Lots of talk about basic gun safety shit. Almost makes me think one should have to pass a gun safety test/course before being able to purchase and/or handle a deadly weapon. We do that with cars. Why not guns? Seems reasonable.
Only on movie sets. Actors need to be “responsible.” More so than a real gun owner.
Do I detect just a hint of sarcasm here?
It’s hard to take those advocating more forcefully for restrictions on gun handling and safety protocols on movie sets when only 6 states require any type of “training “ prior to becoming a “responsible” gun owner. It seems that almost every day someone is shot and/or killed, many of them children, in ‘Murica by a “responsible” gun owner or via their behavior. Crickets. A waning actor who is gifted in his abilities but apparently an asshole lib in his personal life and the advocacy for all kinds of consequences and “training” and “responsibility,” etc. from those who normally are fine with the status quo is laughable. It’s a joke.
Why is Alec Baldwin any different than the thousands that came before him since 1990, when the last death from a gun occurred on a movie set? But I bet those movie sets do make changes and it’ll be another 20 years before it happens again while outside in ‘Murica, it’ll probably happen tomorrow and nothing will change.
It's a controlled environment where actors are relying on someone w training to guide them through the movie. They aren't handling a gun to protect themselves, it's acting.
Of course there is a difference.
similar to a parent leaving a weapon just laying around accessable. they arent geld accountable when a child finds and fires said weapon. killing or injuring others. THEN its an accident.
I would go as far as to say that all firearm accidents result from negligence on someone’s part. When it is a minor, the parents are ultimately responsible for their children’s actions and should face charges if they leave a firearm out for a child to find.
I’m all for people owning firearms, but will always hold that they should be held accountable if unsafe with them. Alec Baldwin is an adult and is responsible for the safety of a firearm in his hands…period.
Do it like one of the top 5-6 Countries in the world does it:
To apply and obtain a gun license, the perspective gun owner approaches the local police. The applicant must be in good standing and at least 18 years old. There may be exceptions for a younger aged applicant to be granted a license. The applicant must be a member of an approved shooting club for at least six months or have passed a hunting examination (jägarexamen). Being a member of a shooting club is the most utilized route to legally acquire pistols for sport shooting, while passing a hunting exam, is for hunting rifles. Note: a gun registered for sport shooting may not be used in hunting. However a licensed gun user is allowed to hunt without passing a hunting exam, if you are chaperoned (accompanied and guided) by someone that has passed that exam.
From the age of 15 years, one may take the hunting exam. It is lawful for a person with a gun license to lend his or her gun to a person at least 15 years and older, under supervision. A Swede may be given a license to own up to six hunting rifles, ten pistols or a combination of eight rifles and pistols. There would need to be a valid reason for ownership of more firearms. It is stipulated that all firearms are to be stored/kept in an approved gun safe.
It is illegal for a civilian in Sweden to carry a firearm, unless for a specific, legal purpose;such as hunting or attending shooting ranges. To transport firearms, there are rules to adhere to;the general regulations are that the gun must be unloaded, hidden and transported in a safe and secure way under supervision.
"Mostly I think that people react sensitively because they know you’ve got a point"
Lots of talk about basic gun safety shit. Almost makes me think one should have to pass a gun safety test/course before being able to purchase and/or handle a deadly weapon. We do that with cars. Why not guns? Seems reasonable.
And I don’t remember anyone excusing gun owners from basic gun safety. Pretty much all gun owners here are for that. No one is expecting more from Alec than anyone else. Just “I’m an actor” isn’t an excuse to not know.
I’m actually really surprised it doesn’t fall under common sense gun law to require anyone handling a gun to have basic knowledge of a gun and be able to check if it’s loaded. Sounds like a terrible idea to me to tell someone to point a real gun at someone and pull the trigger to not be able to check for himself if it’s loaded or not. Pretty sure they wouldn’t give the keys to a car to an actor who knows nothing about driving and expect them to drive on set. We’re not talking about being a gunsmith expert here, but to be able to check if it’s loaded? Why is that such a terrible idea?
Agreed. And like with passing a test to earn a drivers license all gun owners should also be required to carry a license. Seems reasonable.
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
Lots of talk about basic gun safety shit. Almost makes me think one should have to pass a gun safety test/course before being able to purchase and/or handle a deadly weapon. We do that with cars. Why not guns? Seems reasonable.
And I don’t remember anyone excusing gun owners from basic gun safety. Pretty much all gun owners here are for that. No one is expecting more from Alec than anyone else. Just “I’m an actor” isn’t an excuse to not know.
I’m actually really surprised it doesn’t fall under common sense gun law to require anyone handling a gun to have basic knowledge of a gun and be able to check if it’s loaded. Sounds like a terrible idea to me to tell someone to point a real gun at someone and pull the trigger to not be able to check for himself if it’s loaded or not. Pretty sure they wouldn’t give the keys to a car to an actor who knows nothing about driving and expect them to drive on set. We’re not talking about being a gunsmith expert here, but to be able to check if it’s loaded? Why is that such a terrible idea?
