OMG I cant stand seeing this thread for another day on the board -for people arguing over God is absolutely fucking ridiculous!!!!!! There is nothing more destructive than people trying to argue the fact God is existent or non existent! Do yah all need me to quote some lyrics from John Lennon?
You don't have to read this thread.
This thread isn't about the existence of god either. It has been about interpreting pearl jam's lyrics and about evolution v. ID.
i dont want anyone to go my way. and i dont care that you(thats the collective you, of course) agree with my idea of freedom or not. all that matters to me is my opinion, if everyone elses opinion differs from mine to such an extent that compromise seems like a betrayal to me, then i wont do it. i will simply dismiss your opinion. why would i do this? cause i can and cause thats the beauty of freedom. its cool for you to be different just as it is for me. but dont make the mistake of thinking that i feel obliged to respect an opinion so diametrical opposed to my own that it in it making zero sense to me it has become inconsequential to my own being. i dont.
What Tim and I have been discussing is whether or not ID is science, some of the principles of ID as well as evolution. It has very little to do with whether god exists or not. We certainly didn't discuss that aspect and if we did it was only vaguely.
The interpretation of Ed's lyrics also have very little to do with whether god exists or not. To some people god exists and they can interpret certain things in a religious context. Other people don't believe in god and don't see that interpretation and disagree with it.
It is perfectly possible to discuss these things without discussing the existence of god.
If you think all philosophical debates about god are pointless and useless, so be it. I already stated that the god question is not a big one, in fact, a very small one to me. But I'm interested in hearing the other side.
The debate about ID is, imo, certainly not pointless. I think ID is a religious political movement that tries to force their unsubstantiated and imcomplete theories into science class, not through the conventional way, but through political pressure and by gaining support from the people by deliberately delivering false information about what the theory of evolution is and also about ID's position and the "evidence" ID has.
Either way, pointless or not, I'm just saying it's rather weird that you continue to read a thread and post in it even though you can't stand reading it.
What Tim and I have been discussing is whether or not ID is science, some of the principles of ID as well as evolution. It has very little to do with whether god exists or not. We certainly didn't discuss that aspect and if we did it was only vaguely.
The interpretation of Ed's lyrics also have very little to do with whether god exists or not. To some people god exists and they can interpret certain things in a religious context. Other people don't believe in god and don't see that interpretation and disagree with it.
It is perfectly possible to discuss these things without discussing the existence of god.
If you think all philosophical debates about god are pointless and useless, so be it. I already stated that the god question is not a big one, in fact, a very small one to me. But I'm interested in hearing the other side.
The debate about ID is, imo, certainly not pointless. I think ID is a religious political movement that tries to force their unsubstantiated and imcomplete theories into science class, not through the conventional way, but through political pressure and by gaining support from the people by deliberately delivering false information about what the theory of evolution is and also about ID's position and the "evidence" ID has.
Either way, pointless or not, I'm just saying it's rather weird that you continue to read a thread and post in it even though you can't stand reading it.
NO I CANT STAND SEEING IT ON THE MAIN BOARD FOR DAYS!!!!! Hey isnt my opinion about the whole thread just as valid as your?
Honestly... has this thread come to any conclusion? Has it opened the minds of those whom you are replying to? What it seems like to me that it is not an intellectual enlightening argument but a pompous know-it- all "Grammarpalooza!"
The Words and Music...Communication forum is about discussing Pearl Jam's lyrics only. A religion and science discussion would be appropriate for A Moving Train. Please go ahead and start a thread there about that topic...it derails this one. Thanks!
(right off the bat fuck my spellin) god is god is god is god!!! who should really care xcept 4 those who fear him/her. it is all a perception. if you beeleave great if you dont great, just leeave me alone about that. I dont like peps pressin there shit on other peps.
TO EACH HIS OWN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
by the way i am god you can contact me..... Removed.
god bless amirroraca
Dude, would advise you to remove that link, or you might get slapped by the mods.
Enjoy the music. Ed is not and has never been religious...you are reading thoughts and motives into his lyrics that are not there. It doesn't matter. Go on a musical journey with the band, and go on your own spiritual journey however you see fit. You don't need some sort of religious affirmation from a rock band.
