The Curious Case Of The Pearl Jam Posters

Jimmydean55

FWIW, this is taken directly from a guy who has done a few posters for Metallica. 

Hmm. I don’t wanna get too into how the sausage gets made but yeah, this is pretty much the standard payment to create posters for bands. I’m always a little torn about whether it’s a fair method. It’s certainly a LOT of work outside of actually creating the posters themselves. Ordering tubes and shipping supplies, gathering addresses, mailing orders, etc. A lot of stress and effort. In the end, I just wanna draw things. 
In saying that, it more than evens out financially if you’re willing to put the effort in. It doesn’t mean I’ll be buying that private island anytime soon but it does end up paying out more than what this artist probably would have made via the flat fee she wanted. No doubt the writer of the article would have been snarkily outraged by that too.
Also worth mentioning that for bands like PJ and Metallica, the fanbases are so passionate that these posters usually sell out pretty quickly and easily. Things get infinitely trickier when it’s a smaller band.
Ultimately, it’s very difficult to make a living as an artist on your own terms. That’s the sad truth of it. It’s a lot of hard work outside of just creating and drawing so yeah, you have to set your boundaries as to what you’ll accept and what you won’t. (Personally, I’d drive over kittens to do a PJ poster!)

Merkin Baller

JimmyV said:

Here you can see exact moment Gilbert Stuart quit the project after learning George Washington planned to pay him in prints and not cash money.  

"Compensating me for my work with anything other than wooden nickels seems upside down."

pjl44

Jimmydean55 said:

FWIW, this is taken directly from a guy who has done a few posters for Metallica. 

Hmm. I don’t wanna get too into how the sausage gets made but yeah, this is pretty much the standard payment to create posters for bands. I’m always a little torn about whether it’s a fair method. It’s certainly a LOT of work outside of actually creating the posters themselves. Ordering tubes and shipping supplies, gathering addresses, mailing orders, etc. A lot of stress and effort. In the end, I just wanna draw things. 
In saying that, it more than evens out financially if you’re willing to put the effort in. It doesn’t mean I’ll be buying that private island anytime soon but it does end up paying out more than what this artist probably would have made via the flat fee she wanted. No doubt the writer of the article would have been snarkily outraged by that too.
Also worth mentioning that for bands like PJ and Metallica, the fanbases are so passionate that these posters usually sell out pretty quickly and easily. Things get infinitely trickier when it’s a smaller band.
Ultimately, it’s very difficult to make a living as an artist on your own terms. That’s the sad truth of it. It’s a lot of hard work outside of just creating and drawing so yeah, you have to set your boundaries as to what you’ll accept and what you won’t. (Personally, I’d drive over kittens to do a PJ poster!)

Thanks for posting. Kinda what I suspected.

Vitalogensia

JimmyV said:

Here you can see exact moment Gilbert Stuart quit the project after learning George Washington planned to pay him in prints and not cash money.  

I thought Hans Sprungfeld had something to do with it, too. 

Weston1283

Jimmydean55 said:

FWIW, this is taken directly from a guy who has done a few posters for Metallica. 

Hmm. I don’t wanna get too into how the sausage gets made but yeah, this is pretty much the standard payment to create posters for bands. I’m always a little torn about whether it’s a fair method. It’s certainly a LOT of work outside of actually creating the posters themselves. Ordering tubes and shipping supplies, gathering addresses, mailing orders, etc. A lot of stress and effort. In the end, I just wanna draw things. 
In saying that, it more than evens out financially if you’re willing to put the effort in. It doesn’t mean I’ll be buying that private island anytime soon but it does end up paying out more than what this artist probably would have made via the flat fee she wanted. No doubt the writer of the article would have been snarkily outraged by that too.
Also worth mentioning that for bands like PJ and Metallica, the fanbases are so passionate that these posters usually sell out pretty quickly and easily. Things get infinitely trickier when it’s a smaller band.
Ultimately, it’s very difficult to make a living as an artist on your own terms. That’s the sad truth of it. It’s a lot of hard work outside of just creating and drawing so yeah, you have to set your boundaries as to what you’ll accept and what you won’t. (Personally, I’d drive over kittens to do a PJ poster!)

