Ukraine

mrussel1

mace1229 said:

I keep hearing people and countries want to classify Russia and Putin as war criminals.
But what is the point of that? Is it just a label? Would it give reason for more aide and support to Ukraine? Do they expect Outin to turn himself in? What would the realistic outcome be for doing that? 

It seems like it would be just a label. But hoping it means more?

It would affect his ability to travel to international conferences for one, or internationally at all (outside of China and maybe a few other rogue states).  It would also affect his ability to access his assets long term (or forever).   It would also be a serious propaganda victory in Russia.  Imagine if your leader is considered an international war criminal.  

josevolution

Get ready for public executions as they capture cities any dissenting supporters will be executed in public! 

mrussel1

josevolution said:

Get ready for public executions as they capture cities any dissenting supporters will be executed in public! 

Well that is very clearly a war crime and would make it quite easy for the UN and the Hague to declare them as such. 

mace1229

mrussel1 said:

mace1229 said:

I keep hearing people and countries want to classify Russia and Putin as war criminals.
But what is the point of that? Is it just a label? Would it give reason for more aide and support to Ukraine? Do they expect Outin to turn himself in? What would the realistic outcome be for doing that? 

It seems like it would be just a label. But hoping it means more?

It would affect his ability to travel to international conferences for one, or internationally at all (outside of China and maybe a few other rogue states).  It would also affect his ability to access his assets long term (or forever).   It would also be a serious propaganda victory in Russia.  Imagine if your leader is considered an international war criminal.  

Makes sense. Don’t know how much he would care about any of that except for the assets. 

mrussel1

mace1229 said:

mrussel1 said:

mace1229 said:

I keep hearing people and countries want to classify Russia and Putin as war criminals.
But what is the point of that? Is it just a label? Would it give reason for more aide and support to Ukraine? Do they expect Outin to turn himself in? What would the realistic outcome be for doing that? 

It seems like it would be just a label. But hoping it means more?

It would affect his ability to travel to international conferences for one, or internationally at all (outside of China and maybe a few other rogue states).  It would also affect his ability to access his assets long term (or forever).   It would also be a serious propaganda victory in Russia.  Imagine if your leader is considered an international war criminal.  

Makes sense. Don’t know how much he would care about any of that except for the assets. 

Not being able to go to Davos, the UN, Olympics, anywhere, makes you pretty impotent as a world leader.  

Jearlpam0925

mrussel1 said:

josevolution said:

Get ready for public executions as they capture cities any dissenting supporters will be executed in public! 

Well that is very clearly a war crime and would make it quite easy for the UN and the Hague to declare them as such. 

Right - randomly blowing up buildings they can argue is a consequence of war. But if they go around just blatantly executing people now you're talking about a completely different issue.

Also, so far it hasn't seemed like any Russian soldiers have had the stomach to do so.

josevolution

https://twitter.com/joncoopertweets/status/1499410192802496518?s=21

Brutal brutal regime and our ex-president is proud to call Putin savvy smart on & on! 

Ledbetterman10

mrussel1 said:

mace1229 said:

mrussel1 said:

mace1229 said:

I keep hearing people and countries want to classify Russia and Putin as war criminals.
But what is the point of that? Is it just a label? Would it give reason for more aide and support to Ukraine? Do they expect Outin to turn himself in? What would the realistic outcome be for doing that? 

It seems like it would be just a label. But hoping it means more?

It would affect his ability to travel to international conferences for one, or internationally at all (outside of China and maybe a few other rogue states).  It would also affect his ability to access his assets long term (or forever).   It would also be a serious propaganda victory in Russia.  Imagine if your leader is considered an international war criminal.  

Makes sense. Don’t know how much he would care about any of that except for the assets. 

Not being able to go to Davos, the UN, Olympics, anywhere, makes you pretty impotent as a world leader.  

