Has the world (as we know it) ended?

Cropduster-80

static111 said:

Cropduster-80 said:

tempo_n_groove said:

brianlux said:

tempo_n_groove said:

brianlux said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

Cropduster-80 said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

jhager79 said:

dankind said:

tempo_n_groove said:

jhager79 said:

mace1229 said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

mace1229 said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

two parents with two kids is a ratio of 1:1. we'd probably be better off to lessen our population, but currently, I've read, it's still sustainable at the current level (the amount of food american throws out could feed the planet, for example). it's just not sustainable at the current rate of population growth. 

I know we are wasteful with food, but no way can the food we throw out feed the planet. We’re only 1/20th of the planet. We don’t throw out enough to feed 20 times our population. I’d believe we throw out enough to feed all the homeless and those without here, but not the world.
I agree with the 1:1 ratio. Problem is I don’t think we could enforce anything like that. I remember growing up as a kid and all the negative talk towards China for doing it. It wouldn’t fly here until it was already too late.

correct, it was an exaggeration and I should have qualified it as such. the real number is just as disturbing: 

According to the U.N. Environment Programme, industrialized countries in North America, Europe and Asia collectively waste 222 million tons of food each year. In contrast, countries in sub-Saharan Africa produce 230 million tons of food each year. That means sub-Saharan Africa’s food output is practically equal to the amount of food wasted by the world’s richest countries. 

source: https://www.wfpusa.org/articles/8-facts-to-know-about-food-waste-and-hunger/#:~:text=3) 30-40% of,food is damaged or spoiled

That number actually isn’t surprising to me. NA, Europe and Asia is the majority of the world. I’m not surprised the food we all collectively waste could feed sub-Saharan Africa.

I work in a grocery store and the amount of food waste through pure laziness is staggering. The amount thrown out from the store I work at alone in one week could easily feed 1000 people a week.

Sheriff Joe Arpajo would take that food and feed the inmates to save the state money.

Growing up on a farm in Florida, we always got truckloads of expired Winn Dixie or Piggly Wiggly produce for our livestock, mainly pigs. That's not to say that the family didn't also help ourselves to whatever still looked good enough to eat, but we couldn't let them know that we might eat it; it was animal-grade at that point or something, I guess.

The folks using our farm in Vermont have a similar deal with the Shaw's up there, I think.

We have a similar agreement with local farmers. Most of the products I'm referring to unfortunately aren't past code, but not visually appealing or slightly marked. Bruised apples, spotted cauliflower, ripped exterior packaging etc. All perfectly fine food thrown away because of laziness. For instance last month we had 80 cases of 8 strawberries thrown away because of one or two berries had sweaters instead of removing the off berries they all got thrown down the compactor. If the average person only knew.

I see this on a micro level all the time, with friends that have the money and are just careless with what's in their fridge or in their pantry and don't care. We were staying with friends in vancouver, for example, and the wife just comes home with loaves of bread every day, throws them on the pile on the counter. We were there 5 days. I threw out about 3 loaves a day just looking for something that wasn't completely moldy. Same situation in their fridge. it's disgusting. 

If we can find a solution to the amount of food waste 3 small kids generate I’m all ears.

kids are great, but I’ve never wasted so much food in my life.  At least since I was a kid 

I know. back in our day (born 1974), food waste just wasn't a thing in my house. we weren't poor, but lower middle class, and wasting food just wasn't allowed. you finished your plate or you went hungry. sure, force feeding your kids when they aren't hungry/hate the food isn't exactly the right way either, but a balance is needed. 

I don't personally waste food unless it's by accident. I mean, the price of avocados? I'm checking those bastards every morning! 

Same here- as kids, we were told to eat everything on our plate, even the Lima beans I hated.  It wasn't until I involuntarily puked up my Lima beans onto my place that I was given a pass on those nasty things!

HughFreakingDillon said:

Cropduster-80 said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

jhager79 said:

dankind said:

tempo_n_groove said:

jhager79 said:

mace1229 said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

mace1229 said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

two parents with two kids is a ratio of 1:1. we'd probably be better off to lessen our population, but currently, I've read, it's still sustainable at the current level (the amount of food american throws out could feed the planet, for example). it's just not sustainable at the current rate of population growth. 

I know we are wasteful with food, but no way can the food we throw out feed the planet. We’re only 1/20th of the planet. We don’t throw out enough to feed 20 times our population. I’d believe we throw out enough to feed all the homeless and those without here, but not the world.
I agree with the 1:1 ratio. Problem is I don’t think we could enforce anything like that. I remember growing up as a kid and all the negative talk towards China for doing it. It wouldn’t fly here until it was already too late.

correct, it was an exaggeration and I should have qualified it as such. the real number is just as disturbing: 

According to the U.N. Environment Programme, industrialized countries in North America, Europe and Asia collectively waste 222 million tons of food each year. In contrast, countries in sub-Saharan Africa produce 230 million tons of food each year. That means sub-Saharan Africa’s food output is practically equal to the amount of food wasted by the world’s richest countries. 

source: https://www.wfpusa.org/articles/8-facts-to-know-about-food-waste-and-hunger/#:~:text=3) 30-40% of,food is damaged or spoiled

That number actually isn’t surprising to me. NA, Europe and Asia is the majority of the world. I’m not surprised the food we all collectively waste could feed sub-Saharan Africa.