So... if you work harder and put more time in, you can achieve a much higher payday.  That seems pretty consistent with, like, working and having a job..... Especially if you are self-employed

Merkin Baller

Jimmydean55 said:

No doubt the writer of the article would have been snarkily outraged by that too.

This is a great point, and highlights an understated angle to this nonsense: the indignation of the person writing the newsletter, which I have zero doubt only hurt Johnson's position in all of this. 

Weston1283 said:

Jimmydean55 said:

FWIW, this is taken directly from a guy who has done a few posters for Metallica. 

Hmm. I don’t wanna get too into how the sausage gets made but yeah, this is pretty much the standard payment to create posters for bands. I’m always a little torn about whether it’s a fair method. It’s certainly a LOT of work outside of actually creating the posters themselves. Ordering tubes and shipping supplies, gathering addresses, mailing orders, etc. A lot of stress and effort. In the end, I just wanna draw things. 
In saying that, it more than evens out financially if you’re willing to put the effort in. It doesn’t mean I’ll be buying that private island anytime soon but it does end up paying out more than what this artist probably would have made via the flat fee she wanted. No doubt the writer of the article would have been snarkily outraged by that too.
Also worth mentioning that for bands like PJ and Metallica, the fanbases are so passionate that these posters usually sell out pretty quickly and easily. Things get infinitely trickier when it’s a smaller band.
Ultimately, it’s very difficult to make a living as an artist on your own terms. That’s the sad truth of it. It’s a lot of hard work outside of just creating and drawing so yeah, you have to set your boundaries as to what you’ll accept and what you won’t. (Personally, I’d drive over kittens to do a PJ poster!)

So... if you work harder and put more time in, you can achieve a much higher payday.  That seems pretty consistent with, like, working and having a job..... Especially if you are self-employed

Funny how that works, isn't it? 

SHZA

Weston1283 said:

Jimmydean55 said:

FWIW, this is taken directly from a guy who has done a few posters for Metallica. 

Hmm. I don’t wanna get too into how the sausage gets made but yeah, this is pretty much the standard payment to create posters for bands. I’m always a little torn about whether it’s a fair method. It’s certainly a LOT of work outside of actually creating the posters themselves. Ordering tubes and shipping supplies, gathering addresses, mailing orders, etc. A lot of stress and effort. In the end, I just wanna draw things. 
In saying that, it more than evens out financially if you’re willing to put the effort in. It doesn’t mean I’ll be buying that private island anytime soon but it does end up paying out more than what this artist probably would have made via the flat fee she wanted. No doubt the writer of the article would have been snarkily outraged by that too.
Also worth mentioning that for bands like PJ and Metallica, the fanbases are so passionate that these posters usually sell out pretty quickly and easily. Things get infinitely trickier when it’s a smaller band.
Ultimately, it’s very difficult to make a living as an artist on your own terms. That’s the sad truth of it. It’s a lot of hard work outside of just creating and drawing so yeah, you have to set your boundaries as to what you’ll accept and what you won’t. (Personally, I’d drive over kittens to do a PJ poster!)

So... if you work harder and put more time in, you can achieve a much higher payday.  That seems pretty consistent with, like, working and having a job..... Especially if you are self-employed

That wasn't really his point. With this model, the artist has to do a lot of administrative work to sell the APs or they wouldn't get paid at all. The time he spends buying tubes, packing up posters, making mailing labels, etc, is time that he's not drawing. So in a sense, having to work harder on that stuff causes him to lose money by preventing or delaying work on other projects. But he could probably outsource those tasks 

bootlegger10

SHZA said:

Weston1283 said:

Jimmydean55 said:

FWIW, this is taken directly from a guy who has done a few posters for Metallica. 

