Jury recommends life in prison without parole for Parkland school shooter

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  • brianlux
    brianlux Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 43,663
    cincybearcat said:
    brianlux said:
    Gern Blansten said:
    brianlux said:
    Gern Blansten said:
    brianlux said:
    Yeah, that's a tough one.  I oppose the death sentence but, damn...
    I have to say that your comment confuses me. If you oppose a death sentence then you kind of got what you believe in.

    I did but I didn't.  My preference would be for people who murder children to be whisked off by aliens, or commit suicide or die of a heart attach or something.  I hate the idea of putting people to death and I hate the idea of murderers of children being allowed to live at the expense of tax payers.  It's a no-win situation as far as I'm concerned. 
    HughFreakingDillon said:
    Gern Blansten said:
    brianlux said:
    Yeah, that's a tough one.  I oppose the death sentence but, damn...
    I have to say that your comment confuses me. If you oppose a death sentence then you kind of got what you believe in.
    maybe he thinks the guy doesn't deserve to live even though he opposes the DP. 

    ^^^This.

    Ok so you do support the death penalty...just one that is guided by medical ailments rather than the state. To me there is no difference although I do want the DP only given to those that admit guilt or are proven to be guilty without question.

    It will be hard to find a 100% agreement on a jury though. It sounds like it used to be majority rule and now it has to be unanimous?


    Why did you misquote me? 

    It’s weird, it like some people don’t think you should ever question your own beliefs or even talk openly about things that make sticking to your beliefs hard.  

    Brian it was very simple to understand. You are against the death penalty AND sickened about what that person did and wonder if jail is enough. And you could have felt that way for a singular moment and you posted. It’s really not that hard, people around here seem to just want to pick fights all the time anymore.

    Thanks you for getting it, Cincy!
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  • HughFreakingDillon
    HughFreakingDillon Winnipeg Posts: 39,473
    Gern Blansten said:
    brianlux said:
    Gern Blansten said:
    brianlux said:
    Yeah, that's a tough one.  I oppose the death sentence but, damn...
    I have to say that your comment confuses me. If you oppose a death sentence then you kind of got what you believe in.

    I did but I didn't.  My preference would be for people who murder children to be whisked off by aliens, or commit suicide or die of a heart attach or something.  I hate the idea of putting people to death and I hate the idea of murderers of children being allowed to live at the expense of tax payers.  It's a no-win situation as far as I'm concerned. 
    HughFreakingDillon said:
    Gern Blansten said:
    brianlux said:
    Yeah, that's a tough one.  I oppose the death sentence but, damn...
    I have to say that your comment confuses me. If you oppose a death sentence then you kind of got what you believe in.
    maybe he thinks the guy doesn't deserve to live even though he opposes the DP. 

    ^^^This.

    Ok so you do support the death penalty...just one that is guided by medical ailments rather than the state. To me there is no difference although I do want the DP only given to those that admit guilt or are proven to be guilty without question.

    It will be hard to find a 100% agreement on a jury though. It sounds like it used to be majority rule and now it has to be unanimous?


    come on. 
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  • OnWis97
    OnWis97 St. Paul, MN Posts: 5,610
    cincybearcat said:
    I’d prefer he no longer be breathing. It’s things like this that still have me ok with the death penalty in obvious cases.
    I'm not quite sure how "obvious" would be defined here. I feel there are two things you may mean:
    1. Obviously he did it. There's no gray here. This concerns me because I've seen it argued that maybe we can have the death penalty for someone who's crime is on camera...but this is the admission of doubt for any that's "not obvious." If I was a talented defense attorney with no conscious I'd be salivating to use that to get any "non-obvious" person off.
    2. Obviously he's a bad man. A lot of convicted murders were convicted of killing their abusers (particularly in women's prisons). They are not necessarily bad. Mowing down a bunch of kids? Yeah, they are. I see this argument a bit more. That said...

    I kind think it's hard to really say "I don't generally like the death penalty but for some people, fuck it; fry them." I kinda think we need to go all they way on not having the death penalty. I have some history of supporting the death penalty because, unlike most of my fellow-liberals, I actually think it's an appropriate action for some people. That said, you can't un-kill someone and the flaws in the justice system that enable a surprising number of innocent people (at least 4% in prison are innocent of the crime of which they've been convicted )to be found guilty make it too possible to execute an innocent person.

    In short, I do have that sense of retribution that some do, but I think in the bigger picture, it's not worth it.