I work in a grocery store and the amount of food waste through pure laziness is staggering. The amount thrown out from the store I work at alone in one week could easily feed 1000 people a week.

Sheriff Joe Arpajo would take that food and feed the inmates to save the state money.

Growing up on a farm in Florida, we always got truckloads of expired Winn Dixie or Piggly Wiggly produce for our livestock, mainly pigs. That's not to say that the family didn't also help ourselves to whatever still looked good enough to eat, but we couldn't let them know that we might eat it; it was animal-grade at that point or something, I guess.

The folks using our farm in Vermont have a similar deal with the Shaw's up there, I think.

We have a similar agreement with local farmers. Most of the products I'm referring to unfortunately aren't past code, but not visually appealing or slightly marked. Bruised apples, spotted cauliflower, ripped exterior packaging etc. All perfectly fine food thrown away because of laziness. For instance last month we had 80 cases of 8 strawberries thrown away because of one or two berries had sweaters instead of removing the off berries they all got thrown down the compactor. If the average person only knew.

I see this on a micro level all the time, with friends that have the money and are just careless with what's in their fridge or in their pantry and don't care. We were staying with friends in vancouver, for example, and the wife just comes home with loaves of bread every day, throws them on the pile on the counter. We were there 5 days. I threw out about 3 loaves a day just looking for something that wasn't completely moldy. Same situation in their fridge. it's disgusting. 

If we can find a solution to the amount of food waste 3 small kids generate I’m all ears.

kids are great, but I’ve never wasted so much food in my life.  At least since I was a kid 

I know. back in our day (born 1974), food waste just wasn't a thing in my house. we weren't poor, but lower middle class, and wasting food just wasn't allowed. you finished your plate or you went hungry. sure, force feeding your kids when they aren't hungry/hate the food isn't exactly the right way either, but a balance is needed. 

I don't personally waste food unless it's by accident. I mean, the price of avocados? I'm checking those bastards every morning! 

This was a result of the depression.  Your Grandparents most likely lived through it and instilled that in your parents. It is now skipping a generation where we aren't making the kids eat what is on their plates

Grandparents AND parents.  My pop (born in '21), his bother and their single mom were so poor that as a young kid, he and a friend of his roamed around town and picked up scrap metal and took it to the scarp yard for small amounts of change.  They figure out how to crawl under then fence at night and recover some of the scarps of metal and took it back a few days later for another little bit of money.

Brian I have heard stories like this from my older Aunts and Uncles too.  The things that they did to survive!  Not condoning any of it but man, what a crazy time it was.

I heard a commercial the other day. No idea what they were selling,  I just remember the line “in tough economic times like this…”

people are pretty removed from any sort of real hardship (at least on that scale) today. 

I’m convinced it the same reasons people don’t get the traditional vaccines anymore.  We are so removed from these things people forgot 

That 100 ft ice wall is just there to keep the wildlings out.

Pretty much.

that’s the idea with trumps wall too.  I’m opposed to it for the opposite reason. They way things are going, I don’t want anything keeping me in 

PJ_Soul

We're done for. As many of you have already said, it's climate change. We've passed the tipping point. Climate migration is going to pick up and turn into a humanitarian crisis, and eventually water wars will actually become a thing. Food scarcity will happen. After all that, whatever else is going on seems like barely worth mentioning. I do, however, thing a huge plague is inevitable too though, or superbug infections, or both. Covid was child's play IMO. And we pretty much failed that test.

Cropduster-80

PJ_Soul said:

We're done for. As many of you have already said, it's climate change. We've passed the tipping point. Climate migration is going to pick up and turn into a humanitarian crisis, and eventually water wars will actually become a thing. Food scarcity will happen. After all that, whatever else is going on seems like barely worth mentioning. I do, however, thing a huge plague is inevitable too though, or superbug infections, or both. Covid was child's play IMO. And we pretty much failed that test.

I think AI turning on us actually tops the list.  At least among people who actually do risk assessments on this kind of stuff 

as crazy as that sounds 

static111

Cropduster-80 said:

PJ_Soul said:

We're done for. As many of you have already said, it's climate change. We've passed the tipping point. Climate migration is going to pick up and turn into a humanitarian crisis, and eventually water wars will actually become a thing. Food scarcity will happen. After all that, whatever else is going on seems like barely worth mentioning. I do, however, thing a huge plague is inevitable too though, or superbug infections, or both. Covid was child's play IMO. And we pretty much failed that test.

