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Capitalism, The Fed and Economic Policy

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    My place I rent would be DOUBLE what it is if I were to look for a new place.

    Vehicle prices still remain high because the companies know people are still buying.

    Housing sales have been stalling because unless you have cash or a huge down payment you can't afford one.

    My grocery bills are 50% more.

    My raises have not kept up with these trends.

    So yeah, the economy is doing something but not for me.
  • Options
    static111static111 Posts: 4,889
    My place I rent would be DOUBLE what it is if I were to look for a new place.

    Vehicle prices still remain high because the companies know people are still buying.

    Housing sales have been stalling because unless you have cash or a huge down payment you can't afford one.

    My grocery bills are 50% more.

    My raises have not kept up with these trends.

    So yeah, the economy is doing something but not for me.
    It's great for the people at the top though!
    Scio me nihil scire

    There are no kings inside the gates of eden
  • Options
    static111 said:
    My place I rent would be DOUBLE what it is if I were to look for a new place.

    Vehicle prices still remain high because the companies know people are still buying.

    Housing sales have been stalling because unless you have cash or a huge down payment you can't afford one.

    My grocery bills are 50% more.

    My raises have not kept up with these trends.

    So yeah, the economy is doing something but not for me.
    It's great for the people at the top though!
    I've mentioned this before about housing/rent and the corporations taking that market over.  There is a company called "Fairfield" that has been buying up houses and complexes and in doing so driving up the prices which leads others too follow suit or they control a good part of the market.

    They want to see a return on their investment so hiking up the pricing is the best thing to do.

    It is no longer cheaper to rent than own.  I am in a somewhat good place for rent so far.
  • Options
    static111static111 Posts: 4,889
    static111 said:
    My place I rent would be DOUBLE what it is if I were to look for a new place.

    Vehicle prices still remain high because the companies know people are still buying.

    Housing sales have been stalling because unless you have cash or a huge down payment you can't afford one.

    My grocery bills are 50% more.

    My raises have not kept up with these trends.

    So yeah, the economy is doing something but not for me.
    It's great for the people at the top though!
    I've mentioned this before about housing/rent and the corporations taking that market over.  There is a company called "Fairfield" that has been buying up houses and complexes and in doing so driving up the prices which leads others too follow suit or they control a good part of the market.

    They want to see a return on their investment so hiking up the pricing is the best thing to do.

    It is no longer cheaper to rent than own.  I am in a somewhat good place for rent so far.
    Yeah we were looking at buying and with todays prices and interest rates it would cost 1000 to 2000 more per month than our current rent.  Crazy times.  Now we are looking at moving elsewhere, Austin is just too expensive but we have found some decent midsize cities that still have houses we consider affordable.  We will just have to see what the future brings.   One thing is for sure the price tag of the American Dream is much higher than it was just a generation or two ago.
    Scio me nihil scire

    There are no kings inside the gates of eden
  • Options
    mrussel1mrussel1 Posts: 28,621
    static111 said:
    static111 said:
    My place I rent would be DOUBLE what it is if I were to look for a new place.

    Vehicle prices still remain high because the companies know people are still buying.

    Housing sales have been stalling because unless you have cash or a huge down payment you can't afford one.

    My grocery bills are 50% more.

    My raises have not kept up with these trends.

    So yeah, the economy is doing something but not for me.
    It's great for the people at the top though!
    I've mentioned this before about housing/rent and the corporations taking that market over.  There is a company called "Fairfield" that has been buying up houses and complexes and in doing so driving up the prices which leads others too follow suit or they control a good part of the market.

    They want to see a return on their investment so hiking up the pricing is the best thing to do.

    It is no longer cheaper to rent than own.  I am in a somewhat good place for rent so far.
    Yeah we were looking at buying and with todays prices and interest rates it would cost 1000 to 2000 more per month than our current rent.  Crazy times.  Now we are looking at moving elsewhere, Austin is just too expensive but we have found some decent midsize cities that still have houses we consider affordable.  We will just have to see what the future brings.   One thing is for sure the price tag of the American Dream is much higher than it was just a generation or two ago.
    Come to Richmond! We have reasonable prices, reasonable weather and reasonable politics.  You can be normal here.  
  • Options
    mrussel1 said:
    static111 said:
    static111 said:
    My place I rent would be DOUBLE what it is if I were to look for a new place.

    Vehicle prices still remain high because the companies know people are still buying.

    Housing sales have been stalling because unless you have cash or a huge down payment you can't afford one.

    My grocery bills are 50% more.

    My raises have not kept up with these trends.

    So yeah, the economy is doing something but not for me.
    It's great for the people at the top though!
    I've mentioned this before about housing/rent and the corporations taking that market over.  There is a company called "Fairfield" that has been buying up houses and complexes and in doing so driving up the prices which leads others too follow suit or they control a good part of the market.

    They want to see a return on their investment so hiking up the pricing is the best thing to do.

