Has the world (as we know it) ended?

jhager79

Stove said:

jhager79 said:

brianlux said:

jhager79 said:

I might be the only one who thinks like this but this feels like a week that could change the world in an unaimagined way.  One of those weeks/ days that would be looked at as when things happened that didn't need to happen that set us on course for disaster. 

I hear you, J.  Reading the NY Times this morning put me in that frame of mind as well.  What a start to the day!  Can't sleep because of the heat, so get up and read about the world going to shit.  

More coffee, please! 

Somedays I think it be better to just stay in my own little bubble like a lot of people I know. They seem happy. Uninformed but happy. 

Honestly thats the way to go...imagine thinking death is imminent and the world is trash...well then you be me...and it suxxxxxxx.

I can't do it though. It's horrible for my anxiety but I just can't turn away. I do think that the world is a better place than we give it credit for. Truly believe that the vast majority of people are good, sometimes we just need to be reminded of how to treat others. If we treated others the way we want to be treated society we function a lot better than it does currently.  I make a conscious effort to live that way and it makes a big difference for me.

brianlux

Stove said:

jhager79 said:

brianlux said:

jhager79 said:

I might be the only one who thinks like this but this feels like a week that could change the world in an unaimagined way.  One of those weeks/ days that would be looked at as when things happened that didn't need to happen that set us on course for disaster. 

I hear you, J.  Reading the NY Times this morning put me in that frame of mind as well.  What a start to the day!  Can't sleep because of the heat, so get up and read about the world going to shit.  

More coffee, please! 

Somedays I think it be better to just stay in my own little bubble like a lot of people I know. They seem happy. Uninformed but happy. 

Honestly thats the way to go...imagine thinking death is imminent and the world is trash...well then you be me...and it suxxxxxxx.

Stove said:

Stove said:

jhager79 said:

brianlux said:

jhager79 said:

I might be the only one who thinks like this but this feels like a week that could change the world in an unaimagined way.  One of those weeks/ days that would be looked at as when things happened that didn't need to happen that set us on course for disaster. 

I hear you, J.  Reading the NY Times this morning put me in that frame of mind as well.  What a start to the day!  Can't sleep because of the heat, so get up and read about the world going to shit.  

More coffee, please! 

Somedays I think it be better to just stay in my own little bubble like a lot of people I know. They seem happy. Uninformed but happy. 

Honestly thats the way to go...imagine thinking death is imminent and the world is trash...well then you be me...and it suxxxxxxx.

And part of me is like....why? Why did I have to be around to see the end of civilization, my grandad died in his sleep. I get to be around when a bunch of humans didn't give a shit and destroyed themselves. We didn't work together, we were warned and ultimately we didn't care. Not enough people gave a shit. And we clenched it, we collectively screwed ourselves.

Man, I get it.  It is so frustrating to see how our species simply fucked it all up.

Yet still, I think it's worth trying to find meaning in all of this.  And because I have a hard time staying with the following thought, I feel a little bit hypocritical even before I write this, but let's try it anyway.
Sometimes it can be valuable to keep in mind that we are fragile beings and death is always imminent, if for no other reason than that a lifetime goes by quickly, and it goes faster the older you get.  And even day-to-day, any of us could be gone in an instant.  Who hasn't had at least one close call (I've had over a dozen)?
So knowing that, you have a few choices- worry about it all the time, be oblivious, or make the best of at least some part of each day.  How do I say this without sounding like a Hallmark card or new age philosopher- especially when it's been said a thousand times and usually better than I could?  But really, each day we are alive gives us an opportunity to grow, learn, take pleasure, help someone or some critter, or be creative.   I have to remind myself that a lot and find some way to make each day count, at least a little.
Stove, I hope you can at least find a balance.  Like what Hedonist said, I'm the same way,  I can't just turn it all off- but I hope you can find somethings  that help give you some purpose, joy, a way to help make things better, or some kind of pleasure.  I hope we all can.

tempo_n_groove

Everybody must bless for the ugly sea snakes in the ocean so we can lose the albatross from our necks...

Lerxst1992

jhager79 said:

Stove said:

jhager79 said:

brianlux said:

jhager79 said:

I might be the only one who thinks like this but this feels like a week that could change the world in an unaimagined way.  One of those weeks/ days that would be looked at as when things happened that didn't need to happen that set us on course for disaster. 

