Capitalism Sucks.

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  • Cropduster-80Cropduster-80 Posts: 1,608
    edited December 2021
    “I’d rather be a hypocrite than the same person forever” -Ad Rock

    Music/lyrics are a snippet from a moment in time, it’s static and never changing as opposed to the person who wrote it. I’ve said things years ago I no longer agree with. 
     
    Because I believed it then am I obligated to believe it now? 

    People are allowed to change. I respect someone more for evolving than staying the same for no reason other than habit. 

    a lot of people here have noted a change over time.  I just fail to see why that’s bad. It’s different and maybe no longer aligns the same way with you. That’s ok 
    Post edited by Cropduster-80 on
  • JeBurkhardtJeBurkhardt Posts: 2,753
    The minute you put someone up on a pedestal, the countdown begins until they do something to disappoint you and make you regret putting them up there. 
  • 2-feign-reluctance2-feign-reluctance TigerTown, USAPosts: 21,728
    Friends, all this black and white thinking, Ed is either 100% in line with everything he's ever said or he's something of a fallen hero to you is understood, but all that is really going to do for you is author more misery. A huge problem with our society right now is not taking the time to understand one another, and since Ed is so far distanced from any of us to ask him, we are making assessments on partial information, inferring intentions that may not be accurate, and then fucking each other up over it. I can definitely do a better job of trying to understand what you let down folks are conveying. If I came off wrong, I apologize! 
    www.cluthelee.com
  • “I’d rather be a hypocrite than the same person forever” -Ad Rock
    Not a very good comparison. Ad Rock's talking here about how their beliefs/stances in the 90's contradicted their misogyny of the 80's. So they changed, but for the better.  
    2000: Camden 1, 2003: Philly, State College, Camden 1, MSG 2, Hershey, 2004: Reading, 2005: Philly, 2006: Camden 1, 2, East Rutherford 1, 2007: Lollapalooza, 2008: Camden 1, Washington D.C., MSG 1, 2, 2009: Philly 1, 2, 3, 4, 2010: Bristol, MSG 2, 2011: PJ20 1, 2, 2012: Made In America, 2013: Brooklyn 2, Philly 2, 2014: Denver, 2015: Global Citizen Festival, 2016: Philly 2, Fenway 1, 2018: Fenway 1, 2, 2021: Sea. Hear. Now.

    Pearl Jam bootlegs:
    http://wegotshit.blogspot.com
  • Cropduster-80Cropduster-80 Posts: 1,608
    edited December 2021
    “I’d rather be a hypocrite than the same person forever” -Ad Rock
    Not a very good comparison. Ad Rock's talking here about how their beliefs/stances in the 90's contradicted their misogyny of the 80's. So they changed, but for the better.  
    Change for better or worse depends on your point of view. I’m aware of the context.  Point is you can’t hold someone to what they use to say or believe if they no longer believe it.  You don’t give them room to evolve in whatever way they choose

    now as to the new single on the album.  That’s confusing unless he is talking about himself somehow 
    Post edited by Cropduster-80 on
  • Ledbetterman10Ledbetterman10 Posts: 15,958
    edited December 2021
    “I’d rather be a hypocrite than the same person forever” -Ad Rock
    Not a very good comparison. Ad Rock's talking here about how their beliefs/stances in the 90's contradicted their misogyny of the 80's. So they changed, but for the better.  
    Change for better or worse depends on your point of view. I’m aware of the context.  Point is you can’t hold someone to what they use to say or believe if they no longer believe it.  You don’t give them room to evolve in whatever way they choose
    Sure but you can call them a hypocrite if you want to.

    Take Donald Trump for instance. He is very against illegal immigration, except he isn't, because prior to running for president, he was an illegal immigration enabler, hiring hundreds if not thousands to work at his golf courses and hotels. "But now I'm running for president, so forget about that." You could say "you can’t hold someone to what they use to say or believe if they no longer believe it." But he's still a hypocrite. 