I agree- I feel that some things in life parallel my life with each album and each song/lyrics, and that is one of the best things that could ever happen in my life- I think it's wonderful how "go on a musical journey" was identified- it's the complete phrase I've been looking for ever since Ten came out- each album has had its own meaning to me, incl Into the Wild, and all of us have our own journeys with PJ, Ed, each musician, etc....
if your a christian, which i am why would you worry about what anyone else believes or is searching for? pj and other bands, actors, or politians have their own thoughts. pj is a group of 5 guys playing rock & roll expressing their veiw of the world. i have been a fan since the start. they have covered every aspect of life, thats why we are all on here. they have something in their music we can all relate to! some stuff i agree with some i dont but they rock the party, so lets jam! be open, its nothing as it seems! its a band not your spiritual leader!!!!!!!!!!
when you were rockin out in '92 did not bother you then. but know you have changed and you want the band to change with you? and if they have not they are to blame, does not make any sense
In my own spiritual journey Ed has been a constant voice, a co-searcher of truth. I used to be amazed how new albums seemed to reflect my own searchings. But now we are adrift, worlds apart. From Ten to Yield, Ed's lyrics beat a genuine, honest, and real, path to God. After the metaphysical groping of vitalogy and no code,Yield's affirmation of faith and heavy allusions to the crucifixion of Jesus in Given to fly, made it the the soundtrack to my own recent submission to God. However, although remnants remained on Binaural, it soon became clear that Ed had seen the truth, counted the cost, and turned back. Now I am dismayed by the anti-Christian videos on tenclubs activism page and the 'God is a delusion' messages in Ed's lyrics. I feel gutted that ed did not come along for the ride, he's missed the greatest discovery of all - Life as a disciple of Jesus. I feel like I've lost a friend, am I the only one who feels this way?
Yield's affirmation of faith and heavy allusions to the crucifixion of Jesus?
This isn't what I take from Yield at ALL.
The song faithful to me questions god and faith itself.
"The man upstairs is used to all of this noise
I'm through with screaming
And echoes nobody hears, it goes, it goes, it goes"
I see this as giving up on praying, the echoes go because no one is there to answer.
"M.Y.T.H. is
Belief in the game controls that keeps us in a box of fear"
Religion is used to control people, the notion hell is the fear that many people try to avoid and thus bring them to have faith. I mean come on you going to spend eternity burning if you don't accept Jesus.
GTF is about a man have a bad time and using pot to escape. Nothing to do with Jesus.
DTE
I'm the first mammal to wear pants, yeah
I'm at peace with my lust
I can kill 'cause in God I trust, yeah
It's evolution, baby
I'm a thief, I'm a liar
There's my church, I sing in the choir:
(hallelujah, hallelujah)
Um, I don't think Eddie can make it any clearer is distaste for religion and God.
I could go on with other examples from his songs, but I believe I am in the majority that Ed doesn't like religion and questions the existence of a God.
I am sorry you feel gutted but it's music take from it what you want. I don't trust religion and there most likely isn't a God, so Ed's lyrics offer me my affirmation.
In the MSG DVD or CD after singing Faithful Ed states how he is for Hope but not something bigger like a God. Those aren't the exact words but the general idea.
he told you in sleight of hand.. "ill see you on the otherside"..so chillax till then.
Any new realizations... would have to wait...
Til he had more time,... more time...
Time to dream,... to himself... he waves goodbye,
To himself... I'll see you on the other side...
I view this song about a guy who is bored with life and wishing to escape, have time for himself.
I think the other side is his dream world, when he's not awake and dealing with the boredom of his every day life.
I don't see the other side as an after life, it's the dream state where the guy in this song can have anything he wants.
Like Stone stated, this is the genius of Ed, he can take many different roles in his songs.
In my own spiritual journey Ed has been a constant voice, a co-searcher of truth. I used to be amazed how new albums seemed to reflect my own searchings. But now we are adrift, worlds apart. From Ten to Yield, Ed's lyrics beat a genuine, honest, and real, path to God. After the metaphysical groping of vitalogy and no code,Yield's affirmation of faith and heavy allusions to the crucifixion of Jesus in Given to fly, made it the the soundtrack to my own recent submission to God. However, although remnants remained on Binaural, it soon became clear that Ed had seen the truth, counted the cost, and turned back. Now I am dismayed by the anti-Christian videos on tenclubs activism page and the 'God is a delusion' messages in Ed's lyrics. I feel gutted that ed did not come along for the ride, he's missed the greatest discovery of all - Life as a disciple of Jesus. I feel like I've lost a friend, am I the only one who feels this way?