I hear you, J.  Reading the NY Times this morning put me in that frame of mind as well.  What a start to the day!  Can't sleep because of the heat, so get up and read about the world going to shit.  

More coffee, please! 

Somedays I think it be better to just stay in my own little bubble like a lot of people I know. They seem happy. Uninformed but happy. 

Honestly thats the way to go...imagine thinking death is imminent and the world is trash...well then you be me...and it suxxxxxxx.

I can't do it though. It's horrible for my anxiety but I just can't turn away. I do think that the world is a better place than we give it credit for. Truly believe that the vast majority of people are good, sometimes we just need to be reminded of how to treat others. If we treated others the way we want to be treated society we function a lot better than it does currently.  I make a conscious effort to live that way and it makes a big difference for me.

What’s the saying, most people are nice but not kind? They are mostly concerned with themselves and their own circle of family/friends? 

The one thing we can do to help the planet is end coal now. But try having that discussion with a Republican voter or an independent. 

static111

Lerxst1992 said:

jhager79 said:

Stove said:

jhager79 said:

brianlux said:

jhager79 said:

I might be the only one who thinks like this but this feels like a week that could change the world in an unaimagined way.  One of those weeks/ days that would be looked at as when things happened that didn't need to happen that set us on course for disaster. 

I hear you, J.  Reading the NY Times this morning put me in that frame of mind as well.  What a start to the day!  Can't sleep because of the heat, so get up and read about the world going to shit.  

More coffee, please! 

Somedays I think it be better to just stay in my own little bubble like a lot of people I know. They seem happy. Uninformed but happy. 

Honestly thats the way to go...imagine thinking death is imminent and the world is trash...well then you be me...and it suxxxxxxx.

I can't do it though. It's horrible for my anxiety but I just can't turn away. I do think that the world is a better place than we give it credit for. Truly believe that the vast majority of people are good, sometimes we just need to be reminded of how to treat others. If we treated others the way we want to be treated society we function a lot better than it does currently.  I make a conscious effort to live that way and it makes a big difference for me.

What’s the saying, most people are nice but not kind? They are mostly concerned with themselves and their own circle of family/friends? 

The one thing we can do to help the planet is end coal now. But try having that discussion with a Republican voter or an independent. 

Though that would be a help, I don't think the issue is that simple.  We still have factory farming, global shipping, the decimation of the rainforest, over fishing, ocean pollution etc.  It is a very interconnected ecosystem of destruction and if we just take one link out of the web without greatly rethinking how to make our society more sustainable we will at best just kick the can down the road.

tempo_n_groove

static111 said:

Lerxst1992 said:

jhager79 said:

Stove said:

jhager79 said:

brianlux said:

jhager79 said:

I might be the only one who thinks like this but this feels like a week that could change the world in an unaimagined way.  One of those weeks/ days that would be looked at as when things happened that didn't need to happen that set us on course for disaster. 

I hear you, J.  Reading the NY Times this morning put me in that frame of mind as well.  What a start to the day!  Can't sleep because of the heat, so get up and read about the world going to shit.  

More coffee, please! 

Somedays I think it be better to just stay in my own little bubble like a lot of people I know. They seem happy. Uninformed but happy. 

Honestly thats the way to go...imagine thinking death is imminent and the world is trash...well then you be me...and it suxxxxxxx.

I can't do it though. It's horrible for my anxiety but I just can't turn away. I do think that the world is a better place than we give it credit for. Truly believe that the vast majority of people are good, sometimes we just need to be reminded of how to treat others. If we treated others the way we want to be treated society we function a lot better than it does currently.  I make a conscious effort to live that way and it makes a big difference for me.

What’s the saying, most people are nice but not kind? They are mostly concerned with themselves and their own circle of family/friends? 

The one thing we can do to help the planet is end coal now. But try having that discussion with a Republican voter or an independent. 

Though that would be a help, I don't think the issue is that simple.  We still have factory farming, global shipping, the decimation of the rainforest, over fishing, ocean pollution etc.  It is a very interconnected ecosystem of destruction and if we just take one link out of the web without greatly rethinking how to make our society more sustainable we will at best just kick the can down the road.

Aren't ships a good method of shipping?  Lose the next day air stuff and there you go.

static111

tempo_n_groove said:

static111 said:

Lerxst1992 said:

jhager79 said:

Stove said:

jhager79 said:

brianlux said:

jhager79 said:

I might be the only one who thinks like this but this feels like a week that could change the world in an unaimagined way.  One of those weeks/ days that would be looked at as when things happened that didn't need to happen that set us on course for disaster. 

