In order for the Ten Club orders to be reported, they would need to be set up with the equipment that allows for transmission of point-of-sale data to Luminate. That equipment costs money, and it's hard to imagine Pearl Jam investing in it when they only have meaningful direct-to-consumer record sales once every few years. It wouldn't surprise me if over ninety percent of the CDs and LPs shipped by the Ten Club are pre-orders of new albums (although I don't really know), which would mean that there's very little to be reported in the years between album releases. It is possible that Luminate has some sort of workaround that doesn't involve point-of-sale transmission and that allows them to capture direct-to-consumer sales by artists with confidence that the numbers are not being exaggerated or manipulated, but I have never heard of any such arrangement and don't know how it would work.
Having said that, it seems fairly obvious that Taylor Swift sells a huge number of albums direct-to-consumer and that those are being counted. (If they aren't, then her already-staggering sales numbers would be truly mind-boggling.) But she and her record company have an incentive to report those numbers because her sales actually serve as marketing. When you break records, you will get all kinds of free media reporting it, and that will drive even more sales. So I could easily see Taylor Swift's management or her record company paying for the Luminate equipment to ensure that these sales are fully reported. Pearl Jam's not setting records anymore, and they don't really seem to care about their sales numbers, so it's harder to imagine them shelling out (or their distributor shelling out on their behalf) to get set up to be able to report sales to Luminate.
I have tried to find out more about this without really getting anywhere. If someone in Ten Club operations would like to enlighten us, we're listening.
Yeah, it would be totally counter-intuitive for Ten Club orders to be excluded from sales totals. It certainly seems proper to assume they are included unless demonstrated otherwise.
At least Pearl Jam is making money off all the albums regardless. They must make a substantial percentage from each album these days compared to other artists, especially since they began using Monkeywrench Records in 2009.
Yesterday I went looking in the town where I live for another physical copy of Dark Matter, but after visiting FYE, Target, and Walmart, there were none immediately available. I suspect I'd have to drive 35 miles (each way) to the nearest Barnes and Noble to acquire another one without waiting. Consequently, I simply ordered another copy through Amazon.
Yeah, it would be totally counter-intuitive for Ten Club orders to be excluded from sales totals. It certainly seems proper to assume they are included unless demonstrated otherwise.
It may be counterintuitive in a vacuum but, when you know what Luminate's tracking entails, you realize that it's hard to know what to assume.
Based on the information included on this web site (recent article), it seems as though Ten Club album sales would almost assuredly be included in Luminate totals.
1) I don't know anyone who works for the Ten Club, and I don't think this is a question they would address in response to a random inquiry. No one from the Ten Club has volunteered any information about it here even though this topic has come up many times over the years.
2) I'm not sure how the information in the article you linked supports the idea that the Ten Club is set up to report sales to Luminate. If you look at the section on D2C, the Ten Club does not use a fulfillment company such as the ones listed there (at least I'm not aware of it if they do). Again, there is a difference between the distributor (UMG/Republic) and the Ten Club. The distributor is dealing with retail; the Ten Club is dealing directly with consumers.
As a general point, when I talk about this subject, I'm speaking from a certain knowledge base and experience. I also try to be clear when there are things that I do not know. So, again, based on my experience and understanding, I don't think it's safe to assume that direct-to-consumer sales via the Ten Club are reported to Luminate, but I don't know for sure. We do know that many independent record stores do not report to Luminate, so direct-to-consumer sales via the Ten Club wouldn't be the only sales that go uncounted.
