Jordan Neely

Gern Blansten · May 2023

https://www.cnn.com/2023/05/06/us/jordan-neely-subway-death-saturday/index.html

Odd situation. Witnesses say Neely was not threatening anyone but was being loud and aggressive. Unknown to the marine that strangled him at the time, he had a lot of legal problems and had punched a 67 year old woman in the face a few months before.

I doubt they prosecute the marine. It just seems like an unfortunate circumstance.

Unless you have some sort of authority in every train (like air marshals in planes) I'm not sure how situations like this can be prevented.

Gern Blansten · May 2023

When we were in Oakland last year there was a guy on the subway asking very loudly to anyone that would make eye contact "will you please help me buy some groceries!!!"....over and over again.

Some younger guy started telling him to shut up and got in a huge back and forth verbally with him. We got off the trains and he continued out into the common area asking the same thing very loudly.

I can see where people would get fed up with that shit. You're just trying to get home and you have to deal with crazy people day after day.

nicknyr15 · May 2023

Shitty situation all around. There seems to be no system in place to help mentally ill. This dude was arrested and let out over 40 times. When does the city step in and do something? You can’t just let the public deal with it. I have no solution but that’s not my job.

HughFreakingDillon · May 2023

how is this "an unfortunate circumstance" but George Floyd was murdered? you know if a person can't breathe if you are choking them.

Gern Blansten · May 2023

HughFreakingDillon said:

how is this "an unfortunate circumstance" but George Floyd was murdered? you know if a person can't breathe if you are choking them.

If a cop would have strangled Neely I think it would be much different.

HughFreakingDillon · May 2023

Gern Blansten said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

how is this "an unfortunate circumstance" but George Floyd was murdered? you know if a person can't breathe if you are choking them.

If a cop would have strangled Neely I think it would be much different.

why?

Gern Blansten · May 2023

HughFreakingDillon said:

Gern Blansten said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

how is this "an unfortunate circumstance" but George Floyd was murdered? you know if a person can't breathe if you are choking them.

If a cop would have strangled Neely I think it would be much different.

why?

Because they are the authority equipped to deal with the situation. The 24 year old marine felt like he had to protect himself.

nicknyr15 · May 2023

Gern Blansten said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

Gern Blansten said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

how is this "an unfortunate circumstance" but George Floyd was murdered? you know if a person can't breathe if you are choking them.

If a cop would have strangled Neely I think it would be much different.

why?

Because they are the authority equipped to deal with the situation. The 24 year old marine felt like he had to protect himself.

Himself and all the extremely nervous train passengers. Shitty situation but again, over 40 arrests then out to the public to deal with. There has to be a better way.

Halifax2TheMax · May 2023

Maybe Santeria can explain the repub plan? Oh, plan? Or budget? Sure. It’s locked up with the Obamacare replacement and will be rolled out any day now. Sure.

https://www.nyaprs.org/e-news-bulletins/2023/3/9/mental-health-would-get-a-boost-from-bidens-fy-2024-budget

tempo_n_groove · May 2023

I'm glad someone posted this.

It's not a good look. The guy was murdered. I get why the marine did it. I also know that the marine knows how to apply a chokehold without killing or putting the guy out.

He should be tried in court. He would get let off most likely by a jury but he should be accountable.

Until we take mental illness really seriously this will be common.

It being a white on black doesn't help the situation and the NY prosecutors going silent.

I also want to say how dumb the people were jumping on the track when a train was coming. One wrong move and that third rail would have lit up a bunch of people.

HughFreakingDillon · May 2023

Gern Blansten said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

Gern Blansten said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

how is this "an unfortunate circumstance" but George Floyd was murdered? you know if a person can't breathe if you are choking them.

If a cop would have strangled Neely I think it would be much different.

why?

Because they are the authority equipped to deal with the situation. The 24 year old marine felt like he had to protect himself.

I don't get how anyone can possibly come to the conclusion that this was a simple case of self defense. neely wasn't armed. he wasn't armed, according to witnesses. he was "acting erratically". that's basis for justifiable homicide now?

brianlux · May 2023

This is cut and dry to me- if you don't know how to restrain a person without killing them, you don't do it or at least help someone who does. I agree that the marine should be tried for murder.