    It is no longer cheaper to rent than own.  I am in a somewhat good place for rent so far.
    Yeah we were looking at buying and with todays prices and interest rates it would cost 1000 to 2000 more per month than our current rent.  Crazy times.  Now we are looking at moving elsewhere, Austin is just too expensive but we have found some decent midsize cities that still have houses we consider affordable.  We will just have to see what the future brings.   One thing is for sure the price tag of the American Dream is much higher than it was just a generation or two ago.
    Come to Richmond! We have reasonable prices, reasonable weather and reasonable politics.  You can be normal here.  
    I think about getting a doublewide and 50 acres out on a hill in PA sometimes...
  • Options
    static111static111 Posts: 4,889
    mrussel1 said:
    static111 said:
    static111 said:
    My place I rent would be DOUBLE what it is if I were to look for a new place.

    Vehicle prices still remain high because the companies know people are still buying.

    Housing sales have been stalling because unless you have cash or a huge down payment you can't afford one.

    My grocery bills are 50% more.

    My raises have not kept up with these trends.

    So yeah, the economy is doing something but not for me.
    It's great for the people at the top though!
    I've mentioned this before about housing/rent and the corporations taking that market over.  There is a company called "Fairfield" that has been buying up houses and complexes and in doing so driving up the prices which leads others too follow suit or they control a good part of the market.

    They want to see a return on their investment so hiking up the pricing is the best thing to do.

    It is no longer cheaper to rent than own.  I am in a somewhat good place for rent so far.
    Yeah we were looking at buying and with todays prices and interest rates it would cost 1000 to 2000 more per month than our current rent.  Crazy times.  Now we are looking at moving elsewhere, Austin is just too expensive but we have found some decent midsize cities that still have houses we consider affordable.  We will just have to see what the future brings.   One thing is for sure the price tag of the American Dream is much higher than it was just a generation or two ago.
    Come to Richmond! We have reasonable prices, reasonable weather and reasonable politics.  You can be normal here.  
    We are actually looking at VA, KY and TN.  Sure they aren't perfect and none holds the Paris of the US but they all have some decent cities with affordable houses and good schools.
    Scio me nihil scire

    There are no kings inside the gates of eden
  • Options
    static111 said:
    mrussel1 said:
    static111 said:
    static111 said:
    My place I rent would be DOUBLE what it is if I were to look for a new place.

    Vehicle prices still remain high because the companies know people are still buying.

    Housing sales have been stalling because unless you have cash or a huge down payment you can't afford one.

    My grocery bills are 50% more.

    My raises have not kept up with these trends.

    So yeah, the economy is doing something but not for me.
    It's great for the people at the top though!
    I've mentioned this before about housing/rent and the corporations taking that market over.  There is a company called "Fairfield" that has been buying up houses and complexes and in doing so driving up the prices which leads others too follow suit or they control a good part of the market.

    They want to see a return on their investment so hiking up the pricing is the best thing to do.

    It is no longer cheaper to rent than own.  I am in a somewhat good place for rent so far.
    Yeah we were looking at buying and with todays prices and interest rates it would cost 1000 to 2000 more per month than our current rent.  Crazy times.  Now we are looking at moving elsewhere, Austin is just too expensive but we have found some decent midsize cities that still have houses we consider affordable.  We will just have to see what the future brings.   One thing is for sure the price tag of the American Dream is much higher than it was just a generation or two ago.
    Come to Richmond! We have reasonable prices, reasonable weather and reasonable politics.  You can be normal here.  
    We are actually looking at VA, KY and TN.  Sure they aren't perfect and none holds the Paris of the US but they all have some decent cities with affordable houses and good schools.
    This is kind of the big purge where people leave the big democratic run states and head out to others.

    It plays right into the republicans playbook.  Interesting how they come to these things huh?
  • Options
    Jearlpam0925Jearlpam0925 Deep South Philly Posts: 16,766
    How does this play into the R's hands? If anything this would dilute the idea of R/D-majority areas. If anything it would make Republican-majorities shrink in those areas.

    Regardless, people have been leaving the boonies for major metro/dense/urban areas for a while now. More than 80% of the country lives in what would be considered an urban environment. By 2050 it is projected to be 90%.
  • Options
    How does this play into the R's hands? If anything this would dilute the idea of R/D-majority areas. If anything it would make Republican-majorities shrink in those areas.

    Regardless, people have been leaving the boonies for major metro/dense/urban areas for a while now. More than 80% of the country lives in what would be considered an urban environment. By 2050 it is projected to be 90%.
    Completely opposite of what I was saying.  People are leaving big city and Dem states to go to other smaller less taxed states.  NY is one of them.

    Richmond though Dem I would consider a far cry from what we have here in NY and their outlying cities are more conservative.  Prices are much much cheaper than here too.
  • Options
    static111static111 Posts: 4,889
    static111 said:
    mrussel1 said:
    static111 said:
    static111 said:
    My place I rent would be DOUBLE what it is if I were to look for a new place.

    Vehicle prices still remain high because the companies know people are still buying.

    Housing sales have been stalling because unless you have cash or a huge down payment you can't afford one.

    My grocery bills are 50% more.

    My raises have not kept up with these trends.

