End of the American Republic?

brianlux

It would be interesting to take a poll and see how many think the U.S. will continue to be a Republic.  Or for that matter, are we still a Republic?  I have my doubts.

Gern Blansten

It's an odd situation. Trying to see through the noise is hard. 

trump is clearly trying to push the limits of the powers of the executive branch...so is he doing this because he and the GOP love the country so much that they think this is the only way to save it? Or is he a fucking Russian asset that is doing their bidding by tearing us apart from the core?

I honestly don't know.

Clearly enough of the population agrees with his bullshit. I'm no hardcore liberal but the idea of "government efficiency" makes no sense if someone else is going to have to spend twice as much repairing the damage in a few years.

None of this shit has been thought through. Now I'm reading that they are scrambling to rehire some that they have recently fired. It's just stupid.

Halifax2TheMax

It’s too late, despite that view out the window. From Letter From An American:

Political scientist Stathis Kalyvas posted: “There is now total clarity, no matter how unimaginable things might seem. And they amount to this: The U.S. government has been taken over by a clique of extremists who have embarked on a process of regime change in the world’s oldest democracy…. The arrogance on display is staggering. They think their actions will increase U.S. power, but they are in fact wrecking their own country and, in the process everyone else.”

He continued: “The only hope lies in the sheer enormity of the threat: it might awake us out of our slumber before it is too late.” 

A year ago today, on February 16, 2024, Russian opposition leader Alexei Navalny died at the hands of Russian authorities in the prison where he was being held on trumped-up charges.

brianlux

Gern Blansten said:

It's an odd situation. Trying to see through the noise is hard. 

trump is clearly trying to push the limits of the powers of the executive branch...so is he doing this because he and the GOP love the country so much that they think this is the only way to save it? Or is he a fucking Russian asset that is doing their bidding by tearing us apart from the core?

I honestly don't know.

Clearly enough of the population agrees with his bullshit. I'm no hardcore liberal but the idea of "government efficiency" makes no sense if someone else is going to have to spend twice as much repairing the damage in a few years.

None of this shit has been thought through. Now I'm reading that they are scrambling to rehire some that they have recently fired. It's just stupid.

I get the feeling that none of it was ever meant to be thought through- that the whole point is to break everything down and create chaos.  I don't see how it could be otherwise. I suppose being enormously infamous could also be a goal. 

josevolution

They said it couldn’t happen here 😂 here we are siding with dictators across the globe, Vance & Hegseth both siding with Russia and facist politicians! 

OnWis97

Gern Blansten said:

It's an odd situation. Trying to see through the noise is hard. 

trump is clearly trying to push the limits of the powers of the executive branch...so is he doing this because he and the GOP love the country so much that they think this is the only way to save it? Or is he a fucking Russian asset that is doing their bidding by tearing us apart from the core?

I honestly don't know.

Clearly enough of the population agrees with his bullshit. I'm no hardcore liberal but the idea of "government efficiency" makes no sense if someone else is going to have to spend twice as much repairing the damage in a few years.

None of this shit has been thought through. Now I'm reading that they are scrambling to rehire some that they have recently fired. It's just stupid.

I honestly do know that he's not doing it because he and the GOP love their country. He's proven time and time again that he's indifferent to the country and contemptuous of its people. The same can be said for Co-President Musk. 

Is it because he's doing Russia's bidding? It might not be that. But it is about consolidating power.  For him, he wanted the power and he's never been told "no." Therefore, I think he was frustrated by the road blocks and any challenges he got from media, process, etc. in his first term. For Co-President Musk it's about getting richer, tearing down all rules/regs/etc. that cause the ultra-rich any heartache, and being the most powerful person in the world. For the rest of the GOP, most of whom hated him eight years ago, it's about riding his coattails to being the only party of consequence so they can push a Project 2025 agenda. 

Halifax2TheMax

Beautiful day outside, eh? I see lots of checks and balances, don’t you?

brianlux

Halifax2TheMax said:

Beautiful day outside, eh? I see lots of checks and balances, don’t you?

Implosion is such a hoot, ain't it? 

Halifax2TheMax

brianlux said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

Beautiful day outside, eh? I see lots of checks and balances, don’t you?

Implosion is such a hoot, ain't it? 

More like a Darwin Award of the biggest standing. Huuuuuge! Many people are saying.

brianlux

Halifax2TheMax said:

brianlux said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

Beautiful day outside, eh? I see lots of checks and balances, don’t you?

Implosion is such a hoot, ain't it? 