I think this person is just expressing his own experience with the band. It's ok to feel this way. If he feels like he lost a friend, that's the way it is.
In my own spiritual journey Ed has been a constant voice, a co-searcher of truth. I used to be amazed how new albums seemed to reflect my own searchings. But now we are adrift, worlds apart. From Ten to Yield, Ed's lyrics beat a genuine, honest, and real, path to God. After the metaphysical groping of vitalogy and no code,Yield's affirmation of faith and heavy allusions to the crucifixion of Jesus in Given to fly, made it the the soundtrack to my own recent submission to God. However, although remnants remained on Binaural, it soon became clear that Ed had seen the truth, counted the cost, and turned back. Now I am dismayed by the anti-Christian videos on tenclubs activism page and the 'God is a delusion' messages in Ed's lyrics. I feel gutted that ed did not come along for the ride, he's missed the greatest discovery of all - Life as a disciple of Jesus. I feel like I've lost a friend, am I the only one who feels this way?
I think this person is just expressing his own experience with the band. It's ok to feel this way. If he feels like he lost a friend, that's the way it is.
Let it be.
Like I said in my post, it's music and take what it from what you want.
Not saying he is wrong or I am right, just showing why I feel the way I do.
I'm from Pakistan and i found Pearl Jam in 1993 when i was 12... I believe in God ...and Eddie Vedder is my prophet... I've read some really good comments here... One of the comments I came across was from Cookies and I really liked that... I just go on believing or disbelieving, keeping the faith, at times losing the faith, but Pearl Jam guides me always...No Code is an album which really provides me relief when I feel mad pain... What Eddie's personal beliefs or lack of beliefs are, does not keep me up at night... that's strange though because Pearl Jam is very personal to me and is everything to me... But there's only so much i want to know because as it is, i've grown to know a lot, and at times the feeling is too much, and I could fuckin choke... because i've lived in Pakistan all my life i only saw Pearl Jam the first time in Berlin in 2006 and until then i wasn't even sure i wanted to see them because reality can be scary at times and indeed every time i've seen them since, something happens to me and gets instilled and i'm not sure whether for the better or worse, but i know that i have faith and i know that this is honest stuff so that in the end at least my conscience is clean... this message is not meant to be a reply to anyone or anything like that... i just feel like writing and that's what it is... I sing and write lyrics but this has a different meaning because i feel i'm writing to like-minded, honest people in different parts of the world, who might get a little of what i have to say...with all the shit goin on in the world and people killing each other, it's true that music brings people together and Pearl Jam's music has done that for me... growing up on Pearl Jam in Pakistan has been an intense ride in ways i can't really fully explain... the distance, the relation, the journey, Ed n Fateh Ali Khan, the revelation, the 3rd world, the hashish, the underworld, with a little of Pearl Jam in it:) if they played in my coastal hometown of Karachi, i assure you they'd not only fill the stadiums but they'd cause a fuckin tidal wave:) there's no purpose here, just endless dribble:) it's just that i feel alone ... currently i'm away from my family or anyone who knows me truly, and who have shared this ride with me and i tend to go into holes... Pearl Jam gets me there, and gets me out but most importantly stays, and that's more than i can say for anything or anyone else... it's real stuff, Eddie, his lyrics, Pearl Jam and I think Cookies said it's difficult to express the thanks to them... i screamed so many "thank yous" to them in Manchester and London recently but i doubt they carried all the way and in any case sounded like crazy, as opposed to sincere shit:) (though i did beat my chest insanely at the end when on top of my firend's shoulders and all but Stone noticed and responded in like and that'll be a good memory on the death bed maybe:)) but that is why I pray for them and live by their music... i know that i've been made a better man by it, and so the inner struggle gets just a bit easier to handle... i think i've said enough... and i hope all of you stay well... peace.
Seems we forget about the Old Testament side of the bible.
I'm stating this as an opinion and I'm not trying to put you or your belief down, but one only needs to read Leviticus 26 or maybe begin at Deuteronomy 28:15 or the whole passage of Numbers 31. I find it interesting how christians often pick and choose only the parts of the bible they like and ignore the other side of it.