Agreed. And like with passing a test to earn a drivers license all gun owners should also be required to carry a license. Seems reasonable.
And suffer the consequences when they’re not “responsible.” That NFL player would have been better off if he “accidentally” discharged his firearm and killed that woman and her dog rather than driving 154 mph while drunk. As it is, think he loses his gun privileges? Further, just what you want, someone ir”responsible” enough to drive 154 mph while drunk owning a firearm. Clearly they’re fit.
Can’t wait for the Supremes to strike down NY’s concealed carry law. That’ll surely make the place safer. Maybe they should just declare the whole state a movie set?
As long as this is still going, how is anyone questioning that anyone holding a real gun anywhere should not be responsible for at minimum a cursory safety inspection? I don't care if it is alec baldwin on a movie set with a revolver or kyle rittenhouse on the street with a rifle, if you don't have basic gun safety education you have no place near a gun. That isn't to say that actors should be held to a higher standard, just that everyone should be held to the same standard.
As long as this is still going, how is anyone questioning that anyone holding a real gun anywhere should not be responsible for at minimum a cursory safety inspection? I don't care if it is alec baldwin on a movie set with a revolver or kyle rittenhouse on the street with a rifle, if you don't have basic gun safety education you have no place near a gun. That isn't to say that actors should be held to a higher standard, just that everyone should be held to the same standard.
Isn't that part of the problem then? The laws need to be stricter
As long as this is still going, how is anyone questioning that anyone holding a real gun anywhere should not be responsible for at minimum a cursory safety inspection? I don't care if it is alec baldwin on a movie set with a revolver or kyle rittenhouse on the street with a rifle, if you don't have basic gun safety education you have no place near a gun. That isn't to say that actors should be held to a higher standard, just that everyone should be held to the same standard.
Isn't that part of the problem then? The laws need to be stricter
uniformity first. then see where improvements need to happen.
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
As long as this is still going, how is anyone questioning that anyone holding a real gun anywhere should not be responsible for at minimum a cursory safety inspection? I don't care if it is alec baldwin on a movie set with a revolver or kyle rittenhouse on the street with a rifle, if you don't have basic gun safety education you have no place near a gun. That isn't to say that actors should be held to a higher standard, just that everyone should be held to the same standard.
Isn't that part of the problem then? The laws need to be stricter
Investigators track ammunition in fatal film set shooting
By MORGAN LEE
1 minute ago
SANTA FE, N.M. (AP) — Authorities pursued new leads Tuesday on possible sources of live ammunition involved in actor Alec Baldwin's fatal shooting of a cinematographer on the New Mexico set of a western movie, as they searched the premises of an Albuquerque-based firearms and ammunition supplier.
The search took place after a provider of firearms and ammunition to the ill fated movie production for “Rust” told investigators that he “may know” where live rounds came from, describing ammunition he received from a friend in the past that had been “reloaded" by assembly from parts.
Seth Kenney and his business PDQ Arm & Prop provided movie-prop ammunition and weapons to the “Rust” production. Kenney told a detective on Oct. 29 that “a couple years back, he received ‘reloaded ammunition’ from a friend," and that the ammunition stood out in his memory because of a star-shaped company logo, according to an affidavit from the Santa Fe County Sheriff's Office that is leading the investigation.
Kenney could not be reached independently for comment. A sheriff's office spokesman declined to elaborate on details in the search warrant.
Investigators initially found 500 rounds of ammunition at the movie set on the outskirts of Santa Fe — a mix of blanks, dummy rounds and what appeared to be live rounds. Industry experts have said live rounds should never be on set.
Tuesday's search-warrant affidavit contains some new details about the handling and loading of the gun that killed Hutchins before it was handed to Baldwin by an assistant director.
Investigators say that the armorer on the film, Hannah Gutierrez Reed, loaded the gun with five dummy rounds on Oct. 21, but struggled to add a sixth round before a lunch break, when the revolver was locked in a truck. The final round was added after lunch when the gun was cleaned.
Gutierrez Reed "stated the guns were checked on set, however she ‘didn’t really check it too much' (the firearm), due to it being locked up at lunch,” according to the new affidavit.
Another movie crew member — the prop master for “Rust” — told investigators that ammunition was purchased from at least three sources for the production.
Jason Bowles, an attorney for Gutierrez Reed, called the search for evidence in Albuquerque a huge step forward toward determining the source of ammunition on the “Rust” set.
Investigators also described conversations with Gutierrez Reed's father — sharpshooter and movie consultant Thell Reed, who isn't listed as a participant on “Rust.”
Thell Reed said that prior to the “Rust” production he supplied Kenney with a can of live ammunition, during a firing-range training session for film actors. Reed said Kenney took a can of that ammunition back to New Mexico.
After the shooting, the prop master on the set shook a box of dummy rounds on the set for their characteristic rattle and said they did not rattle, possibly indicating live rounds.