#2 /#23 in Australia #2 in Austria #2 / #9 in Germany #2 / #24 in Netherlands #2 / #49 in Ireland #2 in Portugal #2 in Scotland #2 in UK (9,835 sales) #2 in Swiss #2 in Belgium #3 in Spain #3 / #29 in Italy #3 / #18 in New Zealand #5 in US (59' sales) #13 in France #13 Finland #17 Denmark #21 Sweden
BF25394: I've had a couple conversations with Ten Club employees about orders that I placed in the past. Sometimes such conversations can branch out and people will mention things when a diplomatic approach is taken. Who knows what they might say? At least we know the band is profiting from every album sold -- even the ones that might go unaccounted for based on how they are or aren't scanned. Perhaps that's one way the RIAA sales totals are useful, because I believe those totals represent the number of albums shipped to merchants. Anyway, I'm proud to be a fan of this band! 🥑
BF25394: I've had a couple conversations with Ten Club employees about orders that I placed in the past. Sometimes such conversations can branch out and people will mention things when a diplomatic approach is taken. Who knows what they might say? At least we know the band is profiting from every album sold -- even the ones that might go unaccounted for based on how they are or aren't scanned. Perhaps that's one way the RIAA sales totals are useful, because I believe those totals represent the number of albums shipped to merchants. Anyway, I'm proud to be a fan of this band! 🥑
There are at least two major problems with the RIAA totals. First, they don't tell us anything about how many copies were bought by consumers. If a distributor ships a million records to retailers and only 250,000 of them are bought by consumers, that record is eligible for platinum certification. It's very misleading. Second, certification costs money and has to be requested. Some record companies and artists are more invested in this than others. Also, at this point, now that they factor streaming into the RIAA certifications, they're almost completely useless because they're mixing apples with oranges.
According to the RIAA, Eagles' Their Greatest Hits 1971-75 has outsold Thriller. I assure you that it has not.
Yes, I understand what you're saying. I'm not looking to argue. I guess what I'm trying to say is each measurement provides a somewhat different angle/insight into what's happening. This topic seems really important to you. If I'm able to learn anything more about whether Ten Club sales count in the Luminate totals, I'll be sure to mention it.
#2 /#23 in Australia #2 in Austria #2 / #9 in Swiss #2 / #9 in Germany #2 / #24 in Netherlands #2 / #49 in Ireland #2 in Portugal #2 in Scotland #2 in UK (9,835 sales) #2 in Swiss #2 in Belgium #3 in Spain #3 / #29 in Italy #3 / #18 in New Zealand #5 in US (59' sales) #13 in France #13 Finland #17 Denmark #21 Sweden
Dark Matter dropped to 171 after 2 weeks on the charts. I realize people stream and download music now but for Christ sake. I wish folks who are going to these shows would buy the album/cd. The American tour is pretty much sold out. Buy new albums by your fav artists. This is why a lot of bands don't make new music.
Dark Matter dropped to 171 after 2 weeks on the charts. I realize people stream and download music now but for Christ sake. I wish folks who are going to these shows would buy the album/cd. The American tour is pretty much sold out. Buy new albums by your fav artists. This is why a lot of bands don't make new music.
Dark Matter dropped to 171 after 2 weeks on the charts. I realize people stream and download music now but for Christ sake. I wish folks who are going to these shows would buy the album/cd. The American tour is pretty much sold out. Buy new albums by your fav artists. This is why a lot of bands don't make new music.
It actually dropped that far because people *don't* stream Pearl Jam all that much. (And downloads are actually minimal to the point where they have very little impact on the chart.) The issue is that the vast majority of people who want to buy the album either pre-ordered it or bought it in the first week of release. Since there are very few streams of new rock music generally, and Pearl Jam specifically, it doesn't get the chart boost they would provide. Meanwhile, they have no way of measuring th second-week consumption of physical albums bought in the first week. The chart formula is really problematic. You can't really put much stock in it.
In terms of actual sales, the album only dropped from No. 2 to No. 19.
I'd like to set up my personal desktop computer so that it's constantly streaming PJ all day, every day if I'm not actively using it for something else. Perhaps a lot of people doing that would make a difference.
I know Present Tense being used as the main/closing song on the Chicago Bulls' documentary provided a massive increase in streams pertaining to No Code. However, I don't know how many album sales resulted from all those streams -- it had to be a ton.
By the way, there's a really cool-looking vinyl version of the Dark Matter album (record store day exclusive?) available through the Walmart web site. It isn't cheap, but it looks really badass! 🥑
I'd like to set up my personal desktop computer so that it's constantly streaming PJ all day, every day if I'm not actively using it for something else. Perhaps a lot of people doing that would make a difference.