I hear you, J.  Reading the NY Times this morning put me in that frame of mind as well.  What a start to the day!  Can't sleep because of the heat, so get up and read about the world going to shit.  

More coffee, please! 

Somedays I think it be better to just stay in my own little bubble like a lot of people I know. They seem happy. Uninformed but happy. 

Honestly thats the way to go...imagine thinking death is imminent and the world is trash...well then you be me...and it suxxxxxxx.

I can't do it though. It's horrible for my anxiety but I just can't turn away. I do think that the world is a better place than we give it credit for. Truly believe that the vast majority of people are good, sometimes we just need to be reminded of how to treat others. If we treated others the way we want to be treated society we function a lot better than it does currently.  I make a conscious effort to live that way and it makes a big difference for me.

What’s the saying, most people are nice but not kind? They are mostly concerned with themselves and their own circle of family/friends? 

The one thing we can do to help the planet is end coal now. But try having that discussion with a Republican voter or an independent. 

Though that would be a help, I don't think the issue is that simple.  We still have factory farming, global shipping, the decimation of the rainforest, over fishing, ocean pollution etc.  It is a very interconnected ecosystem of destruction and if we just take one link out of the web without greatly rethinking how to make our society more sustainable we will at best just kick the can down the road.

Aren't ships a good method of shipping?  Lose the next day air stuff and there you go.

I'm inferring shortening a supply chain by reshoring and creating closer trade and manufacturing ties with regional partners so there is no need for intercontinental long distance shipping.

static111

tempo_n_groove said:

static111 said:

Lerxst1992 said:

jhager79 said:

Stove said:

jhager79 said:

brianlux said:

jhager79 said:

I might be the only one who thinks like this but this feels like a week that could change the world in an unaimagined way.  One of those weeks/ days that would be looked at as when things happened that didn't need to happen that set us on course for disaster. 

I hear you, J.  Reading the NY Times this morning put me in that frame of mind as well.  What a start to the day!  Can't sleep because of the heat, so get up and read about the world going to shit.  

More coffee, please! 

Somedays I think it be better to just stay in my own little bubble like a lot of people I know. They seem happy. Uninformed but happy. 

Honestly thats the way to go...imagine thinking death is imminent and the world is trash...well then you be me...and it suxxxxxxx.

I can't do it though. It's horrible for my anxiety but I just can't turn away. I do think that the world is a better place than we give it credit for. Truly believe that the vast majority of people are good, sometimes we just need to be reminded of how to treat others. If we treated others the way we want to be treated society we function a lot better than it does currently.  I make a conscious effort to live that way and it makes a big difference for me.

What’s the saying, most people are nice but not kind? They are mostly concerned with themselves and their own circle of family/friends? 

The one thing we can do to help the planet is end coal now. But try having that discussion with a Republican voter or an independent. 

Though that would be a help, I don't think the issue is that simple.  We still have factory farming, global shipping, the decimation of the rainforest, over fishing, ocean pollution etc.  It is a very interconnected ecosystem of destruction and if we just take one link out of the web without greatly rethinking how to make our society more sustainable we will at best just kick the can down the road.

Aren't ships a good method of shipping?  Lose the next day air stuff and there you go.

https://clearseas.org/en/air-pollution/  Yes compared to other methods, but still harmful.  Shortening supply chains and making economies continental or regional would do more for stability. As would manufacturing goods with longer shelf lifes so people don't need to buy a new toaster every 2 years, or a global campaign to conserve and use what you have as long as you can before replacing it.  Nobody needs to buy a new computer or phone or TV every few years, but still many millions do which is a resource waste. Also no one needs a tv in every room or a computer in every room, but still many millions do...all these things add up. Sadly there are no quick and easy or painless fixes, but the alternative will likely be more painful.

Stove

Bill Maher is someone controversial in some of his opinions I appreciate how he calls the left on their bullshit, he also has a good team of writers....and they're not wrong about some issues. Back on when we were talking about population earlier.

Zod

I think the problem with temperature rising, is what the climate changes to do land being used for agriculture.

What happen's if the California drought doesn't end, and the farmers use up all the groundwater kind of thing (which is even hard to replenish than the lakes).    As the climate changes will we still have enough land/resources to keep growing food at the rates we do.

That's one of my biggest concerns with climate change, is land changing in this way.   Land no longer being able to support agriculture.