I think AI turning on us actually tops the list.  At least among people who actually do risk assessments on this kind of stuff 

as crazy as that sounds 

It makes you wonder why all forms of AI aren't discarded? Oh yeah because they might squeeze a half a percent of profit out of something here or there

PJ_Soul

Cropduster-80 said:

PJ_Soul said:

We're done for. As many of you have already said, it's climate change. We've passed the tipping point. Climate migration is going to pick up and turn into a humanitarian crisis, and eventually water wars will actually become a thing. Food scarcity will happen. After all that, whatever else is going on seems like barely worth mentioning. I do, however, thing a huge plague is inevitable too though, or superbug infections, or both. Covid was child's play IMO. And we pretty much failed that test.

I think AI turning on us actually tops the list.  At least among people who actually do risk assessments on this kind of stuff 

as crazy as that sounds 

Well, maybe, but that possibility is still up for debate. Climate change is already happening. There is a solid side of the debate (no, not greedy capitalists) that feels advance AI will benefit humans to a great extent, including helping to solve poverty... the trick is to do it right, obviously. It's not too late like it is for climate change.

jpgoegel

brianlux said:

Bill McKibben wrote an excellent book in 2010 called Eaarth, renaming the planet because it was been altered in ways that will not be reversible for a very long time to come.  Although much of what McKibben tell us is unsettling, it also provides us with some hope.  I think that's important.  If we have no hope, we may as well all go jump off a cliff.  Author Alan Weisman describes the hope this book gives us:  "With clarity, eloquence, deep knowledge and even deeper compassion for both planet and people, Bill McKibben guides us to the brink of a new, uncharted era. This monumental book, probably his greatest, may restore your faith in the future, with us in it."

I ordered this based on your recommendation, for my pj road trip in the fall.   Thank you.    Though it's not lost on me, that while Im taking a purely hedonistic trip that includes flying and lots of driving while admiring a lot of beautiful landscapes along the way, Im reading a book about the destruction of the planet.   It's an interesting juxtaposition. 

Stove

PJ_Soul said:

We're done for. As many of you have already said, it's climate change. We've passed the tipping point. Climate migration is going to pick up and turn into a humanitarian crisis, and eventually water wars will actually become a thing. Food scarcity will happen. After all that, whatever else is going on seems like barely worth mentioning. I do, however, thing a huge plague is inevitable too though, or superbug infections, or both. Covid was child's play IMO. And we pretty much failed that test.

So are you ready for it?

brianlux

tempo_n_groove said:

brianlux said:

tempo_n_groove said:

brianlux said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

Cropduster-80 said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

jhager79 said:

dankind said:

tempo_n_groove said:

jhager79 said:

mace1229 said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

mace1229 said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

two parents with two kids is a ratio of 1:1. we'd probably be better off to lessen our population, but currently, I've read, it's still sustainable at the current level (the amount of food american throws out could feed the planet, for example). it's just not sustainable at the current rate of population growth. 

I know we are wasteful with food, but no way can the food we throw out feed the planet. We’re only 1/20th of the planet. We don’t throw out enough to feed 20 times our population. I’d believe we throw out enough to feed all the homeless and those without here, but not the world.
I agree with the 1:1 ratio. Problem is I don’t think we could enforce anything like that. I remember growing up as a kid and all the negative talk towards China for doing it. It wouldn’t fly here until it was already too late.

correct, it was an exaggeration and I should have qualified it as such. the real number is just as disturbing: 

According to the U.N. Environment Programme, industrialized countries in North America, Europe and Asia collectively waste 222 million tons of food each year. In contrast, countries in sub-Saharan Africa produce 230 million tons of food each year. That means sub-Saharan Africa’s food output is practically equal to the amount of food wasted by the world’s richest countries. 

source: https://www.wfpusa.org/articles/8-facts-to-know-about-food-waste-and-hunger/#:~:text=3) 30-40% of,food is damaged or spoiled

That number actually isn’t surprising to me. NA, Europe and Asia is the majority of the world. I’m not surprised the food we all collectively waste could feed sub-Saharan Africa.

I work in a grocery store and the amount of food waste through pure laziness is staggering. The amount thrown out from the store I work at alone in one week could easily feed 1000 people a week.

Sheriff Joe Arpajo would take that food and feed the inmates to save the state money.

Growing up on a farm in Florida, we always got truckloads of expired Winn Dixie or Piggly Wiggly produce for our livestock, mainly pigs. That's not to say that the family didn't also help ourselves to whatever still looked good enough to eat, but we couldn't let them know that we might eat it; it was animal-grade at that point or something, I guess.

