Ukraine

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  • Bentleyspop
    Bentleyspop Craft Beer Brewery, Colorado Posts: 11,409
    dasvidana said:
    shadowcast said:
    I am in disbelief of how 95% of this fanbase has become pro war. You all fell for the propaganda. We forced Ukraine to do our dirty work. This is like the middle east wars except now we are using the people of Ukraine. I cannot believe most of you want US boots on the ground to turn this into WW3. You should all be embarrassed. 
    You should be embarrassed that you're spewing Kremlin talking points. Want peace? Tell your buddy, Vlad, to get the fuck out of Ukraine. 
    They are clearly a RUssian troll bot.
  • Gern Blansten
    Gern Blansten Mar-A-Lago Posts: 22,177
    Sounds like Macron is stepping up...good
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  • Halifax2TheMax
    Halifax2TheMax Posts: 42,105
    Maybe Britain and France could covertly give Ukraine some nuclear weapons, say 5 or 6 nuclear cruise missles and get them situated and operational and then let the world know that they have them and are ready to sign the NPT and that they’re for deterrence only. Figure it’s only fair seeing how they gave them up, the treaty was broken and they were invaded anyway. That ought to get everyone’s attention.
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  • HughFreakingDillon
    HughFreakingDillon Winnipeg Posts: 39,473
    Halifax2TheMax said:
    Maybe Britain and France could covertly give Ukraine some nuclear weapons, say 5 or 6 nuclear cruise missles and get them situated and operational and then let the world know that they have them and are ready to sign the NPT and that they’re for deterrence only. Figure it’s only fair seeing how they gave them up, the treaty was broken and they were invaded anyway. That ought to get everyone’s attention.
    Or putin calls their bluff and half the world dies cuz trump says “do what you want”. 
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  • mickeyrat
    mickeyrat Posts: 44,370
    if true, straight up dick move.

    Trump’s administration of US President plans to revoke the temporary legal status of approximately 240,000 Ukrainians who sought refuge in the country after Russia’s full-scale invasion of Ukraine — Reuters
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  • mickeyrat
    mickeyrat Posts: 44,370
    BREAKING: Trump shuts off intelligence to Ukraine, cutting off data for drones, air attacks, and air defense

    This is a clear and direct violation of the Budapest Memorandum of 1994 - in which US gave security guarantee to Ukraine in exchange for Ukraine giving up nukes and ships
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  • mickeyrat
    mickeyrat Posts: 44,370
    BREAKING: Senior officials from the Trump administration have been holding private meetings with the political opposition of Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy.

    - POLITCO
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  • Halifax2TheMax
    Halifax2TheMax Posts: 42,105
    mickeyrat said:
    BREAKING: Senior officials from the Trump administration have been holding private meetings with the political opposition of Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy.

    - POLITCO
    Is the war over yet? Seems this new administration should have ended it by now.
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  • cincybearcat
    cincybearcat Posts: 16,830
    MAGA the pro-russian party....never thought I'd see it. 

    I keep going back to Obama debating Romney....Romney saying Russia was the biggest threat to the USA and Obama laughing him off.  I never thought that MAGA and Obama would be aligned.

    We shoulda listened to Romney.
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  • OnWis97
    OnWis97 St. Paul, MN Posts: 5,610
    I don't think MAGA is aligned with Obama...while I don't specifically remember that moment, I suspect Obama, like so many Dems just didn't get it. And in 2012, did anyone? Trump is a huge part of Russia being where it is.

    MAGA being pro-Russia? I knew I was seeing that in 2016.  The GOP being pro-Russia might be what you meant. And yeah, lots of irony there for those of us old enough to remember the Cold War.
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  • HughFreakingDillon
    HughFreakingDillon Winnipeg Posts: 39,473
    cincybearcat said:
    MAGA the pro-russian party....never thought I'd see it. 

    I keep going back to Obama debating Romney....Romney saying Russia was the biggest threat to the USA and Obama laughing him off.  I never thought that MAGA and Obama would be aligned.

    We shoulda listened to Romney.
    Obama laughed because they weren’t much of a threat at the time. Only became one after trump entered the chat. 
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  • Merkin Baller
    Merkin Baller Posts: 12,769
    cincybearcat said:
    MAGA the pro-russian party....never thought I'd see it. 

    I keep going back to Obama debating Romney....Romney saying Russia was the biggest threat to the USA and Obama laughing him off.  I never thought that MAGA and Obama would be aligned.

    We shoulda listened to Romney.
    Was Obama pro-Russia like MAGA, or did he just not anticipate the way the GOP was going to fall in w/ and support Putin? 
  • Tim Simmons
    Tim Simmons Posts: 9,537
    cincybearcat said:
    MAGA the pro-russian party....never thought I'd see it. 

    I keep going back to Obama debating Romney....Romney saying Russia was the biggest threat to the USA and Obama laughing him off.  I never thought that MAGA and Obama would be aligned.

    We shoulda listened to Romney.
    I think aligned is hyperbolic and overstating it.

    Obama was wary of Putin, but history has shown he underestimated them, especially in regards to the seeds of this war and Crimea. MAGA and the Trump Admin are bending over backwards to accommodate Russia. 
  • mrussel1
    mrussel1 Posts: 30,879
    OnWis97 said:
    I don't think MAGA is aligned with Obama...while I don't specifically remember that moment, I suspect Obama, like so many Dems just didn't get it. And in 2012, did anyone? Trump is a huge part of Russia being where it is.