    In 1995, Eddie said, "It’s extremely important that [our shows] are available to everyone, that if they’d like to attend they’re able to. Also, when you start having $50 ($90 in today's money) tickets, all of a sudden you’re changing your audience. And that’s a frightening thought, playing only to people that can afford a $50 ticket."

    So what's changed? Is he no longer "frightened" by changing his audience? Is it no longer "extremely important" that his shows are available to everyone? The answer to both questions is no. So just how Trump would say "Forget about what I said in the past, I want your vote," Eddie's saying "Forget about what I said in the past, I want more money."

    2000: Camden 1, 2003: Philly, State College, Camden 1, MSG 2, Hershey, 2004: Reading, 2005: Philly, 2006: Camden 1, 2, East Rutherford 1, 2007: Lollapalooza, 2008: Camden 1, Washington D.C., MSG 1, 2, 2009: Philly 1, 2, 3, 4, 2010: Bristol, MSG 2, 2011: PJ20 1, 2, 2012: Made In America, 2013: Brooklyn 2, Philly 2, 2014: Denver, 2015: Global Citizen Festival, 2016: Philly 2, Fenway 1, 2018: Fenway 1, 2, 2021: Sea. Hear. Now.

    Pearl Jam bootlegs:
    http://wegotshit.blogspot.com
  • EddieredderEddieredder Posts: 422
    edited December 2021
    Food for thought. Have you considered venue costs have probably risen? Do you think promoters are charging more or less following a year they didn't get paid? And yes, artists are gonna charge more too. It all adds up and gets passed on. Keep that in mind.  
    Post edited by Eddieredder on
  • JimmyVJimmyV Boston's MetroWestPosts: 16,880
    Anyone know offhand how much Trey Anastasio's tickets are when he tours with the Trey Anastasio Band? That might be the perfect apples to apples comparison. 
    ___________________________________________

    "...I changed by not changing at all..."
  • tdawetdawe Posts: 1,750
    I think we should separate two different criticisms here:

    1. Eddie Vedder, the artist at least partially famous for, and beloved by his fans for, taking multiple stands on behalf of the principle that rock shows should be accessible to people who don’t have a ton of disposable income laying around (including most notably young people), is a hypocrite for charging $200 for certain tickets to his show. I personally disagree with this for a few reasons, but if you’re someone for whom that facet of his persona was really important (I’ve always admired him for it), I could see being upset about it.

    2. Eddie Vedder, outspoken advocate for leftist/redistributive/whatever politics, is a hypocrite for charging $200 for certain tickets to his show. I have a much harder time buying this one - as someone who is a fan of both (mostly) the type of political views espoused by Eddie AND getting paid what I’m worth for doing my job, I think it’s both unfair and clearly counterproductive to insist that clearing a good paycheck prohibits you from honestly fighting for a better world. 
  • CM189191CM189191 Minneapolis via ChicagoPosts: 6,529
    “I’d rather be a hypocrite than the same person forever” -Ad Rock
    Not a very good comparison. Ad Rock's talking here about how their beliefs/stances in the 90's contradicted their misogyny of the 80's. So they changed, but for the better.  
    Change for better or worse depends on your point of view. I’m aware of the context.  Point is you can’t hold someone to what they use to say or believe if they no longer believe it.  You don’t give them room to evolve in whatever way they choose
    Sure but you can call them a hypocrite if you want to.

    Take Donald Trump for instance. He is very against illegal immigration, except he isn't, because prior to running for president, he was an illegal immigration enabler, hiring hundreds if not thousands to work at his golf courses and hotels. "But now I'm running for president, so forget about that." You could say "you can’t hold someone to what they use to say or believe if they no longer believe it." But he's still a hypocrite. 

    In 1995, Eddie said, "It’s extremely important that [our shows] are available to everyone, that if they’d like to attend they’re able to. Also, when you start having $50 ($90 in today's money) tickets, all of a sudden you’re changing your audience. And that’s a frightening thought, playing only to people that can afford a $50 ticket."