The folks using our farm in Vermont have a similar deal with the Shaw's up there, I think.

We have a similar agreement with local farmers. Most of the products I'm referring to unfortunately aren't past code, but not visually appealing or slightly marked. Bruised apples, spotted cauliflower, ripped exterior packaging etc. All perfectly fine food thrown away because of laziness. For instance last month we had 80 cases of 8 strawberries thrown away because of one or two berries had sweaters instead of removing the off berries they all got thrown down the compactor. If the average person only knew.

I see this on a micro level all the time, with friends that have the money and are just careless with what's in their fridge or in their pantry and don't care. We were staying with friends in vancouver, for example, and the wife just comes home with loaves of bread every day, throws them on the pile on the counter. We were there 5 days. I threw out about 3 loaves a day just looking for something that wasn't completely moldy. Same situation in their fridge. it's disgusting. 

If we can find a solution to the amount of food waste 3 small kids generate I’m all ears.

kids are great, but I’ve never wasted so much food in my life.  At least since I was a kid 

I know. back in our day (born 1974), food waste just wasn't a thing in my house. we weren't poor, but lower middle class, and wasting food just wasn't allowed. you finished your plate or you went hungry. sure, force feeding your kids when they aren't hungry/hate the food isn't exactly the right way either, but a balance is needed. 

I don't personally waste food unless it's by accident. I mean, the price of avocados? I'm checking those bastards every morning! 

Same here- as kids, we were told to eat everything on our plate, even the Lima beans I hated.  It wasn't until I involuntarily puked up my Lima beans onto my place that I was given a pass on those nasty things!

HughFreakingDillon said:

Cropduster-80 said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

jhager79 said:

dankind said:

tempo_n_groove said:

jhager79 said:

mace1229 said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

mace1229 said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

two parents with two kids is a ratio of 1:1. we'd probably be better off to lessen our population, but currently, I've read, it's still sustainable at the current level (the amount of food american throws out could feed the planet, for example). it's just not sustainable at the current rate of population growth. 

I know we are wasteful with food, but no way can the food we throw out feed the planet. We’re only 1/20th of the planet. We don’t throw out enough to feed 20 times our population. I’d believe we throw out enough to feed all the homeless and those without here, but not the world.
I agree with the 1:1 ratio. Problem is I don’t think we could enforce anything like that. I remember growing up as a kid and all the negative talk towards China for doing it. It wouldn’t fly here until it was already too late.

correct, it was an exaggeration and I should have qualified it as such. the real number is just as disturbing: 

According to the U.N. Environment Programme, industrialized countries in North America, Europe and Asia collectively waste 222 million tons of food each year. In contrast, countries in sub-Saharan Africa produce 230 million tons of food each year. That means sub-Saharan Africa’s food output is practically equal to the amount of food wasted by the world’s richest countries. 

source: https://www.wfpusa.org/articles/8-facts-to-know-about-food-waste-and-hunger/#:~:text=3) 30-40% of,food is damaged or spoiled

That number actually isn’t surprising to me. NA, Europe and Asia is the majority of the world. I’m not surprised the food we all collectively waste could feed sub-Saharan Africa.

I work in a grocery store and the amount of food waste through pure laziness is staggering. The amount thrown out from the store I work at alone in one week could easily feed 1000 people a week.

Sheriff Joe Arpajo would take that food and feed the inmates to save the state money.

Growing up on a farm in Florida, we always got truckloads of expired Winn Dixie or Piggly Wiggly produce for our livestock, mainly pigs. That's not to say that the family didn't also help ourselves to whatever still looked good enough to eat, but we couldn't let them know that we might eat it; it was animal-grade at that point or something, I guess.

The folks using our farm in Vermont have a similar deal with the Shaw's up there, I think.

We have a similar agreement with local farmers. Most of the products I'm referring to unfortunately aren't past code, but not visually appealing or slightly marked. Bruised apples, spotted cauliflower, ripped exterior packaging etc. All perfectly fine food thrown away because of laziness. For instance last month we had 80 cases of 8 strawberries thrown away because of one or two berries had sweaters instead of removing the off berries they all got thrown down the compactor. If the average person only knew.

I see this on a micro level all the time, with friends that have the money and are just careless with what's in their fridge or in their pantry and don't care. We were staying with friends in vancouver, for example, and the wife just comes home with loaves of bread every day, throws them on the pile on the counter. We were there 5 days. I threw out about 3 loaves a day just looking for something that wasn't completely moldy. Same situation in their fridge. it's disgusting. 

If we can find a solution to the amount of food waste 3 small kids generate I’m all ears.

kids are great, but I’ve never wasted so much food in my life.  At least since I was a kid 

I know. back in our day (born 1974), food waste just wasn't a thing in my house. we weren't poor, but lower middle class, and wasting food just wasn't allowed. you finished your plate or you went hungry. sure, force feeding your kids when they aren't hungry/hate the food isn't exactly the right way either, but a balance is needed. 