Stove

Zod said:

I think the problem with temperature rising, is what the climate changes to do land being used for agriculture.

What happen's if the California drought doesn't end, and the farmers use up all the groundwater kind of thing (which is even hard to replenish than the lakes).    As the climate changes will we still have enough land/resources to keep growing food at the rates we do.

That's one of my biggest concerns with climate change, is land changing in this way.   Land no longer being able to support agriculture.

tbf...California is in a drought every other year.... 

mace1229

dankind said:

tempo_n_groove said:

jhager79 said:

mace1229 said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

mace1229 said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

two parents with two kids is a ratio of 1:1. we'd probably be better off to lessen our population, but currently, I've read, it's still sustainable at the current level (the amount of food american throws out could feed the planet, for example). it's just not sustainable at the current rate of population growth. 

I know we are wasteful with food, but no way can the food we throw out feed the planet. We’re only 1/20th of the planet. We don’t throw out enough to feed 20 times our population. I’d believe we throw out enough to feed all the homeless and those without here, but not the world.
I agree with the 1:1 ratio. Problem is I don’t think we could enforce anything like that. I remember growing up as a kid and all the negative talk towards China for doing it. It wouldn’t fly here until it was already too late.

correct, it was an exaggeration and I should have qualified it as such. the real number is just as disturbing: 

According to the U.N. Environment Programme, industrialized countries in North America, Europe and Asia collectively waste 222 million tons of food each year. In contrast, countries in sub-Saharan Africa produce 230 million tons of food each year. That means sub-Saharan Africa’s food output is practically equal to the amount of food wasted by the world’s richest countries. 

source: https://www.wfpusa.org/articles/8-facts-to-know-about-food-waste-and-hunger/#:~:text=3) 30-40% of,food is damaged or spoiled

That number actually isn’t surprising to me. NA, Europe and Asia is the majority of the world. I’m not surprised the food we all collectively waste could feed sub-Saharan Africa.

I work in a grocery store and the amount of food waste through pure laziness is staggering. The amount thrown out from the store I work at alone in one week could easily feed 1000 people a week.

Sheriff Joe Arpajo would take that food and feed the inmates to save the state money.

Growing up on a farm in Florida, we always got truckloads of expired Winn Dixie or Piggly Wiggly produce for our livestock, mainly pigs. That's not to say that the family didn't also help ourselves to whatever still looked good enough to eat, but we couldn't let them know that we might eat it; it was animal-grade at that point or something, I guess.

The folks using our farm in Vermont have a similar deal with the Shaw's up there, I think.

That’s how Joe fed his tigers.

Halifax2TheMax

mace1229 said:

dankind said:

tempo_n_groove said:

jhager79 said:

mace1229 said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

mace1229 said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

two parents with two kids is a ratio of 1:1. we'd probably be better off to lessen our population, but currently, I've read, it's still sustainable at the current level (the amount of food american throws out could feed the planet, for example). it's just not sustainable at the current rate of population growth. 

I know we are wasteful with food, but no way can the food we throw out feed the planet. We’re only 1/20th of the planet. We don’t throw out enough to feed 20 times our population. I’d believe we throw out enough to feed all the homeless and those without here, but not the world.
I agree with the 1:1 ratio. Problem is I don’t think we could enforce anything like that. I remember growing up as a kid and all the negative talk towards China for doing it. It wouldn’t fly here until it was already too late.

correct, it was an exaggeration and I should have qualified it as such. the real number is just as disturbing: 

According to the U.N. Environment Programme, industrialized countries in North America, Europe and Asia collectively waste 222 million tons of food each year. In contrast, countries in sub-Saharan Africa produce 230 million tons of food each year. That means sub-Saharan Africa’s food output is practically equal to the amount of food wasted by the world’s richest countries. 

source: https://www.wfpusa.org/articles/8-facts-to-know-about-food-waste-and-hunger/#:~:text=3) 30-40% of,food is damaged or spoiled

That number actually isn’t surprising to me. NA, Europe and Asia is the majority of the world. I’m not surprised the food we all collectively waste could feed sub-Saharan Africa.

I work in a grocery store and the amount of food waste through pure laziness is staggering. The amount thrown out from the store I work at alone in one week could easily feed 1000 people a week.

Sheriff Joe Arpajo would take that food and feed the inmates to save the state money.