More like a Darwin Award of the biggest standing. Huuuuuge! Many people are saying.

I hope we at least see the silver lining mentioned by Henry Rollins a few months ago when he said times like these often lead to the creation of great art and music. 

OnWis97

Halifax2TheMax said:

Beautiful day outside, eh? I see lots of checks and balances, don’t you?

Checks are woke and balances are the DEI addition to the Constitution. 

cincybearcat

Gern Blansten said:

Lerxst1992 said:

battle1 said:

Tim Simmons said:

battle1 said:j

Tim Simmons said:

I guess you have a lot more faith in the system. And hopefully everything he is doing is bullshit and it doesn't affect the country in any meaningful way. 

I hope you are right. I am just more pessimistic about this.


But yes, thats what I gather from your stance. You believe people here are handwringing (and you would be right) and you think there is nothing to handwring about. 
 

I believe our system will prevail as always. Is that so hard to understand. By all means be pessimistic, thats your choice, along with the rest of the A Moving Trainwreck posse. Fear yourselves to death for all I care. And I will continue try to remind you all that America will always prevail through checks and balances. Now go back to the regularly scheduled mean orange bad guy coup rhetoric. 

I agree it will prevail and don’t subscribe to it being “the end of the republic”, but I do believe aspects of our society will be fundamentally changed and things will be worse than they have been for many Americans. I think that’s the palpable fear people here are sensing and posting about and they have every right to be worried. 

I agree that aspects will be fundamentally different, at least for the next 4 years. That’s extremely unfortunate, but again, I believe America will overcome. As always. Again, the select few Trainwreckers are posting well beyond “palpable fear”, in my humble opinion. But happy to see we ultimately agree on something and happy to see at least one other person around here believes in our checks and balances. 

GO 🦅 BIRDS

Battle banned now? What the heck. Liberals here get away with not only talking about others, but mocking those who don’t agree. Support the right, you’re getting banned? Support the left, get away with a lot.

uh...pay attention, he isn't a trumpster. Follow the rules or take a time out. Pretty clear.

Perhaps but what he said is still true. Has been for many many years. 

HughFreakingDillon

cincybearcat said:

Gern Blansten said:

Lerxst1992 said:

battle1 said:

Tim Simmons said:

battle1 said:j

Tim Simmons said:

I guess you have a lot more faith in the system. And hopefully everything he is doing is bullshit and it doesn't affect the country in any meaningful way. 

I hope you are right. I am just more pessimistic about this.


But yes, thats what I gather from your stance. You believe people here are handwringing (and you would be right) and you think there is nothing to handwring about. 
 

I believe our system will prevail as always. Is that so hard to understand. By all means be pessimistic, thats your choice, along with the rest of the A Moving Trainwreck posse. Fear yourselves to death for all I care. And I will continue try to remind you all that America will always prevail through checks and balances. Now go back to the regularly scheduled mean orange bad guy coup rhetoric. 

I agree it will prevail and don’t subscribe to it being “the end of the republic”, but I do believe aspects of our society will be fundamentally changed and things will be worse than they have been for many Americans. I think that’s the palpable fear people here are sensing and posting about and they have every right to be worried. 

I agree that aspects will be fundamentally different, at least for the next 4 years. That’s extremely unfortunate, but again, I believe America will overcome. As always. Again, the select few Trainwreckers are posting well beyond “palpable fear”, in my humble opinion. But happy to see we ultimately agree on something and happy to see at least one other person around here believes in our checks and balances. 

GO 🦅 BIRDS

Battle banned now? What the heck. Liberals here get away with not only talking about others, but mocking those who don’t agree. Support the right, you’re getting banned? Support the left, get away with a lot.

uh...pay attention, he isn't a trumpster. Follow the rules or take a time out. Pretty clear.

Perhaps but what he said is still true. Has been for many many years. 

Another (Canadian) liberal got banned just this morning. 

No, it isn’t. There is just a higher incidence of trolls on this board who happen to be conservatives. That’s the internet for you. I’m sure on a right leaning board, the trolls would likely be the ones in the minority. 

cincybearcat

HughFreakingDillon said:

cincybearcat said:

Gern Blansten said:

Lerxst1992 said:

battle1 said:

Tim Simmons said:

battle1 said:j

Tim Simmons said:

I guess you have a lot more faith in the system. And hopefully everything he is doing is bullshit and it doesn't affect the country in any meaningful way. 

I hope you are right. I am just more pessimistic about this.