    (Then there's that it's not a deterrant and it's actually more expensive to kill someone than imprison them for decades)

    I'd also add that I know it's intentionally vague, but how could killing someone not be considered "cruel and unusual punishment?
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  • brianlux
    brianlux Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 43,663
    OnWis97 said:
    cincybearcat said:
    I’d prefer he no longer be breathing. It’s things like this that still have me ok with the death penalty in obvious cases.
    I'm not quite sure how "obvious" would be defined here. I feel there are two things you may mean:
    1. Obviously he did it. There's no gray here. This concerns me because I've seen it argued that maybe we can have the death penalty for someone who's crime is on camera...but this is the admission of doubt for any that's "not obvious." If I was a talented defense attorney with no conscious I'd be salivating to use that to get any "non-obvious" person off.
    2. Obviously he's a bad man. A lot of convicted murders were convicted of killing their abusers (particularly in women's prisons). They are not necessarily bad. Mowing down a bunch of kids? Yeah, they are. I see this argument a bit more. That said...

    I kind think it's hard to really say "I don't generally like the death penalty but for some people, fuck it; fry them." I kinda think we need to go all they way on not having the death penalty. I have some history of supporting the death penalty because, unlike most of my fellow-liberals, I actually think it's an appropriate action for some people. That said, you can't un-kill someone and the flaws in the justice system that enable a surprising number of innocent people (at least 4% in prison are innocent of the crime of which they've been convicted )to be found guilty make it too possible to execute an innocent person.

    In short, I do have that sense of retribution that some do, but I think in the bigger picture, it's not worth it.

    (Then there's that it's not a deterrant and it's actually more expensive to kill someone than imprison them for decades)

    I'd also add that I know it's intentionally vague, but how could killing someone not be considered "cruel and unusual punishment?

    I think if I were against the death penalty but favored it being used in certain cases, I would be quiet about those feelings, but also would not feel or express sorrow when it was used.  The feeling would be sometime akin to being solemn.

    And what I just said lack enough commitment and exactitude such that no one needs to quote me and say I said something I did not say.
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  • Spiritual_Chaos
    Spiritual_Chaos Posts: 31,472

    "Mostly I think that people react sensitively because they know you’ve got a point"
  • mickeyrat
    mickeyrat Posts: 44,430
    capital murder is an ordinary crime?
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  • Spiritual_Chaos
    Spiritual_Chaos Posts: 31,472
    mickeyrat said:
    capital murder is an ordinary crime?
    What are you trying to say
    "Mostly I think that people react sensitively because they know you’ve got a point"
  • mace1229
    mace1229 Posts: 9,830
    He’s asking about the graph you posted. I had the same crime. He is capital punishment reserves for ordinary crimes i America? What ordinary crime gets the death sentence here?
  • Spiritual_Chaos
    Spiritual_Chaos Posts: 31,472
    mace1229 said:
    He’s asking about the graph you posted. I had the same crime. He is capital punishment reserves for ordinary crimes i America? What ordinary crime gets the death sentence here?
    Murder?

    Or what is so hard to understand? You should have a way better understanding of your system than I do.
    "Mostly I think that people react sensitively because they know you’ve got a point"
  • tempo_n_groove
    tempo_n_groove Posts: 41,395
    Spiritual_Chaos said:
    mace1229 said:
    He’s asking about the graph you posted. I had the same crime. He is capital punishment reserves for ordinary crimes i America? What ordinary crime gets the death sentence here?
    Murder?

    Or what is so hard to understand? You should have a way better understanding of your system than I do.
    Murder is not "an ordinary crime".  That is what doesn't make sense.  What out of touch sociopath created this graph?
  • nicknyr15
    nicknyr15 Posts: 9,226
    tempo_n_groove said:
    Spiritual_Chaos said:
    mace1229 said:
    He’s asking about the graph you posted. I had the same crime. He is capital punishment reserves for ordinary crimes i America? What ordinary crime gets the death sentence here?
    Murder?

