Jordan Neely

HughFreakingDillon

what you're describing is someone applying their fear of society in their reaction to a threat as a means to justify killing someone. that's just not rational. being fearful of your surroundings doesn't justify overuse of force. we literally say that about cops all the time. 

winnipeg is the most violent city in canada (Detroit of the North). if I'm on public transport downtown at night I'm definitely on the lookout. and choose my seat on the bus accordingly. I don't know how it compares to where you are, however. I'll admit...I have no interest in visiting NYC for that reason (plus I'm not a huge fan of big cities). 

Gern Blansten

HughFreakingDillon said:

what you're describing is someone applying their fear of society in their reaction to a threat as a means to justify killing someone. that's just not rational. being fearful of your surroundings doesn't justify overuse of force. we literally say that about cops all the time. 

winnipeg is the most violent city in canada (Detroit of the North). if I'm on public transport downtown at night I'm definitely on the lookout. and choose my seat on the bus accordingly. I don't know how it compares to where you are, however. I'll admit...I have no interest in visiting NYC for that reason (plus I'm not a huge fan of big cities). 

I can just see some people reaching a breaking point. In my case a guy started yelling back at the aggressive person...nothing went further but everyone around was pretty stressed and on high alert that a major fight could break out at any time.

Public transportation is great but if they can't keep it more secure than they need to start charging more so they can hire more security. Charging a fee for use is supposed to be a deterrent to keep certain people off of the trains...but they jump the gates to get on. They know they have a captive audience in those trains and they know their methods (loudly demanding money from people) works.

mickeyrat

Gern Blansten said:

nicknyr15 said:

Gern Blansten said:

According to Penny's attorney....Neely was "aggressively threatening" Penny and other passengers. Neely had been ARRESTED 42 times on charges including unprovoked assault. 

He clearly had mental issues and that is sad. But Penny states that he didn't intend to kill him. 

It’s easy to say in hindsight, he wasn’t armed! He wasn’t dangerous! Anyone who’s ever been in a fight or a dangerous situation knows how fast things change and could get bad. I’m sorry but this is on the state. I don’t think Penny should be arrested and charged. 42 arrests and left with no help and the public to deal with. How many times does this go the other way? Where a repeatedly arrested person finally kills someone ? This time it went the other way. Am I happy about it? Hell No. it’s terrible how it ended. I really feel the reaction is more racially motivated than anything which is even sadder. The real problem here will get overshadowed by division , as usual. Like every other fucking problem in this country. Nothing gets fixed. Ever. Frustrating to say the least. 

When do we start holding agencies and judges accountable for their decisions that lead to further damage? Don’t even get me started with ACS, a whole other failure in NYC. 

Agreed...if Penny had a history of putting choke holds on subway riders then it would be different. 

I'm still not sure that we know all of the facts yet.

he has a history of hand to hand combat training that neutralizes the "enemy". that training provided by the united states marine corps.

real easy to see how without thought, that training kicked in, as designed. may not have had intent. got the same result. he should be held accountable.

Gern Blansten

mickeyrat said:

Gern Blansten said:

nicknyr15 said:

Gern Blansten said:

According to Penny's attorney....Neely was "aggressively threatening" Penny and other passengers. Neely had been ARRESTED 42 times on charges including unprovoked assault. 

He clearly had mental issues and that is sad. But Penny states that he didn't intend to kill him. 

It’s easy to say in hindsight, he wasn’t armed! He wasn’t dangerous! Anyone who’s ever been in a fight or a dangerous situation knows how fast things change and could get bad. I’m sorry but this is on the state. I don’t think Penny should be arrested and charged. 42 arrests and left with no help and the public to deal with. How many times does this go the other way? Where a repeatedly arrested person finally kills someone ? This time it went the other way. Am I happy about it? Hell No. it’s terrible how it ended. I really feel the reaction is more racially motivated than anything which is even sadder. The real problem here will get overshadowed by division , as usual. Like every other fucking problem in this country. Nothing gets fixed. Ever. Frustrating to say the least. 

When do we start holding agencies and judges accountable for their decisions that lead to further damage? Don’t even get me started with ACS, a whole other failure in NYC. 

