Why do people still cling to Dave Abbruzzese as being the "best" drummer"

1ThoughtKnown

Seemingly always lost in these Dave A vs. the rest of the drummers BS  are two facts:

1) The drummer on the original Momma Son demos was Matt Cameron. 

Note: 12 instrumentals were hammered out, with Chris Freil filling in for MC when he was unavailable. 

2) Dave Krusen was the drummer on Ten. 

There always seems to be a certain amount of revisionist history with the Dave A fan club regarding all of this. He actually only got the job because Chamberlain wanted a gig on a late night talk show. Chamberlain knew him and recommended him to the guys in PJ.
He and Ed didn’t get along… wonder why. I mean the guy was a gun toter from Texas… seems like a great fit. 

Merkin Baller

Stove said:

KV4053 said:

Cymbals.

You really can't go wrong with CYMBALS!

Dave A thought the same thing. 

TinaE

mpedone said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

Van Halen or Van Hagar?

Pearl Jambruzzesse or Pearl Jack or Pearl Jameron?

Pearl Jameron. It's just the best sounding of the three.

(Pearl Jack sounds like Eddie's pirate name...)

LOL

Spiritual_Chaos

1ThoughtKnown said:

 I mean the guy was a gun toter from Texas… seems like a great fit. 

According to him, he wasn't a gun toter though. Right? He has talked about the guns he owned were like a small caliber hunting rifle or something. NOT THAT ANYONE WITH A BRAIN SHOULDN'T BE ANYTHING OTHER THAN VEGAN - but, I seem to remember the gossipy Gloried G- story about him being some texan stereotypical Kid Rockian redneck like you and other have described him being false. Or have I dreamt this...

But please give some info on this specific Texan that you say he is/was?

Cropduster-80

Spiritual_Chaos said:

1ThoughtKnown said:

 I mean the guy was a gun toter from Texas… seems like a great fit. 

According to him, he wasn't a gun toter though. Right? He has talked about the guns he owned were like a small caliber hunting rifle or something. NOT THAT ANYONE WITH A BRAIN SHOULDN'T BE ANYTHING OTHER THAN VEGAN - but, I seem to remember the gossipy Gloried G- story about him being some texan stereotypical Kid Rockian redneck like you and other have described him being false. Or have I dreamt this...

But please give some info on this specific Texan that you say he is/was?

All we know for sure is his response more than two decades later to an issue that is now much more divisive than it was even then .

not sure we will ever know for sure as revisionist history is in his best interest. I appreciated him addressing it for sure, how much is totally accurate im not sure 

mcgruff10

How can Dave A be their “best” drummer if he only participated in only 3 out of 32 years of the bands career?  I mean we are talking about ten percent of their history is with Dave.   

Merkin Baller

mcgruff10 said:

How can Dave A be their “best” drummer if he only participated in only 3 out of 32 years of the bands career?  I mean we are talking about ten percent of their history is with Dave.   

I've heard people reference his "look" as being one of the reasons why he was their best drummer. 

DewieCox

2-feign-reluctance said:

i am a target said:

Stove said:

Just let it go!
     Now keep in mind that...I didn't see PJ in their heyday. So I don't have that nostalgia, like some.  And don't get me wrong he was useful for the albums he was one...And here's my thing. Dave would have not have survived past Vitalogy. He was the right drummer at the right time. Just as Jack Irons was the right drummer for No Code and Yield. I cannot imagine anyone else but Jack playing on those because he added soooo much. Can you imagine Dave playing Given to Fly? Wishlist? Dear god no. It's much in the same way Matt Cam has been the quintessential to keep the bands flow live (he is the machine after all) from first filling in plus his contributions as a songwriter. Lastly, controversial opinion.....sorry not sorry, Dave hit's too loud and added too much flare to ever little part of the songs. He wanted Pearl Jam to be a hard rock band and they are so much more. Aaaannnddd argure with me!

Because Matt Cameron is too straight ahead. He's a fantastic drummer and there are things he does very well, but groove isn't one of them. I've always found him to be too mechanical for Pearl Jam. I do love the songs he writes, though.

I love Dave's drumming but I think without question the best drummer they ever had was Jack Irons.

and now Matt Cameron doesn't groove? 

He absolutely grooves. It’s undeniable. You wanna say he’s overly tight/rigid for some of their material, I think thats been a fair assessment in the past.

Cropduster-80

mcgruff10 said:

How can Dave A be their “best” drummer if he only participated in only 3 out of 32 years of the bands career?  I mean we are talking about ten percent of their history is with Dave.   

