End of the American Republic?

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  • brianlux
    brianlux Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 43,662
    Mamani is a democratic socialist.  It's odd to my that so many people cringe at any mention of the word socialism, especially the milder version, democratic socialism.  They hear that word and automatically think of communism as if they are the same thing.  For some reason, many people prefer an oligarchic pecking order to a more egalitarian society.  Countries that follow democratic socialism (Scandinavian countries, France, Spain, for example) have fewer problems, less violence, and happier people.
    But imagine the U.S. without problems, violence, disparity, and anger?  Noooooooooo, we can't have none of that!
    "It's a sad and beautiful world"
    -Roberto Benigni

  • cblock4life
    cblock4life Posts: 1,855
    Halifax2TheMax said:
    Sure, we can’t possibly raise taxes or provide for a higher minimum wage. Impossible. There’s just not enough to go around.


    Hmmm.  No women.  Not that I’m surprised I just find it quite sad.  Oh well, the meek shall inherit the earth.  
  • Stove
    Stove Posts: 370
    gotthebottle said:
    Halifax2TheMax said:
    Good night, ‘Murikkka. We hardly knew ya. From Letter From An American:

    At about 10:30 this morning local time,  heavily armed masked agents in trucks, armored vehicles, a helicopter, on foot, and on horseback, accompanied by a gun mounted on a truck raided the MacArthur Park area of Los Angeles. Journalist Mel Buer reported that agents from Customs and Border Patrol (CBP), the National Guard, and Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE) brought what he called a “massive federal presence.”  

    Fox News Channel personnel were embedded with the raiders and broadcast throughout the operation, suggesting that it was designed for the media as a show of force to intimidate opponents. CBP brought its own press team, and its people were also taking photos of bystanders. After Los Angeles mayor Karen Bass arrived and spoke with Border Patrol Chief Gregory Bovino,  the agents left. It is not clear that there was a specific target for the raid, or that anyone was arrested.

    Later, Bovino told Bill Melugin of the Fox News Channel, “I don’t work for Karen Bass. Better get used to us now, cause this is going to be normal very soon. We will go anywhere, anytime we want in Los Angeles.”

    War is coming....

    To America or LA...it won't be much of a war...everyone has bombs now. It's like when people say WW3. We all nuke each other...thats it. 
  • Tim Simmons
    Tim Simmons Posts: 9,537
    brianlux said:
    Mamani is a democratic socialist.  It's odd to my that so many people cringe at any mention of the word socialism, especially the milder version, democratic socialism.  They hear that word and automatically think of communism as if they are the same thing. 
    I mean, thats been the plan of conservative messaging and fear mongering for 60 years. to say nothing of people not really understand the basic tenants of these ideologies. 

  • brianlux
    brianlux Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 43,662
    Tim Simmons said:
    brianlux said:
    Mamani is a democratic socialist.  It's odd to my that so many people cringe at any mention of the word socialism, especially the milder version, democratic socialism.  They hear that word and automatically think of communism as if they are the same thing. 
    I mean, thats been the plan of conservative messaging and fear mongering for 60 years. to say nothing of people not really understand the basic tenants of these ideologies. 


    60 years of that nonsense sounds about right.  That's about when I first heard this kind of ignorant far right bullshit being tossed around.  Kind of goes to show some things never change. 
    "It's a sad and beautiful world"
    -Roberto Benigni

  • PJ_Soul
    PJ_Soul Vancouver, BC Posts: 50,665
    edited July 9
    brianlux said:
    Mamani is a democratic socialist.  It's odd to my that so many people cringe at any mention of the word socialism, especially the milder version, democratic socialism.  They hear that word and automatically think of communism as if they are the same thing.  For some reason, many people prefer an oligarchic pecking order to a more egalitarian society.  Countries that follow democratic socialism (Scandinavian countries, France, Spain, for example) have fewer problems, less violence, and happier people.
    But imagine the U.S. without problems, violence, disparity, and anger?  Noooooooooo, we can't have none of that!