I don't personally waste food unless it's by accident. I mean, the price of avocados? I'm checking those bastards every morning! 

This was a result of the depression.  Your Grandparents most likely lived through it and instilled that in your parents. It is now skipping a generation where we aren't making the kids eat what is on their plates

Grandparents AND parents.  My pop (born in '21), his bother and their single mom were so poor that as a young kid, he and a friend of his roamed around town and picked up scrap metal and took it to the scarp yard for small amounts of change.  They figure out how to crawl under then fence at night and recover some of the scarps of metal and took it back a few days later for another little bit of money.

Brian I have heard stories like this from my older Aunts and Uncles too.  The things that they did to survive!  Not condoning any of it but man, what a crazy time it was.

Yeah, hard to imagine, isn't it?  Pop never apologized or felt ashamed for double dipping selling that scarp metal.  He always said it beat starving, and with a (by no fault of her own) single Amish mother and two boys to feed, they did what they had to to survive.   Those stories really sunk in to me the knowledge that even at the very worst times in my life (including some years living below poverty level), I always had it good!

brianlux

Cropduster-80 said:

tempo_n_groove said:

brianlux said:

tempo_n_groove said:

brianlux said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

Cropduster-80 said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

jhager79 said:

dankind said:

tempo_n_groove said:

jhager79 said:

mace1229 said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

mace1229 said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

two parents with two kids is a ratio of 1:1. we'd probably be better off to lessen our population, but currently, I've read, it's still sustainable at the current level (the amount of food american throws out could feed the planet, for example). it's just not sustainable at the current rate of population growth. 

I know we are wasteful with food, but no way can the food we throw out feed the planet. We’re only 1/20th of the planet. We don’t throw out enough to feed 20 times our population. I’d believe we throw out enough to feed all the homeless and those without here, but not the world.
I agree with the 1:1 ratio. Problem is I don’t think we could enforce anything like that. I remember growing up as a kid and all the negative talk towards China for doing it. It wouldn’t fly here until it was already too late.

correct, it was an exaggeration and I should have qualified it as such. the real number is just as disturbing: 

According to the U.N. Environment Programme, industrialized countries in North America, Europe and Asia collectively waste 222 million tons of food each year. In contrast, countries in sub-Saharan Africa produce 230 million tons of food each year. That means sub-Saharan Africa’s food output is practically equal to the amount of food wasted by the world’s richest countries. 

source: https://www.wfpusa.org/articles/8-facts-to-know-about-food-waste-and-hunger/#:~:text=3) 30-40% of,food is damaged or spoiled

That number actually isn’t surprising to me. NA, Europe and Asia is the majority of the world. I’m not surprised the food we all collectively waste could feed sub-Saharan Africa.

I work in a grocery store and the amount of food waste through pure laziness is staggering. The amount thrown out from the store I work at alone in one week could easily feed 1000 people a week.

Sheriff Joe Arpajo would take that food and feed the inmates to save the state money.

Growing up on a farm in Florida, we always got truckloads of expired Winn Dixie or Piggly Wiggly produce for our livestock, mainly pigs. That's not to say that the family didn't also help ourselves to whatever still looked good enough to eat, but we couldn't let them know that we might eat it; it was animal-grade at that point or something, I guess.

The folks using our farm in Vermont have a similar deal with the Shaw's up there, I think.

We have a similar agreement with local farmers. Most of the products I'm referring to unfortunately aren't past code, but not visually appealing or slightly marked. Bruised apples, spotted cauliflower, ripped exterior packaging etc. All perfectly fine food thrown away because of laziness. For instance last month we had 80 cases of 8 strawberries thrown away because of one or two berries had sweaters instead of removing the off berries they all got thrown down the compactor. If the average person only knew.

I see this on a micro level all the time, with friends that have the money and are just careless with what's in their fridge or in their pantry and don't care. We were staying with friends in vancouver, for example, and the wife just comes home with loaves of bread every day, throws them on the pile on the counter. We were there 5 days. I threw out about 3 loaves a day just looking for something that wasn't completely moldy. Same situation in their fridge. it's disgusting. 

If we can find a solution to the amount of food waste 3 small kids generate I’m all ears.

kids are great, but I’ve never wasted so much food in my life.  At least since I was a kid 

I know. back in our day (born 1974), food waste just wasn't a thing in my house. we weren't poor, but lower middle class, and wasting food just wasn't allowed. you finished your plate or you went hungry. sure, force feeding your kids when they aren't hungry/hate the food isn't exactly the right way either, but a balance is needed. 

I don't personally waste food unless it's by accident. I mean, the price of avocados? I'm checking those bastards every morning! 