    So yeah, the economy is doing something but not for me.
    It's great for the people at the top though!
    I've mentioned this before about housing/rent and the corporations taking that market over.  There is a company called "Fairfield" that has been buying up houses and complexes and in doing so driving up the prices which leads others too follow suit or they control a good part of the market.

    They want to see a return on their investment so hiking up the pricing is the best thing to do.

    It is no longer cheaper to rent than own.  I am in a somewhat good place for rent so far.
    Yeah we were looking at buying and with todays prices and interest rates it would cost 1000 to 2000 more per month than our current rent.  Crazy times.  Now we are looking at moving elsewhere, Austin is just too expensive but we have found some decent midsize cities that still have houses we consider affordable.  We will just have to see what the future brings.   One thing is for sure the price tag of the American Dream is much higher than it was just a generation or two ago.
    Come to Richmond! We have reasonable prices, reasonable weather and reasonable politics.  You can be normal here.  
    We are actually looking at VA, KY and TN.  Sure they aren't perfect and none holds the Paris of the US but they all have some decent cities with affordable houses and good schools.
    This is kind of the big purge where people leave the big democratic run states and head out to others.

    It plays right into the republicans playbook.  Interesting how they come to these things huh?
    I move where I can afford to live...Simple as that for me.  If Austin was affordable we would make plans to stay long term.  I don't think it has anything to do with who is in charge politically.  If Austin was hard red, but affordable I would stay, if it was still expensive as hell we would leave.
    Scio me nihil scire

    There are no kings inside the gates of eden
  • Options
    mrussel1mrussel1 Posts: 28,621
    static111 said:
    static111 said:
    mrussel1 said:
    static111 said:
    static111 said:
    My place I rent would be DOUBLE what it is if I were to look for a new place.

    Vehicle prices still remain high because the companies know people are still buying.

    Housing sales have been stalling because unless you have cash or a huge down payment you can't afford one.

    My grocery bills are 50% more.

    My raises have not kept up with these trends.

    So yeah, the economy is doing something but not for me.
    It's great for the people at the top though!
    I've mentioned this before about housing/rent and the corporations taking that market over.  There is a company called "Fairfield" that has been buying up houses and complexes and in doing so driving up the prices which leads others too follow suit or they control a good part of the market.

    They want to see a return on their investment so hiking up the pricing is the best thing to do.

    It is no longer cheaper to rent than own.  I am in a somewhat good place for rent so far.
    Yeah we were looking at buying and with todays prices and interest rates it would cost 1000 to 2000 more per month than our current rent.  Crazy times.  Now we are looking at moving elsewhere, Austin is just too expensive but we have found some decent midsize cities that still have houses we consider affordable.  We will just have to see what the future brings.   One thing is for sure the price tag of the American Dream is much higher than it was just a generation or two ago.
    Come to Richmond! We have reasonable prices, reasonable weather and reasonable politics.  You can be normal here.  
    We are actually looking at VA, KY and TN.  Sure they aren't perfect and none holds the Paris of the US but they all have some decent cities with affordable houses and good schools.
    This is kind of the big purge where people leave the big democratic run states and head out to others.

    It plays right into the republicans playbook.  Interesting how they come to these things huh?
    I move where I can afford to live...Simple as that for me.  If Austin was affordable we would make plans to stay long term.  I don't think it has anything to do with who is in charge politically.  If Austin was hard red, but affordable I would stay, if it was still expensive as hell we would leave.
    If you need any advice or consult on Virginia,  feel free to ask.  Great schools and quality of life. 
  • Options
    Jearlpam0925Jearlpam0925 Deep South Philly Posts: 16,766
    "It plays right into the republicans playbook."

    And it's not like this kind of migration is a bad thing. I also personally think it's short-term. Big Cities, and their draw as a major economic center, will always be there. And looking even further down the road imo the Sun Belt migration has been great but the sheer temp increases, - and ensuing lack of resources due to climate change - will drive people out of those areas again. I feel like Minnesota will be a nice sweet spot come another 50 years from now. And I remember Tulsa was incentivizing people to move there. But there's no fucking way I'd move to Tulsa.

    At the end of the day there's only one (two, ok actually three) answer(s) to the housing crisis - which is by far been the greatest economic concern even pre-Covid: 1) there just needs to be a new New Deal-type home building program put into place to drastically increase supply 2) unfuck the idea of zoning laws in this country 3) demographics - unfortunately, if 1 & 2 aren't done then 3 will be waiting for Boomers to die.
  • Options
    static111static111 Posts: 4,889
    mrussel1 said:
    static111 said:
    static111 said:
    mrussel1 said:
    static111 said:
    static111 said:
    My place I rent would be DOUBLE what it is if I were to look for a new place.

    Vehicle prices still remain high because the companies know people are still buying.

    Housing sales have been stalling because unless you have cash or a huge down payment you can't afford one.

    My grocery bills are 50% more.

    My raises have not kept up with these trends.

    So yeah, the economy is doing something but not for me.
    It's great for the people at the top though!
    I've mentioned this before about housing/rent and the corporations taking that market over.  There is a company called "Fairfield" that has been buying up houses and complexes and in doing so driving up the prices which leads others too follow suit or they control a good part of the market.