    So what's changed? Is he no longer "frightened" by changing his audience? Is it no longer "extremely important" that his shows are available to everyone? The answer to both questions is no. So just how Trump would say "Forget about what I said in the past, I want your vote," Eddie's saying "Forget about what I said in the past, I want more money."



    I still think the way this quote is being interpreted misses the point

    It sounds to me that Eddie was complaining that increasing ticket prices were out of their control due to TicketMaster fees. 
    And TicketMaster had a monopoly on ticketing.

    The band/venue/etc can control the ticket prices to the extent that they need to cover their overhead/profit

    But there was no one else to deal with beside TicketMaster for ticketing at the time.
    WI 6/27/98 WI 10/8/00 MO 10/11/00 IL 4/23/03 MN 6/26/06 MN 6/27/06 WI 6/30/06 IL 8/5/07 IL 8/21/08 (EV) IL 8/22/08 (EV) IL 8/23/09 IL 8/24/09 IN 5/7/10 IL 6/28/11 (EV) IL 6/29/11 (EV) WI 9/3/11 WI 9/4/11 IL 7/19/13 NE 10/09/14 IL 10/17/14 MN 10/19/14 FL 4/11/16 IL 8/20/16 IL 8/22/16 IL 08/18/18 IL 08/20/18 IT 07/05/2020 AT 07/07/2020
  • Everyone is a hypocrite to some extent. EVERYONE. Therefore I can't throw stones. 
  • tino_11tino_11 Posts: 1,731
    tdawe said:
    I think we should separate two different criticisms here:

    1. Eddie Vedder, the artist at least partially famous for, and beloved by his fans for, taking multiple stands on behalf of the principle that rock shows should be accessible to people who don’t have a ton of disposable income laying around (including most notably young people), is a hypocrite for charging $200 for certain tickets to his show. I personally disagree with this for a few reasons, but if you’re someone for whom that facet of his persona was really important (I’ve always admired him for it), I could see being upset about it.

    2. Eddie Vedder, outspoken advocate for leftist/redistributive/whatever politics, is a hypocrite for charging $200 for certain tickets to his show. I have a much harder time buying this one - as someone who is a fan of both (mostly) the type of political views espoused by Eddie AND getting paid what I’m worth for doing my job, I think it’s both unfair and clearly counterproductive to insist that clearing a good paycheck prohibits you from honestly fighting for a better world. 
    However, releasing an album with a melting glacier on the cover and having Greta Thunberg in your music video, whilst you jump on a private jet to play to a corporate crowd of a few hundred people is going to raise questions.

    I know I sound like I’m on a witch-hunt here, I’m really not, I’ve just lost a bit of belief in Ed/PJ over the way they handle their business. A tangent too, but I’ve never seen any band rearrange dates for shows and not even apologise despite putting thousands of people out of pocket (Amsterdam 2022 shows). 
    2010: London
    2012: Manchester I, Manchester II, Manchester (EV) 
    2014: Milan, Leeds, Milton Keynes 
    2017: London II (EV) 
    2018: Amsterdam I, London I, Prague, London II 
    2019: London (EV)
    2022: London I, London II, Budapest, Krakow, Amsterdam
  • Another thing. Capitalism doesn't suck. Look at all the people lined up to get into this country, Germany, England and so on. I don't see anyone trying to get into communist and socialist countries. Like China, Cuba, Venezuela, russia, etc. 
  • Spiritual_ChaosSpiritual_Chaos Posts: 26,348
    edited December 2021
    Long Red said:
    Wild how expensive the tix are for the Ed solo shows. It's almost comical. Who the hell has an extra $500 laying around for a pair of concert tix? My sweet lord.
    why is he even charging at all? such a dick move, Ed.
    bla bla bla

    Greta > Eddie

    GRETA JAM
    Post edited by Spiritual_Chaos on
    "Mostly I think that people react sensitively because they know you’ve got a point"
  • tino_11 said:
    tdawe said:
    I think we should separate two different criticisms here:

    1. Eddie Vedder, the artist at least partially famous for, and beloved by his fans for, taking multiple stands on behalf of the principle that rock shows should be accessible to people who don’t have a ton of disposable income laying around (including most notably young people), is a hypocrite for charging $200 for certain tickets to his show. I personally disagree with this for a few reasons, but if you’re someone for whom that facet of his persona was really important (I’ve always admired him for it), I could see being upset about it.