Agreed...if Penny had a history of putting choke holds on subway riders then it would be different. 

I'm still not sure that we know all of the facts yet.

he has a history of hand to hand combat training that neutralizes the "enemy". that training provided by the united states marine corps.

real easy to see how without thought, that training kicked in, as designed. may not have had intent. got the same result. he should be held accountable.

I don't disagree that they should examine the situation and bring charges if necessary. It just seems like there must have been enough eyewitness testimony to the police that led them to believe the guy acted in self defense.

mickeyrat

Gern Blansten said:

mickeyrat said:

Gern Blansten said:

nicknyr15 said:

Gern Blansten said:

According to Penny's attorney....Neely was "aggressively threatening" Penny and other passengers. Neely had been ARRESTED 42 times on charges including unprovoked assault. 

He clearly had mental issues and that is sad. But Penny states that he didn't intend to kill him. 

It’s easy to say in hindsight, he wasn’t armed! He wasn’t dangerous! Anyone who’s ever been in a fight or a dangerous situation knows how fast things change and could get bad. I’m sorry but this is on the state. I don’t think Penny should be arrested and charged. 42 arrests and left with no help and the public to deal with. How many times does this go the other way? Where a repeatedly arrested person finally kills someone ? This time it went the other way. Am I happy about it? Hell No. it’s terrible how it ended. I really feel the reaction is more racially motivated than anything which is even sadder. The real problem here will get overshadowed by division , as usual. Like every other fucking problem in this country. Nothing gets fixed. Ever. Frustrating to say the least. 

When do we start holding agencies and judges accountable for their decisions that lead to further damage? Don’t even get me started with ACS, a whole other failure in NYC. 

Agreed...if Penny had a history of putting choke holds on subway riders then it would be different. 

I'm still not sure that we know all of the facts yet.

he has a history of hand to hand combat training that neutralizes the "enemy". that training provided by the united states marine corps.

real easy to see how without thought, that training kicked in, as designed. may not have had intent. got the same result. he should be held accountable.

I don't disagree that they should examine the situation and bring charges if necessary. It just seems like there must have been enough eyewitness testimony to the police that led them to believe the guy acted in self defense.

ranting black victim.

mace1229

HughFreakingDillon said:

how is this "an unfortunate circumstance" but George Floyd was murdered? you know if a person can't breathe if you are choking them. 

I agree with you.
The key thing is I haven't seen anyone claim he was a threat. Just a nuisance. You don't have the right to restrain someone because they are a nuisance. I don't know if the marine meant to kill him, or just shut him up. So I don't know if he would face murder or manslaughter, but I don't see hoe he gets off with nothing. 

Gern Blansten

https://www.forbes.com/sites/tylerroush/2023/05/05/what-to-know-about-jordan-neely-homeless-man-killed-on-new-york-subway/?sh=591c67b0726c

Witnesses aboard a northbound F train Monday afternoon said Neely had been acting hostile toward passengers aboard the train before he was approached by another rider, who then restrained Neely, according to the New York Times.

I guess a grand jury is meeting next week according to the link

Gern Blansten

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/jordan-neely-chokehold-death-what-we-know-so-far-rcna83102

If I'm a passenger on that train I'm probably thinking "what is this guy getting ready to do that will result in a life sentence"

Vazquez told NBC New York that Neely got on the train and “began to say a somewhat aggressive speech, saying he was hungry, he was thirsty, that he didn’t care about anything, he didn’t care about going to jail, he didn’t care that he gets a big life sentence.”
Vazquez said Neely was held in the chokehold position for about 15 minutes.
Neely was unconscious when police arrived, and he was pronounced dead at a hospital.
He died of “compression of neck (chokehold)” and the manner of death was ruled a homicide by the city's chief medical examiner’s office said.
Immediately after the incident, the 24-year-old man was taken into custody for questioning and released.

Gern Blansten

https://twitter.com/nytimes/status/1656766280018325504

Manslaughter...