    They want to see a return on their investment so hiking up the pricing is the best thing to do.

    It is no longer cheaper to rent than own.  I am in a somewhat good place for rent so far.
    Yeah we were looking at buying and with todays prices and interest rates it would cost 1000 to 2000 more per month than our current rent.  Crazy times.  Now we are looking at moving elsewhere, Austin is just too expensive but we have found some decent midsize cities that still have houses we consider affordable.  We will just have to see what the future brings.   One thing is for sure the price tag of the American Dream is much higher than it was just a generation or two ago.
    Come to Richmond! We have reasonable prices, reasonable weather and reasonable politics.  You can be normal here.  
    We are actually looking at VA, KY and TN.  Sure they aren't perfect and none holds the Paris of the US but they all have some decent cities with affordable houses and good schools.
    This is kind of the big purge where people leave the big democratic run states and head out to others.

    It plays right into the republicans playbook.  Interesting how they come to these things huh?
    I move where I can afford to live...Simple as that for me.  If Austin was affordable we would make plans to stay long term.  I don't think it has anything to do with who is in charge politically.  If Austin was hard red, but affordable I would stay, if it was still expensive as hell we would leave.
    If you need any advice or consult on Virginia,  feel free to ask.  Great schools and quality of life. 
    We just did a cursory search on Zillow after your suggestion...It was unbelievable.  Nice affordable houses highly rated schools. Trees everywhere! etc.  Hopefully the secret doesn't get out before we have a chance to check the place out in person and decide where to purchase.
    Scio me nihil scire

    There are no kings inside the gates of eden
  • Options
    mickeyratmickeyrat up my ass, like Chadwick was up his Posts: 35,673
    "It plays right into the republicans playbook."

    And it's not like this kind of migration is a bad thing. I also personally think it's short-term. Big Cities, and their draw as a major economic center, will always be there. And looking even further down the road imo the Sun Belt migration has been great but the sheer temp increases, - and ensuing lack of resources due to climate change - will drive people out of those areas again. I feel like Minnesota will be a nice sweet spot come another 50 years from now. And I remember Tulsa was incentivizing people to move there. But there's no fucking way I'd move to Tulsa.

    At the end of the day there's only one (two, ok actually three) answer(s) to the housing crisis - which is by far been the greatest economic concern even pre-Covid: 1) there just needs to be a new New Deal-type home building program put into place to drastically increase supply 2) unfuck the idea of zoning laws in this country 3) demographics - unfortunately, if 1 & 2 aren't done then 3 will be waiting for Boomers to die.

    4. bar invetors groups from this sector.
    _____________________________________SIGNATURE________________________________________________

    Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
    you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
    memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
    another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
  • Options
    Jearlpam0925Jearlpam0925 Deep South Philly Posts: 16,766
    mickeyrat said:
    "It plays right into the republicans playbook."

    And it's not like this kind of migration is a bad thing. I also personally think it's short-term. Big Cities, and their draw as a major economic center, will always be there. And looking even further down the road imo the Sun Belt migration has been great but the sheer temp increases, - and ensuing lack of resources due to climate change - will drive people out of those areas again. I feel like Minnesota will be a nice sweet spot come another 50 years from now. And I remember Tulsa was incentivizing people to move there. But there's no fucking way I'd move to Tulsa.

    At the end of the day there's only one (two, ok actually three) answer(s) to the housing crisis - which is by far been the greatest economic concern even pre-Covid: 1) there just needs to be a new New Deal-type home building program put into place to drastically increase supply 2) unfuck the idea of zoning laws in this country 3) demographics - unfortunately, if 1 & 2 aren't done then 3 will be waiting for Boomers to die.

    4. bar invetors groups from this sector.
    I agree, but at the same time there's a logic there that needs to go further, because I really don't think that's the issue as much as a bug/feature (depending on who you talk to) of the system in place.

    Because the logic is either - can LLC's/commercial businesses own real estate? Because if so, then why can't investors?

    What I'm getting at is investors will only put their money in what has value/scarcity. If you build more of it, then the interest in investing weakens.

    And this to me speaks to a larger issue in this country that home ownership = wealth/equity. And as long as that is always the view then there's always going to be a problem.
  • Options
    "It plays right into the republicans playbook."

    And it's not like this kind of migration is a bad thing. I also personally think it's short-term. Big Cities, and their draw as a major economic center, will always be there. And looking even further down the road imo the Sun Belt migration has been great but the sheer temp increases, - and ensuing lack of resources due to climate change - will drive people out of those areas again. I feel like Minnesota will be a nice sweet spot come another 50 years from now. And I remember Tulsa was incentivizing people to move there. But there's no fucking way I'd move to Tulsa.

    At the end of the day there's only one (two, ok actually three) answer(s) to the housing crisis - which is by far been the greatest economic concern even pre-Covid: 1) there just needs to be a new New Deal-type home building program put into place to drastically increase supply 2) unfuck the idea of zoning laws in this country 3) demographics - unfortunately, if 1 & 2 aren't done then 3 will be waiting for Boomers to die.
    I'm trying to show how what we are describing can be used as a focal point, anywho...

