Eastern Europe shows just don't make sense...

bootlegger10

Hopefully not, but I wonder if those countries shut down tourism, events, etc... if that would create resentment to the refugees.  Terrible situation caused by ONE person.  Insanity.  

mrussel1

Cropduster-80 said:

To put it in perspective.  Seattle and Krakow have similar populations.  Seattle has 14,000 hotel rooms. Larger king county has 40,000 hotel rooms.  If a minimum of 100,000 plus refugees entered Seattle already with no end in sight how would the city house them? I don’t think we would be having the same conversation at that point. 

The scale of this is immense when you look at the numbers these cities are dealing with.  That’s a small number of the total refugees but on a city by city basis and doing the math of where to put them is unsustainable 

Are you sure that hotels are taking in the majority of these refugees? I only have one data point but I have extended family in Eastern Poland and they have taken in a family as have several of their neighbors. 

mrussel1

I was against the Budapest show prior to the invasion because I think Orban is trying to be a mini Putin.  However I am softened a bit because Hungary has condemned Russia and joined EU in all sanctions. He is someone to watch over the next decade. He could easily go hard authoritarian. 

RatherStarved

Anyone know how the situation is in Budapest right now?

drfox

The shows have no risk of cancellation unless the conflict extends to other countries. And if that happens the World has more to worry about than concerts, and generally everything would be cancelled - gigs, football, holidays etc. 

I sort of think PJ will be keener than ever to play those Eastern European countries and could help raise awareness and funding for the refugees. 

Cropduster-80

mrussel1 said:

Cropduster-80 said:

To put it in perspective.  Seattle and Krakow have similar populations.  Seattle has 14,000 hotel rooms. Larger king county has 40,000 hotel rooms.  If a minimum of 100,000 plus refugees entered Seattle already with no end in sight how would the city house them? I don’t think we would be having the same conversation at that point. 

The scale of this is immense when you look at the numbers these cities are dealing with.  That’s a small number of the total refugees but on a city by city basis and doing the math of where to put them is unsustainable 

Are you sure that hotels are taking in the majority of these refugees? I only have one data point but I have extended family in Eastern Poland and they have taken in a family as have several of their neighbors. 

All I am saying is increasing a city’s population by 15-20 percent overnight presents a lot of challenges. Housing them is one. Hotels or families opening their homes are probably all happening. Consumable resources, and infrastructure designed for a smaller city having to adapt overnight is also a pretty big challenge. 

I know where I live any hint of a hurricane and store shelves go bare overnight it takes a few weeks to go back to normal. Sustaining that spike in demand indefinitely requires more truck drivers, more production and  logistics that take time. 

I have no idea if this is an issue or not but consider stuff like mobile data networks. Could those even handle hundreds of thousands of additional phones accessing them? Bandwidth etc.  it’s a lot of strain on infrastructure that is designed to meet current demand and grow organically over time as population naturally grows vs all of a sudden 

drfox

Cropduster-80 said:

mrussel1 said:

Cropduster-80 said:

To put it in perspective.  Seattle and Krakow have similar populations.  Seattle has 14,000 hotel rooms. Larger king county has 40,000 hotel rooms.  If a minimum of 100,000 plus refugees entered Seattle already with no end in sight how would the city house them? I don’t think we would be having the same conversation at that point. 

The scale of this is immense when you look at the numbers these cities are dealing with.  That’s a small number of the total refugees but on a city by city basis and doing the math of where to put them is unsustainable 

Are you sure that hotels are taking in the majority of these refugees? I only have one data point but I have extended family in Eastern Poland and they have taken in a family as have several of their neighbors. 

All I am saying is increasing a city’s population by 15-20 percent overnight presents a lot of challenges. Housing them is one. Hotels or families opening their homes are probably all happening. Consumable resources, and infrastructure designed for a smaller city having to adapt overnight is also a pretty big challenge. 

I know where I live any hint of a hurricane and store shelves go bare overnight it takes a few weeks to go back to normal. Sustaining that spike in demand indefinitely requires more truck drivers, more production and  logistics that take time. 

