Jordan Neely

Merkin Baller

tempo_n_groove said:

Gern Blansten said:

tempo_n_groove said:

nicknyr15 said:

Gern Blansten said:

nicknyr15 said:

Gern Blansten said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

Gern Blansten said:

https://twitter.com/nytimes/status/1656766280018325504

Manslaughter...

Witnesses told the police that Mr. Neely had been shouting at passengers, but there has been no indication that he physically attacked anyone.
The police interviewed Mr. Penny, but released him without charging him. Video of the killing set off protests and the Manhattan district attorney’s office began investigating soon afterward.

The new repub cause célèbre a La Kyle Rottenhouse. Might even result in a repub gubner and mayor next time around.

I don't know....I'm thinking he won't get convicted based on what I've read. This seems like a charge made to quiet the crowds.

Agreed. Which is sad …to have to charge someone to quiet crowds.

Or just to be sure that all angles are considered. It's a tough situation.

Yea good point. It’s definitely a tough situation. 

I disagree.  Dude should be charged.  There was no reason for that guy to have been killed. 
A trained marine should know how not to kill someone in a hold...

But he didn't intend to kill him...according to the marine. We don't know Neely's toxicology do we? Maybe that had something to do with it.

Intent wasn't there we know and so does the prosecution which is why they are charging manslaughter and not murder.

I'm on board w/ bringing charges and a full investigation. If Penny gets cleared, he gets cleared, but to just let him walk would set an awful precedent. 

This isn't the wild west... if vigilante justice becomes the norm, then God help us all. 

tempo_n_groove

Gern Blansten said:

And we still don't know all the facts. Maybe he did straight up fucking murder him. Maybe he did release when he went limp and the guy died anyway. Maybe Neely was on drugs. We don't know yet.

I don't care if anyone was on drugs, that is a cop out.  Dude engaged and a person died.  

Only thing that changes my mind is if it was self defense and either the news decided not to release that information or there wasn't any self defense.

Again, its is manslaughter, that means no intent.

I am actually for vigilante justice but this wasn't warranted.

What I do hope is it sparks more mental health experts to take care of the thousands we have roaming the streets.

Indifference

Assume everyone seen the longer video

https://twitter.com/WGthink/status/1655369029920407556?s=20

cblock4life

nicknyr15 said:

Gern Blansten said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

Gern Blansten said:

https://twitter.com/nytimes/status/1656766280018325504

Manslaughter...

Witnesses told the police that Mr. Neely had been shouting at passengers, but there has been no indication that he physically attacked anyone.
The police interviewed Mr. Penny, but released him without charging him. Video of the killing set off protests and the Manhattan district attorney’s office began investigating soon afterward.

The new repub cause célèbre a La Kyle Rottenhouse. Might even result in a repub gubner and mayor next time around.

I don't know....I'm thinking he won't get convicted based on what I've read. This seems like a charge made to quiet the crowds.

Agreed. Which is sad …to have to charge someone to quiet crowds.

Kept wanting to ask you about your updated feelings on your mayor….then he went and said something about Jordan that just made me cringe.  He had absolutely no reason to utter  “Black like me”. Whether black, blue, purple, white, orange, brown the color should have no bearing on the mayor’s comments. 

Agree the charges came quickly to silence the crowd.  

I don’t know how to feel about this yet.  We teach humans how to kill then we expect them to just go to therapy when they come back from serving our country and act normal.
We know definitely that Jordan had mental challenges.  Does Daniel suffer from PTSD?  

 Convict Daniel and you can forget anyone ever helping a stranger again. This is a no win situation.  

There’s an individual who was hollering and screaming when we went to St. Paul for PJ last time.  It seemed as if everyone who lived there was familiar with the young man.  I was frightened but he actually seemed harmless (my husband is great with these individuals with these types of challenges) after we spoke to him.  Sometimes people just need you to listen to them.  To feel like they’re being heard.  

So maybe a different approach would have had a different outcome.  I do have a question/statement on this - why didn’t anyone try to stop Daniel?  All those people- even the ones helping could have suggested he back off a bit.  And all those just watching.  This is why I’m not certain about my feelings.  I just don’t know.

tempo_n_groove

Indifference said:

Assume everyone seen the longer video

https://twitter.com/WGthink/status/1655369029920407556?s=20

"Sensitive content" and can't see it.

Merkin Baller

Cblock, I'm with you... I really don't know how I feel about the whole thing. 

Tempo, RE: vigilante justice, I don't trust the average American to start taking the law into their own hands. It's a pretty slippery slope, and with the amount of guns in this country... idk, This isn't the wild west. It's one thing to protect yourself / others in imminent danger, but that's the thing isn't it... who makes the call about when / where the imminent danger is present? 