    Tulsa a destination?  Not on your fucking life.  I did Elk City for a few months... Nope.

    Minnesota?  50 years?  Yeah if climate change gets that bad...

    For NY what needs to change is some serious government intervention.  Make some sort of rule about corporations gobbling up real-estate.

    We need to make new houses but all I see are housing complexes going up and renting not owning.  Every new development is a multi level renter that is stupidly priced.

    Taxes.  We need cheaper taxes but need more people in the system to help get that cost down.  See above...

    Here in NYC the buildings are empty.  No shit.  Empty.  Multiple floors in buildings.  Hudson Yards project? Luxury apartments that won't fill.  It was a great project for construction workers though. We need places for affordable housing not just for the rich that stay empty.

    You mention zoning.  That can be a blessing and a curse depending on what side of it you live on.  There was a local bar here that thrived for years.  They built a housing complex right next to it and killed it's nightlife.  Great for the residents so they can sleep and relax with no noise but another business destroyed because they decided to change the land adjacent and rezone it.
  • Options
    mickeyrat said:
    "It plays right into the republicans playbook."

    And it's not like this kind of migration is a bad thing. I also personally think it's short-term. Big Cities, and their draw as a major economic center, will always be there. And looking even further down the road imo the Sun Belt migration has been great but the sheer temp increases, - and ensuing lack of resources due to climate change - will drive people out of those areas again. I feel like Minnesota will be a nice sweet spot come another 50 years from now. And I remember Tulsa was incentivizing people to move there. But there's no fucking way I'd move to Tulsa.

    At the end of the day there's only one (two, ok actually three) answer(s) to the housing crisis - which is by far been the greatest economic concern even pre-Covid: 1) there just needs to be a new New Deal-type home building program put into place to drastically increase supply 2) unfuck the idea of zoning laws in this country 3) demographics - unfortunately, if 1 & 2 aren't done then 3 will be waiting for Boomers to die.

    4. bar invetors groups from this sector.
    OMG yes.  I've been screaming about this. 100%!!!

    mickeyrat said:
    "It plays right into the republicans playbook."

    And it's not like this kind of migration is a bad thing. I also personally think it's short-term. Big Cities, and their draw as a major economic center, will always be there. And looking even further down the road imo the Sun Belt migration has been great but the sheer temp increases, - and ensuing lack of resources due to climate change - will drive people out of those areas again. I feel like Minnesota will be a nice sweet spot come another 50 years from now. And I remember Tulsa was incentivizing people to move there. But there's no fucking way I'd move to Tulsa.

    At the end of the day there's only one (two, ok actually three) answer(s) to the housing crisis - which is by far been the greatest economic concern even pre-Covid: 1) there just needs to be a new New Deal-type home building program put into place to drastically increase supply 2) unfuck the idea of zoning laws in this country 3) demographics - unfortunately, if 1 & 2 aren't done then 3 will be waiting for Boomers to die.

    4. bar invetors groups from this sector.
    I agree, but at the same time there's a logic there that needs to go further, because I really don't think that's the issue as much as a bug/feature (depending on who you talk to) of the system in place.

    Because the logic is either - can LLC's/commercial businesses own real estate? Because if so, then why can't investors?

    What I'm getting at is investors will only put their money in what has value/scarcity. If you build more of it, then the interest in investing weakens.

    And this to me speaks to a larger issue in this country that home ownership = wealth/equity. And as long as that is always the view then there's always going to be a problem.
    Investors want a return on that dollar.  How do you get it?  Control inventory and pricing.  I mentioned this earlier above and before.
  • Options
    Jearlpam0925Jearlpam0925 Deep South Philly Posts: 16,766
    edited September 2023
    Roughly 60-70% of rentals are owned by individual investors, and roughly the remaining 30-40% is owned by institutional investors. Which has been increasing for sure. But again, I can't stress enough in the order of the 4 things we listed above it's not at the top of the list imo.

    #1 by a distant margin is increasing supply. But the elephant in the room no one wants to talk about is increasing supply will drop housing prices. Which a lot of homeowners clutch their pearls over.


    Post edited by Jearlpam0925 on
  • Options
    Roughly 60-70% of rentals are owned by individual investors, and roughly the remaining 30-40% is owned by institutional investors. Which has been increasing for sure. But again, I can't stress enough in the order of the 4 things we listed above it's not at the top of the list imo.

    #1 by a distant margin is increasing supply. But the elephant in the room no one wants to talk about is increasing supply will drop housing prices. Which a lot of homeowners clutch their pearls over.


    This was NY's biggest problem also.  Rental property instead of owning property.  You keep having rentals go up but no one can own anything.

    Hell if homes get cheaper so will taxes but then no equity means no home equity loans.

    More houses do need to be built and we need some of these older homes to be realistically priced.  A house that was lived in for 50 years by someone many times has had NOTHING done to it.  