    It just seems like ridiculous semantics to me. The majority of Americans, apparently, don't even know wtf they are talking about when it comes to this, made mostly obvious by how misused the term "communist" is in the country. It's pure stupidity  
    With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
  • brianlux
    brianlux Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 43,662
    PJ_Soul said:
    brianlux said:
    Mamani is a democratic socialist.  It's odd to my that so many people cringe at any mention of the word socialism, especially the milder version, democratic socialism.  They hear that word and automatically think of communism as if they are the same thing.  For some reason, many people prefer an oligarchic pecking order to a more egalitarian society.  Countries that follow democratic socialism (Scandinavian countries, France, Spain, for example) have fewer problems, less violence, and happier people.
    But imagine the U.S. without problems, violence, disparity, and anger?  Noooooooooo, we can't have none of that!

    It just seems like ridiculous semantics to me. The majority of Americans, apparently, don't even know wtf they are talking about when it comes to this, made mostly obvious by how misused the term "communist" is in the country. It's pure stupidity  

    Exactly!  
    And even when the difference between concepts has been pointed out god knows how many times, the same misunderstanding keeps showing up. 
    "It's a sad and beautiful world"
    -Roberto Benigni

  • OnWis97
    OnWis97 St. Paul, MN Posts: 5,610
    brianlux said:
    PJ_Soul said:
    brianlux said:
    Mamani is a democratic socialist.  It's odd to my that so many people cringe at any mention of the word socialism, especially the milder version, democratic socialism.  They hear that word and automatically think of communism as if they are the same thing.  For some reason, many people prefer an oligarchic pecking order to a more egalitarian society.  Countries that follow democratic socialism (Scandinavian countries, France, Spain, for example) have fewer problems, less violence, and happier people.
    But imagine the U.S. without problems, violence, disparity, and anger?  Noooooooooo, we can't have none of that!

    It just seems like ridiculous semantics to me. The majority of Americans, apparently, don't even know wtf they are talking about when it comes to this, made mostly obvious by how misused the term "communist" is in the country. It's pure stupidity  

    Exactly!  
    And even when the difference between concepts has been pointed out god knows how many times, the same misunderstanding keeps showing up. 
    It's been going on for decades. Before the installation of Pinochet in Chile to avoid "socialism."

    And given the expanding fear machine, people are becoming more accepting of doing anything terrible because communism must not happen...even if communism is the same stuff we used to embrace.
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  • Lerxst1992
    Lerxst1992 Posts: 7,852
    Tim Simmons said:
    Policies for NYC may not work nationwide, but that op ed notes that he tapped into the economic anxiety and offered policy that could help relieve that. THAT will work nationwide, certainly for regional elections. It will be a good blueprint for 2028. 

    It’s great that you are discussing politely, but I’m struggling to think of an example where someone promised free stuff in swing states and voters responded with loyalty to those politicians statewide.

    the key to political power the next few cycles is the White House and senate, and with more and more states being out of reach for democrats, it’s difficult to envision a Mamdani AOC  wing of the party be nothing more than a tool for the right to win senate elections and electoral votes. “Look at all the new socialists!!” Boom ten million new gop voters. . Unless I’m missing a trend the last few cycles. 2020 was great, but didn’t last, and voters were not loyal to the stuff Biden brought them, and Harris didn’t even fight for recognition of those wins in the election. And there were a lot of 2020 mail in voters that for some reason don’t have 30 minutes to show up in person next time.
  • Lerxst1992
    Lerxst1992 Posts: 7,852
    brianlux said:
    PJ_Soul said:
    brianlux said:
    Mamani is a democratic socialist.  It's odd to my that so many people cringe at any mention of the word socialism, especially the milder version, democratic socialism.  They hear that word and automatically think of communism as if they are the same thing.  For some reason, many people prefer an oligarchic pecking order to a more egalitarian society.  Countries that follow democratic socialism (Scandinavian countries, France, Spain, for example) have fewer problems, less violence, and happier people.
    But imagine the U.S. without problems, violence, disparity, and anger?  Noooooooooo, we can't have none of that!

    It just seems like ridiculous semantics to me. The majority of Americans, apparently, don't even know wtf they are talking about when it comes to this, made mostly obvious by how misused the term "communist" is in the country. It's pure stupidity  

    Exactly!  
    And even when the difference between concepts has been pointed out god knows how many times, the same misunderstanding keeps showing up. 
    Promising free stuff just doesn’t work in states that swing senate and electoral votes. Y’all are serious about that elitist take? Yes, to support these views above that centrists know nothing, we are stupid, and it’s all semantics. Climb out of the hole already and see the sun.