HughFreakingDillon said:

Gern Blansten said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

Gern Blansten said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

how is this "an unfortunate circumstance" but George Floyd was murdered? you know if a person can't breathe if you are choking them.

If a cop would have strangled Neely I think it would be much different.

why?

Because they are the authority equipped to deal with the situation. The 24 year old marine felt like he had to protect himself.

I don't get how anyone can possibly come to the conclusion that this was a simple case of self defense. neely wasn't armed. he wasn't armed, according to witnesses. he was "acting erratically". that's basis for justifiable homicide now?

Exactly. In the years I worked at the bookstore, we had a few customers who acted erratically. If you work around people long enough, it's gonna happen. We never choked any of the to death.

tempo_n_groove · May 2023

HughFreakingDillon said:

Gern Blansten said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

Gern Blansten said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

how is this "an unfortunate circumstance" but George Floyd was murdered? you know if a person can't breathe if you are choking them.

If a cop would have strangled Neely I think it would be much different.

why?

Because they are the authority equipped to deal with the situation. The 24 year old marine felt like he had to protect himself.

I don't get how anyone can possibly come to the conclusion that this was a simple case of self defense. neely wasn't armed. he wasn't armed, according to witnesses. he was "acting erratically". that's basis for justifiable homicide now?

I agree with you. We have nutcases on the trains all the time. 99% of the time nothing happens so just let them yell or whatever.

Gern Blansten · May 2023

According to Penny's attorney....Neely was "aggressively threatening" Penny and other passengers. Neely had been ARRESTED 42 times on charges including unprovoked assault.

He clearly had mental issues and that is sad. But Penny states that he didn't intend to kill him.

nicknyr15 · May 2023

Gern Blansten said:

According to Penny's attorney....Neely was "aggressively threatening" Penny and other passengers. Neely had been ARRESTED 42 times on charges including unprovoked assault.

He clearly had mental issues and that is sad. But Penny states that he didn't intend to kill him.

It’s easy to say in hindsight, he wasn’t armed! He wasn’t dangerous! Anyone who’s ever been in a fight or a dangerous situation knows how fast things change and could get bad. I’m sorry but this is on the state. I don’t think Penny should be arrested and charged. 42 arrests and left with no help and the public to deal with. How many times does this go the other way? Where a repeatedly arrested person finally kills someone ? This time it went the other way. Am I happy about it? Hell No. it’s terrible how it ended. I really feel the reaction is more racially motivated than anything which is even sadder. The real problem here will get overshadowed by division , as usual. Like every other fucking problem in this country. Nothing gets fixed. Ever. Frustrating to say the least.

When do we start holding agencies and judges accountable for their decisions that lead to further damage? Don’t even get me started with ACS, a whole other failure in NYC.

Gern Blansten · May 2023

nicknyr15 said:

Gern Blansten said:

According to Penny's attorney....Neely was "aggressively threatening" Penny and other passengers. Neely had been ARRESTED 42 times on charges including unprovoked assault.

He clearly had mental issues and that is sad. But Penny states that he didn't intend to kill him.

It’s easy to say in hindsight, he wasn’t armed! He wasn’t dangerous! Anyone who’s ever been in a fight or a dangerous situation knows how fast things change and could get bad. I’m sorry but this is on the state. I don’t think Penny should be arrested and charged. 42 arrests and left with no help and the public to deal with. How many times does this go the other way? Where a repeatedly arrested person finally kills someone ? This time it went the other way. Am I happy about it? Hell No. it’s terrible how it ended. I really feel the reaction is more racially motivated than anything which is even sadder. The real problem here will get overshadowed by division , as usual. Like every other fucking problem in this country. Nothing gets fixed. Ever. Frustrating to say the least.

When do we start holding agencies and judges accountable for their decisions that lead to further damage? Don’t even get me started with ACS, a whole other failure in NYC.

Agreed...if Penny had a history of putting choke holds on subway riders then it would be different.

I'm still not sure that we know all of the facts yet.

HughFreakingDillon · May 2023

Gern Blansten said:

According to Penny's attorney....Neely was "aggressively threatening" Penny and other passengers. Neely had been ARRESTED 42 times on charges including unprovoked assault.