    Big problem here.  You buy a house at market price then have to dump another 1-200K into it for it to be modern or livable.
  • Options
    Jearlpam0925Jearlpam0925 Deep South Philly Posts: 16,766
    edited September 2023
    Yeah exactly, because homeownership in general is absolutely ridiculously expensive right now. Rate are increasing (generally) like the Fed wanted, and rates and price have an inverse relationship. Yet, prices keep going up. And that's not a matter of rates & prices, that's a matter of supply & demand. Demand high + Supply low = Price high (and higher). So there's really only one thing to do: increase the supply.

    Then throw in the fact that those locked into low interest rates (people like me) or those with no note on their homes (generally boomers) aren't going anywhere. At least boomers can result in a windfall of wealth and then downsize. But I'm not giving up my 4 bedroom, 3 bath, house in the city with a 3% rate for a family of four just to gain equity to put it down on a shittier house with at least twice the mortgage payment based on the rate alone.

    I know what will "fix" the situation, and it will generally make my equity on my home take a hit, but I'm totally ok with that. I just don't think most people will be ok with that. It (home ownership) is genuinely a club (and also a scam and racket at the same time) that I wish more people could join more easily.
    Post edited by Jearlpam0925 on
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    Lerxst1992Lerxst1992 Posts: 6,111
    static111 said:
    static111 said:
    My place I rent would be DOUBLE what it is if I were to look for a new place.

    Vehicle prices still remain high because the companies know people are still buying.

    Housing sales have been stalling because unless you have cash or a huge down payment you can't afford one.

    My grocery bills are 50% more.

    My raises have not kept up with these trends.

    So yeah, the economy is doing something but not for me.
    It's great for the people at the top though!
    I've mentioned this before about housing/rent and the corporations taking that market over.  There is a company called "Fairfield" that has been buying up houses and complexes and in doing so driving up the prices which leads others too follow suit or they control a good part of the market.

    They want to see a return on their investment so hiking up the pricing is the best thing to do.

    It is no longer cheaper to rent than own.  I am in a somewhat good place for rent so far.
    Yeah we were looking at buying and with todays prices and interest rates it would cost 1000 to 2000 more per month than our current rent.  Crazy times.  Now we are looking at moving elsewhere, Austin is just too expensive but we have found some decent midsize cities that still have houses we consider affordable.  We will just have to see what the future brings.   One thing is for sure the price tag of the American Dream is much higher than it was just a generation or two ago.

    Not sure that’s true. It’s bad now but it was also bad back then.

    in the NY region, housing prices tripled from mid 70s to late 80s
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    static111static111 Posts: 4,889
    static111 said:
    static111 said:
    My place I rent would be DOUBLE what it is if I were to look for a new place.

    Vehicle prices still remain high because the companies know people are still buying.

    Housing sales have been stalling because unless you have cash or a huge down payment you can't afford one.

    My grocery bills are 50% more.

    My raises have not kept up with these trends.

    So yeah, the economy is doing something but not for me.
    It's great for the people at the top though!
    I've mentioned this before about housing/rent and the corporations taking that market over.  There is a company called "Fairfield" that has been buying up houses and complexes and in doing so driving up the prices which leads others too follow suit or they control a good part of the market.

    They want to see a return on their investment so hiking up the pricing is the best thing to do.

    It is no longer cheaper to rent than own.  I am in a somewhat good place for rent so far.
    Yeah we were looking at buying and with todays prices and interest rates it would cost 1000 to 2000 more per month than our current rent.  Crazy times.  Now we are looking at moving elsewhere, Austin is just too expensive but we have found some decent midsize cities that still have houses we consider affordable.  We will just have to see what the future brings.   One thing is for sure the price tag of the American Dream is much higher than it was just a generation or two ago.

    Not sure that’s true. It’s bad now but it was also bad back then.

    in the NY region, housing prices tripled from mid 70s to late 80s
    I have heard that from my boomer mother the thing is a waitress and a construction worker could still get into a house even if the real estate values tripled.  The norm is now 300K plus houses.  20% down is 60K plus and rent is very expensive, although not as expensive as a mortgage.  How are normal people buying a house on average incomes?  Who is able to save 60K for the down payment on a starter home.

    My parents could afford a house in the 80's on the combined income of 60,000 as a waitress and a construction worker, in their 20's, and bought a house for 60,000 that is worth over 350,000 today, in rural MI. My wife and I make considerably more than that, however the down payment on an average house is almost as much or more than my parents paid for their house. Though this is my anecdotal experience, I'm sure people in the late 80's in NY had a much easier time buying and affording a house than NYers today.  


    Scio me nihil scire

    There are no kings inside the gates of eden
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    static111 said:
    static111 said:
    static111 said:
    My place I rent would be DOUBLE what it is if I were to look for a new place.

    Vehicle prices still remain high because the companies know people are still buying.

    Housing sales have been stalling because unless you have cash or a huge down payment you can't afford one.

    My grocery bills are 50% more.

    My raises have not kept up with these trends.

    So yeah, the economy is doing something but not for me.
    It's great for the people at the top though!
    I've mentioned this before about housing/rent and the corporations taking that market over.  There is a company called "Fairfield" that has been buying up houses and complexes and in doing so driving up the prices which leads others too follow suit or they control a good part of the market.

    They want to see a return on their investment so hiking up the pricing is the best thing to do.