    Dems have lost three states the Last ten years (OH IA FL), likely not coming back for decades, and that Texas blue shift never happened…and voters are physically moving from the blue states for red states, as it’s projected to cost blue states Ten electoral votes and house seats in the next census.  All moving south. But yes, to the ultra left it’s all semantics and we are stupid.


    If that projected census data is a misunderstanding, and the challenge of winning back the senate (holding four dem swing seats with many retiring) and finding four new red senate seats to take in the next two cycles, that’s happening with a socialist movement?


    There is good reason the centrists (like that op ed from Rep Suozzi ) towards the socialist woke wing of the party, and the ultra left has no details nor any realistic plan to win in middle America , where it’s desperately needed. I’m sure Rep Suozzi has no clue what he is talking about. Winning NYC is meaningless to the party and the country. It’ll just be fodder for the Rs to satirize.
  • Tim Simmons
    Tim Simmons Posts: 9,537
    Lerxst1992 said:
    Tim Simmons said:
    Policies for NYC may not work nationwide, but that op ed notes that he tapped into the economic anxiety and offered policy that could help relieve that. THAT will work nationwide, certainly for regional elections. It will be a good blueprint for 2028. 

    It’s great that you are discussing politely, but I’m struggling to think of an example where someone promised free stuff in swing states and voters responded with loyalty to those politicians statewide.

    the key to political power the next few cycles is the White House and senate, and with more and more states being out of reach for democrats, it’s difficult to envision a Mamdani AOC  wing of the party be nothing more than a tool for the right to win senate elections and electoral votes. “Look at all the new socialists!!” Boom ten million new gop voters. . Unless I’m missing a trend the last few cycles. 2020 was great, but didn’t last, and voters were not loyal to the stuff Biden brought them, and Harris didn’t even fight for recognition of those wins in the election. And there were a lot of 2020 mail in voters that for some reason don’t have 30 minutes to show up in person next time.
    IDK, this says more about Biden and Harris than it does about the policies.


    But politicians do this stuff all the time. Anytime one promises a tax cut, or Obama's healthcare plan. Doing popular stuff that people like is good and has success. 


  • Lerxst1992
    Lerxst1992 Posts: 7,852
    Tim Simmons said:
    Lerxst1992 said:
    Tim Simmons said:
    Policies for NYC may not work nationwide, but that op ed notes that he tapped into the economic anxiety and offered policy that could help relieve that. THAT will work nationwide, certainly for regional elections. It will be a good blueprint for 2028. 

    It’s great that you are discussing politely, but I’m struggling to think of an example where someone promised free stuff in swing states and voters responded with loyalty to those politicians statewide.

    the key to political power the next few cycles is the White House and senate, and with more and more states being out of reach for democrats, it’s difficult to envision a Mamdani AOC  wing of the party be nothing more than a tool for the right to win senate elections and electoral votes. “Look at all the new socialists!!” Boom ten million new gop voters. . Unless I’m missing a trend the last few cycles. 2020 was great, but didn’t last, and voters were not loyal to the stuff Biden brought them, and Harris didn’t even fight for recognition of those wins in the election. And there were a lot of 2020 mail in voters that for some reason don’t have 30 minutes to show up in person next time.
    IDK, this says more about Biden and Harris than it does about the policies.


    But politicians do this stuff all the time. Anytime one promises a tax cut, or Obama's healthcare plan. Doing popular stuff that people like is good and has success. 



    I don’t see any other way to bridge the gap between the country we want and the country we have. Looking at the complaints above from those posters that people in the center don’t understand Democratic socialism and they’re not smart if they don’t get it.

    the problem is we need politicians that know the country that is. Then do things out of the Democratic socialist playbook …and then tell the people look what we did …government can fix infrastructure. Government can fix the semiconductor chip problem. Government can make America a leader in renewable energy. Biden did all that, but the Democrats didn’t fight for it like their lives depended on it. 