He clearly had mental issues and that is sad. But Penny states that he didn't intend to kill him.

did the marine know of Neely's arrest record? we don't know, but highly doubtful. so that's irrelevant. all he likely knew was this homeless guy was threatening with no visible means of doing any real damage.

this happens every hour of every day in big cities.

you can restrain someone without killing them. no, I'm not saying it's easy. especially if someone is on some mind altering drug. But I'm stunned that people are excusing this murder. intentional or not, it's murder.

Gern Blansten · May 2023

HughFreakingDillon said:

Gern Blansten said:

According to Penny's attorney....Neely was "aggressively threatening" Penny and other passengers. Neely had been ARRESTED 42 times on charges including unprovoked assault.

He clearly had mental issues and that is sad. But Penny states that he didn't intend to kill him.

did the marine know of Neely's arrest record? we don't know, but highly doubtful. so that's irrelevant. all he likely knew was this homeless guy was threatening with no visible means of doing any real damage.

this happens every hour of every day in big cities.

you can restrain someone without killing them. no, I'm not saying it's easy. especially if someone is on some mind altering drug. But I'm stunned that people are excusing this murder. intentional or not, it's murder.

Technically it's manslaughter but I only bring up his arrest record to show that, whether the marine knew or not, the guy did have a history of assaulting people. I'm just going by my own experience on the subway. We are all supposed to just sit there and wait for them to attack? The marine says he felt threatened so I'm giving him the benefit of the doubt for now.

HughFreakingDillon · May 2023

I used murder as a synonym for killing, not as what he'll be charged with.

I didn't say sit around and do nothing. "doing something" and "killing" are pretty far away from each other on the "action" spectrum.

nicknyr15 · May 2023

HughFreakingDillon said:

Gern Blansten said:

According to Penny's attorney....Neely was "aggressively threatening" Penny and other passengers. Neely had been ARRESTED 42 times on charges including unprovoked assault.

He clearly had mental issues and that is sad. But Penny states that he didn't intend to kill him.

did the marine know of Neely's arrest record? we don't know, but highly doubtful. so that's irrelevant. all he likely knew was this homeless guy was threatening with no visible means of doing any real damage.

this happens every hour of every day in big cities.

you can restrain someone without killing them. no, I'm not saying it's easy. especially if someone is on some mind altering drug. But I'm stunned that people are excusing this murder. intentional or not, it's murder.

We’re inundated with stories of unprovoked violence every single day. Random acts of violence, stray bullets, stabbings etc… all sorts of terrible things. We can’t act like that’s not in the back of everyone’s mind , especially while taking public transportation here. We don’t need to have knowledge of someone’s arrest record to feel unsafe or scared. Sure this happens a lot but the fact is 90% or more of average subway riders are scared to death to engage or try to stop a threat, rightfully so. This guy was on a subway with some one who wasn’t. Im guessing where you’re from, it’s not like this. I’m happy for you. I have to carry a knife around everywhere I go and am always on the lookout. Won’t help against a gun, but at least gives me a chance if Im forced to protect myself for more importantly, my wife. I’ll never understand how someone walks around the city with both AirPods in, completely checked out from their surroundings. I’m sure most people who were on that train car were happy someone did something in that moment because they were most likely scared. Did anyone want it to result in murder? I highly doubt it.

Gern Blansten · May 2023

HughFreakingDillon said:

I used murder as a synonym for killing, not as what he'll be charged with.

I didn't say sit around and do nothing. "doing something" and "killing" are pretty far away from each other on the "action" spectrum.

Right but his intention wasn't to kill him...it was to keep him from escalating the rage that he must have been displaying.

Again...maybe we don't have all of the facts yet. The only eyewitness description I came across was someone who walked up after the train had stopped and Neely was unconscious.

HughFreakingDillon · May 2023

what you're describing is someone applying their fear of society in their reaction to a threat as a means to justify killing someone. that's just not rational. being fearful of your surroundings doesn't justify overuse of force. we literally say that about cops all the time.

winnipeg is the most violent city in canada (Detroit of the North). if I'm on public transport downtown at night I'm definitely on the lookout. and choose my seat on the bus accordingly. I don't know how it compares to where you are, however. I'll admit...I have no interest in visiting NYC for that reason (plus I'm not a huge fan of big cities).