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
haha. I was about to ask you the same thing. I'm not the one telling people what they can and can't/should and shouldn't post. that's you. I was simply asking why you think you have that authority. But sure, I'm the board police.
that second comment reminds me of when my kids get in shit and say "(the other one) did it first!". lol
haha. I was about to ask you the same thing. I'm not the one telling people what they can and can't/should and shouldn't post. that's you. I was simply asking why you think you have that authority. But sure, I'm the board police.
that second comment reminds me of when my kids get in shit and say "(the other one) did it first!". lol
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
haha. I was about to ask you the same thing. I'm not the one telling people what they can and can't/should and shouldn't post. that's you. I was simply asking why you think you have that authority. But sure, I'm the board police.
that second comment reminds me of when my kids get in shit and say "(the other one) did it first!". lol
Investigators track ammunition in fatal film set shooting
By MORGAN LEE
1 minute ago
SANTA FE, N.M. (AP) — Authorities pursued new leads Tuesday on possible sources of live ammunition involved in actor Alec Baldwin's fatal shooting of a cinematographer on the New Mexico set of a western movie, as they searched the premises of an Albuquerque-based firearms and ammunition supplier.
The search took place after a provider of firearms and ammunition to the ill fated movie production for “Rust” told investigators that he “may know” where live rounds came from, describing ammunition he received from a friend in the past that had been “reloaded" by assembly from parts.
Seth Kenney and his business PDQ Arm & Prop provided movie-prop ammunition and weapons to the “Rust” production. Kenney told a detective on Oct. 29 that “a couple years back, he received ‘reloaded ammunition’ from a friend," and that the ammunition stood out in his memory because of a star-shaped company logo, according to an affidavit from the Santa Fe County Sheriff's Office that is leading the investigation.
Kenney could not be reached independently for comment. A sheriff's office spokesman declined to elaborate on details in the search warrant.
Investigators initially found 500 rounds of ammunition at the movie set on the outskirts of Santa Fe — a mix of blanks, dummy rounds and what appeared to be live rounds. Industry experts have said live rounds should never be on set.
Tuesday's search-warrant affidavit contains some new details about the handling and loading of the gun that killed Hutchins before it was handed to Baldwin by an assistant director.
Investigators say that the armorer on the film, Hannah Gutierrez Reed, loaded the gun with five dummy rounds on Oct. 21, but struggled to add a sixth round before a lunch break, when the revolver was locked in a truck. The final round was added after lunch when the gun was cleaned.
Gutierrez Reed "stated the guns were checked on set, however she ‘didn’t really check it too much' (the firearm), due to it being locked up at lunch,” according to the new affidavit.
Another movie crew member — the prop master for “Rust” — told investigators that ammunition was purchased from at least three sources for the production.
Jason Bowles, an attorney for Gutierrez Reed, called the search for evidence in Albuquerque a huge step forward toward determining the source of ammunition on the “Rust” set.
Investigators also described conversations with Gutierrez Reed's father — sharpshooter and movie consultant Thell Reed, who isn't listed as a participant on “Rust.”
Thell Reed said that prior to the “Rust” production he supplied Kenney with a can of live ammunition, during a firing-range training session for film actors. Reed said Kenney took a can of that ammunition back to New Mexico.
After the shooting, the prop master on the set shook a box of dummy rounds on the set for their characteristic rattle and said they did not rattle, possibly indicating live rounds.
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
“I didn’t pull the trigger”….smells like bullshit. That’s really his argument? Sounds like he knows he’s fucked if it’s proven he did the trigger. https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2021/12/01/entertainment/alec-baldwin-interview/index.html This looks like nothing more than a cheap ass privileged was to try and sway public opinion. Just makes him look dumber in my opinion.
“I didn’t pull the trigger”….smells like bullshit. That’s really his argument? Sounds like he knows he’s fucked if it’s proven he did the trigger. https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2021/12/01/entertainment/alec-baldwin-interview/index.html This looks like nothing more than a cheap ass privileged was to try and sway public opinion. Just makes him look dumber in my opinion.
That's why I said the way they frame it is interesting. I expect to see the "I didn't pull the trigger" part from the question "So you weren't supposed to pull the trigger in that scene? your co actor was?"
It will line up different from how it was presented.
“I didn’t pull the trigger”….smells like bullshit. That’s really his argument? Sounds like he knows he’s fucked if it’s proven he did the trigger. https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2021/12/01/entertainment/alec-baldwin-interview/index.html This looks like nothing more than a cheap ass privileged was to try and sway public opinion. Just makes him look dumber in my opinion.
That's why I said the way they frame it is interesting. I expect to see the "I didn't pull the trigger" part from the question "So you weren't supposed to pull the trigger in that scene? your co actor was?"
It will line up different from how it was presented.
I was thinking he was using a metaphor or something. Gonna watch it soon.