He had to have known all these sort of sanctions were coming though. He seems okay with isolating Russia from the rest of the world. And between so much dependency on Russian oil, and Russia's quasi-alliance with China, he probably thinks he has cards to play in response to the sanctions. 

PJPOWER

I’m afraid to even post this here, but:
https://www.businessinsider.com/trump-calls-russia-invasion-of-ukraine-holocaust-big-shift-2022-3

Wonder how badly the sanctions are hurting Trump for him to come out so strongly against Russia.  A sign of Putin truly losing all power is what I take it as, or at least what I hope.  Trump is truly throwing Putin under the bus here (similar to other oligarchs distancing from Putin).  What do you all make of it?

Jearlpam0925

Ledbetterman10 said:

mrussel1 said:

mace1229 said:

mrussel1 said:

mace1229 said:

I keep hearing people and countries want to classify Russia and Putin as war criminals.
But what is the point of that? Is it just a label? Would it give reason for more aide and support to Ukraine? Do they expect Outin to turn himself in? What would the realistic outcome be for doing that? 

It seems like it would be just a label. But hoping it means more?

It would affect his ability to travel to international conferences for one, or internationally at all (outside of China and maybe a few other rogue states).  It would also affect his ability to access his assets long term (or forever).   It would also be a serious propaganda victory in Russia.  Imagine if your leader is considered an international war criminal.  

Makes sense. Don’t know how much he would care about any of that except for the assets. 

Not being able to go to Davos, the UN, Olympics, anywhere, makes you pretty impotent as a world leader.  

He had to have known all these sort of sanctions were coming though. He seems okay with isolating Russia from the rest of the world. And between so much dependency on Russian oil, and Russia's quasi-alliance with China, he probably thinks he has cards to play in response to the sanctions. 

I don't know man. I think he thought he'd be in and out in a day, and would have a pro-Russian regime running the show the second they were done.

josevolution

PJPOWER said:

I’m afraid to even post this here, but:
https://www.businessinsider.com/trump-calls-russia-invasion-of-ukraine-holocaust-big-shift-2022-3

Wonder how badly the sanctions are hurting Trump for him to come out so strongly against Russia.  A sign of Putin truly losing all power is what I take it as, or at least what I hope.  Trump is truly throwing Putin under the bus here (similar to other oligarchs distancing from Putin).  What do you all make of it?

He’s full of shit I don’t care how much he condemned Putin! Fuck him who was president when he tried to get dirt on Biden! 

Ledbetterman10

Jearlpam0925 said:

Ledbetterman10 said:

mrussel1 said:

mace1229 said:

mrussel1 said:

mace1229 said:

I keep hearing people and countries want to classify Russia and Putin as war criminals.
But what is the point of that? Is it just a label? Would it give reason for more aide and support to Ukraine? Do they expect Outin to turn himself in? What would the realistic outcome be for doing that? 

It seems like it would be just a label. But hoping it means more?

It would affect his ability to travel to international conferences for one, or internationally at all (outside of China and maybe a few other rogue states).  It would also affect his ability to access his assets long term (or forever).   It would also be a serious propaganda victory in Russia.  Imagine if your leader is considered an international war criminal.  

Makes sense. Don’t know how much he would care about any of that except for the assets. 

Not being able to go to Davos, the UN, Olympics, anywhere, makes you pretty impotent as a world leader.  

He had to have known all these sort of sanctions were coming though. He seems okay with isolating Russia from the rest of the world. And between so much dependency on Russian oil, and Russia's quasi-alliance with China, he probably thinks he has cards to play in response to the sanctions. 

I don't know man. I think he thought he'd be in and out in a day, and would have a pro-Russian regime running the show the second they were done.

I agree with this, but I don't think it's something that would cause him to backtrack or second-guess the invasion. In fact, I think it could make him go even more rouge and do something catastrophic. 

static111

PJPOWER said:

I’m afraid to even post this here, but:
https://www.businessinsider.com/trump-calls-russia-invasion-of-ukraine-holocaust-big-shift-2022-3

Wonder how badly the sanctions are hurting Trump for him to come out so strongly against Russia.  A sign of Putin truly losing all power is what I take it as, or at least what I hope.  Trump is truly throwing Putin under the bus here (similar to other oligarchs distancing from Putin).  What do you all make of it?