Witnesses told the police that Mr. Neely had been shouting at passengers, but there has been no indication that he physically attacked anyone.
The police interviewed Mr. Penny, but released him without charging him. Video of the killing set off protests and the Manhattan district attorney’s office began investigating soon afterward.

Halifax2TheMax

Gern Blansten said:

https://twitter.com/nytimes/status/1656766280018325504

Manslaughter...

Witnesses told the police that Mr. Neely had been shouting at passengers, but there has been no indication that he physically attacked anyone.
The police interviewed Mr. Penny, but released him without charging him. Video of the killing set off protests and the Manhattan district attorney’s office began investigating soon afterward.

The new repub cause célèbre a La Kyle Rottenhouse. Might even result in a repub gubner and mayor next time around.

Gern Blansten

Halifax2TheMax said:

Gern Blansten said:

https://twitter.com/nytimes/status/1656766280018325504

Manslaughter...

Witnesses told the police that Mr. Neely had been shouting at passengers, but there has been no indication that he physically attacked anyone.
The police interviewed Mr. Penny, but released him without charging him. Video of the killing set off protests and the Manhattan district attorney’s office began investigating soon afterward.

The new repub cause célèbre a La Kyle Rottenhouse. Might even result in a repub gubner and mayor next time around.

I don't know....I'm thinking he won't get convicted based on what I've read. This seems like a charge made to quiet the crowds.

nicknyr15

Gern Blansten said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

Gern Blansten said:

https://twitter.com/nytimes/status/1656766280018325504

Manslaughter...

Witnesses told the police that Mr. Neely had been shouting at passengers, but there has been no indication that he physically attacked anyone.
The police interviewed Mr. Penny, but released him without charging him. Video of the killing set off protests and the Manhattan district attorney’s office began investigating soon afterward.

The new repub cause célèbre a La Kyle Rottenhouse. Might even result in a repub gubner and mayor next time around.

I don't know....I'm thinking he won't get convicted based on what I've read. This seems like a charge made to quiet the crowds.

Agreed. Which is sad …to have to charge someone to quiet crowds.

Gern Blansten

nicknyr15 said:

Gern Blansten said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

Gern Blansten said:

https://twitter.com/nytimes/status/1656766280018325504

Manslaughter...

Witnesses told the police that Mr. Neely had been shouting at passengers, but there has been no indication that he physically attacked anyone.
The police interviewed Mr. Penny, but released him without charging him. Video of the killing set off protests and the Manhattan district attorney’s office began investigating soon afterward.

The new repub cause célèbre a La Kyle Rottenhouse. Might even result in a repub gubner and mayor next time around.

I don't know....I'm thinking he won't get convicted based on what I've read. This seems like a charge made to quiet the crowds.

Agreed. Which is sad …to have to charge someone to quiet crowds.

Or just to be sure that all angles are considered. It's a tough situation.

Merkin Baller

Gern Blansten said:

nicknyr15 said:

Gern Blansten said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

Gern Blansten said:

https://twitter.com/nytimes/status/1656766280018325504

Manslaughter...

Witnesses told the police that Mr. Neely had been shouting at passengers, but there has been no indication that he physically attacked anyone.
The police interviewed Mr. Penny, but released him without charging him. Video of the killing set off protests and the Manhattan district attorney’s office began investigating soon afterward.

The new repub cause célèbre a La Kyle Rottenhouse. Might even result in a repub gubner and mayor next time around.

I don't know....I'm thinking he won't get convicted based on what I've read. This seems like a charge made to quiet the crowds.

Agreed. Which is sad …to have to charge someone to quiet crowds.

Or just to be sure that all angles are considered. It's a tough situation.

I'm in favor of charges being filed for this reason alone. 

nicknyr15

Gern Blansten said:

nicknyr15 said:

Gern Blansten said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

Gern Blansten said:

https://twitter.com/nytimes/status/1656766280018325504

Manslaughter...

Witnesses told the police that Mr. Neely had been shouting at passengers, but there has been no indication that he physically attacked anyone.
The police interviewed Mr. Penny, but released him without charging him. Video of the killing set off protests and the Manhattan district attorney’s office began investigating soon afterward.

The new repub cause célèbre a La Kyle Rottenhouse. Might even result in a repub gubner and mayor next time around.