Gern Blansten · May 2023

HughFreakingDillon said:

what you're describing is someone applying their fear of society in their reaction to a threat as a means to justify killing someone. that's just not rational. being fearful of your surroundings doesn't justify overuse of force. we literally say that about cops all the time.

winnipeg is the most violent city in canada (Detroit of the North). if I'm on public transport downtown at night I'm definitely on the lookout. and choose my seat on the bus accordingly. I don't know how it compares to where you are, however. I'll admit...I have no interest in visiting NYC for that reason (plus I'm not a huge fan of big cities).

I can just see some people reaching a breaking point. In my case a guy started yelling back at the aggressive person...nothing went further but everyone around was pretty stressed and on high alert that a major fight could break out at any time.

Public transportation is great but if they can't keep it more secure than they need to start charging more so they can hire more security. Charging a fee for use is supposed to be a deterrent to keep certain people off of the trains...but they jump the gates to get on. They know they have a captive audience in those trains and they know their methods (loudly demanding money from people) works.

mickeyrat · May 2023

Gern Blansten said:

nicknyr15 said:

Gern Blansten said:

According to Penny's attorney....Neely was "aggressively threatening" Penny and other passengers. Neely had been ARRESTED 42 times on charges including unprovoked assault.

He clearly had mental issues and that is sad. But Penny states that he didn't intend to kill him.

It’s easy to say in hindsight, he wasn’t armed! He wasn’t dangerous! Anyone who’s ever been in a fight or a dangerous situation knows how fast things change and could get bad. I’m sorry but this is on the state. I don’t think Penny should be arrested and charged. 42 arrests and left with no help and the public to deal with. How many times does this go the other way? Where a repeatedly arrested person finally kills someone ? This time it went the other way. Am I happy about it? Hell No. it’s terrible how it ended. I really feel the reaction is more racially motivated than anything which is even sadder. The real problem here will get overshadowed by division , as usual. Like every other fucking problem in this country. Nothing gets fixed. Ever. Frustrating to say the least.

When do we start holding agencies and judges accountable for their decisions that lead to further damage? Don’t even get me started with ACS, a whole other failure in NYC.

Agreed...if Penny had a history of putting choke holds on subway riders then it would be different.

I'm still not sure that we know all of the facts yet.

he has a history of hand to hand combat training that neutralizes the "enemy". that training provided by the united states marine corps.

real easy to see how without thought, that training kicked in, as designed. may not have had intent. got the same result. he should be held accountable.

Gern Blansten · May 2023

mickeyrat said:

Gern Blansten said:

nicknyr15 said:

Gern Blansten said:

According to Penny's attorney....Neely was "aggressively threatening" Penny and other passengers. Neely had been ARRESTED 42 times on charges including unprovoked assault.

He clearly had mental issues and that is sad. But Penny states that he didn't intend to kill him.

It’s easy to say in hindsight, he wasn’t armed! He wasn’t dangerous! Anyone who’s ever been in a fight or a dangerous situation knows how fast things change and could get bad. I’m sorry but this is on the state. I don’t think Penny should be arrested and charged. 42 arrests and left with no help and the public to deal with. How many times does this go the other way? Where a repeatedly arrested person finally kills someone ? This time it went the other way. Am I happy about it? Hell No. it’s terrible how it ended. I really feel the reaction is more racially motivated than anything which is even sadder. The real problem here will get overshadowed by division , as usual. Like every other fucking problem in this country. Nothing gets fixed. Ever. Frustrating to say the least.

When do we start holding agencies and judges accountable for their decisions that lead to further damage? Don’t even get me started with ACS, a whole other failure in NYC.

Agreed...if Penny had a history of putting choke holds on subway riders then it would be different.

I'm still not sure that we know all of the facts yet.

he has a history of hand to hand combat training that neutralizes the "enemy". that training provided by the united states marine corps.

real easy to see how without thought, that training kicked in, as designed. may not have had intent. got the same result. he should be held accountable.

