The Curious Case Of The Pearl Jam Posters

Jimmydean55

https://www.webworm.co/p/pearljam

Interesting read but I don’t think it’s out of the norm for big bands like PJ and Metallica. 

on2legs

Check the 2024 rumor thread. 

Jimmydean55

Ah, my bad. Haven’t checked that thread in a while. 

Loujoe

Sux, did she do that Quebec poster? Also Ames gets extra prints to sell for phat cash. Don't like it. Do love posters.

demetrios

Loujoe said:

Sux, did she do that Quebec poster? Also Ames gets extra prints to sell for phat cash. Don't like it. Do love posters.

No she didn't. The Quebec poster was done by Dave Quiggle. 

https://instagram.com/p/CD_rqHsJR7J/embed/

Loujoe

Ridiculous to treat artists like that. Ruthless and sad. Yet most of these artists I wouldn't know of if they didn't do stuff for pj. Whatever. A lot I probably don't understand about the business of it all.
Love you all

pjl44

I would need to know what other big bands pay for one-off show posters. The lack of that context makes me skeptical of the author. The only other anonymous feedback from an artist quotes their shipping costs which doesn't make sense - I always get charged shipping.

I need a lot more info to determine whether or not this is a fair arrangement.

Loujoe

Maybe artist has to pay to ship posters to pj? Who knows. Brad Klausen seems to be cool with the deal. 

on2legs

It’s an incentive based system.  Paying a flat fee over time is going to lead to some artists mailing it in.  If you make a banger of a poster you’re going to get paid well when your AP’s sell.  Make a dud and you get what you get.  

JimmyV

Pros and cons to every system, but paying people for their work is tried and true. Why complicate it like this?

HoldeIN

Would be interesting to hear from other artists that have done it both ways (article only provided one that's not done it). Daniel Danger replied to the author's post stating it's much more lucrative for him to do it this way but does come with some upfront understanding, maybe potential challenge.

Weston1283

You would think that 100 posters at $100 a pop would be a much bigger payout than a normal pay for piece price, no?  Unless contract art is going for those prices now, I guess I wouldn't know

on2legs

It’s not like there was a bait and switch and I feel like that’s how the article and the artist at the heart of it were spinning it.   Basically they assumed it would be a flat fee and when the deal was explained they acted like someone tried to pull a fast one or tried to be dishonest with them.  

demetrios

Weston1283 said:

You would think that 100 posters at $100 a pop would be a much bigger payout than a normal pay for piece price, no?  Unless contract art is going for those prices now, I guess I wouldn't know

I know right? Some past artists have sold their AP editions for over $100 US a pop and all of their 100 prints sold out in seconds. Too bad this artist doesn't understand how this process works. She could of made $10,000 in a few seconds. And that doesn't include shipping costs where few artists charge a little more. Plus if the fans love the work you will probably get another chance to create another Pearl Jam poster. Who would turn down that kind of offer? The coverage & advertising the band & fans do, it's incredible!

Other then Jess Johnson, which other artist(s) out there have turned down an offer to create a Pearl Jam gig poster?

..

https://instagram.com/p/C1aHq8dSkv_/embed/

matt84

demetrios said:

Weston1283 said:

You would think that 100 posters at $100 a pop would be a much bigger payout than a normal pay for piece price, no?  Unless contract art is going for those prices now, I guess I wouldn't know

I know right? Some past artists have sold their AP editions for over $100 US a pop and all of their 100 prints sold out in seconds. Too bad this artist doesn't understand how this process works. She could of made $10,000 in a few seconds. And that doesn't include shipping costs where few artists charge a little more. Plus if the fans love the work you will probably get another chance to create another Pearl Jam poster. Who would turn down that kind of offer? The coverage & advertising the band & fans do, it's incredible!

Other then Jess Johnson, which other artist(s) out there have turned down an offer to create a Pearl Jam gig poster?