He is if vs and vitalogy are your favourite albums. I totally get that.

for me they are way way down the list. Just above LB/Gigaton so it would be hard for me to say he is. 

I think it’s a matter of preference as you can’t reasonably say any of them aren’t fantastic drummers.  Best/favourite doesn’t have to mean there is a worse/less than 

Zod

I wouldn't say cling, but I do feel bad for him from time to time.

He was the active drummer in the band when most of us got to PJ and drummed on some of their best and most influential albums.   Then, while having one of the best drumming gigs (drumming for one of the biggest rock bands during their hey dey) got canned.

Then over the years his contributions get swept under the rug, the RRHOF snubbed him.  Even though they've inducted band members form other bands under similar situations.

The challenge is PJ has had amazing drummers, so he's among a league of legendary drummers the band has had.   Every time PJ swapped drummers, their sound went in a different direction.

That's my thoughts.   Not that you can't let the guy go, but moreso his contributions to the legacy of the band get swept under rug, because he got fired.

dankind

Stove said:

Spiritual_Chaos said:

Stove said:

Just let it go!
     Now keep in mind that...I didn't see PJ in their heyday. So I don't have that nostalgia, like some.  And don't get me wrong he was useful for the albums he was one...And here's my thing. Dave would have not have survived past Vitalogy. He was the right drummer at the right time. Just as Jack Irons was the right drummer for No Code and Yield. I cannot imagine anyone else but Jack playing on those because he added soooo much. Can you imagine Dave playing Given to Fly? Wishlist? Dear god no. It's much in the same way Matt Cam has been the quintessential to keep the bands flow live (he is the machine after all) from first filling in plus his contributions as a songwriter. Lastly, controversial opinion.....sorry not sorry, Dave hit's too loud and added too much flare to ever little part of the songs. He wanted Pearl Jam to be a hard rock band and they are so much more. Aaaannnddd argure with me!

You argument is weirdly fatalistic. Like time is set in stone, and Wishlist had to be written and played, and played just like it was recorded in some sole timeline that is the only one that could have existed. Very weird way to view time. 

If Dave A was around. No Code would have been a different album. The timeline would have been completely different, and the butterfly effect could have made that grammy-winning, influential and record breaking album replacing No Code cause James Cameron to skip making Avatar and instead working on a real and amazing Terminator 3. And give us world peace.

It's more in some people hem and haw about Dave was the best drummer and should still be in the band. My point is he wouldn't have survived the evolution on the band. Not by a long shot. PJ became so nuanced with softer songs. The closest I can think of Dave doing a soft song is Indifference.

Um, the dude wrote "Angel."  

Merkin Baller

Zod said:

I wouldn't say cling, but I do feel bad for him from time to time.

He was the active drummer in the band when most of us got to PJ and drummed on some of their best and most influential albums.   Then, while having one of the best drumming gigs (drumming for one of the biggest rock bands during their hey dey) got canned.

Then over the years his contributions get swept under the rug, the RRHOF snubbed him.  Even though they've inducted band members form other bands under similar situations.

The challenge is PJ has had amazing drummers, so he's among a league of legendary drummers the band has had.   Every time PJ swapped drummers, their sound went in a different direction.

That's my thoughts.   Not that you can't let the guy go, but moreso his contributions to the legacy of the band get swept under rug, because he got fired.

I think his contribution is blown out of proportion based on him being in the right place at the right time.

It's safe to say VS and Vitalogy get made with or without him. Would they have sounded differently? Of course, but they would have charged ahead with any drummer they hired after the success of Ten. If Dave A was the single biggest creative force behind those 2 albums, that's news to me. Sure, he had some songwriting credits on both albums, but not THAT many.

Any speculation on how VS or Vitalogy would have sounded with another drummer is just that... speculation; but based on how well they've done with every drummer that's come along, it's not a stretch to suggest they would have been just fine with someone else.

Stove

Merkin Baller said:

mcgruff10 said:

How can Dave A be their “best” drummer if he only participated in only 3 out of 32 years of the bands career?  I mean we are talking about ten percent of their history is with Dave.   

I've heard people reference his "look" as being one of the reasons why he was their best drummer. 

....wow...just wow. Let it go old fans. Pearl Jam has released albums since Vs. 