Hmm. I don’t wanna get too into how the sausage gets made but yeah, this is pretty much the standard payment to create posters for bands. I’m always a little torn about whether it’s a fair method. It’s certainly a LOT of work outside of actually creating the posters themselves. Ordering tubes and shipping supplies, gathering addresses, mailing orders, etc. A lot of stress and effort. In the end, I just wanna draw things. 
In saying that, it more than evens out financially if you’re willing to put the effort in. It doesn’t mean I’ll be buying that private island anytime soon but it does end up paying out more than what this artist probably would have made via the flat fee she wanted. No doubt the writer of the article would have been snarkily outraged by that too.
Also worth mentioning that for bands like PJ and Metallica, the fanbases are so passionate that these posters usually sell out pretty quickly and easily. Things get infinitely trickier when it’s a smaller band.
Ultimately, it’s very difficult to make a living as an artist on your own terms. That’s the sad truth of it. It’s a lot of hard work outside of just creating and drawing so yeah, you have to set your boundaries as to what you’ll accept and what you won’t. (Personally, I’d drive over kittens to do a PJ poster!)

So... if you work harder and put more time in, you can achieve a much higher payday.  That seems pretty consistent with, like, working and having a job..... Especially if you are self-employed

That wasn't really his point. With this model, the artist has to do a lot of administrative work to sell the APs or they wouldn't get paid at all. The time he spends buying tubes, packing up posters, making mailing labels, etc, is time that he's not drawing. So in a sense, having to work harder on that stuff causes him to lose money by preventing or delaying work on other projects. But he could probably outsource those tasks 

I assume people that buy the original art don’t pick up in person. A cost for sure with time and effort, but I am sure these artists would love to do a 100 print run and ship out to make $10k.  This is no different, other than they can use the PJ name and show date.

Weston1283

SHZA said:

Weston1283 said:

Jimmydean55 said:

FWIW, this is taken directly from a guy who has done a few posters for Metallica. 

Hmm. I don’t wanna get too into how the sausage gets made but yeah, this is pretty much the standard payment to create posters for bands. I’m always a little torn about whether it’s a fair method. It’s certainly a LOT of work outside of actually creating the posters themselves. Ordering tubes and shipping supplies, gathering addresses, mailing orders, etc. A lot of stress and effort. In the end, I just wanna draw things. 
In saying that, it more than evens out financially if you’re willing to put the effort in. It doesn’t mean I’ll be buying that private island anytime soon but it does end up paying out more than what this artist probably would have made via the flat fee she wanted. No doubt the writer of the article would have been snarkily outraged by that too.
Also worth mentioning that for bands like PJ and Metallica, the fanbases are so passionate that these posters usually sell out pretty quickly and easily. Things get infinitely trickier when it’s a smaller band.
Ultimately, it’s very difficult to make a living as an artist on your own terms. That’s the sad truth of it. It’s a lot of hard work outside of just creating and drawing so yeah, you have to set your boundaries as to what you’ll accept and what you won’t. (Personally, I’d drive over kittens to do a PJ poster!)

So... if you work harder and put more time in, you can achieve a much higher payday.  That seems pretty consistent with, like, working and having a job..... Especially if you are self-employed

That wasn't really his point. With this model, the artist has to do a lot of administrative work to sell the APs or they wouldn't get paid at all. The time he spends buying tubes, packing up posters, making mailing labels, etc, is time that he's not drawing. So in a sense, having to work harder on that stuff causes him to lose money by preventing or delaying work on other projects. But he could probably outsource those tasks 

I get that.  As a self employed or assumed to be solo artist, all of that is part of the job though.  I spend about 80% of my day doing paperwork, admin work, or practice management stuff and only about 20% of my day seeing patients, the "drawing" equivalent for an artist.  

cincybearcat

This article doesn't include enough information/data to have any idea about this process as a whole.  All you can take from it is this one artist doesn't usually work that way and was confused.  Instead of making a decision just kept communicating how weird it was.  And then TShurt kinda seemed to just snap and moved on.  It's a great example of....pick up the phone and talk it out instead of just continuing some weird email conversation that is getting no where.  

Now - I would love to know what is the "normal practice".  What other artists think about PJ practice.  How much is normal if paid in cash for this service. How much do Pearl Jam artists get on average due of this process.  What's the least amount of $ an artist earned from agreeing to this process for Pearl Jam.  What's the highest?

And then I'd like to ask, was this process the band's idea?  

F Me In The Brain

Call in the feds and open a case in the house!  
Full investigation!

As silly as that sounds, and I meant it as a total joke, this is more useful than investigating Hunter Biden.