I have no idea if this is an issue or not but consider stuff like mobile data networks. Could those even handle hundreds of thousands of additional phones accessing them? Bandwidth etc.  it’s a lot of strain on infrastructure that is designed to meet current demand and grow organically over time as population naturally grows vs all of a sudden 

By June/July time many of the refugees will be spread throughout Europe. They are only in Poland at the moment as it’s next to Ukraine and it’s the easiest way of escaping the country. Here in the U.K. we are going to give incentives for people to house refugees (£350 per refugee per month) and other places like France, Germany etc are planning to do similar initiatives. 

Cropduster-80

drfox said:

Cropduster-80 said:

mrussel1 said:

Cropduster-80 said:

To put it in perspective.  Seattle and Krakow have similar populations.  Seattle has 14,000 hotel rooms. Larger king county has 40,000 hotel rooms.  If a minimum of 100,000 plus refugees entered Seattle already with no end in sight how would the city house them? I don’t think we would be having the same conversation at that point. 

The scale of this is immense when you look at the numbers these cities are dealing with.  That’s a small number of the total refugees but on a city by city basis and doing the math of where to put them is unsustainable 

Are you sure that hotels are taking in the majority of these refugees? I only have one data point but I have extended family in Eastern Poland and they have taken in a family as have several of their neighbors. 

All I am saying is increasing a city’s population by 15-20 percent overnight presents a lot of challenges. Housing them is one. Hotels or families opening their homes are probably all happening. Consumable resources, and infrastructure designed for a smaller city having to adapt overnight is also a pretty big challenge. 

I know where I live any hint of a hurricane and store shelves go bare overnight it takes a few weeks to go back to normal. Sustaining that spike in demand indefinitely requires more truck drivers, more production and  logistics that take time. 

I have no idea if this is an issue or not but consider stuff like mobile data networks. Could those even handle hundreds of thousands of additional phones accessing them? Bandwidth etc.  it’s a lot of strain on infrastructure that is designed to meet current demand and grow organically over time as population naturally grows vs all of a sudden 

By June/July time many of the refugees will be spread throughout Europe. They are only in Poland at the moment as it’s next to Ukraine and it’s the easiest way of escaping the country. Here in the U.K. we are going to give incentives for people to house refugees (£350 per refugee per month) and other places like France, Germany etc are planning to do similar initiatives. 

I hope that happens. I think the image of massive tent cities full of refugees fleeing a war is something that cannot be allowed to happen in Europe.

Shouldn’t  happen anywhere but many other conflict zones around the world that’s exactly what happens 

Gravey1975

drfox said:

The shows have no risk of cancellation unless the conflict extends to other countries. And if that happens the World has more to worry about than concerts, and generally everything would be cancelled - gigs, football, holidays etc. 

I sort of think PJ will be keener than ever to play those Eastern European countries and could help raise awareness and funding for the refugees. 

This 100%

Weston1283

drfox said:

The shows have no risk of cancellation unless the conflict extends to other countries. And if that happens the World has more to worry about than concerts, and generally everything would be cancelled - gigs, football, holidays etc. 

I sort of think PJ will be keener than ever to play those Eastern European countries and could help raise awareness and funding for the refugees. 

I agree about them being keener than ever to play those shows and raising awareness.

Why not even go as far as to Livestream Krakow and Budapest shows for $20 a show, and do it on some platform like Twitch that is setup for donations.  Bring PJ fans together from around the world and give all livestream proceeds to local humanitarian efforts 

BlueLedbetter

In my head I had it that Krakow wouldn't happen, lots of good reasons that it should have been mentioned  thanks. Let's just hope the situation improves soon for those people 

JeBurkhardt

Weston1283 said:

drfox said:

The shows have no risk of cancellation unless the conflict extends to other countries. And if that happens the World has more to worry about than concerts, and generally everything would be cancelled - gigs, football, holidays etc. 

I sort of think PJ will be keener than ever to play those Eastern European countries and could help raise awareness and funding for the refugees. 

I agree about them being keener than ever to play those shows and raising awareness.

Why not even go as far as to Livestewam Krakow and Budapest shows for $20 a show, and do it on some platform like Twitch that is setup for donations.  Bring PJ fans together from around the world and give all Livestream proceeds to Local humanitarian efforts 

That is definitely something that could generate a lot of money for charity to help the people that have had to flee the conflict.

gotthebottle

Russia pretty damn close to Polish border today...

drfox

Weston1283 said:

drfox said:

The shows have no risk of cancellation unless the conflict extends to other countries. And if that happens the World has more to worry about than concerts, and generally everything would be cancelled - gigs, football, holidays etc. 