Sounds like he doesn't have a P tape to be worried about

HughFreakingDillon

PJPOWER said:

I’m afraid to even post this here, but:
https://www.businessinsider.com/trump-calls-russia-invasion-of-ukraine-holocaust-big-shift-2022-3

Wonder how badly the sanctions are hurting Trump for him to come out so strongly against Russia.  A sign of Putin truly losing all power is what I take it as, or at least what I hope.  Trump is truly throwing Putin under the bus here (similar to other oligarchs distancing from Putin).  What do you all make of it?

this is politically motivated. he knows this is his opportunity to undermine biden here, which is what he is doing. 

"But they don't respect the United States and the United States is like, I don't know, they're not doing anything about it. This is a — this is a holocaust. This is a horrible thing that's happening. You're witnessing and you're seeing it on television every night."

Jearlpam0925

Ledbetterman10 said:

Jearlpam0925 said:

Ledbetterman10 said:

mrussel1 said:

mace1229 said:

mrussel1 said:

mace1229 said:

I keep hearing people and countries want to classify Russia and Putin as war criminals.
But what is the point of that? Is it just a label? Would it give reason for more aide and support to Ukraine? Do they expect Outin to turn himself in? What would the realistic outcome be for doing that? 

It seems like it would be just a label. But hoping it means more?

It would affect his ability to travel to international conferences for one, or internationally at all (outside of China and maybe a few other rogue states).  It would also affect his ability to access his assets long term (or forever).   It would also be a serious propaganda victory in Russia.  Imagine if your leader is considered an international war criminal.  

Makes sense. Don’t know how much he would care about any of that except for the assets. 

Not being able to go to Davos, the UN, Olympics, anywhere, makes you pretty impotent as a world leader.  

He had to have known all these sort of sanctions were coming though. He seems okay with isolating Russia from the rest of the world. And between so much dependency on Russian oil, and Russia's quasi-alliance with China, he probably thinks he has cards to play in response to the sanctions. 

I don't know man. I think he thought he'd be in and out in a day, and would have a pro-Russian regime running the show the second they were done.

I agree with this, but I don't think it's something that would cause him to backtrack or second-guess the invasion. In fact, I think it could make him go even more rouge and do something catastrophic. 

Absolutely. But I don't think that means he saw this size of a global backlash coming. He's completely petulant, we know this - the Russian version of Trump if Trump had the authoritarian control of a thirst trap he was/is begging for. He's going to double down and dig his heels in, that's why I don't think absolute worst case scenario is off the table. If Vlad can fucking shoot himself up in Sputnik while the rest of the world burns so that he can come back down to Earth to rule over what's left he absolutely would. We can only hope that there is some seriously internal blacklash and coup/rebellion by the Russian people as a whole - and more importantly to those with a lot of money on the line.

He was on the phone with Macron for 90 minutes and Macron was telling him he's lying to himself lol. And Vlad doubled down that he's taking Ukraine lol. It's insane.

https://twitter.com/PedderSophie/status/1499391351829397506?s=20&t=KrYJMlmYDR68jvpBKZpmrg

mrussel1

Jearlpam0925 said:

Ledbetterman10 said:

mrussel1 said:

mace1229 said:

mrussel1 said:

mace1229 said:

I keep hearing people and countries want to classify Russia and Putin as war criminals.
But what is the point of that? Is it just a label? Would it give reason for more aide and support to Ukraine? Do they expect Outin to turn himself in? What would the realistic outcome be for doing that? 

It seems like it would be just a label. But hoping it means more?