    It is no longer cheaper to rent than own.  I am in a somewhat good place for rent so far.
    Yeah we were looking at buying and with todays prices and interest rates it would cost 1000 to 2000 more per month than our current rent.  Crazy times.  Now we are looking at moving elsewhere, Austin is just too expensive but we have found some decent midsize cities that still have houses we consider affordable.  We will just have to see what the future brings.   One thing is for sure the price tag of the American Dream is much higher than it was just a generation or two ago.

    Not sure that’s true. It’s bad now but it was also bad back then.

    in the NY region, housing prices tripled from mid 70s to late 80s
    I have heard that from my boomer mother the thing is a waitress and a construction worker could still get into a house even if the real estate values tripled.  The norm is now 300K plus houses.  20% down is 60K plus and rent is very expensive, although not as expensive as a mortgage.  How are normal people buying a house on average incomes?  Who is able to save 60K for the down payment on a starter home.

    My parents could afford a house in the 80's on the combined income of 60,000 as a waitress and a construction worker, in their 20's, and bought a house for 60,000 that is worth over 350,000 today, in rural MI. My wife and I make considerably more than that, however the down payment on an average house is almost as much or more than my parents paid for their house. Though this is my anecdotal experience, I'm sure people in the late 80's in NY had a much easier time buying and affording a house than NYers today.  


    Many banks have introductory mortgage rates and down payment terms for first time home buyers with steady employment and good credit. 5% down and once you have 20% equity, you can drop the PMI, lowering your monthly payment. Also, after several years of sucking it up, you can sometimes refinance with a lower rate that lowers your payment and term. Timing isn't everything but it kind of is. Start with saving 10% of post-tax, pre-tax preferably, income and forget about it. Don't touch it. Don't even get an ATM card for that account. Any extra money, put some or all in that account. In a few years, you'll have $20K for a down payment, a good credit and money management history and a bank will look at you favorably. Also, consider a two-family fixer upper. You fix up the rental unit first, get it rented, use the money to pay some or all of the mortgage, fix your unit up while you have a tenant and then convert it to a single family or become the next Jared Dear Boy by rinsing/repeating. Sweat equity + equity = wealth to borrow against or cash out, plus tax benefits. Its not impossible but seems so and may even be daunting at times. But it can be done.

    The house I grew up in cost $22,500 (interest rate hikes in late 70's early 80's, 16% nearly killed my old man) and sold for $242,500 23 years later. 
    09/15/1998 & 09/16/1998, Mansfield, MA; 08/29/00 08/30/00, Mansfield, MA; 07/02/03, 07/03/03, Mansfield, MA; 09/28/04, 09/29/04, Boston, MA; 09/22/05, Halifax, NS; 05/24/06, 05/25/06, Boston, MA; 07/22/06, 07/23/06, Gorge, WA; 06/27/2008, Hartford; 06/28/08, 06/30/08, Mansfield; 08/18/2009, O2, London, UK; 10/30/09, 10/31/09, Philadelphia, PA; 05/15/10, Hartford, CT; 05/17/10, Boston, MA; 05/20/10, 05/21/10, NY, NY; 06/22/10, Dublin, IRE; 06/23/10, Northern Ireland; 09/03/11, 09/04/11, Alpine Valley, WI; 09/11/11, 09/12/11, Toronto, Ont; 09/14/11, Ottawa, Ont; 09/15/11, Hamilton, Ont; 07/02/2012, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/04/2012 & 07/05/2012, Berlin, Germany; 07/07/2012, Stockholm, Sweden; 09/30/2012, Missoula, MT; 07/16/2013, London, Ont; 07/19/2013, Chicago, IL; 10/15/2013 & 10/16/2013, Worcester, MA; 10/21/2013 & 10/22/2013, Philadelphia, PA; 10/25/2013, Hartford, CT; 11/29/2013, Portland, OR; 11/30/2013, Spokane, WA; 12/04/2013, Vancouver, BC; 12/06/2013, Seattle, WA; 10/03/2014, St. Louis. MO; 10/22/2014, Denver, CO; 10/26/2015, New York, NY; 04/23/2016, New Orleans, LA; 04/28/2016 & 04/29/2016, Philadelphia, PA; 05/01/2016 & 05/02/2016, New York, NY; 05/08/2016, Ottawa, Ont.; 05/10/2016 & 05/12/2016, Toronto, Ont.; 08/05/2016 & 08/07/2016, Boston, MA; 08/20/2016 & 08/22/2016, Chicago, IL; 07/01/2018, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/03/2018, Krakow, Poland; 07/05/2018, Berlin, Germany; 09/02/2018 & 09/04/2018, Boston, MA; 09/08/2022, Toronto, Ont; 09/11/2022, New York, NY; 09/14/2022, Camden, NJ; 09/02/2023, St. Paul, MN;

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    mickeyratmickeyrat up my ass, like Chadwick was up his Posts: 35,673
    _____________________________________SIGNATURE________________________________________________

    Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
    you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
    memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
    another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
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    Jearlpam0925Jearlpam0925 Deep South Philly Posts: 16,766
    mickeyrat said:
    It's insane how many plebes I know (I am also a plebe btw) think like this - or at least have like a 1000x more sympathy for Capitalism and the owner/employer position and not the labor force in which they reside. It's crazy town.
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    mickeyrat said:
    It's insane how many plebes I know (I am also a plebe btw) think like this - or at least have like a 1000x more sympathy for Capitalism and the owner/employer position and not the labor force in which they reside. It's crazy town.
    Aaaaand it's guys like him that make the market move and controls pricing.  He's there to make money so people suffering is the best way for him.