I don't know....I'm thinking he won't get convicted based on what I've read. This seems like a charge made to quiet the crowds.

Agreed. Which is sad …to have to charge someone to quiet crowds.

Or just to be sure that all angles are considered. It's a tough situation.

Yea good point. It’s definitely a tough situation. 

tempo_n_groove

nicknyr15 said:

Gern Blansten said:

nicknyr15 said:

Gern Blansten said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

Gern Blansten said:

https://twitter.com/nytimes/status/1656766280018325504

Manslaughter...

Witnesses told the police that Mr. Neely had been shouting at passengers, but there has been no indication that he physically attacked anyone.
The police interviewed Mr. Penny, but released him without charging him. Video of the killing set off protests and the Manhattan district attorney’s office began investigating soon afterward.

The new repub cause célèbre a La Kyle Rottenhouse. Might even result in a repub gubner and mayor next time around.

I don't know....I'm thinking he won't get convicted based on what I've read. This seems like a charge made to quiet the crowds.

Agreed. Which is sad …to have to charge someone to quiet crowds.

Or just to be sure that all angles are considered. It's a tough situation.

Yea good point. It’s definitely a tough situation. 

I disagree.  Dude should be charged.  There was no reason for that guy to have been killed. 
A trained marine should know how not to kill someone in a hold...

Gern Blansten

tempo_n_groove said:

nicknyr15 said:

Gern Blansten said:

nicknyr15 said:

Gern Blansten said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

Gern Blansten said:

https://twitter.com/nytimes/status/1656766280018325504

Manslaughter...

Witnesses told the police that Mr. Neely had been shouting at passengers, but there has been no indication that he physically attacked anyone.
The police interviewed Mr. Penny, but released him without charging him. Video of the killing set off protests and the Manhattan district attorney’s office began investigating soon afterward.

The new repub cause célèbre a La Kyle Rottenhouse. Might even result in a repub gubner and mayor next time around.

I don't know....I'm thinking he won't get convicted based on what I've read. This seems like a charge made to quiet the crowds.

Agreed. Which is sad …to have to charge someone to quiet crowds.

Or just to be sure that all angles are considered. It's a tough situation.

Yea good point. It’s definitely a tough situation. 

I disagree.  Dude should be charged.  There was no reason for that guy to have been killed. 
A trained marine should know how not to kill someone in a hold...

But he didn't intend to kill him...according to the marine. We don't know Neely's toxicology do we? Maybe that had something to do with it.

HughFreakingDillon

that's tempo's (and my) point: he should have KNOWN how not to kill the guy. when the body goes limp, he's out. that's when you release. 

tempo_n_groove

Gern Blansten said:

tempo_n_groove said:

nicknyr15 said:

Gern Blansten said:

nicknyr15 said:

Gern Blansten said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

Gern Blansten said:

https://twitter.com/nytimes/status/1656766280018325504

Manslaughter...

Witnesses told the police that Mr. Neely had been shouting at passengers, but there has been no indication that he physically attacked anyone.
The police interviewed Mr. Penny, but released him without charging him. Video of the killing set off protests and the Manhattan district attorney’s office began investigating soon afterward.

The new repub cause célèbre a La Kyle Rottenhouse. Might even result in a repub gubner and mayor next time around.

I don't know....I'm thinking he won't get convicted based on what I've read. This seems like a charge made to quiet the crowds.

Agreed. Which is sad …to have to charge someone to quiet crowds.

Or just to be sure that all angles are considered. It's a tough situation.

Yea good point. It’s definitely a tough situation. 

I disagree.  Dude should be charged.  There was no reason for that guy to have been killed. 
A trained marine should know how not to kill someone in a hold...

But he didn't intend to kill him...according to the marine. We don't know Neely's toxicology do we? Maybe that had something to do with it.

Intent wasn't there we know and so does the prosecution which is why they are charging manslaughter and not murder.

Gern Blansten

And we still don't know all the facts. Maybe he did straight up fucking murder him. Maybe he did release when he went limp and the guy died anyway. Maybe Neely was on drugs. We don't know yet.