That what I do. I've been trying to get the 100k plus members on the fb groups to do the same. But to no avail
I know Present Tense being used as the main/closing song on the Chicago Bulls' documentary provided a massive increase in streams pertaining to No Code. However, I don't know how many album sales resulted from all those streams -- it had to be a ton.
All or None did well after The Last of Us. It probably would have done even better if people knew the song or if they played more of it.
I'd like to set up my personal desktop computer so that it's constantly streaming PJ all day, every day if I'm not actively using it for something else. Perhaps a lot of people doing that would make a difference.
One person streaming one four-minute song around the clock for a week would not even translate to one streaming-equivalent album. If you streamed "Running" non-stop around the clock for a week, you would generate about one unit.
BF25394: Well, it would be cheaper for me to provide one "sale" in that manner (constant streaming) rather than purchasing a new physical album each week. Igotid88 is correct -- if tens of thousands of fan club members did that for a while, then it'd make a really big difference.
Comments
Having said that, it seems fairly obvious that Taylor Swift sells a huge number of albums direct-to-consumer and that those are being counted. (If they aren't, then her already-staggering sales numbers would be truly mind-boggling.) But she and her record company have an incentive to report those numbers because her sales actually serve as marketing. When you break records, you will get all kinds of free media reporting it, and that will drive even more sales. So I could easily see Taylor Swift's management or her record company paying for the Luminate equipment to ensure that these sales are fully reported. Pearl Jam's not setting records anymore, and they don't really seem to care about their sales numbers, so it's harder to imagine them shelling out (or their distributor shelling out on their behalf) to get set up to be able to report sales to Luminate.
I have tried to find out more about this without really getting anywhere. If someone in Ten Club operations would like to enlighten us, we're listening.
heatonthestreet.com/what-is-sounscan/
1) I don't know anyone who works for the Ten Club, and I don't think this is a question they would address in response to a random inquiry. No one from the Ten Club has volunteered any information about it here even though this topic has come up many times over the years.
2) I'm not sure how the information in the article you linked supports the idea that the Ten Club is set up to report sales to Luminate. If you look at the section on D2C, the Ten Club does not use a fulfillment company such as the ones listed there (at least I'm not aware of it if they do). Again, there is a difference between the distributor (UMG/Republic) and the Ten Club. The distributor is dealing with retail; the Ten Club is dealing directly with consumers.
As a general point, when I talk about this subject, I'm speaking from a certain knowledge base and experience. I also try to be clear when there are things that I do not know. So, again, based on my experience and understanding, I don't think it's safe to assume that direct-to-consumer sales via the Ten Club are reported to Luminate, but I don't know for sure. We do know that many independent record stores do not report to Luminate, so direct-to-consumer sales via the Ten Club wouldn't be the only sales that go uncounted.
#2 /#23 in Australia
#2 in Austria
#2 / #9 in Germany
#2 / #24 in Netherlands
#2 / #49 in Ireland
#2 in Portugal
#2 in Scotland
#2 in UK (9,835 sales)
#2 in Swiss
#2 in Belgium
#3 in Spain
#3 / #29 in Italy
#3 / #18 in New Zealand
#5 in US (59' sales)
#13 in France
#13 Finland
#17 Denmark
#21 Sweden
According to the RIAA, Eagles' Their Greatest Hits 1971-75 has outsold Thriller. I assure you that it has not.
#2 /#23 in Australia
#2 in Austria
#2 / #9 in Swiss
#2 / #9 in Germany
#2 / #24 in Netherlands
#2 / #49 in Ireland
#2 in Portugal
#2 in Scotland
#2 in UK (9,835 sales)
#2 in Swiss
#2 in Belgium
#3 in Spain
#3 / #29 in Italy
#3 / #18 in New Zealand
#5 in US (59' sales)
#13 in France
#13 Finland
#17 Denmark
#21 Sweden
In terms of actual sales, the album only dropped from No. 2 to No. 19.