    Harris had too many other priorities. If she said “….correction , I disagree with President Biden on X and Y… but when he delivered clean energy. When he delivered semiconductor chips, when he delivered an infrastructure bill Republicans failed at for 20 years” and she fought for that message like her life depended on it, we may be having a very different political discussion right now.


    so if we’re gonna do things that borrow from the idea that government can fix problems and don’t fight for it we will never get the country we want and people like mamdani are just wasting their time if they try to take their ideas outside of the isolated Democratic Enclaves that still exist 
  • Halifax2TheMax
    Halifax2TheMax Posts: 42,105
    Anyone who still doubts that the end is nigh, watch this Frontline episode. Then turn out the lights.

    https://youtu.be/28sQyweAPRs
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  • Halifax2TheMax
    Halifax2TheMax Posts: 42,105
    Y’all really need to watch the Frontline episode in the above link. Pay particular attention to what this guy, Mike Davis, and Steve O, and the rest of the unitary executive theorists have to say. It began with Shrub and Darth Cheney and the genie is out of the bottle. It took them 42 years to get here, since Hillary was a mere staffer on the Nixon Watergate impeachment committee, but they’re not going to go quietly into the night. It’s too late. Because if Dems ever return to power there’ll be litter boxes in classrooms, kids will come back from school re-gendered, men will compete in women’s sports, there’ll be open borders, crime will skyrocket, everyone will live and work on a collective and all white people will be replaced by the other. Good luck.


    https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/2024/09/20/mike-davis-trump-potential-attorney-general-profile-00179358
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  • Halifax2TheMax
    Halifax2TheMax Posts: 42,105
    Nah, it’s not too late! Everything is fine, just fine. So much for relief from the courts. 1,279 days to go.

    https://www.instagram.com/reel/DMN9pepvoSo/?igsh=MWpwNmhkZXhwYjBsMg==
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  • PJ_Soul
    PJ_Soul Vancouver, BC Posts: 50,665
    edited July 23
    This makes things pretty clear in terms of where the GOP is going at this point. There is no way anything is going back to normal, when there is a fairly significant number of people like this on their side (including some within the administration). 

    Tim & JVL React: Mehdi Hasan vs. 20 Far-Right Idiots





    Post edited by PJ_Soul on
    With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
  • Halifax2TheMax
    Halifax2TheMax Posts: 42,105
    If you doubt this, catch Kamala on Colbert. Laugh if you want. Dismiss it if you will. Gloat if you’re a Proud Boy, Nazi, 3%’er, DEI victim or mediocre white guy. But remember, you’ve been warned.

    At least you won’t have Kamala to kick around anymore.

    ”The rule of law used to mean something.”

    Goodnight.
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  • Halifax2TheMax
    Halifax2TheMax Posts: 42,105
    Geek law. You think stupid can follow this? Quick! Ask AI!

    https://www.instagram.com/reel/DMyK1LbvdO4/?igsh=MTd5c3Nna3M4ejdidQ==

    Hey, but in all seriousness, how’s our resident legal scholar doing? You know, the one who was going to school me and yet couldn’t cite the law regarding ICE having much more carte blanch? Remember that one? I hear they’ve moved on to gun control or something about Japan and some crime stats and stuff. But somehow they think they’re safe, something about white male privilege. Anyway, interesting times.