Same here- as kids, we were told to eat everything on our plate, even the Lima beans I hated.  It wasn't until I involuntarily puked up my Lima beans onto my place that I was given a pass on those nasty things!

HughFreakingDillon said:

Cropduster-80 said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

jhager79 said:

dankind said:

tempo_n_groove said:

jhager79 said:

mace1229 said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

mace1229 said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

two parents with two kids is a ratio of 1:1. we'd probably be better off to lessen our population, but currently, I've read, it's still sustainable at the current level (the amount of food american throws out could feed the planet, for example). it's just not sustainable at the current rate of population growth. 

I know we are wasteful with food, but no way can the food we throw out feed the planet. We’re only 1/20th of the planet. We don’t throw out enough to feed 20 times our population. I’d believe we throw out enough to feed all the homeless and those without here, but not the world.
I agree with the 1:1 ratio. Problem is I don’t think we could enforce anything like that. I remember growing up as a kid and all the negative talk towards China for doing it. It wouldn’t fly here until it was already too late.

correct, it was an exaggeration and I should have qualified it as such. the real number is just as disturbing: 

According to the U.N. Environment Programme, industrialized countries in North America, Europe and Asia collectively waste 222 million tons of food each year. In contrast, countries in sub-Saharan Africa produce 230 million tons of food each year. That means sub-Saharan Africa’s food output is practically equal to the amount of food wasted by the world’s richest countries. 

source: https://www.wfpusa.org/articles/8-facts-to-know-about-food-waste-and-hunger/#:~:text=3) 30-40% of,food is damaged or spoiled

That number actually isn’t surprising to me. NA, Europe and Asia is the majority of the world. I’m not surprised the food we all collectively waste could feed sub-Saharan Africa.

I work in a grocery store and the amount of food waste through pure laziness is staggering. The amount thrown out from the store I work at alone in one week could easily feed 1000 people a week.

Sheriff Joe Arpajo would take that food and feed the inmates to save the state money.

Growing up on a farm in Florida, we always got truckloads of expired Winn Dixie or Piggly Wiggly produce for our livestock, mainly pigs. That's not to say that the family didn't also help ourselves to whatever still looked good enough to eat, but we couldn't let them know that we might eat it; it was animal-grade at that point or something, I guess.

The folks using our farm in Vermont have a similar deal with the Shaw's up there, I think.

We have a similar agreement with local farmers. Most of the products I'm referring to unfortunately aren't past code, but not visually appealing or slightly marked. Bruised apples, spotted cauliflower, ripped exterior packaging etc. All perfectly fine food thrown away because of laziness. For instance last month we had 80 cases of 8 strawberries thrown away because of one or two berries had sweaters instead of removing the off berries they all got thrown down the compactor. If the average person only knew.

I see this on a micro level all the time, with friends that have the money and are just careless with what's in their fridge or in their pantry and don't care. We were staying with friends in vancouver, for example, and the wife just comes home with loaves of bread every day, throws them on the pile on the counter. We were there 5 days. I threw out about 3 loaves a day just looking for something that wasn't completely moldy. Same situation in their fridge. it's disgusting. 

If we can find a solution to the amount of food waste 3 small kids generate I’m all ears.

kids are great, but I’ve never wasted so much food in my life.  At least since I was a kid 

I know. back in our day (born 1974), food waste just wasn't a thing in my house. we weren't poor, but lower middle class, and wasting food just wasn't allowed. you finished your plate or you went hungry. sure, force feeding your kids when they aren't hungry/hate the food isn't exactly the right way either, but a balance is needed. 

I don't personally waste food unless it's by accident. I mean, the price of avocados? I'm checking those bastards every morning! 

This was a result of the depression.  Your Grandparents most likely lived through it and instilled that in your parents. It is now skipping a generation where we aren't making the kids eat what is on their plates

Grandparents AND parents.  My pop (born in '21), his bother and their single mom were so poor that as a young kid, he and a friend of his roamed around town and picked up scrap metal and took it to the scarp yard for small amounts of change.  They figure out how to crawl under then fence at night and recover some of the scarps of metal and took it back a few days later for another little bit of money.

Brian I have heard stories like this from my older Aunts and Uncles too.  The things that they did to survive!  Not condoning any of it but man, what a crazy time it was.

I heard a commercial the other day. No idea what they were selling,  I just remember the line “in tough economic times like this…”

people are pretty removed from any sort of real hardship (at least on that scale) today. 