Alec Baldwin says he isn’t responsible for ‘Rust’ shooting: 8 takeaways from his emotional interview By Sonia Rao December 02 at 11:34 PM EST In the six weeks since cinematographer Halyna Hutchins was killed on the New Mexico set of “Rust,” the Santa Fe County Sheriff’s Office periodically released information gleaned from its criminal investigation into the fatal shooting. Details emerged from interviews with crew members, but the general public had yet to hear at length from the person who was actually holding the gun. That changed Thursday night when ABC aired a prime-time special with Alec Baldwin — the actor’s first TV appearance since the gun went off in his hands on Oct. 21, killing Hutchins and wounding director Joel Souza. Speaking to ABC News’s George Stephanopoulos, Baldwin was highly emotional and often paused to collect himself. He refrained from sharing some details due to the ongoing investigation, but said he came “to say, I would go to any lengths to undo what happened.” Here are eight major takeaways from the interview, which is also set to stream on Hulu. 1. Baldwin said he wasn’t involved in hiring crew members. Baldwin was sitting on a wooden pew inside a church building on Bonanza Creek Ranch near Santa Fe while he practiced cross-drawing his weapon for a scene from the western “Rust.” Hannah Gutierrez, the armorer in charge of handling firearms on set, had left a .45 Long Colt revolver on a cart outside the building, from where first assistant director Dave Halls retrieved it. He said, “Cold gun!” while handing it to Baldwin, indicating to the actor that it did not contain any live rounds. But it did. In an interview with a detective from the Santa Fe Sheriff’s Office, Gutierrez said she had no idea how a live round wound up inside the revolver. Her attorneys, Jason Bowles and Robert Gorence, have stated that their client was stretched thin while working on the production due to having been hired for two separate roles: armorer and assistant props specialist. Multiple members of the crew have publicly accused “Rust” producers of cutting corners for the sake of the budget, and at the expense of everyone’s safety on set. Two have filed lawsuits and named Baldwin, who also produced the film, as a defendant. But while speaking to Stephanopoulos, Baldwin deflected some of the blame by saying that he was not among the producers who were in charge of hiring. Instead, he focused on tasks such as working with writer-director Souza to develop the story and to weigh in on casting. [The ‘Rust’ scene that Alec Baldwin was rehearsing strikes a familiar and played-out chord] 2. Hutchins directed Baldwin to point the gun toward her, according to him. One of the crew members suing Baldwin — along with numerous others who worked on the production — is script supervisor Mamie Mitchell, who stated in her complaint that the scene he was rehearsing did not call for a gun to be fired. Baldwin did not refute this point but clarified that the scene was meant to end with him cocking the gun while pointing it just to the side of the camera. That October afternoon, on the 12th day of a three-week shoot, Baldwin and Hutchins were taking part in a “marking rehearsal.” According to the actor, this involved the cinematographer looking at a monitor while directing him on how to hold the gun. He said he was told to point it right below her armpit for “a completely incidental shot, an angle that may not have ended up in the film at all.” At that point, Baldwin said, he began to cock the gun but did not pull the trigger. “I let go of the hammer of the gun, and the gun goes off,” Baldwin said, adding: “I didn’t pull the trigger. I would never point a gun at anyone and pull the trigger. Never.” Assistant director Halls’s attorney, Lisa Torraco, has said Halls also told her Baldwin did not pull the trigger. 3. Baldwin learned of Hutchins’s death hours later. When Baldwin saw Hutchins fall to the ground, he wondered whether she had fainted or had a heart attack. The idea of a live round being on set was so far-off to him that he didn’t consider the fact that she could have been shot, he said. The possibility did not hit him “until probably 45 minutes to an hour later.” Baldwin said he stood over Hutchins for about 60 seconds before he and the others were ushered out of the church. He remembered it took a while for her to be taken out of the building. Baldwin eventually went to the sheriff’s office, where an officer showed him a photo of the “.45 caliber slug” that had been removed from Souza’s arm. At the end of the police interview, hours after the shooting occurred, Baldwin was informed that Hutchins had not survived her injuries. He called his wife from the parking lot, a sight captured in widely circulated photos. 4. It wasn’t unusual on “Rust” for an assistant director to handle weapons. In response to reports of what occurred on the production that day, people who work in Hollywood wondered why Halls had been the one to hand Baldwin the gun. Experts previously told The Washington Post that firearms are only to be handled on set by the armorer, the actor and a designated props person. The first assistant director does not generally figure into the mix. Baldwin, however, described it as “inaccurate” to suggest Halls shouldn’t have handled the gun. The actor said it can be normal on a cramped set for people to be allowed into the room on an “as-needed basis.” Gutierrez has said she wasn’t allowed inside due to covid protocols. “In the protocols of the business, Hannah would hand me the gun 90 percent of the time,” Baldwin said. “But when we would say ‘Cut’, if Hannah were away from the set, I would hand Halls the gun.” This was only the second time in her career that Gutierrez, the 24-year-old daughter of renowned Hollywood armorer Thell Reed, had taken on the role herself. Baldwin said he had a safety demonstration with Gutierrez