Law Enforcement. The Good , The Bad and The Abusive

HughFreakingDillon

that's his defense. That the staff used excessive force when attempting a citizen's arrest. And they did. I find it interesting that the cops failed to charge the staff. I'm sure their official position is "leave it to us" but behind closed doors they probably want to give them medals. 

mace1229

HughFreakingDillon said:

so let's flip this: in Winnipeg, a man stole a coat from a store with a wallet and fob in it. He returned a half hour later to steal the car. Staff from the store were (it seems) laying in wait, and severely assaulted him. He is now suing the store and the staff for injuries and because now he's always sad. 

I'm admittedly on the fence about this. I'm against corporal punishment, but I'm also pro FAFO. 

Man sues Winnipeg grocer alleging 'egregious assault' by staff as he tried to steal car outside store

***If it were to me, I wouldn't award him anything. His injuries were the direct result of his own actions. And still charge him with attempted auto theft.***

That was my initial reaction before reading the story. They fractured his skull and used a hammer, that is way excessive, especially the hammer. I believe you should be allowed to use reasonable force to prevent someone from stealing your car, but not potentially lethal force. If I see someone trying to steal my car I should be allowed to tackle him if that is what is needed to prevent him from doing it or to perform a citizen's arrest (which the article also states). But not beat him with a hammer.

DE4173

A lot of variables and hypotheticals could come into play here. Imagine if the guy had a gun or other weapon and any member of the staff was injured or killed. Take my/my coworkers/whoever's car. I'm not going to die (or asking them to) over a car.

HughFreakingDillon

mace1229 said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

so let's flip this: in Winnipeg, a man stole a coat from a store with a wallet and fob in it. He returned a half hour later to steal the car. Staff from the store were (it seems) laying in wait, and severely assaulted him. He is now suing the store and the staff for injuries and because now he's always sad. 

I'm admittedly on the fence about this. I'm against corporal punishment, but I'm also pro FAFO. 

Man sues Winnipeg grocer alleging 'egregious assault' by staff as he tried to steal car outside store

***If it were to me, I wouldn't award him anything. His injuries were the direct result of his own actions. And still charge him with attempted auto theft.***

That was my initial reaction before reading the story. They fractured his skull and used a hammer, that is way excessive, especially the hammer. I believe you should be allowed to use reasonable force to prevent someone from stealing your car, but not potentially lethal force. If I see someone trying to steal my car I should be allowed to tackle him if that is what is needed to prevent him from doing it or to perform a citizen's arrest (which the article also states). But not beat him with a hammer.

Yeah, the hammer was mentioned, but didn’t say how/if it was used. 

DE4173

Another is the whole at work angle. From a corporate standpoint, I'm not sure they're loving their work force engaging like that and what the company would be liable for if something tragic would occur to a staff member if things went wrong.

shecky

You want to do their job? Someone has to.

shecky

Can you imagine having to deal with this shit as your job? Not an effing chance!
Next time you see a cop, thank them.

Gern Blansten

shecky said:

Can you imagine having to deal with this shit as your job? Not an effing chance!
Next time you see a cop, thank them.

Thank them for doing a job that they signed up for? Sure....

mickeyrat

More than 1,000 people currently imprisoned in Louisiana were convicted by split juries — ruled unconstitutional in 2020. Yet the state Supreme Court has declined to grant new trials, and lawmakers have repeatedly denied a reexamination of their cases.

Read the full story (with Verite News): https://propub.li/45HeNYB

nicknyr15

Gern Blansten said:

shecky said:

Can you imagine having to deal with this shit as your job? Not an effing chance!
Next time you see a cop, thank them.

Thank them for doing a job that they signed up for? Sure....

Thank them for signing up to do the job. I mean you don’t have to but let’s be honest…. Are you signing up? Me? No. Thankfully, they do. 

Gern Blansten

nicknyr15 said:

Gern Blansten said:

shecky said:

Can you imagine having to deal with this shit as your job? Not an effing chance!
Next time you see a cop, thank them.

Thank them for doing a job that they signed up for? Sure....

Thank them for signing up to do the job. I mean you don’t have to but let’s be honest…. Are you signing up? Me? No. Thankfully, they do. 