I don't disagree that they should examine the situation and bring charges if necessary. It just seems like there must have been enough eyewitness testimony to the police that led them to believe the guy acted in self defense.

mickeyrat · May 2023

Gern Blansten said:

mickeyrat said:

Gern Blansten said:

nicknyr15 said:

Gern Blansten said:

According to Penny's attorney....Neely was "aggressively threatening" Penny and other passengers. Neely had been ARRESTED 42 times on charges including unprovoked assault.

He clearly had mental issues and that is sad. But Penny states that he didn't intend to kill him.

It’s easy to say in hindsight, he wasn’t armed! He wasn’t dangerous! Anyone who’s ever been in a fight or a dangerous situation knows how fast things change and could get bad. I’m sorry but this is on the state. I don’t think Penny should be arrested and charged. 42 arrests and left with no help and the public to deal with. How many times does this go the other way? Where a repeatedly arrested person finally kills someone ? This time it went the other way. Am I happy about it? Hell No. it’s terrible how it ended. I really feel the reaction is more racially motivated than anything which is even sadder. The real problem here will get overshadowed by division , as usual. Like every other fucking problem in this country. Nothing gets fixed. Ever. Frustrating to say the least.

When do we start holding agencies and judges accountable for their decisions that lead to further damage? Don’t even get me started with ACS, a whole other failure in NYC.

Agreed...if Penny had a history of putting choke holds on subway riders then it would be different.

I'm still not sure that we know all of the facts yet.

he has a history of hand to hand combat training that neutralizes the "enemy". that training provided by the united states marine corps.

real easy to see how without thought, that training kicked in, as designed. may not have had intent. got the same result. he should be held accountable.

I don't disagree that they should examine the situation and bring charges if necessary. It just seems like there must have been enough eyewitness testimony to the police that led them to believe the guy acted in self defense.

ranting black victim.

mace1229 · May 2023

HughFreakingDillon said:

how is this "an unfortunate circumstance" but George Floyd was murdered? you know if a person can't breathe if you are choking them.

I agree with you.
The key thing is I haven't seen anyone claim he was a threat. Just a nuisance. You don't have the right to restrain someone because they are a nuisance. I don't know if the marine meant to kill him, or just shut him up. So I don't know if he would face murder or manslaughter, but I don't see hoe he gets off with nothing.

Gern Blansten · May 2023

https://www.forbes.com/sites/tylerroush/2023/05/05/what-to-know-about-jordan-neely-homeless-man-killed-on-new-york-subway/?sh=591c67b0726c

Witnesses aboard a northbound F train Monday afternoon said Neely had been acting hostile toward passengers aboard the train before he was approached by another rider, who then restrained Neely, according to the New York Times.

I guess a grand jury is meeting next week according to the link

Gern Blansten · May 2023

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/jordan-neely-chokehold-death-what-we-know-so-far-rcna83102

If I'm a passenger on that train I'm probably thinking "what is this guy getting ready to do that will result in a life sentence"

Vazquez told NBC New York that Neely got on the train and “began to say a somewhat aggressive speech, saying he was hungry, he was thirsty, that he didn’t care about anything, he didn’t care about going to jail, he didn’t care that he gets a big life sentence.”
Vazquez said Neely was held in the chokehold position for about 15 minutes.
Neely was unconscious when police arrived, and he was pronounced dead at a hospital.
He died of “compression of neck (chokehold)” and the manner of death was ruled a homicide by the city's chief medical examiner’s office said.
Immediately after the incident, the 24-year-old man was taken into custody for questioning and released.

Gern Blansten · May 2023

https://twitter.com/nytimes/status/1656766280018325504

Manslaughter...

Witnesses told the police that Mr. Neely had been shouting at passengers, but there has been no indication that he physically attacked anyone.
The police interviewed Mr. Penny, but released him without charging him. Video of the killing set off protests and the Manhattan district attorney’s office began investigating soon afterward.

Halifax2TheMax · May 2023

Gern Blansten said:

https://twitter.com/nytimes/status/1656766280018325504

Manslaughter...

Witnesses told the police that Mr. Neely had been shouting at passengers, but there has been no indication that he physically attacked anyone.
The police interviewed Mr. Penny, but released him without charging him. Video of the killing set off protests and the Manhattan district attorney’s office began investigating soon afterward.

The new repub cause célèbre a La Kyle Rottenhouse. Might even result in a repub gubner and mayor next time around.

Jordan Neely

Comments