Gern Blansten

tempo_n_groove said:

Gern Blansten said:

And we still don't know all the facts. Maybe he did straight up fucking murder him. Maybe he did release when he went limp and the guy died anyway. Maybe Neely was on drugs. We don't know yet.

I don't care if anyone was on drugs, that is a cop out.  Dude engaged and a person died.  

Only thing that changes my mind is if it was self defense and either the news decided not to release that information or there wasn't any self defense.

Again, its is manslaughter, that means no intent.

I am actually for vigilante justice but this wasn't warranted.

What I do hope is it sparks more mental health experts to take care of the thousands we have roaming the streets.

but you don't know that for a fact right?

cblock4life

Merkin Baller said:

Cblock, I'm with you... I really don't know how I feel about the whole thing. 

Tempo, RE: vigilante justice, I don't trust the average American to start taking the law into their own hands. It's a pretty slippery slope, and with the amount of guns in this country... idk, This isn't the wild west. It's one thing to protect yourself / others in imminent danger, but that's the thing isn't it... who makes the call about when / where the imminent danger is present? 

You’re right.  Sadly, had Jordan not died Daniel would now be a hero. Just like that you go from hero (serving your country) hero (saving the subway patrons) to murderer.  If I got picked for jury duty on this one I’d tell them straight up that I’d never vote either way.  

Gern Blansten

cblock4life said:

nicknyr15 said:

Gern Blansten said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

Gern Blansten said:

https://twitter.com/nytimes/status/1656766280018325504

Manslaughter...

Witnesses told the police that Mr. Neely had been shouting at passengers, but there has been no indication that he physically attacked anyone.
The police interviewed Mr. Penny, but released him without charging him. Video of the killing set off protests and the Manhattan district attorney’s office began investigating soon afterward.

The new repub cause célèbre a La Kyle Rottenhouse. Might even result in a repub gubner and mayor next time around.

I don't know....I'm thinking he won't get convicted based on what I've read. This seems like a charge made to quiet the crowds.

Agreed. Which is sad …to have to charge someone to quiet crowds.

Kept wanting to ask you about your updated feelings on your mayor….then he went and said something about Jordan that just made me cringe.  He had absolutely no reason to utter  “Black like me”. Whether black, blue, purple, white, orange, brown the color should have no bearing on the mayor’s comments. 

Agree the charges came quickly to silence the crowd.  

I don’t know how to feel about this yet.  We teach humans how to kill then we expect them to just go to therapy when they come back from serving our country and act normal.
We know definitely that Jordan had mental challenges.  Does Daniel suffer from PTSD?  

 Convict Daniel and you can forget anyone ever helping a stranger again. This is a no win situation.  

There’s an individual who was hollering and screaming when we went to St. Paul for PJ last time.  It seemed as if everyone who lived there was familiar with the young man.  I was frightened but he actually seemed harmless (my husband is great with these individuals with these types of challenges) after we spoke to him.  Sometimes people just need you to listen to them.  To feel like they’re being heard.  

So maybe a different approach would have had a different outcome.  I do have a question/statement on this - why didn’t anyone try to stop Daniel?  All those people- even the ones helping could have suggested he back off a bit.  And all those just watching.  This is why I’m not certain about my feelings.  I just don’t know.

Yeah his training is likely part of the issue. Eliminate the threat. And who defines when and how you should feel threatened?

We know Neely was ranting that he "didn't care if he got life in prison"...my question was how would I react if someone was ranting maniacally and said something like that when my wife of kids were present. What does this person mean by that? What is he getting ready to do that he feels would put him in prison for life? Fuck that. Can we expect everyone to just wait around and find out? Does he have a gun? A knife?

tempo_n_groove

Merkin Baller said:

Cblock, I'm with you... I really don't know how I feel about the whole thing. 

Tempo, RE: vigilante justice, I don't trust the average American to start taking the law into their own hands. It's a pretty slippery slope, and with the amount of guns in this country... idk, This isn't the wild west. It's one thing to protect yourself / others in imminent danger, but that's the thing isn't it... who makes the call about when / where the imminent danger is present? 

Oh I get it, I'm not encouraging vigilantism I am ok if it happens when warranted.  

If anything hopefully this will make mental health a bigger deal.

Also like I said previously if the news withheld more of that video then I'll scream about that as an outrage.

Merkin Baller

cblock4life said:

Merkin Baller said:

Cblock, I'm with you... I really don't know how I feel about the whole thing. 

Tempo, RE: vigilante justice, I don't trust the average American to start taking the law into their own hands. It's a pretty slippery slope, and with the amount of guns in this country... idk, This isn't the wild west. It's one thing to protect yourself / others in imminent danger, but that's the thing isn't it... who makes the call about when / where the imminent danger is present? 