    MAGA being pro-Russia? I knew I was seeing that in 2016.  The GOP being pro-Russia might be what you meant. And yeah, lots of irony there for those of us old enough to remember the Cold War.
    Right, you have to look at the state of play in 2009.  Dmitry Medvedev was president, as Putin had stepped back.  It looked like Russia was liberalizing as Medvedev was considered a pro-western candidate.  The Georgian had begun and ended over the course of 16 days in 2008 and the Chechen War was ending.  

    Maybe Romney was right for the wrong reasons.  But I don't agree with the statement that Obama and Maga are aligned.  Maga's love of Russia is related to the reactionary, anti-liberalism of the Putin gov't.  Their real love is Hungary which is Putin-lite.  
  • cincybearcat
    cincybearcat Posts: 16,830
    HughFreakingDillon said:
    cincybearcat said:
    MAGA the pro-russian party....never thought I'd see it. 

    I keep going back to Obama debating Romney....Romney saying Russia was the biggest threat to the USA and Obama laughing him off.  I never thought that MAGA and Obama would be aligned.

    We shoulda listened to Romney.
    Obama laughed because they weren’t much of a threat at the time. Only became one after trump entered the chat. 
    Nah they were always a threat...ignoring them is what allowed it to occur.  Just not the same kind of threat (military...nukes) at that time.  
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  • cincybearcat
    cincybearcat Posts: 16,830
    Merkin Baller said:
    cincybearcat said:
    MAGA the pro-russian party....never thought I'd see it. 

    I keep going back to Obama debating Romney....Romney saying Russia was the biggest threat to the USA and Obama laughing him off.  I never thought that MAGA and Obama would be aligned.

    We shoulda listened to Romney.
    Was Obama pro-Russia like MAGA, or did he just not anticipate the way the GOP was going to fall in w/ and support Putin? 
    Certainly not pro-russia...but he ignored the threat.....not good.
    hippiemom = goodness
  • cincybearcat
    cincybearcat Posts: 16,830
    Tim Simmons said:
    cincybearcat said:
    MAGA the pro-russian party....never thought I'd see it. 

    I keep going back to Obama debating Romney....Romney saying Russia was the biggest threat to the USA and Obama laughing him off.  I never thought that MAGA and Obama would be aligned.

    We shoulda listened to Romney.
    I think aligned is hyperbolic and overstating it.

    Obama was wary of Putin, but history has shown he underestimated them, especially in regards to the seeds of this war and Crimea. MAGA and the Trump Admin are bending over backwards to accommodate Russia. 
    Probably not the perfect word choice.  
    hippiemom = goodness
  • Merkin Baller
    Merkin Baller Posts: 12,769
    edited March 6
    cincybearcat said:
    Merkin Baller said:
    cincybearcat said:
    MAGA the pro-russian party....never thought I'd see it. 

    I keep going back to Obama debating Romney....Romney saying Russia was the biggest threat to the USA and Obama laughing him off.  I never thought that MAGA and Obama would be aligned.

    We shoulda listened to Romney.
    Was Obama pro-Russia like MAGA, or did he just not anticipate the way the GOP was going to fall in w/ and support Putin? 
    Certainly not pro-russia...but he ignored the threat.....not good.
    As did everyone who voted for trump over Hillary. 
    Post edited by Merkin Baller on
  • cincybearcat
    cincybearcat Posts: 16,830
    Merkin Baller said:
    cincybearcat said:
    Merkin Baller said:
    cincybearcat said:
    MAGA the pro-russian party....never thought I'd see it. 

    I keep going back to Obama debating Romney....Romney saying Russia was the biggest threat to the USA and Obama laughing him off.  I never thought that MAGA and Obama would be aligned.

    We shoulda listened to Romney.
    Was Obama pro-Russia like MAGA, or did he just not anticipate the way the GOP was going to fall in w/ and support Putin? 
    Certainly not pro-russia...but he ignored the threat.....not good.
    As did everyone who voted for trump over Hillary. 
    Ummmmm yup....which I kinda already said re:MAGA?  What's the point?
    hippiemom = goodness
  • Merkin Baller
    Merkin Baller Posts: 12,769
    edited March 6
    cincybearcat said:
    Merkin Baller said:
    cincybearcat said:
    Merkin Baller said:
    cincybearcat said:
    MAGA the pro-russian party....never thought I'd see it. 

    I keep going back to Obama debating Romney....Romney saying Russia was the biggest threat to the USA and Obama laughing him off.  I never thought that MAGA and Obama would be aligned.

    We shoulda listened to Romney.
    Was Obama pro-Russia like MAGA, or did he just not anticipate the way the GOP was going to fall in w/ and support Putin? 
    Certainly not pro-russia...but he ignored the threat.....not good.
    As did everyone who voted for trump over Hillary. 
    Ummmmm yup....which I kinda already said re:MAGA?  What's the point?
    Hugh already made the point... Russia wasn't half the threat to America that they would become once they had a GOP candidate for president that's been beholden to them since the '80s. 

    That's no small detail to gloss over. Should Obama have anticipated that in 2012?  

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