    2. Eddie Vedder, outspoken advocate for leftist/redistributive/whatever politics, is a hypocrite for charging $200 for certain tickets to his show. I have a much harder time buying this one - as someone who is a fan of both (mostly) the type of political views espoused by Eddie AND getting paid what I’m worth for doing my job, I think it’s both unfair and clearly counterproductive to insist that clearing a good paycheck prohibits you from honestly fighting for a better world. 
    However, releasing an album with a melting glacier on the cover and having Greta Thunberg in your music video, whilst you jump on a private jet to play to a corporate crowd of a few hundred people is going to raise questions.

    I know I sound like I’m on a witch-hunt here, I’m really not, I’ve just lost a bit of belief in Ed/PJ over the way they handle their business. A tangent too, but I’ve never seen any band rearrange dates for shows and not even apologise despite putting thousands of people out of pocket (Amsterdam 2022 shows). 
    Its a fair point. But you can't we nitpick anything like this can't you? Are all his cars hybrids? Should we go through his trash to see if there are plastic bags? Are all the venues sustainable?

    I've never flown on a private plane or been offered a ton of money to play a few songs. But a lot of us would be lying to say they would turn that down. 

    Does capitalism suck? Sure. I'm also writing this from my corporate job, on my iphone, over comcast internet, drinking bottled water, while wearing Nikes and looking at all my tour posters. None of these things exclude me from caring about issues or causes. 
  • kaw753kaw753 Posts: 446
    Can I ask a stupid question? I will assume yes.

    People were literally giving tickets away to see Pearl Jam, Beck, Brandi Carlile and More on the beach 2 months ago. Why would someone want to spend $250 to see Eddie and a cover band in San Diego or LA when they could have gone for free in October? 
  • tdawetdawe Posts: 1,750
    kaw753 said:
    Can I ask a stupid question? I will assume yes.

    People were literally giving tickets away to see Pearl Jam, Beck, Brandi Carlile and More on the beach 2 months ago. Why would someone want to spend $250 to see Eddie and a cover band in San Diego or LA when they could have gone for free in October? 
    One show had a lot of tickets available and the other has a much smaller number of tickets available. 
  • Tim SimmonsTim Simmons Posts: 6,138
    edited December 2021
    Just a heads up, but Netjets (the company Ed has played for and I assume "owns" a plane through) is a carbon neutral company. And they take green initiatives seriously (well, as seriously as a corporation does).

    https://www.netjets.com/en-us/expanded-global-sustainability-program
  • Tim SimmonsTim Simmons Posts: 6,138
    “I’d rather be a hypocrite than the same person forever” -Ad Rock

    Music/lyrics are a snippet from a moment in time, it’s static and never changing as opposed to the person who wrote it. I’ve said things years ago I no longer agree with. 
     
    Because I believed it then am I obligated to believe it now? 

    People are allowed to change. I respect someone more for evolving than staying the same for no reason other than habit. 

    a lot of people here have noted a change over time.  I just fail to see why that’s bad. It’s different and maybe no longer aligns the same way with you. That’s ok 

  • But please do not tell other fans that they can't call him a hypocrite and that they can't feel betrayed. 
    You're in love with an old version of someone. 
    He released "The Haves" 2 weeks ago. 
    This is a fact.  For all the people saying this is a 10-20 year old version of Ed, he released that song 2 weeks ago.  Not years ago.  And he is going on tour based off the strength of his name and his NEW song "The Haves".  Sorry, you can't use the "Everyone changes" argument. This was literally 2 weeks ago.  Obviously he still has it out for the Haves while being a Have.  Tough to rationalize this.
    There's no need to say goodbye
  • Spiritual_ChaosSpiritual_Chaos Posts: 26,348
    edited December 2021
    DP13 said:
    He can charge whatever he wants.  The price is not out of line when compared to other artists. The shows will instantly sell out ultimately proving the price isn't too high. 