I am so glad you pointed that out. Because you know, I still struggle with the image of God, my own personal image of Him, that is. For instance, is He the Old Testament God, the fire and wrath and "I will get you , you sinners!!" God because if He is then surely all of the shit I have had in my life has been well deserved and although I will still respect and revere Him, then I can't really say I trust Him because He is judging me harshly and if I am not worthy of His love, due to His personal punishments, then I cannot follow Him----I will never be good enough.
Or is He the "Santa Claus"God, (which truly I did think of that way---before the single really--but more like, "Ok, ask for ANYTHING you want and I will give it to you.........but He is not giving me what I want, so why?? Am I really that bad that MY prayers are unheard?
Or is He my version of the image of the "Jesus Christ Superstar" Jesus, who is laid back, loving and says, "No, man it's cool, really. I love you despite yourself. Just keep trying to get it right. You will."
See, depending on where I am emotionally in my life all has been true.
So, in order for me to have the perspective of respect for this God that I choose to feel is true, then I need to take all in account, hoping that there is a huge answer as to why my life turns and twists as it does, pray I learn from it all and keep in my heart the last image of Jesus I stated, so I too will develop into someone worthy of respect; one who is loving as well as disciplined.
I am accountable for my sins, faults, mess ups and either I will cause my own punishment in respect to a karma type thing or God will allow the bad to come to me due to my own poor judgement. Sometimes people get a lot of bad and in no way do I feel they deserve it on any level as I will never be able to explain the horrors that are in the world that are living realities to some.........I mourn for them; truly I do.........
but I have to believe that regardless of the force that is driving this world and these things to occur, that there is a greater good that will somehow come of it...........(like that boy who got killed so many years ago, that boy Adam Walsh, and although nothing will ever justify or replace him to his parents, look all his father did for child safety, as well as criminals being caught).
If I don't have a hope in something, then I will become an animal as any of us can become and live merely by my primal instincts as well as primal hungers; only living for me. I do not think all non believers are this way; I am saying that in myself I acknowledge this..............so I choose to believe.
WORD!!! I feel this way too but I liken myself to be like an animal because i do think animals are more intuned with GOD and talk to 'THE LIGHT OF LOVE' daily...actually i don't think they "meow" or "ruff-ruff" but are just in that place of peace on earth...just a guess though :oops: (think of 'RATS'). So, yeah, my DOG is GOD!
Honestly, I dream of the day when "opposing forces" like democrats and republicans & science and religion can come together somehow and realize both sides are good because no one really knows everything anyways-we all just try in our own way, and each way is beautiful. What is not beautiful though is when people feel isolated and alone, which can come when a person feels that their ideas are some how rejected or dismissed (I think of a homeless man who has schitzophrenia and he thinks and feels no one believes him that he hears and sees things). As far as this topic of GOD,I think it is difficult for people to accept others beliefs other then their own because it takes away from the validity of their own and that in itself can be real fuck'en scary! We are all in the same boat; if we could just try to accept each other and learn from our differences without being scared that it will take away from our own beliefs-then we could be more tolerant, accepting and loving. Just some ideas here. 'Imagine' by John Lennon comes to mind.
This is my religion, as of this moment, in a nut shell (and believe me, it might change tomorrow!)
Comments
You don't have to read this thread.
This thread isn't about the existence of god either. It has been about interpreting pearl jam's lyrics and about evolution v. ID.
naděje umírá poslední
I agree.
naděje umírá poslední
It is still a argument about God...
What Tim and I have been discussing is whether or not ID is science, some of the principles of ID as well as evolution. It has very little to do with whether god exists or not. We certainly didn't discuss that aspect and if we did it was only vaguely.
The interpretation of Ed's lyrics also have very little to do with whether god exists or not. To some people god exists and they can interpret certain things in a religious context. Other people don't believe in god and don't see that interpretation and disagree with it.
It is perfectly possible to discuss these things without discussing the existence of god.
If you think all philosophical debates about god are pointless and useless, so be it. I already stated that the god question is not a big one, in fact, a very small one to me. But I'm interested in hearing the other side.