on Oct. 12, during which they spent an hour and a half shooting a pistol. He told Stephanopoulos that she did nothing to raise any red flags with him. [How to replace guns on movie sets] 5. Baldwin said he was unaware of discontent among crew members. First camera assistant Lane Luper, who resigned from his position on “Rust” the day before Hutchins died, told producers in an email that he was concerned about relaxed covid policies, a housing situation that required crew members to drive long distances and a lack of gun safety. Luper noted that two separate weapons had accidentally discharged on the set. Baldwin stated that he had been unaware of the workplace issues Luper described in the email. He said the camera assistant had come up to him after they wrapped one day and told Baldwin that members of the camera crew needed better hotel rooms, but did not mention the discharges. The camera crew walked off the set on Oct. 21, and another had to be hired in their place. Baldwin said he “never heard one word” about crew members feeling unsafe or mistreated. “I did not observe any safety or security issues at all in the time I was there,” he added. 6. Criminal charges seem unlikely for Baldwin. While Baldwin has been named as a defendant in the civil suits brought forward by Mitchell and chief lighting technician Serge Svetnoy, he told Stephanopoulos that “people who are in the know” told him that it is “highly unlikely” he would face any criminal charges for the incident. The criminal investigation will determine whose responsibility it was, Baldwin said. He operated on the basis that “the actor’s responsibility is to do what the prop armorer tells them to do.” “Everything gets slowed down [like] a Zapruder-esque film here,” he continued. “There’s only one question to be resolved and that is, where did the live round come from?” 7. The actor doesn’t know if he wants to work again. Baldwin told Stephanopoulos he is unsure whether he wants to continue acting. The opportunities haven’t dried up; Baldwin said he is still scheduled to shoot another film in January. What he seemed to know, however, was that he doesn’t want to work with guns on set again. [The Alec Baldwin shooting has some people calling for only computer-generated gunshots. It’s not as easy as it sounds.] 8. Baldwin doesn’t feel responsible for what happened. Baldwin is clearly upset by what happened, Stephanopoulos said. But does he feel any guilt? The actor very firmly said no, echoing previous statements that he was just doing what he was told. He noted that one of the two crew members suing him walked up to Baldwin immediately after the shooting and said, “You realize you had no responsibility for what happened here, don’t you?” While Baldwin declined to name the person, Stephanopoulos confirmed that it was Svetnoy. The lighting technician now feels differently. Baldwin does not. “I feel that someone is responsible for what happened, and I can’t say who that is but I know it’s not me,” Baldwin said. “Honest to God, if I felt I was responsible, I might have killed myself.”
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
So he pulled the hammer half back and let it go and that fired the gun? I've never tried that nor did I think it was possible.
That is very “implausible”. There is a very slight chance that that if type of gun was hit hard enough on the hammer that it may be enough force to activate the bullet’s primer, but even that would be extremely rare. Once cocked, there are mechanisms that prevent the hammer from being dropped without a trigger pull. He may not be aware he pulled the trigger, but he most likely did. He’s pretty stupid for saying some of these things as they are fairly easily disproven and self-incriminating. Here is a great little write up on this by people that know how guns work: https://thereload.com/analysis-yes-alec-baldwins-gun-could-have-fired-without-him-pulling-the-trigger/
UPDATE 12-2-2021 9:33 PM: Alec Baldwin offered further details on how the deadly shooting occurred in the full ABC News interview. Baldwin claims he acted at the direction of cinematographer Halyna Hutchins when he accidentally shot and killed her.
“I cock the gun. I go, ‘Can you see that? Can you see that? Can you see that?’” Baldwin told ABC. “And then I let go of the hammer of the gun, and the gun goes off. I let go of the hammer of the gun, the gun goes off.”
This version of events is even more difficult to square with the idea that Baldwin never pulled the trigger.
When the hammer is pulled back on a single-action revolver a series of sears on engaged which prevent it from moving back towards the chamber without the trigger being depressed. There are scenarios where the gun might be able to fire after the hammer is pulled back but without the trigger being pulled. However, they’re even more unlikely than a misfire with the hammer all the way down.
The first is that Baldwin managed to pull the hammer back far enough that releasing created a strong enough strike against the primer to set it off, but not far enough to engage the sear at quarter or half cock. That is, frankly, implausible.
The next possibility is a physical defect with the gun. The sears could have been so worn out they don’t catch the hammer as Baldwin manipulates it. But, that’s not likely either since it would be clear to anyone who handled the gun that it was broken.
What seems far more likely is Baldwin kept the trigger depressed as he pulled the hammer back. Then, when he released the hammer, the trigger kept the sears out of the way, and the gun fired. Perhaps Baldwin is making some kind of semantic argument about pulling a trigger rather than keeping it depressed while cocking the hammer, but that’s a distinction without a difference.
The most likely scenario remains that Baldwin had his finger on the trigger when the gun fired. His full comments make that even more likely.