    No amount of money is enough.  Insatiable.

    He also has a point.  The marginal workers that don't do too much are expecting the world whereas the doers should be getting those accolades.  

    Big business will keep raising prices if they still have to pay people
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    mickeyrat said:
    It's insane how many plebes I know (I am also a plebe btw) think like this - or at least have like a 1000x more sympathy for Capitalism and the owner/employer position and not the labor force in which they reside. It's crazy town.
    Aaaaand it's guys like him that make the market move and controls pricing.  He's there to make money so people suffering is the best way for him.

    No amount of money is enough.  Insatiable.

    He also has a point.  The marginal workers that don't do too much are expecting the world whereas the doers should be getting those accolades.  

    Big business will keep raising prices if they still have to pay people
    Who do you include as a “marginal worker?”
    09/15/1998 & 09/16/1998, Mansfield, MA; 08/29/00 08/30/00, Mansfield, MA; 07/02/03, 07/03/03, Mansfield, MA; 09/28/04, 09/29/04, Boston, MA; 09/22/05, Halifax, NS; 05/24/06, 05/25/06, Boston, MA; 07/22/06, 07/23/06, Gorge, WA; 06/27/2008, Hartford; 06/28/08, 06/30/08, Mansfield; 08/18/2009, O2, London, UK; 10/30/09, 10/31/09, Philadelphia, PA; 05/15/10, Hartford, CT; 05/17/10, Boston, MA; 05/20/10, 05/21/10, NY, NY; 06/22/10, Dublin, IRE; 06/23/10, Northern Ireland; 09/03/11, 09/04/11, Alpine Valley, WI; 09/11/11, 09/12/11, Toronto, Ont; 09/14/11, Ottawa, Ont; 09/15/11, Hamilton, Ont; 07/02/2012, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/04/2012 & 07/05/2012, Berlin, Germany; 07/07/2012, Stockholm, Sweden; 09/30/2012, Missoula, MT; 07/16/2013, London, Ont; 07/19/2013, Chicago, IL; 10/15/2013 & 10/16/2013, Worcester, MA; 10/21/2013 & 10/22/2013, Philadelphia, PA; 10/25/2013, Hartford, CT; 11/29/2013, Portland, OR; 11/30/2013, Spokane, WA; 12/04/2013, Vancouver, BC; 12/06/2013, Seattle, WA; 10/03/2014, St. Louis. MO; 10/22/2014, Denver, CO; 10/26/2015, New York, NY; 04/23/2016, New Orleans, LA; 04/28/2016 & 04/29/2016, Philadelphia, PA; 05/01/2016 & 05/02/2016, New York, NY; 05/08/2016, Ottawa, Ont.; 05/10/2016 & 05/12/2016, Toronto, Ont.; 08/05/2016 & 08/07/2016, Boston, MA; 08/20/2016 & 08/22/2016, Chicago, IL; 07/01/2018, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/03/2018, Krakow, Poland; 07/05/2018, Berlin, Germany; 09/02/2018 & 09/04/2018, Boston, MA; 09/08/2022, Toronto, Ont; 09/11/2022, New York, NY; 09/14/2022, Camden, NJ; 09/02/2023, St. Paul, MN;

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    Jearlpam0925Jearlpam0925 Deep South Philly Posts: 16,766
    edited September 2023
    mickeyrat said:
    It's insane how many plebes I know (I am also a plebe btw) think like this - or at least have like a 1000x more sympathy for Capitalism and the owner/employer position and not the labor force in which they reside. It's crazy town.
    Aaaaand it's guys like him that make the market move and controls pricing.  He's there to make money so people suffering is the best way for him.

    No amount of money is enough.  Insatiable.

    He also has a point.  The marginal workers that don't do too much are expecting the world whereas the doers should be getting those accolades.  

    Big business will keep raising prices if they still have to pay people
    Sorry this is so incredibly inaccurate on many fronts. But the most important one I'll stick to is: wage growth will always be worth the price increases. Full stop. And I wholeheartedly believe the pro-labor market is not done, based on demographics alone.

    And the bolded above is exactly what I'm talking about in my previous comment - like this idea that the majority of workers are loafers, welfare queens, etc. looking to milk the tit. Which is on its own absolutely ridiculous and no where near the truth, but yet there are people out there (like the above) that perpetuate this in the broader consciousness. It's amazing how many people do not grasp the idea of solidarity just to not lose this irrational grip on individualism.

    Can't promote enough the Naomi Klein interview on WTF:
    https://community.pearljam.com/discussion/248470/wtf-podcast-with-marc-maron/p16

    Post edited by Jearlpam0925 on
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