Growing up on a farm in Florida, we always got truckloads of expired Winn Dixie or Piggly Wiggly produce for our livestock, mainly pigs. That's not to say that the family didn't also help ourselves to whatever still looked good enough to eat, but we couldn't let them know that we might eat it; it was animal-grade at that point or something, I guess.

The folks using our farm in Vermont have a similar deal with the Shaw's up there, I think.

That’s how Joe fed his tigers.

Brandon has tigers? So that’s what happened to Marc Rich’s body!

Stove

mace1229 said:

dankind said:

tempo_n_groove said:

jhager79 said:

mace1229 said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

mace1229 said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

two parents with two kids is a ratio of 1:1. we'd probably be better off to lessen our population, but currently, I've read, it's still sustainable at the current level (the amount of food american throws out could feed the planet, for example). it's just not sustainable at the current rate of population growth. 

I know we are wasteful with food, but no way can the food we throw out feed the planet. We’re only 1/20th of the planet. We don’t throw out enough to feed 20 times our population. I’d believe we throw out enough to feed all the homeless and those without here, but not the world.
I agree with the 1:1 ratio. Problem is I don’t think we could enforce anything like that. I remember growing up as a kid and all the negative talk towards China for doing it. It wouldn’t fly here until it was already too late.

correct, it was an exaggeration and I should have qualified it as such. the real number is just as disturbing: 

According to the U.N. Environment Programme, industrialized countries in North America, Europe and Asia collectively waste 222 million tons of food each year. In contrast, countries in sub-Saharan Africa produce 230 million tons of food each year. That means sub-Saharan Africa’s food output is practically equal to the amount of food wasted by the world’s richest countries. 

source: https://www.wfpusa.org/articles/8-facts-to-know-about-food-waste-and-hunger/#:~:text=3) 30-40% of,food is damaged or spoiled

That number actually isn’t surprising to me. NA, Europe and Asia is the majority of the world. I’m not surprised the food we all collectively waste could feed sub-Saharan Africa.

I work in a grocery store and the amount of food waste through pure laziness is staggering. The amount thrown out from the store I work at alone in one week could easily feed 1000 people a week.

Sheriff Joe Arpajo would take that food and feed the inmates to save the state money.

Growing up on a farm in Florida, we always got truckloads of expired Winn Dixie or Piggly Wiggly produce for our livestock, mainly pigs. That's not to say that the family didn't also help ourselves to whatever still looked good enough to eat, but we couldn't let them know that we might eat it; it was animal-grade at that point or something, I guess.

The folks using our farm in Vermont have a similar deal with the Shaw's up there, I think.

That’s how Joe fed his tigers.

And he never financially 
recovered from it.... 

brianlux

tempo_n_groove said:

static111 said:

Lerxst1992 said:

jhager79 said:

Stove said:

jhager79 said:

brianlux said:

jhager79 said:

I might be the only one who thinks like this but this feels like a week that could change the world in an unaimagined way.  One of those weeks/ days that would be looked at as when things happened that didn't need to happen that set us on course for disaster. 

I hear you, J.  Reading the NY Times this morning put me in that frame of mind as well.  What a start to the day!  Can't sleep because of the heat, so get up and read about the world going to shit.  

More coffee, please! 

Somedays I think it be better to just stay in my own little bubble like a lot of people I know. They seem happy. Uninformed but happy. 

Honestly thats the way to go...imagine thinking death is imminent and the world is trash...well then you be me...and it suxxxxxxx.

I can't do it though. It's horrible for my anxiety but I just can't turn away. I do think that the world is a better place than we give it credit for. Truly believe that the vast majority of people are good, sometimes we just need to be reminded of how to treat others. If we treated others the way we want to be treated society we function a lot better than it does currently.  I make a conscious effort to live that way and it makes a big difference for me.

What’s the saying, most people are nice but not kind? They are mostly concerned with themselves and their own circle of family/friends? 

The one thing we can do to help the planet is end coal now. But try having that discussion with a Republican voter or an independent. 

Though that would be a help, I don't think the issue is that simple.  We still have factory farming, global shipping, the decimation of the rainforest, over fishing, ocean pollution etc.  It is a very interconnected ecosystem of destruction and if we just take one link out of the web without greatly rethinking how to make our society more sustainable we will at best just kick the can down the road.

Aren't ships a good method of shipping?  Lose the next day air stuff and there you go.