    BUT

    You can't charge $250 and not be a HYPOCRITE ------ when:

    You demanded Letterman go commercial free to get you to perform.  You made venues cover up advertising at your shows.  You have several songs and lyrics about greed and money.  You've had countless rants at your concerts about greed and money. You said Third Eye Blind couldn't cover Baba O'Riley because they were a corporate rock band.  You repeatedly said you'd keep ticket prices low and judged bands for not doing the same.  You threw shade at the industry for not backing you in your battle against Ticketmaster over fees making tickets too expensive.  You kicked out a band member allegedly in part due to his love of fame and money.  You said you had to buy PT's guitar at auction so it didn't go to some rich asshole banker. ETC ETC ETC 

    It is also OK for fans to take the stance that you know Ed has changed (much like many of "us" have) but you still love him, enjoy his music and shows. That is where I'm at. 

    But please do not tell other fans that they can't call him a hypocrite and that they can't feel betrayed. 
    You're in love with an old version of someone. 
    Then why does that person still sit with a mask of his old himself on like some weird nightmare version of Kubricks Eyes Wide Shut. Or as when Freddy is at Nancys font door with a mask of Tina on to torment Nancy? ARE WE ALL RUNNING UP THE STAIRS STEPPING IN OATMEAL MUSH?!

    Take of the mask then. Or stay the course like Neil Young. 

    But at the same time — what is the median price for a ticket for Beacon theatre? Is Eddie that far off for such a small place?
    Post edited by Spiritual_Chaos on
    "Mostly I think that people react sensitively because they know you’ve got a point"
  • pjhawkspjhawks Posts: 11,629
    edited December 2021
    But please do not tell other fans that they can't call him a hypocrite and that they can't feel betrayed. 
    You're in love with an old version of someone. 
    He released "The Haves" 2 weeks ago. 
    This is a fact.  For all the people saying this is a 10-20 year old version of Ed, he released that song 2 weeks ago.  Not years ago.  And he is going on tour based off the strength of his name and his NEW song "The Haves".  Sorry, you can't use the "Everyone changes" argument. This was literally 2 weeks ago.  Obviously he still has it out for the Haves while being a Have.  Tough to rationalize this.
    If he released that song 25 years ago he'd still be playing in bars :blush:   yes that means I think it's not uhh quite up to standard.  I was semi-excited after The Long Way than this was the 2nd single. ugh. just my 2 cents


    Post edited by pjhawks on
  • pjhawks said:
    But please do not tell other fans that they can't call him a hypocrite and that they can't feel betrayed. 
    You're in love with an old version of someone. 
    He released "The Haves" 2 weeks ago. 
    This is a fact.  For all the people saying this is a 10-20 year old version of Ed, he released that song 2 weeks ago.  Not years ago.  And he is going on tour based off the strength of his name and his NEW song "The Haves".  Sorry, you can't use the "Everyone changes" argument. This was literally 2 weeks ago.  Obviously he still has it out for the Haves while being a Have.  Tough to rationalize this.
    If he released that song 25 years ago he'd still be playing in bars :blush:   yes that means I think it's not uhh quite up to standard.  I was semi-excited after The Long Way than this was the 2nd single. ugh. just my 2 cents


    Im pretty sure The Long Rosd was 1995. 
    "Mostly I think that people react sensitively because they know you’ve got a point"
  • HughFreakingDillonHughFreakingDillon WinnipegPosts: 32,346
    I routinely pay $70 or more to see my favourite canadian bands (Headstones, Watchmen, Tea Party, Big Wreck) that none of you have ever heard of. Here we have one of the most talented and famous front men of all time, playing in smaller theatres, with an all star backing band of incredible and famous musicians; the complaining doesn't really add up to the reality. 