Stove

dankind said:

Stove said:

Spiritual_Chaos said:

Stove said:

Just let it go!
     Now keep in mind that...I didn't see PJ in their heyday. So I don't have that nostalgia, like some.  And don't get me wrong he was useful for the albums he was one...And here's my thing. Dave would have not have survived past Vitalogy. He was the right drummer at the right time. Just as Jack Irons was the right drummer for No Code and Yield. I cannot imagine anyone else but Jack playing on those because he added soooo much. Can you imagine Dave playing Given to Fly? Wishlist? Dear god no. It's much in the same way Matt Cam has been the quintessential to keep the bands flow live (he is the machine after all) from first filling in plus his contributions as a songwriter. Lastly, controversial opinion.....sorry not sorry, Dave hit's too loud and added too much flare to ever little part of the songs. He wanted Pearl Jam to be a hard rock band and they are so much more. Aaaannnddd argure with me!

You argument is weirdly fatalistic. Like time is set in stone, and Wishlist had to be written and played, and played just like it was recorded in some sole timeline that is the only one that could have existed. Very weird way to view time. 

If Dave A was around. No Code would have been a different album. The timeline would have been completely different, and the butterfly effect could have made that grammy-winning, influential and record breaking album replacing No Code cause James Cameron to skip making Avatar and instead working on a real and amazing Terminator 3. And give us world peace.

It's more in some people hem and haw about Dave was the best drummer and should still be in the band. My point is he wouldn't have survived the evolution on the band. Not by a long shot. PJ became so nuanced with softer songs. The closest I can think of Dave doing a soft song is Indifference.

Um, the dude wrote "Angel."  

Oh yes..Angel...a staple of their set. 

Cropduster-80

Stove said:

dankind said:

Stove said:

Spiritual_Chaos said:

Stove said:

Just let it go!
     Now keep in mind that...I didn't see PJ in their heyday. So I don't have that nostalgia, like some.  And don't get me wrong he was useful for the albums he was one...And here's my thing. Dave would have not have survived past Vitalogy. He was the right drummer at the right time. Just as Jack Irons was the right drummer for No Code and Yield. I cannot imagine anyone else but Jack playing on those because he added soooo much. Can you imagine Dave playing Given to Fly? Wishlist? Dear god no. It's much in the same way Matt Cam has been the quintessential to keep the bands flow live (he is the machine after all) from first filling in plus his contributions as a songwriter. Lastly, controversial opinion.....sorry not sorry, Dave hit's too loud and added too much flare to ever little part of the songs. He wanted Pearl Jam to be a hard rock band and they are so much more. Aaaannnddd argure with me!

You argument is weirdly fatalistic. Like time is set in stone, and Wishlist had to be written and played, and played just like it was recorded in some sole timeline that is the only one that could have existed. Very weird way to view time. 

If Dave A was around. No Code would have been a different album. The timeline would have been completely different, and the butterfly effect could have made that grammy-winning, influential and record breaking album replacing No Code cause James Cameron to skip making Avatar and instead working on a real and amazing Terminator 3. And give us world peace.

It's more in some people hem and haw about Dave was the best drummer and should still be in the band. My point is he wouldn't have survived the evolution on the band. Not by a long shot. PJ became so nuanced with softer songs. The closest I can think of Dave doing a soft song is Indifference.

Um, the dude wrote "Angel."  

Oh yes..Angel...a staple of their set. 

Would that count as a cover then if Dave wrote it?
maybe they should close with that and piss everyone off 

everyone seems to count mother love bone stuff as covers and some of those people are still in the band (who wrote the music at least )

HughFreakingDillon

MLB is a cover. different band. Playing a song a former member of PJ wrote for PJ is not a cover. 

Cropduster-80

HughFreakingDillon said:

MLB is a cover. different band. Playing a song a former member of PJ wrote for PJ is not a cover. 

It is only on that one 10c single right?

it it attributed to the band or Dave? I have no idea who is even on the credits or when he wrote it.

I think I’ve heard it once on a boot or something.  Probably the only song I can’t even remember how it goes off the top of my head 

droptheleash9

Sometimes I think Dave A. has like 15 burner accounts on here and uses those to proliferate a fake obsession with him. It’s the only way that I could logically explain why people are so focused on a person who was only with the band for a quick cup of coffee, brought next to nothing to the table from a song-writing perspective, and has taken stances on issues that run counter to those that the band has been very vocal about over the years. I have nothing against the guy personally but it always struck me as odd that people went out of their way to defend him or push for him to be included in things the band does.

Spiritual_Chaos

mcgruff10 said:

How can Dave A be their “best” drummer if he only participated in only 3 out of 32 years of the bands career?  I mean we are talking about ten percent of their history is with Dave.   

How can Sean Connery be the "best" Bond if he only participated in only 9 out of 59 years of the series career? I mean, we are talking about fifteen percent of the history is with Sean.

JimmyV

Guns and butter and Dave A.