But yes, thats what I gather from your stance. You believe people here are handwringing (and you would be right) and you think there is nothing to handwring about. 
 

I believe our system will prevail as always. Is that so hard to understand. By all means be pessimistic, thats your choice, along with the rest of the A Moving Trainwreck posse. Fear yourselves to death for all I care. And I will continue try to remind you all that America will always prevail through checks and balances. Now go back to the regularly scheduled mean orange bad guy coup rhetoric. 

I agree it will prevail and don’t subscribe to it being “the end of the republic”, but I do believe aspects of our society will be fundamentally changed and things will be worse than they have been for many Americans. I think that’s the palpable fear people here are sensing and posting about and they have every right to be worried. 

I agree that aspects will be fundamentally different, at least for the next 4 years. That’s extremely unfortunate, but again, I believe America will overcome. As always. Again, the select few Trainwreckers are posting well beyond “palpable fear”, in my humble opinion. But happy to see we ultimately agree on something and happy to see at least one other person around here believes in our checks and balances. 

GO 🦅 BIRDS

Battle banned now? What the heck. Liberals here get away with not only talking about others, but mocking those who don’t agree. Support the right, you’re getting banned? Support the left, get away with a lot.

uh...pay attention, he isn't a trumpster. Follow the rules or take a time out. Pretty clear.

Perhaps but what he said is still true. Has been for many many years. 

Another (Canadian) liberal got banned just this morning. 

No, it isn’t. There is just a higher incidence of trolls on this board who happen to be conservatives. That’s the internet for you. I’m sure on a right leaning board, the trolls would likely be the ones in the minority. 

Well as I think about it, I guess neither one of us actually has the data to support our claims. 

It is something that I believe I have witnessed in these boards over many years. A much longer leash for the name callers that lean liberal…including people in this thread. 

But perhaps, it’s just due to what I want to see…and you as well. I guess it doesn’t matter and hard to argue it now anyhow as the maga trolls are pretty extreme right now. 

Halifax2TheMax

What was that about a coup, again? From Letter From An American:

The Constitution gives to Congress, not the president, the power to impose tariffs. But the International Emergency Economic Powers Act allows the president to impose tariffs if he declares a national emergency under the National Emergencies Act, which Trump did on February 1. That same law allows Congress to end such a declaration of emergency, but if such a termination is introduced—as Democrats have recently done—it has to be taken up in a matter of days.    

But this would force Republicans to go on record as either supporting or opposing the unpopular economic ideology Trump and Musk are imposing. So Republicans just passed a measure saying that for the rest of this congressional session, “each day…shall not constitute a calendar day” for the purposes of terminating Trump’s emergency declaration.   

The Republicans’ legislation that a day is not a day seems to prove the truth of Burke’s observation that by trying to force reality to fit their ideology, radical ideologues will end up imposing tyranny in the name of liberty.

brianlux

Halifax2TheMax said:

What was that about a coup, again? From Letter From An American:

The Constitution gives to Congress, not the president, the power to impose tariffs. But the International Emergency Economic Powers Act allows the president to impose tariffs if he declares a national emergency under the National Emergencies Act, which Trump did on February 1. That same law allows Congress to end such a declaration of emergency, but if such a termination is introduced—as Democrats have recently done—it has to be taken up in a matter of days.    

But this would force Republicans to go on record as either supporting or opposing the unpopular economic ideology Trump and Musk are imposing. So Republicans just passed a measure saying that for the rest of this congressional session, “each day…shall not constitute a calendar day” for the purposes of terminating Trump’s emergency declaration.   

The Republicans’ legislation that a day is not a day seems to prove the truth of Burke’s observation that by trying to force reality to fit their ideology, radical ideologues will end up imposing tyranny in the name of liberty.

OK, so now a day is not a day.  What was once a joke, and then became a game, is now science fiction B grade movie of the lowest quality and ratings along the lines of "Battlefield Earth". 

mickeyrat

brianlux said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

What was that about a coup, again? From Letter From An American:

The Constitution gives to Congress, not the president, the power to impose tariffs. But the International Emergency Economic Powers Act allows the president to impose tariffs if he declares a national emergency under the National Emergencies Act, which Trump did on February 1. That same law allows Congress to end such a declaration of emergency, but if such a termination is introduced—as Democrats have recently done—it has to be taken up in a matter of days.    

But this would force Republicans to go on record as either supporting or opposing the unpopular economic ideology Trump and Musk are imposing. So Republicans just passed a measure saying that for the rest of this congressional session, “each day…shall not constitute a calendar day” for the purposes of terminating Trump’s emergency declaration.   