I wonder how long it would take people to get used to the time lag?  My step daughter lives in Ketchikan, Alaska and a lot of what gets sent there goes by ship and then barge.   They're used to it, but most of us would no be.  Stuff takes a long time to get there.  True, it is an isolated town, but the idea of shipping by slow boat or train (fine with me) would not go over well with a big percentage of the population.

All that said, I agree with the idea.  When I was a kid and you ordered something by mail, most often the order slip would say "Please allow six weeks for delivery."  We did it then, we could do it and get used to it again.  I hope, anyway!

tempo_n_groove

brianlux said:

tempo_n_groove said:

static111 said:

Lerxst1992 said:

jhager79 said:

Stove said:

jhager79 said:

brianlux said:

jhager79 said:

I might be the only one who thinks like this but this feels like a week that could change the world in an unaimagined way.  One of those weeks/ days that would be looked at as when things happened that didn't need to happen that set us on course for disaster. 

I hear you, J.  Reading the NY Times this morning put me in that frame of mind as well.  What a start to the day!  Can't sleep because of the heat, so get up and read about the world going to shit.  

More coffee, please! 

Somedays I think it be better to just stay in my own little bubble like a lot of people I know. They seem happy. Uninformed but happy. 

Honestly thats the way to go...imagine thinking death is imminent and the world is trash...well then you be me...and it suxxxxxxx.

I can't do it though. It's horrible for my anxiety but I just can't turn away. I do think that the world is a better place than we give it credit for. Truly believe that the vast majority of people are good, sometimes we just need to be reminded of how to treat others. If we treated others the way we want to be treated society we function a lot better than it does currently.  I make a conscious effort to live that way and it makes a big difference for me.

What’s the saying, most people are nice but not kind? They are mostly concerned with themselves and their own circle of family/friends? 

The one thing we can do to help the planet is end coal now. But try having that discussion with a Republican voter or an independent. 

Though that would be a help, I don't think the issue is that simple.  We still have factory farming, global shipping, the decimation of the rainforest, over fishing, ocean pollution etc.  It is a very interconnected ecosystem of destruction and if we just take one link out of the web without greatly rethinking how to make our society more sustainable we will at best just kick the can down the road.

Aren't ships a good method of shipping?  Lose the next day air stuff and there you go.

I wonder how long it would take people to get used to the time lag?  My step daughter lives in Ketchikan, Alaska and a lot of what gets sent there goes by ship and then barge.   They're used to it, but most of us would no be.  Stuff takes a long time to get there.  True, it is an isolated town, but the idea of shipping by slow boat or train (fine with me) would not go over well with a big percentage of the population.

All that said, I agree with the idea.  When I was a kid and you ordered something by mail, most often the order slip would say "Please allow six weeks for delivery."  We did it then, we could do it and get used to it again.  I hope, anyway!

When I worked in Alaska yes, everything took time.  Even mail.  

"It's a geological oddity.  2 weeks from everywhere!" to quote the movie Oh Brother! Where art though?

As a kid I would get 2 day ground shipping for bike parts but it always came 2 weeks to a month later, lol.  It was painful and yes, we do live in a world of "need it now" but since the pandemic that clock has been reset.  I can't get anything in a day anymore so maybe we could get used to that?

I am pre-planning better at work for items.  It's not available for next day anymore.

Maybe, just maybe, we can adapt to that?

tempo_n_groove

Stove said:

Zod said:

I think the problem with temperature rising, is what the climate changes to do land being used for agriculture.

What happen's if the California drought doesn't end, and the farmers use up all the groundwater kind of thing (which is even hard to replenish than the lakes).    As the climate changes will we still have enough land/resources to keep growing food at the rates we do.

That's one of my biggest concerns with climate change, is land changing in this way.   Land no longer being able to support agriculture.

tbf...California is in a drought every other year.... 

Since 2006 or 2008?

The Hoover dam has been in a decline since 2003?

An area called Echo Bay I would go to is now dry land.

They are finding bodies that were dumped in the 70's from receding water lines at Salt Lake.

Tetu Lake in 2010 was 15 feet lower than what it normally was, not sure if it has recovered?

Jamaica bay, despite conservation efforts, the marsh lands continue to diminish.

These are areas I have visited and noticed the changes.  I'm sure there is more if I can think of them.  Not sure what the Kern river and Lake Isabella look like?  In 95 they had a drought and tops of old houses wee present.  They were there before the lake was filled.  

brianlux

tempo_n_groove said:

brianlux said:

tempo_n_groove said:

static111 said:

Lerxst1992 said:

jhager79 said:

Stove said:

jhager79 said:

brianlux said:

jhager79 said:

I might be the only one who thinks like this but this feels like a week that could change the world in an unaimagined way.  One of those weeks/ days that would be looked at as when things happened that didn't need to happen that set us on course for disaster. 