It would affect his ability to travel to international conferences for one, or internationally at all (outside of China and maybe a few other rogue states).  It would also affect his ability to access his assets long term (or forever).   It would also be a serious propaganda victory in Russia.  Imagine if your leader is considered an international war criminal.  

Makes sense. Don’t know how much he would care about any of that except for the assets. 

Not being able to go to Davos, the UN, Olympics, anywhere, makes you pretty impotent as a world leader.  

He had to have known all these sort of sanctions were coming though. He seems okay with isolating Russia from the rest of the world. And between so much dependency on Russian oil, and Russia's quasi-alliance with China, he probably thinks he has cards to play in response to the sanctions. 

I don't know man. I think he thought he'd be in and out in a day, and would have a pro-Russian regime running the show the second they were done.

Yes.  I agree.  Putin probably thought there would be little resistance.  Zalensky and the cabinet would flee.  He probably had his puppet leader ready to declare that Ukraine was with Russia, and things would settle.  He would have to endure some short term sanctions but the world would move on since it would look almost peaceful in nature.  This was clearly Trumps read of the situation when he made his comments.  

Now that the resistance is massive and worldwide, Trump is trying to get on the other side of history.  But the internet doesn’t forget.

PJPOWER

HughFreakingDillon said:

PJPOWER said:

I’m afraid to even post this here, but:
https://www.businessinsider.com/trump-calls-russia-invasion-of-ukraine-holocaust-big-shift-2022-3

Wonder how badly the sanctions are hurting Trump for him to come out so strongly against Russia.  A sign of Putin truly losing all power is what I take it as, or at least what I hope.  Trump is truly throwing Putin under the bus here (similar to other oligarchs distancing from Putin).  What do you all make of it?

this is politically motivated. he knows this is his opportunity to undermine biden here, which is what he is doing. 

"But they don't respect the United States and the United States is like, I don't know, they're not doing anything about it. This is a — this is a holocaust. This is a horrible thing that's happening. You're witnessing and you're seeing it on television every night."

I agree.  I think everything he does is self-serving.  He is not “Putin’s puppet”, but a puppet of his own selfishness.  Really reminds me of the oligarchs supporting Putin in everything as long as they are making $.

On the bright side, maybe the people that fully support everything he states will now actively go against Russia too (even if it is just a low blow against Biden).  

mrussel1

PJPOWER said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

PJPOWER said:

I’m afraid to even post this here, but:
https://www.businessinsider.com/trump-calls-russia-invasion-of-ukraine-holocaust-big-shift-2022-3

Wonder how badly the sanctions are hurting Trump for him to come out so strongly against Russia.  A sign of Putin truly losing all power is what I take it as, or at least what I hope.  Trump is truly throwing Putin under the bus here (similar to other oligarchs distancing from Putin).  What do you all make of it?

this is politically motivated. he knows this is his opportunity to undermine biden here, which is what he is doing. 

"But they don't respect the United States and the United States is like, I don't know, they're not doing anything about it. This is a — this is a holocaust. This is a horrible thing that's happening. You're witnessing and you're seeing it on television every night."

I agree.  I think everything he does is self-serving.  He is not “Putin’s puppet”, but a puppet of his own selfishness.  Really reminds me of the oligarchs supporting Putin in everything as long as they are making $.

On the bright side, maybe the red necks that fully support everything he states will now actively speak out against Russia too (even if it is just a low blow against Biden).  

This week we learned from Bolton that he didn't know where Ukraine was located.  And now from that quote, we learned he doesn't know what the Holocaust was.  He thinks it's some sort of generic term for killing civilians or something.  Maybe he thinks it's a synonym for "genocide".  Either way, it's not what he thinks it is.  

Ledbetterman10

Jearlpam0925 said:

Ledbetterman10 said:

Jearlpam0925 said:

Ledbetterman10 said:

mrussel1 said:

mace1229 said:

mrussel1 said:

mace1229 said:

I keep hearing people and countries want to classify Russia and Putin as war criminals.
But what is the point of that? Is it just a label? Would it give reason for more aide and support to Ukraine? Do they expect Outin to turn himself in? What would the realistic outcome be for doing that? 