    If you didn't see this coming a mile away, covid or no covid, you don't understand the demand of the musician before you. 
    I think I'll move to Australia


  • apirk72apirk72 Posts: 389
    I don't know if you want to use Neil as your North Star especially when it comes to ticket prices.  Paid well over $100 the multiple times I've seen him in theaters well before the pandemic, it was also worth every penny.  You also know Neil Young has probably flown on private planes and done private shows.  Going forward Neil Young Theater tickets will be these same prices.

    You guys are all asking someone you don't know to do something that suits you not even caring if hey maybe he doesn't want to do a huge tour or play arenas.  People on this board calling out Eddie on greed is a joke.  The majority of threads here are about people wanting something from the band or complaining that whatever they are doing doesn't fit their needs.
  • PureandEasyPureandEasy Posts: 5,712
    edited December 2021
    deweil said:
    igotid88 said:
    People need to temper expectations. Small venues. It’s gonna be really really hard to get tix. You are complaining about prices of things you probably can’t get in the first place
    That's another thing they'll complain about if the tickets were $40 and and they couldn't get in
    The threads complaining about not getting tickets will outnumber the threads complaining about ticket prices.
    Millions of people going for thousands of tickets. Do the math. You should go into this EXPECTING to lose
    millions? i don't think so. 

    lol, I read this as EddieVedder said.  Got a good laugh out of it myself.

    Two children, whose bodies had been so pulverized by the bullets fired at them, decapitated, whose flesh had been so ripped apart, that the only clue as to their identities was the blood spattered cartoon clothes still clinging to them. Clinging for life and finding none.

    f*ck the second amendment
  • pjhawkspjhawks Posts: 11,629
    pjhawks said:
    But please do not tell other fans that they can't call him a hypocrite and that they can't feel betrayed. 
    You're in love with an old version of someone. 
    He released "The Haves" 2 weeks ago. 
    This is a fact.  For all the people saying this is a 10-20 year old version of Ed, he released that song 2 weeks ago.  Not years ago.  And he is going on tour based off the strength of his name and his NEW song "The Haves".  Sorry, you can't use the "Everyone changes" argument. This was literally 2 weeks ago.  Obviously he still has it out for the Haves while being a Have.  Tough to rationalize this.
    If he released that song 25 years ago he'd still be playing in bars :blush:   yes that means I think it's not uhh quite up to standard.  I was semi-excited after The Long Way than this was the 2nd single. ugh. just my 2 cents


    Im pretty sure The Long Rosd was 1995. 
    total mind slip. i've updated it. had the Long Road on my mind as had played it earlier.  
  • HughFreakingDillonHughFreakingDillon WinnipegPosts: 32,346
    it has nothing to do with if ed's changed as a person or not, it's the CIRCUMSTANCES that have changed that have likely contributed to his alleged "hypocrisy". 

    $500 is a lot of money to a lot of people. Myself included. Doesn't mean he shouldn't be charging it. 

    I saw PJ and about 40 other amazing bands at a weekend festival in 1993. For $30. And the cost of losing a shoe in the mud. 

    I remember refusing to go see AIC open for Van Hagar because of the "outrageous" price of $40. Imagine that. lol. I didn't cry about it. I just didn't go. I regret that decision all the fucking time now. I could have seen layne staley in the flesh for a paltry $40. 

    imagine what it will cost to see Ed if he's still doing it when he's Bob Dylan's age. (prepare to sell your sealed Benny)

    Times change. Circumstances change. Move with it or be left behind. 
    I think I'll move to Australia


  • RyGuyRyGuy Posts: 255
    apirk72 said:
    The majority of threads here are about people wanting something from the band or complaining that whatever they are doing doesn't fit their needs.
    PREACH.
    09/04/93 * 07/19/98 * 11/05/00 * 05/30/03 * 09/02/05 * 09/04/05 * 09/05/05 * 09/07/05 * 07/21/06 * 07/22/06 * 04/02/08 (eV) * 04/03/08 (eV) * 09/21/09 * 09/22/09 * 09/25/09 * 07/15/11 (eV) * 09/25/11 * 12/04/13 * 08/10/18
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