Law Enforcement. The Good , The Bad and The Abusive

cincybearcat

shecky said:

https://www.foxnews.com/us/cincinnati-mayor-under-fire-police-management-after-viral-beating-exposes-lax-bail-laws

"So many officers have come to me, and they've said they don't even see a point in making arrests because the criminals are just going to be back on the streets the very next day," Bowman said. "We have to put pressure on all the judges and prosecutors, and we have to be able to let the officers know, ‘Do your job, see your training and do your job properly, and you're going to have all of City Hall to back you up in that circumstance." 

So this was an awful attack.  Supposedly the white male started it (I did see on video him slapping someone...unsure if he said anything).  It certainly felt like the person he hit had the right to fight back.  But damn, the mob mentality fighting style kicked in and a group of morons went to town on the idiot.   The criminal that knocked out the woman (a cheap shot too....hitting a woman with a cheap shot???) also was seen to be stomping/hitting the man after he was down on the ground.  I personally would be fine with some backyard justice for that guy.  He deserves a beating.

Certainly with the crowds down there for baseball and a music festival there should have been a lot larger police presence.  It was just extremely dumb management by someone.

shecky

The citizenry, as well as the police, are under assault by liberal judges.

shecky

"...claimed his missing wife was snatched by ICE."

mickeyrat

bail is not for punishment. its to ensure court appearance. 

mace1229

mickeyrat said:

bail is not for punishment. its to ensure court appearance. 

That’s only part of it. They factor in public safety, flight risk and strength of the case. As a result repeat offenders, violent crimes and cases with strong evidence (video evidence, etc) deserve much higher bonds.
The dude that knocked that girl out in Cincy deserves no bond in my opinion. Violent towards a woman, knocks her out and lands her in the hospital, caught on camera, deserves to sit there until the trial or pleads guilty and gets sentenced.

DarthMaeglin

mace1229 said:

mickeyrat said:

bail is not for punishment. its to ensure court appearance. 

That’s only part of it. They factor in public safety, flight risk and strength of the case. As a result repeat offenders, violent crimes and cases with strong evidence (video evidence, etc) deserve much higher bonds.
The dude that knocked that girl out in Cincy deserves no bond in my opinion. Violent towards a woman, knocks her out and lands her in the hospital, caught on camera, deserves to sit there until the trial or pleads guilty and gets sentenced.

In Canada our previous government passed legislation directing judges to issue the least onerous bail conditions for “racialized” accused. It’s resulted in people being rearrested while awaiting their trial for (sometimes) several different cases.

Our judges do tend to show more deference to an accused or convicted person’s rights than the rights of the victims.

It is a very fine line when someone stands accused but isn’t convicted and I do think we should generally defer to the presumption of innocence. Once convicted, then outside of protection from “cruel and unusual punishment”, an individual should have almost no rights, simply because it’s been determined (by a jury of their peers or a judge) that they broke the social contract we all enter into.

HughFreakingDillon

what does "almost no rights" mean exactly?

DarthMaeglin

HughFreakingDillon said:

what does "almost no rights" mean exactly?

Certainty we shouldn’t hear any more stories about people like Paul Bernardo living a relatively cushy life with access to things like a hockey rink.
Aside from rehabilitation programs, prison should be a punishment.

HughFreakingDillon

DarthMaeglin said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

what does "almost no rights" mean exactly?

Certainty we shouldn’t hear any more stories about people like Paul Bernardo living a relatively cushy life with access to things like a hockey rink.
Aside from rehabilitation programs, prison should be a punishment.

prison ain't cushy. no matter how it's perceived by the general public or what amenities they have access to. Recreational activities for inmates provides a safer environment for other inmates and those who work there. It's not meant to make their lives most "cushy". 

Tim Simmons

The lack of freedom is the punishment. It’s super weird when people want carceral environment to go beyond that. People say I just want the punishment to fit the crime, but what they really want is fitting revenge. And I don’t see how that’s any better than the original crime because it’s certainly not moral superiority. 

DarthMaeglin

HughFreakingDillon said:

DarthMaeglin said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

what does "almost no rights" mean exactly?

Certainty we shouldn’t hear any more stories about people like Paul Bernardo living a relatively cushy life with access to things like a hockey rink.
Aside from rehabilitation programs, prison should be a punishment.

prison ain't cushy. no matter how it's perceived by the general public or what amenities they have access to. Recreational activities for inmates provides a safer environment for other inmates and those who work there. It's not meant to make their lives most "cushy". 

When prisoners have access to better facilities than the financially disadvantaged law-abiding citizens, I see an issue.

There a big difference in my own view between rehabilitation and recreation.

Tim Simmons

But why is the problem the prisons and not not taking care of the financially disadvantaged? 

Tim Simmons

Prison. The famous recreation destination. 

DarthMaeglin

Tim Simmons said:

But why is the problem the prisons and not not taking care of the financially disadvantaged? 

I happen to agree. I strongly suspect that addressing the economic disparities in society would lead to a reduction in crime overall. There will always be crime because there will always be assholes, unfortunately.

DarthMaeglin

Tim Simmons said:

Prison. The famous recreation destination. 

Have there been stories in the US about prisoners having more comfortable incarcerations like we see every few years in Canada?

Tim Simmons

Possibly. I do know a lot of people feel like prison should be more like gulag. 

HughFreakingDillon

DarthMaeglin said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

DarthMaeglin said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

what does "almost no rights" mean exactly?

Certainty we shouldn’t hear any more stories about people like Paul Bernardo living a relatively cushy life with access to things like a hockey rink.
Aside from rehabilitation programs, prison should be a punishment.

prison ain't cushy. no matter how it's perceived by the general public or what amenities they have access to. Recreational activities for inmates provides a safer environment for other inmates and those who work there. It's not meant to make their lives most "cushy". 

When prisoners have access to better facilities than the financially disadvantaged law-abiding citizens, I see an issue.

There a big difference in my own view between rehabilitation and recreation.

those are separate problems. 

DarthMaeglin

HughFreakingDillon said:

DarthMaeglin said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

DarthMaeglin said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

what does "almost no rights" mean exactly?

Certainty we shouldn’t hear any more stories about people like Paul Bernardo living a relatively cushy life with access to things like a hockey rink.
Aside from rehabilitation programs, prison should be a punishment.

prison ain't cushy. no matter how it's perceived by the general public or what amenities they have access to. Recreational activities for inmates provides a safer environment for other inmates and those who work there. It's not meant to make their lives most "cushy". 

When prisoners have access to better facilities than the financially disadvantaged law-abiding citizens, I see an issue.

There a big difference in my own view between rehabilitation and recreation.

those are separate problems. 

That’s fair, and for me the bigger problem currently is the bail system and legislation. Judges are supposed to be able to exercise their own…judgment so unfortunately they’re part of this issue as well for me.

HughFreakingDillon

so let's flip this: in Winnipeg, a man stole a coat from a store with a wallet and fob in it. He returned a half hour later to steal the car. Staff from the store were (it seems) laying in wait, and severely assaulted him. He is now suing the store and the staff for injuries and because now he's always sad. 

I'm admittedly on the fence about this. I'm against corporal punishment, but I'm also pro FAFO. 

Man sues Winnipeg grocer alleging 'egregious assault' by staff as he tried to steal car outside store

DE4173

I'm no legal scholar, but he stole a jacket and attempted to steal the car, so I don't know what penalty he should receive.  I don't think it's 
the responsibility of the store staff to beat him like that. I'd probably call the authorities to wait for him to return.