    ”Remember when the law used to matter?”
    09/15/1998 & 09/16/1998, Mansfield, MA; 08/29/00 08/30/00, Mansfield, MA; 07/02/03, 07/03/03, Mansfield, MA; 09/28/04, 09/29/04, Boston, MA; 09/22/05, Halifax, NS; 05/24/06, 05/25/06, Boston, MA; 07/22/06, 07/23/06, Gorge, WA; 06/27/2008, Hartford; 06/28/08, 06/30/08, Mansfield; 08/18/2009, O2, London, UK; 10/30/09, 10/31/09, Philadelphia, PA; 05/15/10, Hartford, CT; 05/17/10, Boston, MA; 05/20/10, 05/21/10, NY, NY; 06/22/10, Dublin, IRE; 06/23/10, Northern Ireland; 09/03/11, 09/04/11, Alpine Valley, WI; 09/11/11, 09/12/11, Toronto, Ont; 09/14/11, Ottawa, Ont; 09/15/11, Hamilton, Ont; 07/02/2012, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/04/2012 & 07/05/2012, Berlin, Germany; 07/07/2012, Stockholm, Sweden; 09/30/2012, Missoula, MT; 07/16/2013, London, Ont; 07/19/2013, Chicago, IL; 10/15/2013 & 10/16/2013, Worcester, MA; 10/21/2013 & 10/22/2013, Philadelphia, PA; 10/25/2013, Hartford, CT; 11/29/2013, Portland, OR; 11/30/2013, Spokane, WA; 12/04/2013, Vancouver, BC; 12/06/2013, Seattle, WA; 10/03/2014, St. Louis. MO; 10/22/2014, Denver, CO; 10/26/2015, New York, NY; 04/23/2016, New Orleans, LA; 04/28/2016 & 04/29/2016, Philadelphia, PA; 05/01/2016 & 05/02/2016, New York, NY; 05/08/2016, Ottawa, Ont.; 05/10/2016 & 05/12/2016, Toronto, Ont.; 08/05/2016 & 08/07/2016, Boston, MA; 08/20/2016 & 08/22/2016, Chicago, IL; 07/01/2018, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/03/2018, Krakow, Poland; 07/05/2018, Berlin, Germany; 09/02/2018 & 09/04/2018, Boston, MA; 09/08/2022, Toronto, Ont; 09/11/2022, New York, NY; 09/14/2022, Camden, NJ; 09/02/2023, St. Paul, MN; 05/04/2024 & 05/06/2024, Vancouver, BC; 05/10/2024, Portland, OR;

    Libtardaplorable©. And proud of it.

    Brilliantati©
  • Lerxst1992
    Lerxst1992 Posts: 7,852
    Halifax2TheMax said:
    Geek law. You think stupid can follow this? Quick! Ask AI!

    https://www.instagram.com/reel/DMyK1LbvdO4/?igsh=MTd5c3Nna3M4ejdidQ==

    Hey, but in all seriousness, how’s our resident legal scholar doing? You know, the one who was going to school me and yet couldn’t cite the law regarding ICE having much more carte blanch? Remember that one? I hear they’ve moved on to gun control or something about Japan and some crime stats and stuff. But somehow they think they’re safe, something about white male privilege. Anyway, interesting times.

    ”Remember when the law used to matter?”

    Your wish is my….


    ” Reports suggest that Senator Sheldon Whitehouse has been accused of potentially incorrect statements and actions on a few fronts:
    • Ethics Violation Related to Wife's Nonprofit: An ethics watchdog, the Foundation for Accountability & Civic Trust (FACT), filed a complaint alleging that Whitehouse violated Senate ethics policy by advocating for legislation that awarded his wife's nonprofit organization $7 million in government grants.
    • Supreme Court Ethics and Fact-Finding: Whitehouse has been a vocal critic of the Supreme Court, particularly regarding what he perceives as a tendency by conservative justices to engage in "extra-record" and "demonstrably false" fact-finding in their decisions. He argues this practice undermines the separation of powers and judicial restraint. Some commentators have criticized Whitehouse's approach to these issues, with one referring to it as a "quixotic crusade" and others suggesting he can sound "conspiratorial".
    • Handling of Kavanaugh Investigation: Whitehouse has also been critical of the FBI's supplemental background investigation of Justice Brett Kavanaugh, calling it a "fake" investigation and alleging that the Trump Administration and FBI misled the public and the Senate about its scope. Some senators criticized Whitehouse's characterization of the investigation as "fake". 
    It's important to note that these are allegations and criticisms, and the context of the situation and the motivations of the involved parties can be debated.
  • Halifax2TheMax
    Halifax2TheMax Posts: 42,105
    Lerxst1992 said:
    Halifax2TheMax said:
    Geek law. You think stupid can follow this? Quick! Ask AI!

    https://www.instagram.com/reel/DMyK1LbvdO4/?igsh=MTd5c3Nna3M4ejdidQ==

    Hey, but in all seriousness, how’s our resident legal scholar doing? You know, the one who was going to school me and yet couldn’t cite the law regarding ICE having much more carte blanch? Remember that one? I hear they’ve moved on to gun control or something about Japan and some crime stats and stuff. But somehow they think they’re safe, something about white male privilege. Anyway, interesting times.