I sort of think PJ will be keener than ever to play those Eastern European countries and could help raise awareness and funding for the refugees. 

I agree about them being keener than ever to play those shows and raising awareness.

Why not even go as far as to Livestewam Krakow and Budapest shows for $20 a show, and do it on some platform like Twitch that is setup for donations.  Bring PJ fans together from around the world and give all Livestream proceeds to Local humanitarian efforts 

Agree, a lot of fans would pay to livestream those shows. A good way of raising funding 

ComeToTX

I have Budapest and Krakow tickets but will probably plan the trip assuming at least krakow doesn’t happen. 

Given to...

Good discussion points all around.

Cropduster has the points that I am concerned with covered.  Seriously some validity to the ability to maintain normalcy during a calamity of so many people in need. 

I'd have no idea of the logistical nightmare of moving the extra necessities into the cities just to care for the added pressures of possibly doubling the population in some areas.  Civic centers are where alot of the humanitarian needs are met, so squeezing in an extra 12,000-14,000 fans in the same district may be impossible.   And although along with the awareness the band would bring, the temporary release, and the possibility of a few dollars into NGO's or other aid groups is a literal drop in the bucket to what our Ukraine brothers and sisters will need moving forward.

To be honest, this WAS to be my first trip to Europe and have Krakow, Vienna, Budapest and Prague seats secured.  Somehow I feel completely contradictory being able to travel there to enjoy the shows while so much distress in the area is present, but still somehow in  my feeble mind feel elated to be waiting for a few rescheduled dates here in the US and some other shows planned for the summer.

 I know, right... A real world problem is worrying about rescheduled shows and cancelled trips while death and destruction that will be felt for generations is upon the doorstep..

Fuck

bootlegger10

We will see where things are at in four months.  If safe, like I said before,  they may be encouraging tourists to come for economic reasons.  If you owned a restaurant, a store, worked at a museum, worked at a hotel in those cities you would be hoping people visit so you have work and can get paid.  Especially with Covid hurting tourism the last couple of years.  Prague’s old town would be empty without tourists I would imagine.  

Yes, it is all very sad, but don’t jump to conclusions too much at this point.  That’s where I am at.  It could very well be canceled though and good discussion all around.  Unless I thought things would be unsafe or the tourist spots wouldn’t be open,  I would still plan on going and enjoying the experience.  

RatherStarved

This reminds me of Jan 2020…Covid isn’t going to be a problem by March…

BF89905

2-feign-reluctance said:

gotthebottle said:

PJNB said:

They are 4 months away. Difficult to watch what is happening right now in Ukraine but even today shows are happening in Krakow. 4 months is a long time. Hopefully they happen since if they do that means Ukraine is likely in
a better spot.

Given to... said:

Am I alone in thinking that shows in Krakow, Vienna, Budapest and others should be cancelled?

The horrors to the people of Ukraine are weighing much more heavily on me than a few shows.   The cities are already being stressed beyond their current ability, human suffering and human services bulging to breaking points.

Lodging needs for refugees, increased travel difficulties, shortages of medical, social concerns...

Thoughts?

War doesn't go away in 4 months... it's not a long time

Exactly. Putin’s track record over the last 30 years says this goes on for years. I really fucking hate the world right now. 

Agreed.... Unfortunately, history repeats itself all too often. Some people disregard it. Others are too narrow minded, or misinformed to see what's right in front of their faces. Awful, awful stuff over there in Ukraine. I don't see how how the band goes over to Europe. 

Cv-19 cases are starting to rise again in Europe. It'd be real nice if the people with agency, political influence, and big money did things to benefit humanity and start prepping for the inevitable next respiratory virus instead of focusing on short sighted selfish gains. 

I get really down when I ponder what this world may be like years down the road for our now 3 year old. We've got to be better than this. 

Stay safe and be empathetic

ComeToTX

RatherStarved said:

This reminds me of Jan 2020…Covid isn’t going to be a problem by March…

Anyone that said that was clueless.