Yeah I'm all for paying them more....no doubt about it. 

My point is that yes, they should imagine having to deal with that shit. They signed up for it.

HughFreakingDillon

nicknyr15 said:

Gern Blansten said:

shecky said:

Can you imagine having to deal with this shit as your job? Not an effing chance!
Next time you see a cop, thank them.

Thank them for doing a job that they signed up for? Sure....

Thank them for signing up to do the job. I mean you don’t have to but let’s be honest…. Are you signing up? Me? No. Thankfully, they do. 

No

PJ_Soul

mace1229 said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

so let's flip this: in Winnipeg, a man stole a coat from a store with a wallet and fob in it. He returned a half hour later to steal the car. Staff from the store were (it seems) laying in wait, and severely assaulted him. He is now suing the store and the staff for injuries and because now he's always sad. 

I'm admittedly on the fence about this. I'm against corporal punishment, but I'm also pro FAFO. 

Man sues Winnipeg grocer alleging 'egregious assault' by staff as he tried to steal car outside store

***If it were to me, I wouldn't award him anything. His injuries were the direct result of his own actions. And still charge him with attempted auto theft.***

That was my initial reaction before reading the story. They fractured his skull and used a hammer, that is way excessive, especially the hammer. I believe you should be allowed to use reasonable force to prevent someone from stealing your car, but not potentially lethal force. If I see someone trying to steal my car I should be allowed to tackle him if that is what is needed to prevent him from doing it or to perform a citizen's arrest (which the article also states). But not beat him with a hammer.

Agreed. There is no need to cause grave harm like that. I'd be glad if they'd tackled him to the ground, pinned him down, and whatever incidental injuries that came from that, fine. But bashing his head in with a hammer???!? That is insane. It's better to let the thief go than do that to him. Theft doesn't warrant attempted murder. Same for when people think it's okay to shoot someone rather than let them get away with, like, a stolen item from a store or whatever. Shoplifting/theft/burglary doesn't call for a death sentence obviously. Now if someone is inside your home committing a crime, that's another story. In that case, I approve of shooting them or bashing their head with a baseball bat. 

PJ_Soul

nicknyr15 said:

Gern Blansten said:

shecky said:

Can you imagine having to deal with this shit as your job? Not an effing chance!
Next time you see a cop, thank them.

Thank them for doing a job that they signed up for? Sure....

Thank them for signing up to do the job. I mean you don’t have to but let’s be honest…. Are you signing up? Me? No. Thankfully, they do. 

Yeah, good cops who do their jobs well (or at least don't do them badly) definitely deserve respect and appreciation. But those who do the job poorly, don't respect the rights of citizens, and hurt people when it's not justified deserve very, very severe consequences. Simply firing cops who are like that isn't anywhere near enough. They need to be handled as criminals, not just bad employees. 

DarthMaeglin

Just another normal day on the streets of Canada.

Maybe someday our courts will once again consider the victims.

https://torontosun.com/news/local-news/hunter-victims-family-outraged-alleged-12-year-old-hitman-got-bail-again?itm_source=index

HughFreakingDillon

https://johnhoward.ca/blog/problem-with-bail-not-what-we-are-being-told/

I do agree, however, that giving bail to a contract attempted murderer is atrocious. I don't care what age. 

DarthMaeglin

HughFreakingDillon said:

https://johnhoward.ca/blog/problem-with-bail-not-what-we-are-being-told/

I do agree, however, that giving bail to a contract attempted murderer is atrocious. I don't care what age. 

Part of the problem here (Ontario) is that the jails are already full, leading to more bail being granted. What’s completely baffling is judges or justices who release repeat offenders.

This would seem a reasonable bail model (for most charges?): first offence you get reasonable bail, if you reoffend, harsh bail. Third arrest is automatic remand. I’d even be comfortable with a condition of the first level being automatic detention on a second arrest.

It was the guy in your profile pic at the moment (Justin Trudeau) that early in his first term passed legislation requiring racialized or minority accused to be granted bail “under the least onerous conditions”, which surely hasn’t helped. The kid in the column is only an outlier because he’s 12, usually they tend to be 14-16 here in Toronto, but these stories are sadly far too common, both bail and youth crime (from both sides of the lens).