I hear you, J.  Reading the NY Times this morning put me in that frame of mind as well.  What a start to the day!  Can't sleep because of the heat, so get up and read about the world going to shit.  

More coffee, please! 

Somedays I think it be better to just stay in my own little bubble like a lot of people I know. They seem happy. Uninformed but happy. 

Honestly thats the way to go...imagine thinking death is imminent and the world is trash...well then you be me...and it suxxxxxxx.

I can't do it though. It's horrible for my anxiety but I just can't turn away. I do think that the world is a better place than we give it credit for. Truly believe that the vast majority of people are good, sometimes we just need to be reminded of how to treat others. If we treated others the way we want to be treated society we function a lot better than it does currently.  I make a conscious effort to live that way and it makes a big difference for me.

What’s the saying, most people are nice but not kind? They are mostly concerned with themselves and their own circle of family/friends? 

The one thing we can do to help the planet is end coal now. But try having that discussion with a Republican voter or an independent. 

Though that would be a help, I don't think the issue is that simple.  We still have factory farming, global shipping, the decimation of the rainforest, over fishing, ocean pollution etc.  It is a very interconnected ecosystem of destruction and if we just take one link out of the web without greatly rethinking how to make our society more sustainable we will at best just kick the can down the road.

Aren't ships a good method of shipping?  Lose the next day air stuff and there you go.

I wonder how long it would take people to get used to the time lag?  My step daughter lives in Ketchikan, Alaska and a lot of what gets sent there goes by ship and then barge.   They're used to it, but most of us would no be.  Stuff takes a long time to get there.  True, it is an isolated town, but the idea of shipping by slow boat or train (fine with me) would not go over well with a big percentage of the population.

All that said, I agree with the idea.  When I was a kid and you ordered something by mail, most often the order slip would say "Please allow six weeks for delivery."  We did it then, we could do it and get used to it again.  I hope, anyway!

When I worked in Alaska yes, everything took time.  Even mail.  

"It's a geological oddity.  2 weeks from everywhere!" to quote the movie Oh Brother! Where art though?

As a kid I would get 2 day ground shipping for bike parts but it always came 2 weeks to a month later, lol.  It was painful and yes, we do live in a world of "need it now" but since the pandemic that clock has been reset.  I can't get anything in a day anymore so maybe we could get used to that?

I am pre-planning better at work for items.  It's not available for next day anymore.

Maybe, just maybe, we can adapt to that?

Well said! 
Yeah, I think it would do us and the world some good to learn to not expect everything to show up at (a metaphorical) snap of the fingers.  A little delayed gratification for the betterment of the world would be very helpful.

HughFreakingDillon

jhager79 said:

dankind said:

tempo_n_groove said:

jhager79 said:

mace1229 said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

mace1229 said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

two parents with two kids is a ratio of 1:1. we'd probably be better off to lessen our population, but currently, I've read, it's still sustainable at the current level (the amount of food american throws out could feed the planet, for example). it's just not sustainable at the current rate of population growth. 

I know we are wasteful with food, but no way can the food we throw out feed the planet. We’re only 1/20th of the planet. We don’t throw out enough to feed 20 times our population. I’d believe we throw out enough to feed all the homeless and those without here, but not the world.
I agree with the 1:1 ratio. Problem is I don’t think we could enforce anything like that. I remember growing up as a kid and all the negative talk towards China for doing it. It wouldn’t fly here until it was already too late.

correct, it was an exaggeration and I should have qualified it as such. the real number is just as disturbing: 

According to the U.N. Environment Programme, industrialized countries in North America, Europe and Asia collectively waste 222 million tons of food each year. In contrast, countries in sub-Saharan Africa produce 230 million tons of food each year. That means sub-Saharan Africa’s food output is practically equal to the amount of food wasted by the world’s richest countries. 

source: https://www.wfpusa.org/articles/8-facts-to-know-about-food-waste-and-hunger/#:~:text=3) 30-40% of,food is damaged or spoiled

That number actually isn’t surprising to me. NA, Europe and Asia is the majority of the world. I’m not surprised the food we all collectively waste could feed sub-Saharan Africa.