I’m convinced it the same reasons people don’t get the traditional vaccines anymore.  We are so removed from these things people forgot 

Spot on!  Unless it is coming from someone living on the street or in their car, it bugs the shit out of me to hear people talk about "tough economic times". 

brianlux

jpgoegel said:

brianlux said:

Bill McKibben wrote an excellent book in 2010 called Eaarth, renaming the planet because it was been altered in ways that will not be reversible for a very long time to come.  Although much of what McKibben tell us is unsettling, it also provides us with some hope.  I think that's important.  If we have no hope, we may as well all go jump off a cliff.  Author Alan Weisman describes the hope this book gives us:  "With clarity, eloquence, deep knowledge and even deeper compassion for both planet and people, Bill McKibben guides us to the brink of a new, uncharted era. This monumental book, probably his greatest, may restore your faith in the future, with us in it."

I ordered this based on your recommendation, for my pj road trip in the fall.   Thank you.    Though it's not lost on me, that while Im taking a purely hedonistic trip that includes flying and lots of driving while admiring a lot of beautiful landscapes along the way, Im reading a book about the destruction of the planet.   It's an interesting juxtaposition. 

I won't beat up up over the irony there, pjg.  My own wife flies up to Alaska to see here daughter a few times a year.  I haven't been in a plane since around 1989, so I have your and her asses covered.          

Seriously though, have a safe trip and let me know how you like the book!

brianlux

Here is a somewhat long but engaging and well written article about wealthy preppers. I found it mildly disturbing, but also, because of some of the alternatives to wealthy prepper thinking that are presented here, also highly encouraging.

The mildly (some might find it very) disturbing content here illustrates the inevitability of the "event"- "a grey swan, or predictable catastrophe triggered by our enemies, Mother Nature, or ... accident"- that will create a period of chaos in society.

The encouraging content describes a sensible model for cooperating and planning on a community level.  I personally think this is a bit optimistic- especially observing the anger and bitterness in many circles and the breakdown of community that is a result of living in a digital/virtual world  where we so often communicate the way I am right now rather than face-to-face in real time like we used to- but good ideas can be sparks and sparks can start things moving.  So who knows?

This is an excellent read.  I think some of you will find it well worth the time to check out:

https://www.theguardian.com/news/2022/sep/04/super-rich-prepper-bunkers-apocalypse-survival-richest-rushkoff

Stove

brianlux said:

Here is a somewhat long but engaging and well written article about wealthy preppers. I found it mildly disturbing, but also, because of some of the alternatives to wealthy prepper thinking that are presented here, also highly encouraging.

The mildly (some might find it very) disturbing content here illustrates the inevitability of the "event"- "a grey swan, or predictable catastrophe triggered by our enemies, Mother Nature, or ... accident"- that will create a period of chaos in society.

The encouraging content describes a sensible model for cooperating and planning on a community level.  I personally think this is a bit optimistic- especially observing the anger and bitterness in many circles and the breakdown of community that is a result of living in a digital/virtual world  where we so often communicate the way I am right now rather than face-to-face in real time like we used to- but good ideas can be sparks and sparks can start things moving.  So who knows?

This is an excellent read.  I think some of you will find it well worth the time to check out:

https://www.theguardian.com/news/2022/sep/04/super-rich-prepper-bunkers-apocalypse-survival-richest-rushkoff

In skimming it does certainly break it into the logistics of things instead of the world being thrown into utter chaos and how ultimately the richo people will have to work with the people they exploited if they want to survive. Which reaffirms that rich people would be nothing without the working class.

brianlux

Stove said:

brianlux said:

Here is a somewhat long but engaging and well written article about wealthy preppers. I found it mildly disturbing, but also, because of some of the alternatives to wealthy prepper thinking that are presented here, also highly encouraging.

The mildly (some might find it very) disturbing content here illustrates the inevitability of the "event"- "a grey swan, or predictable catastrophe triggered by our enemies, Mother Nature, or ... accident"- that will create a period of chaos in society.

The encouraging content describes a sensible model for cooperating and planning on a community level.  I personally think this is a bit optimistic- especially observing the anger and bitterness in many circles and the breakdown of community that is a result of living in a digital/virtual world  where we so often communicate the way I am right now rather than face-to-face in real time like we used to- but good ideas can be sparks and sparks can start things moving.  So who knows?

This is an excellent read.  I think some of you will find it well worth the time to check out:

https://www.theguardian.com/news/2022/sep/04/super-rich-prepper-bunkers-apocalypse-survival-richest-rushkoff

In skimming it does certainly break it into the logistics of things instead of the world being thrown into utter chaos and how ultimately the richo people will have to work with the people they exploited if they want to survive. Which reaffirms that rich people would be nothing without the working class.

An excellent summation, Stove.

Stove

I wanted to go back to this discussion b/c I’ve been thinking about it a lot….b/c now…we truly are fucked in America. New Hitler is here & he’s going to exterminate the middle class. Didn’t think I’d live to see the destruction of the American world as we know it….even the older people don’t remember it being this bad.  

Lerxst1992

Even the older people? Wow.