    Or what is so hard to understand? You should have a way better understanding of your system than I do.
    Murder is not "an ordinary crime".  That is what doesn't make sense.  What out of touch sociopath created this graph?
    Lol. For real 
  • mickeyrat
    mickeyrat Posts: 44,430
    Spiritual_Chaos said:
    mickeyrat said:
    capital murder is an ordinary crime?
    What are you trying to say

    what does the legend state dark red means? hmm?
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    Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
    you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
    memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
    another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
  • brianlux
    brianlux Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 43,663
    I was wondering the same thing about "ordinary crimes" being related to capitol punishment.  Amnesty International should know better than to publish something so poorly constructed. 
    But this touches on a far-reaching problem- the inability to form a logical and sensible argument. No wonder society is becoming so unhinged.  Ugh...
    "It's a sad and beautiful world"
    -Roberto Benigni

  • mace1229
    mace1229 Posts: 9,830
    tempo_n_groove said:
    Spiritual_Chaos said:
    mace1229 said:
    He’s asking about the graph you posted. I had the same crime. He is capital punishment reserves for ordinary crimes i America? What ordinary crime gets the death sentence here?
    Murder?

    Or what is so hard to understand? You should have a way better understanding of your system than I do.
    Murder is not "an ordinary crime".  That is what doesn't make sense.  What out of touch sociopath created this graph?
    Exactly this. If I wasn't living here, I'd think you could get the death sentence for stealing bread. That is an ordinary crime. First degree murder is not. 
  • oftenreading
    oftenreading Victoria, BC Posts: 12,856
    mace1229 said:
    tempo_n_groove said:
    Spiritual_Chaos said:
    mace1229 said:
    He’s asking about the graph you posted. I had the same crime. He is capital punishment reserves for ordinary crimes i America? What ordinary crime gets the death sentence here?
    Murder?

    Or what is so hard to understand? You should have a way better understanding of your system than I do.
    Murder is not "an ordinary crime".  That is what doesn't make sense.  What out of touch sociopath created this graph?
    Exactly this. If I wasn't living here, I'd think you could get the death sentence for stealing bread. That is an ordinary crime. First degree murder is not. 
    The graphic did define the extraordinary crimes as terrorism and military crimes 
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  • OnWis97
    OnWis97 St. Paul, MN Posts: 5,610
    edited October 2022
    Spiritual_Chaos said:

    That's a weird graphic, particularly since some countries might actually execute for actual ordinary crimes like, vandalizing street signs or something (hopefully not, but who knows?)

    I'd need a decent list of what these "exceptional crimes" are as well as "ordinary crimes."

    That said, the US isn't in the best of company here. Add to that that we probably imprison a  higher proportion of our population than anyone, and "soft on crime" doesn't really seem to be the problem people make it out to be.
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  • tempo_n_groove
    tempo_n_groove Posts: 41,395
    oftenreading said:
    mace1229 said:
    tempo_n_groove said:
    Spiritual_Chaos said:
    mace1229 said:
    He’s asking about the graph you posted. I had the same crime. He is capital punishment reserves for ordinary crimes i America? What ordinary crime gets the death sentence here?
    Murder?

    Or what is so hard to understand? You should have a way better understanding of your system than I do.
    Murder is not "an ordinary crime".  That is what doesn't make sense.  What out of touch sociopath created this graph?
    Exactly this. If I wasn't living here, I'd think you could get the death sentence for stealing bread. That is an ordinary crime. First degree murder is not. 
    The graphic did define the extraordinary crimes as terrorism and military crimes 
    A military crime to me is treason, not murder though.
  • Halifax2TheMax
    Halifax2TheMax Posts: 42,235
    Murder is a very “ordinary” crime in ‘Murica. If not, why the degrees? If not, why the inability to reasonably restrict firearms? Oh, silly me, 2A. Why sentencing disparities and fancy definitions, like “crime of passion,” “stood their ground,” or “self defence?” Why “accidental” or “with a car, drunk,” is different than “shot them while they slept?” Because murder in ‘Murica is ordinary. Pro-life my ass.
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  • Halifax2TheMax
    Halifax2TheMax Posts: 42,235
    Hell, there is a whole entertainment industry built upon the real life murders of people in ‘Murica and we seem to celebrate the celebrity of it. Dahmer anyone? Yea, pretty ordinary.
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  • tempo_n_groove
    tempo_n_groove Posts: 41,395
    Halifax2TheMax said:
    Murder is a very “ordinary” crime in ‘Murica. If not, why the degrees? If not, why the inability to reasonably restrict firearms? Oh, silly me, 2A. Why sentencing disparities and fancy definitions, like “crime of passion,” “stood their ground,” or “self defence?” Why “accidental” or “with a car, drunk,” is different than “shot them while they slept?” Because murder in ‘Murica is ordinary. Pro-life my ass.
    Firearms are restricted... Not to the degree you'd like but they are.

    We are also fascinated by the macabre, hence the new found interest in Dahmer.  We haven't had, thank goodness, someone like Dahmer in 30 years.


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