Comments
Alec Baldwin is an adult and is responsible for the safety of a firearm in his hands…period.
Thats just common sense…
Just shows how many politicians have been bought off by the gun lobby…
I
It's a whole new way to make people safer and make money. Being a firearms instructor would be a dream job for me.
Do it like one of the top 5-6 Countries in the world does it:
To apply and obtain a gun license, the perspective gun owner approaches the local police. The applicant must be in good standing and at least 18 years old. There may be exceptions for a younger aged applicant to be granted a license. The applicant must be a member of an approved shooting club for at least six months or have passed a hunting examination (jägarexamen). Being a member of a shooting club is the most utilized route to legally acquire pistols for sport shooting, while passing a hunting exam, is for hunting rifles. Note: a gun registered for sport shooting may not be used in hunting. However a licensed gun user is allowed to hunt without passing a hunting exam, if you are chaperoned (accompanied and guided) by someone that has passed that exam.
From the age of 15 years, one may take the hunting exam. It is lawful for a person with a gun license to lend his or her gun to a person at least 15 years and older, under supervision. A Swede may be given a license to own up to six hunting rifles, ten pistols or a combination of eight rifles and pistols. There would need to be a valid reason for ownership of more firearms. It is stipulated that all firearms are to be stored/kept in an approved gun safe.
It is illegal for a civilian in Sweden to carry a firearm, unless for a specific, legal purpose;such as hunting or attending shooting ranges. To transport firearms, there are rules to adhere to;the general regulations are that the gun must be unloaded, hidden and transported in a safe and secure way under supervision.
www.headstonesband.com
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
Libtardaplorable©. And proud of it.
Brilliantati©
There are no kings inside the gates of eden
uniformity first. then see where improvements need to happen.
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
There are no kings inside the gates of eden
SANTA FE, N.M. (AP) — Authorities pursued new leads Tuesday on possible sources of live ammunition involved in actor Alec Baldwin's fatal shooting of a cinematographer on the New Mexico set of a western movie, as they searched the premises of an Albuquerque-based firearms and ammunition supplier.
The search took place after a provider of firearms and ammunition to the ill fated movie production for “Rust” told investigators that he “may know” where live rounds came from, describing ammunition he received from a friend in the past that had been “reloaded" by assembly from parts.
A revolver fired by Baldwin during a “Rust” rehearsal on Oct. 21 killed cinematographer Halyna Hutchins and left a projectile lodged in the shoulder of director Joel Souza, for doctors later to remove. Baldwin was told the revolver was “cold” and had no live rounds, investigators say.
Seth Kenney and his business PDQ Arm & Prop provided movie-prop ammunition and weapons to the “Rust” production. Kenney told a detective on Oct. 29 that “a couple years back, he received ‘reloaded ammunition’ from a friend," and that the ammunition stood out in his memory because of a star-shaped company logo, according to an affidavit from the Santa Fe County Sheriff's Office that is leading the investigation.
Kenney could not be reached independently for comment. A sheriff's office spokesman declined to elaborate on details in the search warrant.
Investigators initially found 500 rounds of ammunition at the movie set on the outskirts of Santa Fe — a mix of blanks, dummy rounds and what appeared to be live rounds. Industry experts have said live rounds should never be on set.
Investigators have described “some complacency” in how weapons were handled on the “Rust” set. They have said it is too soon to determine whether charges will be filed, amid independent civil lawsuits concerning liability in the fatal shooting.
Tuesday's search-warrant affidavit contains some new details about the handling and loading of the gun that killed Hutchins before it was handed to Baldwin by an assistant director.
Investigators say that the armorer on the film, Hannah Gutierrez Reed, loaded the gun with five dummy rounds on Oct. 21, but struggled to add a sixth round before a lunch break, when the revolver was locked in a truck. The final round was added after lunch when the gun was cleaned.
Gutierrez Reed "stated the guns were checked on set, however she ‘didn’t really check it too much' (the firearm), due to it being locked up at lunch,” according to the new affidavit.
Another movie crew member — the prop master for “Rust” — told investigators that ammunition was purchased from at least three sources for the production.
Jason Bowles, an attorney for Gutierrez Reed, called the search for evidence in Albuquerque a huge step forward toward determining the source of ammunition on the “Rust” set.
Investigators also described conversations with Gutierrez Reed's father — sharpshooter and movie consultant Thell Reed, who isn't listed as a participant on “Rust.”
Thell Reed said that prior to the “Rust” production he supplied Kenney with a can of live ammunition, during a firing-range training session for film actors. Reed said Kenney took a can of that ammunition back to New Mexico.
After the shooting, the prop master on the set shook a box of dummy rounds on the set for their characteristic rattle and said they did not rattle, possibly indicating live rounds.
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
www.headstonesband.com
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
that second comment reminds me of when my kids get in shit and say "(the other one) did it first!". lol
www.headstonesband.com
can you guess what my suggestion for you is?