 World War II, the United States forcibly relocated and incarcerated about 120,000 people of Japanese descent in ten concentration camps operated by the War Relocation Authority (WRA), mostly in the western interior of the country. About two-thirds were U.S. citizens. These actions were initiated by Executive Order 9066, issued by President Franklin D. Roosevelt on February 19, 1942, following the outbreak of war with the Empire of Japan in December 1941. About 127,000 Japanese Americans then lived in the continental U.S., of which about 112,000 lived on the West Coast. About 80,000 were Nisei('second generation'; American-born Japanese with U.S. citizenship) and Sansei ('third generation', the children of Nisei). The rest were Issei ('first generation') immigrants born in Japan, who were ineligible for citizenship. In Hawaii, where more than 150,000 Japanese Americans comprised more than one-third of the territory's population, only 1,200 to 1,800 were incarcerated.

brianlux

Stove said:

I wanted to go back to this discussion b/c I’ve been thinking about it a lot….b/c now…we truly are fucked in America. New Hitler is here & he’s going to exterminate the middle class. Didn’t think I’d live to see the destruction of the American world as we know it….even the older people don’t remember it being this bad.  

I understand you concerns, Stove.  I do think there is hope.  Resistance is live!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rCUK2VbdLS4

Stove

Lerxst1992 said:

Even the older people? Wow.


 World War II, the United States forcibly relocated and incarcerated about 120,000 people of Japanese descent in ten concentration camps operated by the War Relocation Authority (WRA), mostly in the western interior of the country. About two-thirds were U.S. citizens. These actions were initiated by Executive Order 9066, issued by President Franklin D. Roosevelt on February 19, 1942, following the outbreak of war with the Empire of Japan in December 1941. About 127,000 Japanese Americans then lived in the continental U.S., of which about 112,000 lived on the West Coast. About 80,000 were Nisei('second generation'; American-born Japanese with U.S. citizenship) and Sansei ('third generation', the children of Nisei). The rest were Issei ('first generation') immigrants born in Japan, who were ineligible for citizenship. In Hawaii, where more than 150,000 Japanese Americans comprised more than one-third of the territory's population, only 1,200 to 1,800 were incarcerated.

History repeats with lgbt & immigrants & much like the Chilean dictatorship (which America helped put in place) people are now disappearing.

HughFreakingDillon

Lerxst1992 said:

Even the older people? Wow.


 World War II, the United States forcibly relocated and incarcerated about 120,000 people of Japanese descent in ten concentration camps operated by the War Relocation Authority (WRA), mostly in the western interior of the country. About two-thirds were U.S. citizens. These actions were initiated by Executive Order 9066, issued by President Franklin D. Roosevelt on February 19, 1942, following the outbreak of war with the Empire of Japan in December 1941. About 127,000 Japanese Americans then lived in the continental U.S., of which about 112,000 lived on the West Coast. About 80,000 were Nisei('second generation'; American-born Japanese with U.S. citizenship) and Sansei ('third generation', the children of Nisei). The rest were Issei ('first generation') immigrants born in Japan, who were ineligible for citizenship. In Hawaii, where more than 150,000 Japanese Americans comprised more than one-third of the territory's population, only 1,200 to 1,800 were incarcerated.

strange. Stove never said anything resembling "even the Japanese people don't remember it being this bad". 

Stove

Stove said:

I wanted to go back to this discussion b/c I’ve been thinking about it a lot….b/c now…we truly are fucked in America. New Hitler is here & he’s going to exterminate the middle class. Didn’t think I’d live to see the destruction of the American world as we know it….even the older people don’t remember it being this bad.  

It all happens with a shred of jealous on my part. I am of the generation that never got a house, never had a family. Someone put it concisely as “there is no American dream anymore, it’s survival.” 

Halifax2TheMax

Stove said:

Lerxst1992 said:

Even the older people? Wow.


 World War II, the United States forcibly relocated and incarcerated about 120,000 people of Japanese descent in ten concentration camps operated by the War Relocation Authority (WRA), mostly in the western interior of the country. About two-thirds were U.S. citizens. These actions were initiated by Executive Order 9066, issued by President Franklin D. Roosevelt on February 19, 1942, following the outbreak of war with the Empire of Japan in December 1941. About 127,000 Japanese Americans then lived in the continental U.S., of which about 112,000 lived on the West Coast. About 80,000 were Nisei('second generation'; American-born Japanese with U.S. citizenship) and Sansei ('third generation', the children of Nisei). The rest were Issei ('first generation') immigrants born in Japan, who were ineligible for citizenship. In Hawaii, where more than 150,000 Japanese Americans comprised more than one-third of the territory's population, only 1,200 to 1,800 were incarcerated.

History repeats with lgbt & immigrants & much like the Chilean dictatorship (which America helped put in place) people are now disappearing.

Well, at least we’re not here yet, as far as we know.

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/finding-argentina-death-plane-60-minutes-transcript/