It seems like it would be just a label. But hoping it means more?

It would affect his ability to travel to international conferences for one, or internationally at all (outside of China and maybe a few other rogue states).  It would also affect his ability to access his assets long term (or forever).   It would also be a serious propaganda victory in Russia.  Imagine if your leader is considered an international war criminal.  

Makes sense. Don’t know how much he would care about any of that except for the assets. 

Not being able to go to Davos, the UN, Olympics, anywhere, makes you pretty impotent as a world leader.  

He had to have known all these sort of sanctions were coming though. He seems okay with isolating Russia from the rest of the world. And between so much dependency on Russian oil, and Russia's quasi-alliance with China, he probably thinks he has cards to play in response to the sanctions. 

I don't know man. I think he thought he'd be in and out in a day, and would have a pro-Russian regime running the show the second they were done.

I agree with this, but I don't think it's something that would cause him to backtrack or second-guess the invasion. In fact, I think it could make him go even more rouge and do something catastrophic. 

Absolutely. But I don't think that means he saw this size of a global backlash coming. He's completely petulant, we know this - the Russian version of Trump if Trump had the authoritarian control of a thirst trap he was/is begging for. He's going to double down and dig his heels in, that's why I don't think absolute worst case scenario is off the table. If Vlad can fucking shoot himself up in Sputnik while the rest of the world burns so that he can come back down to Earth to rule over what's left he absolutely would. We can only hope that there is some seriously internal blacklash and coup/rebellion by the Russian people as a whole - and more importantly to those with a lot of money on the line.

He was on the phone with Macron for 90 minutes and Macron was telling him he's lying to himself lol. And Vlad doubled down that he's taking Ukraine lol. It's insane.

Yeah you might be right. In retrospect it seems obvious that such a backlash would come, but when he was planning this out, he probably thought "Who in the West is going to care about the Ukraine?"

But now, weren't the initial reports that he was going to try and take a section of Ukraine (similar to Crimea in 2014) rather than a complete takeover of the government? I think if he just did that, the backlash wouldn't be near what it is. Frankly, it'd probably be similar to 2014, with Biden's response being similar to Obama's. But invading from various entry points, trying to take the capital, calling for the assassination of the Ukrainian president.....it's become way bigger in scale than at least I expected. 

PJPOWER

mrussel1 said:

PJPOWER said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

PJPOWER said:

I’m afraid to even post this here, but:
https://www.businessinsider.com/trump-calls-russia-invasion-of-ukraine-holocaust-big-shift-2022-3

Wonder how badly the sanctions are hurting Trump for him to come out so strongly against Russia.  A sign of Putin truly losing all power is what I take it as, or at least what I hope.  Trump is truly throwing Putin under the bus here (similar to other oligarchs distancing from Putin).  What do you all make of it?

this is politically motivated. he knows this is his opportunity to undermine biden here, which is what he is doing. 

"But they don't respect the United States and the United States is like, I don't know, they're not doing anything about it. This is a — this is a holocaust. This is a horrible thing that's happening. You're witnessing and you're seeing it on television every night."

I agree.  I think everything he does is self-serving.  He is not “Putin’s puppet”, but a puppet of his own selfishness.  Really reminds me of the oligarchs supporting Putin in everything as long as they are making $.

On the bright side, maybe the red necks that fully support everything he states will now actively speak out against Russia too (even if it is just a low blow against Biden).  

This week we learned from Bolton that he didn't know where Ukraine was located.  And now from that quote, we learned he doesn't know what the Holocaust was.  He thinks it's some sort of generic term for killing civilians or something.  Maybe he thinks it's a synonym for "genocide".  Either way, it's not what he thinks it is.  

Yes, he is still an uneducated selfish dumbass, ha.  

Fair enough