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
thread integrity
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2021/12/01/entertainment/alec-baldwin-interview/index.html
This looks like nothing more than a cheap ass privileged was to try and sway public opinion. Just makes him look dumber in my opinion.
It will line up different from how it was presented.
Anyone?
https://www.washingtonpost.com/arts-entertainment/2021/12/02/alec-baldwin-interview-george-stephanopoulos-abc/
By Sonia Rao
December 02 at 11:34 PM EST
In the six weeks since cinematographer Halyna Hutchins was killed on the New Mexico set of “Rust,” the Santa Fe County Sheriff’s Office periodically released information gleaned from its criminal investigation into the fatal shooting. Details emerged from interviews with crew members, but the general public had yet to hear at length from the person who was actually holding the gun.
That changed Thursday night when ABC aired a prime-time special with Alec Baldwin — the actor’s first TV appearance since the gun went off in his hands on Oct. 21, killing Hutchins and wounding director Joel Souza. Speaking to ABC News’s George Stephanopoulos, Baldwin was highly emotional and often paused to collect himself. He refrained from sharing some details due to the ongoing investigation, but said he came “to say, I would go to any lengths to undo what happened.”
Here are eight major takeaways from the interview, which is also set to stream on Hulu.
1. Baldwin said he wasn’t involved in hiring crew members.
Baldwin was sitting on a wooden pew inside a church building on Bonanza Creek Ranch near Santa Fe while he practiced cross-drawing his weapon for a scene from the western “Rust.” Hannah Gutierrez, the armorer in charge of handling firearms on set, had left a .45 Long Colt revolver on a cart outside the building, from where first assistant director Dave Halls retrieved it. He said, “Cold gun!” while handing it to Baldwin, indicating to the actor that it did not contain any live rounds.
But it did. In an interview with a detective from the Santa Fe Sheriff’s Office, Gutierrez said she had no idea how a live round wound up inside the revolver. Her attorneys, Jason Bowles and Robert Gorence, have stated that their client was stretched thin while working on the production due to having been hired for two separate roles: armorer and assistant props specialist.
Multiple members of the crew have publicly accused “Rust” producers of cutting corners for the sake of the budget, and at the expense of everyone’s safety on set. Two have filed lawsuits and named Baldwin, who also produced the film, as a defendant. But while speaking to Stephanopoulos, Baldwin deflected some of the blame by saying that he was not among the producers who were in charge of hiring. Instead, he focused on tasks such as working with writer-director Souza to develop the story and to weigh in on casting.
[The ‘Rust’ scene that Alec Baldwin was rehearsing strikes a familiar and played-out chord]
2. Hutchins directed Baldwin to point the gun toward her, according to him.
One of the crew members suing Baldwin — along with numerous others who worked on the production — is script supervisor Mamie Mitchell, who stated in her complaint that the scene he was rehearsing did not call for a gun to be fired. Baldwin did not refute this point but clarified that the scene was meant to end with him cocking the gun while pointing it just to the side of the camera.
That October afternoon, on the 12th day of a three-week shoot, Baldwin and Hutchins were taking part in a “marking rehearsal.” According to the actor, this involved the cinematographer looking at a monitor while directing him on how to hold the gun. He said he was told to point it right below her armpit for “a completely incidental shot, an angle that may not have ended up in the film at all.”
At that point, Baldwin said, he began to cock the gun but did not pull the trigger.
“I let go of the hammer of the gun, and the gun goes off,” Baldwin said, adding: “I didn’t pull the trigger. I would never point a gun at anyone and pull the trigger. Never.”
Assistant director Halls’s attorney, Lisa Torraco, has said Halls also told her Baldwin did not pull the trigger.
3. Baldwin learned of Hutchins’s death hours later.
When Baldwin saw Hutchins fall to the ground, he wondered whether she had fainted or had a heart attack. The idea of a live round being on set was so far-off to him that he didn’t consider the fact that she could have been shot, he said. The possibility did not hit him “until probably 45 minutes to an hour later.”
Baldwin said he stood over Hutchins for about 60 seconds before he and the others were ushered out of the church. He remembered it took a while for her to be taken out of the building. Baldwin eventually went to the sheriff’s office, where an officer showed him a photo of the “.45 caliber slug” that had been removed from Souza’s arm. At the end of the police interview, hours after the shooting occurred, Baldwin was informed that Hutchins had not survived her injuries.
He called his wife from the parking lot, a sight captured in widely circulated photos.
4. It wasn’t unusual on “Rust” for an assistant director to handle weapons.
In response to reports of what occurred on the production that day, people who work in Hollywood wondered why Halls had been the one to hand Baldwin the gun. Experts previously told The Washington Post that firearms are only to be handled on set by the armorer, the actor and a designated props person. The first assistant director does not generally figure into the mix.
Baldwin, however, described it as “inaccurate” to suggest Halls shouldn’t have handled the gun. The actor said it can be normal on a cramped set for people to be allowed into the room on an “as-needed basis.” Gutierrez has said she wasn’t allowed inside due to covid protocols.