The Republicans’ legislation that a day is not a day seems to prove the truth of Burke’s observation that by trying to force reality to fit their ideology, radical ideologues will end up imposing tyranny in the name of liberty.

OK, so now a day is not a day.  What was once a joke, and then became a game, is now science fiction B grade movie of the lowest quality and ratings along the lines of "Battlefield Earth". 

God damn scientologists

Halifax2TheMax

mickeyrat said:

brianlux said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

What was that about a coup, again? From Letter From An American:

The Constitution gives to Congress, not the president, the power to impose tariffs. But the International Emergency Economic Powers Act allows the president to impose tariffs if he declares a national emergency under the National Emergencies Act, which Trump did on February 1. That same law allows Congress to end such a declaration of emergency, but if such a termination is introduced—as Democrats have recently done—it has to be taken up in a matter of days.    

But this would force Republicans to go on record as either supporting or opposing the unpopular economic ideology Trump and Musk are imposing. So Republicans just passed a measure saying that for the rest of this congressional session, “each day…shall not constitute a calendar day” for the purposes of terminating Trump’s emergency declaration.   

The Republicans’ legislation that a day is not a day seems to prove the truth of Burke’s observation that by trying to force reality to fit their ideology, radical ideologues will end up imposing tyranny in the name of liberty.

OK, so now a day is not a day.  What was once a joke, and then became a game, is now science fiction B grade movie of the lowest quality and ratings along the lines of "Battlefield Earth". 

God damn scientologists

Fuck Tom Cruise.

Halifax2TheMax

One damn ugly ass country and culture, that’s who. From Letter From An American:

As law professor Steve Vladeck explains, the administration is asserting that Trump himself can determine that the country is at war although it obviously isn’t, an assertion that Tim Balk of the New York Times notes would give Trump the power to arrest, detain, and deport all migrants over the age of 14 without due process, as he determined who is a gang member without due process. We have no evidence that the men deported were gang members, and now they have vanished. 

In addition, the administration appears to have violated the orders of the court. As legal analyst Harry Litman wrote: “The table is set for the most direct showdown of Trump and the courts to date. Administration admits today that 100s of supposed gang members were deported w/ no process. chief judge of district court Jeb Boasberg had ordered them not to do it and to return any planes that had been sent.”

Legal commentator Joyce White Vance added that although there will be fights over who did what, when, the case will be headed to the Supreme Court, where Trump will hope for a decision “that says he can do these deportations regardless of other legal issues, because he is the president, and the president has the power to do whatever he deems necessary under Article II of the Constitution.” She adds:” If presidents can do whatever they want, including putting people on a plane and sending them to prisons in a foreign country with no due process whatsoever, then really, who are we?”

Trump’s erosion of the rule of law has been speeding up since he took office. On March 6 he began to target lawyers when he signed an executive order designed to put the Perkins Coie law firm, which often represents Democratic politicians and organizations, out of business. After a judge blocked his order harassing Perkins Coie, Trump followed it with attacks on the Paul, Weiss law firm, and then on Covington. 

On Friday Trump appeared at the Department of Justice, the arm of government charged with protecting the equal protection of the laws, where he said those who challenge his actions are “horrible people. They are scum.” The president of the United States identified lawyers he dislikes by name from the Department of Justice, an astonishing attempt to undermine the rule of law by endangering particular individuals who would protect it.

“We are inevitably headed,” Vance wrote, “to a confrontation between a president who has rejected the rule of law and a judge sworn to enforce it. We are in an exceedingly dangerous moment for democracy.”

In Common Sense, when he made the argument against monarchy that would drive the colonists to create their own new form of government, Thomas Paine warned his neighbors that without the rule of law, the country belongs to a king. He urged them to turn away from a world that gave one man such absolute power. “[S]o far as we approve of monarchy,” he wrote, “in America the law is King. For as in absolute governments the King is law, so in free countries the law ought to be King; and there ought to be no other.”

Trump’s West Palm Beach golf club held its championship today. He posted tonight that he is proud to have won it again this year. 

OnWis97

It happened more quickly than I thought it would. 

But I do not think it's hyperbolic to say, after the invalidation of the Biden pardons* and the defied court orders. This is now a dictatorship. We've hit enough of a milestone.

*I know it was just a late-night rant tweet. But he has the power to make it happen now. The other two branches have neutered themselves.