exactly what he'd just done, and did not want to be caught.)

What has happened to our society?

Gern Blansten

shecky said:

One can virtually feel the excruciating pain Iryna Zarutska is experiencing as she is being stabbed in

the neck and torso three times from behind, without provocation or warning.

Then you see her look of disbelief as to what has just happened to her.

Next, she is perhaps seeing her young life flash before her eyes, as that very life ebbs away. 

And not one person in that train car helped her, in any way.

One by one, they slink away, without the least bit of caring or empathy for their fellow human being.

There was no longer any danger to them - the killer had already left.

(By the way, the murderer immediately removed his red hoodie, so as to avoid detection.

He knew exactly what he'd just done, and did not want to be caught.)

What has happened to our society?

happened? This has been going on for years....where you been?

HughFreakingDillon

 shecky said:

One can virtually feel the excruciating pain Iryna Zarutska is experiencing as she is being stabbed in

the neck and torso three times from behind, without provocation or warning.

Then you see her look of disbelief as to what has just happened to her.

Next, she is perhaps seeing her young life flash before her eyes, as that very life ebbs away. 

And not one person in that train car helped her, in any way.

One by one, they slink away, without the least bit of caring or empathy for their fellow human being.

There was no longer any danger to them - the killer had already left.

(By the way, the murderer immediately removed his red hoodie, so as to avoid detection.

He knew exactly what he'd just done, and did not want to be caught.)

What has happened to our society?

they left the field of vision of the camera. you don't know what they did/didn't do. you are going off screen grabs that ended before we could even see any blood. I had to watch the video several times as it didn't even appear as she was injured. We're talking seconds here. Reports are they did help her when they realized what happened and how dire it was. 

What has happened to our society is people draw conclusions without facts. Just doing their damnedest to make sure the narrative they want is the narrative they get. Bravo. 

Gern Blansten

HughFreakingDillon said:

 shecky said:

One can virtually feel the excruciating pain Iryna Zarutska is experiencing as she is being stabbed in

the neck and torso three times from behind, without provocation or warning.

Then you see her look of disbelief as to what has just happened to her.

Next, she is perhaps seeing her young life flash before her eyes, as that very life ebbs away. 

And not one person in that train car helped her, in any way.

One by one, they slink away, without the least bit of caring or empathy for their fellow human being.

There was no longer any danger to them - the killer had already left.

(By the way, the murderer immediately removed his red hoodie, so as to avoid detection.

He knew exactly what he'd just done, and did not want to be caught.)

What has happened to our society?

they left the field of vision of the camera. you don't know what they did/didn't do. you are going off screen grabs that ended before we could even see any blood. I had to watch the video several times as it didn't even appear as she was injured. We're talking seconds here. Reports are they did help her when they realized what happened and how dire it was. 

What has happened to our society is people draw conclusions without facts. Just doing their damnedest to make sure the narrative they want is the narrative they get. Bravo. 

exactly...it's like every incident now is trump (or his minions) pointing the finger at dems. 

my FB friend that I previously mentioned as saying "why isn't the media talking about this" also brought up Soros in that rant....so fucking stupid it just doesn't translate

mace1229

HughFreakingDillon said:

 shecky said:

One can virtually feel the excruciating pain Iryna Zarutska is experiencing as she is being stabbed in

the neck and torso three times from behind, without provocation or warning.

Then you see her look of disbelief as to what has just happened to her.

Next, she is perhaps seeing her young life flash before her eyes, as that very life ebbs away. 

And not one person in that train car helped her, in any way.

One by one, they slink away, without the least bit of caring or empathy for their fellow human being.

There was no longer any danger to them - the killer had already left.

(By the way, the murderer immediately removed his red hoodie, so as to avoid detection.

He knew exactly what he'd just done, and did not want to be caught.)

What has happened to our society?

they left the field of vision of the camera. you don't know what they did/didn't do. you are going off screen grabs that ended before we could even see any blood. I had to watch the video several times as it didn't even appear as she was injured. We're talking seconds here. Reports are they did help her when they realized what happened and how dire it was. 

What has happened to our society is people draw conclusions without facts. Just doing their damnedest to make sure the narrative they want is the narrative they get. Bravo. 

I didn't see much of a video. But I noticed almost the same thing. I thought I was watching the before video of the attack one because I didn't see any blood and she seemed very calm for someone who was just stabbed in the neck. I can see it would be very possible the others didn't realize what had happened right away how how seriously she was injured. 

Ledbetterman10

She didn't look "calm." She looked stunned. Here's the actual stabbing video. They video distort the actual stabbing, but you'll see what exactly happened. Including the mutant getting out his knife before doing it. 

https://x.com/punishablepress/status/1965488053428101599

HughFreakingDillon

calm, stunned, whatever. It just didn't look like she was in mortal danger.