You’re right.  Sadly, had Jordan not died Daniel would now be a hero. Just like that you go from hero (serving your country) hero (saving the subway patrons) to murderer.  If I got picked for jury duty on this one I’d tell them straight up that I’d never vote either way.  

Well said. 

Gern Blansten

tempo_n_groove said:

Indifference said:

Assume everyone seen the longer video

https://twitter.com/WGthink/status/1655369029920407556?s=20

"Sensitive content" and can't see it.

Three people were restraining Neely. So two people came to the marine's assistance

tempo_n_groove

Gern Blansten said:

tempo_n_groove said:

Indifference said:

Assume everyone seen the longer video

https://twitter.com/WGthink/status/1655369029920407556?s=20

"Sensitive content" and can't see it.

Three people were restraining Neely. So two people came to the marine's assistance

I had seen 2 people standing over the guy and grabbing at his arm.  Never saw anything that would sway me otherwise.

I'd like to see a full video if one exists of how it got to that point.  There is video of him yelling so I would guess there is other footage of how it got there?

Gern Blansten

tempo_n_groove said:

Gern Blansten said:

tempo_n_groove said:

Indifference said:

Assume everyone seen the longer video

https://twitter.com/WGthink/status/1655369029920407556?s=20

"Sensitive content" and can't see it.

Three people were restraining Neely. So two people came to the marine's assistance

I had seen 2 people standing over the guy and grabbing at his arm.  Never saw anything that would sway me otherwise.

I'd like to see a full video if one exists of how it got to that point.  There is video of him yelling so I would guess there is other footage of how it got there?

I don't think so...otherwise I'm sure we would have seen it. There might be some cell phone videos that the police have though.

cutz

Gern Blansten said:

tempo_n_groove said:

Indifference said:

Assume everyone seen the longer video

https://twitter.com/WGthink/status/1655369029920407556?s=20

"Sensitive content" and can't see it.

Three people were restraining Neely. So two people came to the marine's assistance

Were the other 2 chraged?

Gern Blansten

cutz said:

Gern Blansten said:

tempo_n_groove said:

Indifference said:

Assume everyone seen the longer video

https://twitter.com/WGthink/status/1655369029920407556?s=20

"Sensitive content" and can't see it.

Three people were restraining Neely. So two people came to the marine's assistance

Were the other 2 chraged?

No...but it looked like they were each just holding an arm/leg, etc. So they clearly felt like that was necessary and wanted to "help" the marine.

Gern Blansten

“He said, ‘I don’t care. I’ll take a bullet, I’ll go to jail’ because he would kill people on the train,” the woman said of Neely. “He said, ‘I would kill a motherf—er. I don’t care. I’ll take a bullet. I’ll go to jail.’”
The retiree said Penny did not initially engage with Neely during the wild rant until things got out of hand and he felt the urge to step in.

https://nypost.com/2023/05/12/jordan-neely-chokehold-death-witness-praying-for-daniel-penny/

tempo_n_groove

cutz said:

Gern Blansten said:

tempo_n_groove said:

Indifference said:

Assume everyone seen the longer video

https://twitter.com/WGthink/status/1655369029920407556?s=20

"Sensitive content" and can't see it.

Three people were restraining Neely. So two people came to the marine's assistance

Were the other 2 chraged?

So you have two people helping and a woman filming it looks like and the person sitting filming.

Charge them too.

Sitting idle shouldn’t be given a free pass.  They could have helped.

mickeyrat

years and years ago , across the street a young man was having a meltdown. Not sure why but a crowd had gathered around him in the front yard of house. I go out to investigate. Still not sure whats what , I instinctively got him on the ground on his stomach. Kinda sitting on his butt , knees at his shoulders with his arms spread out from him. Gave him no leverage to get up. Every time he tried , I squeezed my knees together forcing his shoulders back down. Cops eventually showed up, one grabbed one hand the other grabbed the other, I slid out behind them. Other than his frustration at being immobile and whatever was wrong to begin with the kid was fine......

Didn't require a choke hold to calm the situation. Things may have changed since my time in the military but I do not recall hand to hand combat being used for submission. It was to neutralize the threat. Now this case that may be a mitgating factor, his training simply kicked in, but that doesnt mean he should be free from consequence.

Stop bringing up dudes record as a justification for the incident. NONE OF HIS SHIT WAS KNOWN......  Typical black victim blaming bullshit.

Watched a killer interview last night on The Problem With Jon Stewart on Racism and race relations with Corey Booker. Fascinating.... Thoughtful and intelligent conversation. Find it on youtube.

josevolution

How about just walking away get out of that platform up to the street and seek another way to get to where you need to go! When I’m in the subway which by the way isn’t to often if I see demented folks I turn around and head to the streets, the marine could of done that! Unless Jordan was coming towards him to attack then I guess he has to react to protect himself.