I work in a grocery store and the amount of food waste through pure laziness is staggering. The amount thrown out from the store I work at alone in one week could easily feed 1000 people a week.

Sheriff Joe Arpajo would take that food and feed the inmates to save the state money.

Growing up on a farm in Florida, we always got truckloads of expired Winn Dixie or Piggly Wiggly produce for our livestock, mainly pigs. That's not to say that the family didn't also help ourselves to whatever still looked good enough to eat, but we couldn't let them know that we might eat it; it was animal-grade at that point or something, I guess.

The folks using our farm in Vermont have a similar deal with the Shaw's up there, I think.

We have a similar agreement with local farmers. Most of the products I'm referring to unfortunately aren't past code, but not visually appealing or slightly marked. Bruised apples, spotted cauliflower, ripped exterior packaging etc. All perfectly fine food thrown away because of laziness. For instance last month we had 80 cases of 8 strawberries thrown away because of one or two berries had sweaters instead of removing the off berries they all got thrown down the compactor. If the average person only knew.

I see this on a micro level all the time, with friends that have the money and are just careless with what's in their fridge or in their pantry and don't care. We were staying with friends in vancouver, for example, and the wife just comes home with loaves of bread every day, throws them on the pile on the counter. We were there 5 days. I threw out about 3 loaves a day just looking for something that wasn't completely moldy. Same situation in their fridge. it's disgusting. 

Cropduster-80

HughFreakingDillon said:

jhager79 said:

dankind said:

tempo_n_groove said:

jhager79 said:

mace1229 said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

mace1229 said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

two parents with two kids is a ratio of 1:1. we'd probably be better off to lessen our population, but currently, I've read, it's still sustainable at the current level (the amount of food american throws out could feed the planet, for example). it's just not sustainable at the current rate of population growth. 

I know we are wasteful with food, but no way can the food we throw out feed the planet. We’re only 1/20th of the planet. We don’t throw out enough to feed 20 times our population. I’d believe we throw out enough to feed all the homeless and those without here, but not the world.
I agree with the 1:1 ratio. Problem is I don’t think we could enforce anything like that. I remember growing up as a kid and all the negative talk towards China for doing it. It wouldn’t fly here until it was already too late.

correct, it was an exaggeration and I should have qualified it as such. the real number is just as disturbing: 

According to the U.N. Environment Programme, industrialized countries in North America, Europe and Asia collectively waste 222 million tons of food each year. In contrast, countries in sub-Saharan Africa produce 230 million tons of food each year. That means sub-Saharan Africa’s food output is practically equal to the amount of food wasted by the world’s richest countries. 

source: https://www.wfpusa.org/articles/8-facts-to-know-about-food-waste-and-hunger/#:~:text=3) 30-40% of,food is damaged or spoiled

That number actually isn’t surprising to me. NA, Europe and Asia is the majority of the world. I’m not surprised the food we all collectively waste could feed sub-Saharan Africa.

I work in a grocery store and the amount of food waste through pure laziness is staggering. The amount thrown out from the store I work at alone in one week could easily feed 1000 people a week.

Sheriff Joe Arpajo would take that food and feed the inmates to save the state money.

Growing up on a farm in Florida, we always got truckloads of expired Winn Dixie or Piggly Wiggly produce for our livestock, mainly pigs. That's not to say that the family didn't also help ourselves to whatever still looked good enough to eat, but we couldn't let them know that we might eat it; it was animal-grade at that point or something, I guess.

The folks using our farm in Vermont have a similar deal with the Shaw's up there, I think.

We have a similar agreement with local farmers. Most of the products I'm referring to unfortunately aren't past code, but not visually appealing or slightly marked. Bruised apples, spotted cauliflower, ripped exterior packaging etc. All perfectly fine food thrown away because of laziness. For instance last month we had 80 cases of 8 strawberries thrown away because of one or two berries had sweaters instead of removing the off berries they all got thrown down the compactor. If the average person only knew.

I see this on a micro level all the time, with friends that have the money and are just careless with what's in their fridge or in their pantry and don't care. We were staying with friends in vancouver, for example, and the wife just comes home with loaves of bread every day, throws them on the pile on the counter. We were there 5 days. I threw out about 3 loaves a day just looking for something that wasn't completely moldy. Same situation in their fridge. it's disgusting. 

If we can find a solution to the amount of food waste 3 small kids generate I’m all ears.

kids are great, but I’ve never wasted so much food in my life.  At least since I was a kid