“In the protocols of the business, Hannah would hand me the gun 90 percent of the time,” Baldwin said. “But when we would say ‘Cut’, if Hannah were away from the set, I would hand Halls the gun.”
This was only the second time in her career that Gutierrez, the 24-year-old daughter of renowned Hollywood armorer Thell Reed, had taken on the role herself. Baldwin said he had a safety demonstration with Gutierrez on Oct. 12, during which they spent an hour and a half shooting a pistol. He told Stephanopoulos that she did nothing to raise any red flags with him.
[How to replace guns on movie sets]
5. Baldwin said he was unaware of discontent among crew members.
First camera assistant Lane Luper, who resigned from his position on “Rust” the day before Hutchins died, told producers in an email that he was concerned about relaxed covid policies, a housing situation that required crew members to drive long distances and a lack of gun safety. Luper noted that two separate weapons had accidentally discharged on the set.
Baldwin stated that he had been unaware of the workplace issues Luper described in the email. He said the camera assistant had come up to him after they wrapped one day and told Baldwin that members of the camera crew needed better hotel rooms, but did not mention the discharges.
The camera crew walked off the set on Oct. 21, and another had to be hired in their place. Baldwin said he “never heard one word” about crew members feeling unsafe or mistreated.
“I did not observe any safety or security issues at all in the time I was there,” he added.
6. Criminal charges seem unlikely for Baldwin.
While Baldwin has been named as a defendant in the civil suits brought forward by Mitchell and chief lighting technician Serge Svetnoy, he told Stephanopoulos that “people who are in the know” told him that it is “highly unlikely” he would face any criminal charges for the incident.
The criminal investigation will determine whose responsibility it was, Baldwin said. He operated on the basis that “the actor’s responsibility is to do what the prop armorer tells them to do.”
“Everything gets slowed down [like] a Zapruder-esque film here,” he continued. “There’s only one question to be resolved and that is, where did the live round come from?”
7. The actor doesn’t know if he wants to work again.
Baldwin told Stephanopoulos he is unsure whether he wants to continue acting. The opportunities haven’t dried up; Baldwin said he is still scheduled to shoot another film in January.
What he seemed to know, however, was that he doesn’t want to work with guns on set again.
[The Alec Baldwin shooting has some people calling for only computer-generated gunshots. It’s not as easy as it sounds.]
8. Baldwin doesn’t feel responsible for what happened.
Baldwin is clearly upset by what happened, Stephanopoulos said. But does he feel any guilt?
The actor very firmly said no, echoing previous statements that he was just doing what he was told. He noted that one of the two crew members suing him walked up to Baldwin immediately after the shooting and said, “You realize you had no responsibility for what happened here, don’t you?” While Baldwin declined to name the person, Stephanopoulos confirmed that it was Svetnoy.
The lighting technician now feels differently. Baldwin does not.
“I feel that someone is responsible for what happened, and I can’t say who that is but I know it’s not me,” Baldwin said. “Honest to God, if I felt I was responsible, I might have killed myself.”
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
A brash statement like that really needs some backing evidence.
https://thereload.com/analysis-yes-alec-baldwins-gun-could-have-fired-without-him-pulling-the-trigger/
UPDATE 12-2-2021 9:33 PM: Alec Baldwin offered further details on how the deadly shooting occurred in the full ABC News interview. Baldwin claims he acted at the direction of cinematographer Halyna Hutchins when he accidentally shot and killed her.
“I cock the gun. I go, ‘Can you see that? Can you see that? Can you see that?’” Baldwin told ABC. “And then I let go of the hammer of the gun, and the gun goes off. I let go of the hammer of the gun, the gun goes off.”
This version of events is even more difficult to square with the idea that Baldwin never pulled the trigger.
When the hammer is pulled back on a single-action revolver a series of sears on engaged which prevent it from moving back towards the chamber without the trigger being depressed. There are scenarios where the gun might be able to fire after the hammer is pulled back but without the trigger being pulled. However, they’re even more unlikely than a misfire with the hammer all the way down.
The first is that Baldwin managed to pull the hammer back far enough that releasing created a strong enough strike against the primer to set it off, but not far enough to engage the sear at quarter or half cock. That is, frankly, implausible.
The next possibility is a physical defect with the gun. The sears could have been so worn out they don’t catch the hammer as Baldwin manipulates it. But, that’s not likely either since it would be clear to anyone who handled the gun that it was broken.
What seems far more likely is Baldwin kept the trigger depressed as he pulled the hammer back. Then, when he released the hammer, the trigger kept the sears out of the way, and the gun fired. Perhaps Baldwin is making some kind of semantic argument about pulling a trigger rather than keeping it depressed while cocking the hammer, but that’s a distinction without a difference.
The most likely scenario remains that Baldwin had his finger on the trigger when the gun fired. His full comments make that even more likely.