    ”Remember when the law used to matter?”

    Your wish is my….


    ” Reports suggest that Senator Sheldon Whitehouse has been accused of potentially incorrect statements and actions on a few fronts:
    • Ethics Violation Related to Wife's Nonprofit: An ethics watchdog, the Foundation for Accountability & Civic Trust (FACT), filed a complaint alleging that Whitehouse violated Senate ethics policy by advocating for legislation that awarded his wife's nonprofit organization $7 million in government grants.
    • Supreme Court Ethics and Fact-Finding: Whitehouse has been a vocal critic of the Supreme Court, particularly regarding what he perceives as a tendency by conservative justices to engage in "extra-record" and "demonstrably false" fact-finding in their decisions. He argues this practice undermines the separation of powers and judicial restraint. Some commentators have criticized Whitehouse's approach to these issues, with one referring to it as a "quixotic crusade" and others suggesting he can sound "conspiratorial".
    • Handling of Kavanaugh Investigation: Whitehouse has also been critical of the FBI's supplemental background investigation of Justice Brett Kavanaugh, calling it a "fake" investigation and alleging that the Trump Administration and FBI misled the public and the Senate about its scope. Some senators criticized Whitehouse's characterization of the investigation as "fake". 
    It's important to note that these are allegations and criticisms, and the context of the situation and the motivations of the involved parties can be debated.
    Cool
    09/15/1998 & 09/16/1998, Mansfield, MA; 08/29/00 08/30/00, Mansfield, MA; 07/02/03, 07/03/03, Mansfield, MA; 09/28/04, 09/29/04, Boston, MA; 09/22/05, Halifax, NS; 05/24/06, 05/25/06, Boston, MA; 07/22/06, 07/23/06, Gorge, WA; 06/27/2008, Hartford; 06/28/08, 06/30/08, Mansfield; 08/18/2009, O2, London, UK; 10/30/09, 10/31/09, Philadelphia, PA; 05/15/10, Hartford, CT; 05/17/10, Boston, MA; 05/20/10, 05/21/10, NY, NY; 06/22/10, Dublin, IRE; 06/23/10, Northern Ireland; 09/03/11, 09/04/11, Alpine Valley, WI; 09/11/11, 09/12/11, Toronto, Ont; 09/14/11, Ottawa, Ont; 09/15/11, Hamilton, Ont; 07/02/2012, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/04/2012 & 07/05/2012, Berlin, Germany; 07/07/2012, Stockholm, Sweden; 09/30/2012, Missoula, MT; 07/16/2013, London, Ont; 07/19/2013, Chicago, IL; 10/15/2013 & 10/16/2013, Worcester, MA; 10/21/2013 & 10/22/2013, Philadelphia, PA; 10/25/2013, Hartford, CT; 11/29/2013, Portland, OR; 11/30/2013, Spokane, WA; 12/04/2013, Vancouver, BC; 12/06/2013, Seattle, WA; 10/03/2014, St. Louis. MO; 10/22/2014, Denver, CO; 10/26/2015, New York, NY; 04/23/2016, New Orleans, LA; 04/28/2016 & 04/29/2016, Philadelphia, PA; 05/01/2016 & 05/02/2016, New York, NY; 05/08/2016, Ottawa, Ont.; 05/10/2016 & 05/12/2016, Toronto, Ont.; 08/05/2016 & 08/07/2016, Boston, MA; 08/20/2016 & 08/22/2016, Chicago, IL; 07/01/2018, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/03/2018, Krakow, Poland; 07/05/2018, Berlin, Germany; 09/02/2018 & 09/04/2018, Boston, MA; 09/08/2022, Toronto, Ont; 09/11/2022, New York, NY; 09/14/2022, Camden, NJ; 09/02/2023, St. Paul, MN; 05/04/2024 & 05/06/2024, Vancouver, BC; 05/10/2024, Portland, OR;

    Libtardaplorable©. And proud of it.

    Brilliantati©
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