..

https://instagram.com/p/C1aHq8dSkv_/embed/

Her artwork really doesn’t look like it would work as a Pearl Jam gig poster. Not for me anyway.

lolobugg

Wow. she really fucked up this opportunity. it's weird that she wouldn't know how the major poster industry works. this is standard operating procedure for most major artists. 

bootlegger10

Weston1283 said:

You would think that 100 posters at $100 a pop would be a much bigger payout than a normal pay for piece price, no?  Unless contract art is going for those prices now, I guess I wouldn't know

Right.   What if TSurt said they would pay $10,000, would she have taken it?  That's what I wonder.  Sure, she is taking on some risk that not all of the APs will sell, and she has to be the one to spend time shipping and dealing with 100 customers.   Adds some additional skin in the game to make something really good if she has to sell it herself to make money (but making a poster for PJ should hopefully be enough to design something good).

igotid88

demetrios said:

Weston1283 said:

You would think that 100 posters at $100 a pop would be a much bigger payout than a normal pay for piece price, no?  Unless contract art is going for those prices now, I guess I wouldn't know

I know right? Some past artists have sold their AP editions for over $100 US a pop and all of their 100 prints sold out in seconds. Too bad this artist doesn't understand how this process works. She could of made $10,000 in a few seconds. And that doesn't include shipping costs where few artists charge a little more. Plus if the fans love the work you will probably get another chance to create another Pearl Jam poster. Who would turn down that kind of offer? The coverage & advertising the band & fans do, it's incredible!

Other then Jess Johnson, which other artist(s) out there have turned down an offer to create a Pearl Jam gig poster?

..

https://instagram.com/p/C1aHq8dSkv_/embed/

Bella Grace has responded 

bootlegger10

Funny she didn’t include the full email.  She is definitely not operating in good faith.  

I would be stoked to sit home and draw and get paid for it versus having a real job.

hrd2imgn

Artists have been getting screwed forever.....ever download a song off napster, click save image as? None of this should be a surprise that artists are being exploited.  PJ knows all about it

bootlegger10

Who is being exploited here?  If she can sell her art for $10k without PJ’s name on it then decline the offer.  If she will make more on the project with PJ’s name on it then do the work for Pearl Jam.  No exploitation. 

Exploitation would be PJ telling them they do the artwork for exposure only. 

Merkin Baller

Meh... there's probably no shortage of artists who would jump at the chance, this artist wasn't one of them. One could argue Tsurt was rude, but OTOH he clearly didn't want to wait around for an answer. 

I see no problem here. 

F Me In The Brain

Also implying that they draw vs a real job is kinda weak as well.  
Does one have to pump gas, wear a tie, or work an 8 hour shift to have a real job?
Pretty sure the band would disagree with that take.

Agree that she should have included the whole email if she wanted to share....without context you cannot tell if tsurt is indeed being rude or if she had more to say, if more was explained, etc.

It does seem odd, though, given that this is the way things seem to run and it hasn't been a secret.  I don't know anything about her, though.

Loujoe

igotid88 said:

demetrios said:

Weston1283 said:

You would think that 100 posters at $100 a pop would be a much bigger payout than a normal pay for piece price, no?  Unless contract art is going for those prices now, I guess I wouldn't know

I know right? Some past artists have sold their AP editions for over $100 US a pop and all of their 100 prints sold out in seconds. Too bad this artist doesn't understand how this process works. She could of made $10,000 in a few seconds. And that doesn't include shipping costs where few artists charge a little more. Plus if the fans love the work you will probably get another chance to create another Pearl Jam poster. Who would turn down that kind of offer? The coverage & advertising the band & fans do, it's incredible!

Other then Jess Johnson, which other artist(s) out there have turned down an offer to create a Pearl Jam gig poster?

..

https://instagram.com/p/C1aHq8dSkv_/embed/

Bella Grace has responded 

What did she say? Just curious. She seemed thrilled to do ev poster.

Merkin Baller

Jess Johnson has a pretty decent online store set up too, so it's not like she's completely in the dark about online sales or how to move her product. 