The debate about ID is, imo, certainly not pointless. I think ID is a religious political movement that tries to force their unsubstantiated and imcomplete theories into science class, not through the conventional way, but through political pressure and by gaining support from the people by deliberately delivering false information about what the theory of evolution is and also about ID's position and the "evidence" ID has.
Either way, pointless or not, I'm just saying it's rather weird that you continue to read a thread and post in it even though you can't stand reading it.
naděje umírá poslední
NO I CANT STAND SEEING IT ON THE MAIN BOARD FOR DAYS!!!!! Hey isnt my opinion about the whole thread just as valid as your?
Admin
Buried for a year and two weeks and this is all you've got?
Actually, I could have commented "Ed IS God" which would have unearthed it, and then buried it again, all in one shovel.
Dude, would advise you to remove that link, or you might get slapped by the mods.
I agree- I feel that some things in life parallel my life with each album and each song/lyrics, and that is one of the best things that could ever happen in my life- I think it's wonderful how "go on a musical journey" was identified- it's the complete phrase I've been looking for ever since Ten came out- each album has had its own meaning to me, incl Into the Wild, and all of us have our own journeys with PJ, Ed, each musician, etc....
Yield's affirmation of faith and heavy allusions to the crucifixion of Jesus?
This isn't what I take from Yield at ALL.
The song faithful to me questions god and faith itself.
"The man upstairs is used to all of this noise
I'm through with screaming
And echoes nobody hears, it goes, it goes, it goes"
I see this as giving up on praying, the echoes go because no one is there to answer.
"M.Y.T.H. is
Belief in the game controls that keeps us in a box of fear"
Religion is used to control people, the notion hell is the fear that many people try to avoid and thus bring them to have faith. I mean come on you going to spend eternity burning if you don't accept Jesus.
GTF is about a man have a bad time and using pot to escape. Nothing to do with Jesus.
DTE
I'm the first mammal to wear pants, yeah
I'm at peace with my lust
I can kill 'cause in God I trust, yeah
It's evolution, baby
I'm a thief, I'm a liar
There's my church, I sing in the choir:
(hallelujah, hallelujah)
Um, I don't think Eddie can make it any clearer is distaste for religion and God.
I could go on with other examples from his songs, but I believe I am in the majority that Ed doesn't like religion and questions the existence of a God.
I am sorry you feel gutted but it's music take from it what you want. I don't trust religion and there most likely isn't a God, so Ed's lyrics offer me my affirmation.
In the MSG DVD or CD after singing Faithful Ed states how he is for Hope but not something bigger like a God. Those aren't the exact words but the general idea.
Any new realizations... would have to wait...
Til he had more time,... more time...
Time to dream,... to himself... he waves goodbye,
To himself... I'll see you on the other side...
I view this song about a guy who is bored with life and wishing to escape, have time for himself.
I think the other side is his dream world, when he's not awake and dealing with the boredom of his every day life.
I don't see the other side as an after life, it's the dream state where the guy in this song can have anything he wants.
Like Stone stated, this is the genius of Ed, he can take many different roles in his songs.
I think this person is just expressing his own experience with the band. It's ok to feel this way. If he feels like he lost a friend, that's the way it is.
Let it be.
Like I said in my post, it's music and take what it from what you want.
Not saying he is wrong or I am right, just showing why I feel the way I do.
Honestly, I dream of the day when "opposing forces" like democrats and republicans & science and religion can come together somehow and realize both sides are good because no one really knows everything anyways-we all just try in our own way, and each way is beautiful. What is not beautiful though is when people feel isolated and alone, which can come when a person feels that their ideas are some how rejected or dismissed (I think of a homeless man who has schitzophrenia and he thinks and feels no one believes him that he hears and sees things). As far as this topic of GOD,I think it is difficult for people to accept others beliefs other then their own because it takes away from the validity of their own and that in itself can be real fuck'en scary! We are all in the same boat; if we could just try to accept each other and learn from our differences without being scared that it will take away from our own beliefs-then we could be more tolerant, accepting and loving. Just some ideas here. 'Imagine' by John Lennon comes to mind.
This is my religion, as of this moment, in a nut shell (and believe me, it might change tomorrow!)
http://www.facebook.com/reqs.php#!/profile.php?ref=profile&id=1434776887
kristal_007@msn.com