LizJ

I think one major point the article left out is mentioning, what the industry standard for doing a gig poster would be, if it the artist would be given a fee or flatrate for the design. And from what I have read (you can e.g. find Brad Klausen talking about the poster industry in several threads on this board) the standard would be something between 200- 500 Dollars. Not saying that this is to a good compensation for doing the work, just that you need to put this in perspective. 

Ken Taylor also commented on David Farriers Facebook- page saying that this deal might look unusual for people not working in the poster industry, but that it is a great deal and gives some more insight why he thinks that. 

goblues82

Perhaps this is why the posters are USUALLY SUB STANDARD. The artists are getting a raw deal. Especially when they ask for clarification and are treated like they should be falling over to work for posters. If I was them, I’d do the best I could and then sell all 100 one by one to the highest bidder. 

goblues82

elvistheking44 said:

Ask Nicole Rifkin how her experience went. If you do decide to work for the big boys, be prepared to bring your A game in all aspects of your business.  Maybe Jess wouldn’t have been up to par to begin with.

You think a 4 eyed cowboy and baby brain is anyone’s “A game”… more like half ass it because you’re getting paid like shit. 

pdalowsky

Jimmydean55 said:

FWIW, this is taken directly from a guy who has done a few posters for Metallica. 

Hmm. I don’t wanna get too into how the sausage gets made but yeah, this is pretty much the standard payment to create posters for bands. I’m always a little torn about whether it’s a fair method. It’s certainly a LOT of work outside of actually creating the posters themselves. Ordering tubes and shipping supplies, gathering addresses, mailing orders, etc. A lot of stress and effort. In the end, I just wanna draw things. 
In saying that, it more than evens out financially if you’re willing to put the effort in. It doesn’t mean I’ll be buying that private island anytime soon but it does end up paying out more than what this artist probably would have made via the flat fee she wanted. No doubt the writer of the article would have been snarkily outraged by that too.
Also worth mentioning that for bands like PJ and Metallica, the fanbases are so passionate that these posters usually sell out pretty quickly and easily. Things get infinitely trickier when it’s a smaller band.
Ultimately, it’s very difficult to make a living as an artist on your own terms. That’s the sad truth of it. It’s a lot of hard work outside of just creating and drawing so yeah, you have to set your boundaries as to what you’ll accept and what you won’t. (Personally, I’d drive over kittens to do a PJ poster!)

Somebody introduce this guy to Tsurt and save the kittens

F Me In The Brain

Jimmydean55

🤣

NWROCKS

Yes there was a certain slant to the article saying the artist was being screwed but I think (without a lot of data) that this is an industry standard for paying  a poster artist for a concert. And the better the poster design ( and artist reputation) then the more  and the quicker they are paid. I also wonder if the artist was paid directly would they make more than $10K per poster project. The artist gets exposure  to new potential customers and when I buy a poster from an unknown artist it puts them on my radar and I may purchase more of their work and be attentive to future projects they do. My 2 cents.

tschav

It's additional hustle for sure, so getting compensated for artwork by creating it, selling it and shipping it has to be a significant portion of cost being put on the artist. I'd be curious how artists for cancelled shows fare in the process.

That being said, I've talked with TSURT about potential projects - not on the poster side - and he is a decent guy. Sometimes the most fun and amazing opportunities for artists come with caveats and less guarantees, but some also do well and become part of the merch roster. I'm guessing Ian Williams isn't getting paid 100x shirts and pins, and we see artists coming back for more rounds of posters, so it can't be a completely flawed system. 

bootlegger10

tschav said:

It's additional hustle for sure, so getting compensated for artwork by creating it, selling it and shipping it has to be a significant portion of cost being put on the artist. I'd be curious how artists for cancelled shows fare in the process.

This is what artists do with all of their own projects already, right?  Jess Johnson has a store where she sells her prints.  

So Jess is cool creating a print, selling it, and shipping it on her website for $170USD.    So, all she needs to do is ask herself, am I fine doing what I'm already doing, stamping Pearl jam on the print, and selling 100 of them on my website for $100USD (and some may sit on my site just like my other ones).    

The artist is really in the same spot, so I'm not sure why the artist should complain.  If they can make more with their own stuff pass up the deal.  Pearl Jam does win though.  They get free art.