I get it... if I was in NZ and had to deal w/ shipping most (all?) of the posters overseas it might give me pause too... I can see both sides but I also don't think anyone was really wronged here either... to paint this as some shadiness on the part of PJ or Tsurt is a stretch. 

drfox

Loujoe said:

igotid88 said:

demetrios said:

Weston1283 said:

You would think that 100 posters at $100 a pop would be a much bigger payout than a normal pay for piece price, no?  Unless contract art is going for those prices now, I guess I wouldn't know

I know right? Some past artists have sold their AP editions for over $100 US a pop and all of their 100 prints sold out in seconds. Too bad this artist doesn't understand how this process works. She could of made $10,000 in a few seconds. And that doesn't include shipping costs where few artists charge a little more. Plus if the fans love the work you will probably get another chance to create another Pearl Jam poster. Who would turn down that kind of offer? The coverage & advertising the band & fans do, it's incredible!

Other then Jess Johnson, which other artist(s) out there have turned down an offer to create a Pearl Jam gig poster?

..

https://instagram.com/p/C1aHq8dSkv_/embed/

Bella Grace has responded 

What did she say? Just curious. She seemed thrilled to do ev poster.

Just read Jess Johnson’s (flesh_dozer) Instagram post. Bella Grace commented on it saying PJ / Tsurt is one of the best clients she has worked with and that Johnson was acting unprofessional and should have done her homework.  Grace said selling PJ posters is fantastic opportunity.

mpedone

Brad Klausen has talked about this here in the past. It sounded like artists got some money upfront, but the real "pay" was the APs. I don't *love* this business model, but it is what it is (I'm also no businessman/accountant, and have no insight on the finances on either side). There is some evidence that it does lead to a decent payday. On top of that, I would suspect that more than a few of us have discovered some artists that we've become patrons of outside of PJ prints (hello, Messirs Klausen, Mumford, and Martin).

On the flipside, wasn't there an artist in 2022 who had major issues with their AP sale?If you're not used to that kind of sale/demand, or don't have the structure/overhead to handle it, that kind of offer might be a non-starter. We all understand that this is how it works, but to an outsider? This definitely feels like "paying with exposure". Also, the responses were a little terse, if not rude. "I'd like to think it over." "Fine. Offer rescended [sic]."

All of that said, would it have killed the author to include a link to Jess's site? I guess while arguing against paying with exposure, he felt it would be gauche to give her some exposure? Having found a link to her site (https://www.jessjohnson.org/), I think her comment about there not being much crossover was inaccurate. She might not have many PJ fans buying her stuff now, but I think if she did a poster, she probably would. It's not exactly *my* style, but I could see people liking it (and equally as many posts here saying it's the worst ever, etc).

I do hope she creates a "No Harm No Foal" poster, though.

pjl44

Merkin Baller said:

Meh... there's probably no shortage of artists who would jump at the chance, this artist wasn't one of them. One could argue Tsurt was rude, but OTOH he clearly didn't want to wait around for an answer. 

I see no problem here. 

Yeah, I'm sure there are deadlines for all this stuff. If she's not doing it, they need to find someone else. He may not have time for her to mull it over, gather feedback, crunch numbers. Maybe he could have been a little less short but whatever.

pjl44

Also let's be clear that this is not an "exposure" situation unless other bands are paying like 50k. The artist is absolutely being compensated and I've seen nothing so far that suggests it shakes out to a rate below the market even.

Merkin Baller

mpedone said:

I do hope she creates a "No Harm No Foal" poster, though.

Sure, if she wants to ratchet up the pettiness. It was a typo, and her emphasis on it was particularly snarky. 

Bella Grace was right about Johnson's unprofessionalism here. 

EDIT - *the* emphasis on the typo was particularly snarky - I realize it wasn't Johnson who wrote that newsletter. 

elvistheking44

Ask Nicole Rifkin how her experience went. If you do decide to work for the big boys, be prepared to bring your A game in all aspects of your business.  Maybe Jess wouldn’t have been up to par to begin with.