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Tragic event in which Alec Baldwin 'discharged' prop gun that left cinematographer dead.

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Comments

  • brianluxbrianlux Moving through All Kinds of Terrain.Posts: 36,081
    mace1229 said:
    Although not yet officially confirmed, I’ve read several statements that there was a single live round in the gun. It just blows my mind that live rounds are even allowed on set. Why have any live rounds anywhere near the place? And why even use real guns at all? Just read the definition of a prop gun, and the definition includes a real gun used as a prop, which apparently is still very common.

    Totally agree.  It's amazing something this terrible could occur at all.
    "I believe in the mystery, and I don't want to take it any further than that. Maybe what I mean by that is love."
    -John Densmore











  • static111static111 Posts: 3,086

    Oh dear 


    Wow. Is this a real tweet?
  • brianluxbrianlux Moving through All Kinds of Terrain.Posts: 36,081
    static111 said:

    Oh dear 


    Wow. Is this a real tweet?

    The bigger question is, Why would someone (where ever this was first put up) post this old tweet at a time like this?
    "I believe in the mystery, and I don't want to take it any further than that. Maybe what I mean by that is love."
    -John Densmore











  • mickeyratmickeyrat Posts: 23,786
    brianlux said:
    static111 said:

    Oh dear 


    Wow. Is this a real tweet?

    The bigger question is, Why would someone (where ever this was first put up) post this old tweet at a time like this?

    gotta own the libs....
    _____________________________________SIGNATURE________________________________________________

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  • PoncierPoncier Posts: 12,926
    mickeyrat said:
    brianlux said:
    static111 said:

    Oh dear 


    Wow. Is this a real tweet?

    The bigger question is, Why would someone (where ever this was first put up) post this old tweet at a time like this?

    gotta own the libs....
    Well in fairness, it was a pretty douchey tweet by Baldwin, so can't be surprised someone would throw it back in his face.
    This weekend we rock Portland
  • Poncier said:
    mickeyrat said:
    brianlux said:
    static111 said:

    Oh dear 


    Wow. Is this a real tweet?

    The bigger question is, Why would someone (where ever this was first put up) post this old tweet at a time like this?

    gotta own the libs....
    Well in fairness, it was a pretty douchey tweet by Baldwin, so can't be surprised someone would throw it back in his face.
    I mean... the f'ing irony. 
  • static111static111 Posts: 3,086
    brianlux said:
    static111 said:

    Oh dear 


    Wow. Is this a real tweet?

    The bigger question is, Why would someone (where ever this was first put up) post this old tweet at a time like this?
    Same reason people bring up Trump's or any other A-Hole's old tweets when they end up doing something that they loudly and boisterously tweeted about.  Baldwin has a pretty long history of being an A hole.
  • MayDay10MayDay10 Posts: 11,114
    Poncier said:
    mickeyrat said:
    brianlux said:
    static111 said:

    Oh dear 


    Wow. Is this a real tweet?

    The bigger question is, Why would someone (where ever this was first put up) post this old tweet at a time like this?

    gotta own the libs....
    Well in fairness, it was a pretty douchey tweet by Baldwin, so can't be surprised someone would throw it back in his face.
    I agree with this.  If you're going to go out there and celebrate something outrageous like that to score political points, you are always subject to in coming back to haunt you.

    Maybe now he would have a bit more compassion for what happened to Cheney.  
  • mickeyratmickeyrat Posts: 23,786
    edited October 2021
    MayDay10 said:
    Poncier said:
    mickeyrat said:
    brianlux said:
    static111 said:

    Oh dear 


    Wow. Is this a real tweet?

    The bigger question is, Why would someone (where ever this was first put up) post this old tweet at a time like this?

    gotta own the libs....
    Well in fairness, it was a pretty douchey tweet by Baldwin, so can't be surprised someone would throw it back in his face.
    I agree with this.  If you're going to go out there and celebrate something outrageous like that to score political points, you are always subject to in coming back to haunt you.

    Maybe now he would have a bit more compassion for what happened to Cheney.  

    different circumstances completely.

    but still it was classless
    Post edited by mickeyrat on
    _____________________________________SIGNATURE________________________________________________

    Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
    you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
    memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
    another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
  • brianlux said:
    brianlux said:
    I'm not sure what they mean by a "live round" but this is disturbing:

    Prop Gun Fired by Alec Baldwin Contained Live Bullet, Says IATSE Local 44 — UPDATE

    The incident took place October 21 at the Bonanza Creek Ranch in Santa Fe County. It is under investigation.


    Cinematographer Halyna Hutchins was killed on the New Mexico set of the Alec Baldwin film “Rust” after she was shot by a prop gun fired by the film’s star and producer, Alec Baldwin. IATSE Local 44, which covers prop masters, sent an email to its members early Friday morning that said the gun used in the scene contained “a live round” and the production’s propmaster was not a member of Local 44. Director Joel Souza also was hit and injured by a bullet and was treated at an area hospital before being released.

    Sheriff’s deputies were dispatched to Bonanza Creek Ranch, a popular filming location south of Santa Fe, Thursday afternoon in response to a 911 caller reporting a shooting on set. No charges have been filed and the incident remains under investigation.


    More at link.


    A live round is a bullet.

    There is some confusion here.  One report I read (don't have the link now) said that a "live round" could contain no bullet (see below), but could have packing materials that could cause harm or fatality.

    Definitions:

    A "bullet" is merely the projectile that exits the barrel. Specifically, it's a non-spherical chunk of lead, copper or other material intended for use in a rifled barrel. The bullet's "caliber" is a numerical approximation of the bullet's diameter, often expressed in millimeters or hundredths of an inch.

    "Bullet" should not be used interchangeably with the term "cartridge," a bullet is a mere component of it. Cartridges consist of the case, primer, propellant and projectile. In the case of rifles and handguns, the bullet is seated in the cartridge case. Cartridge is also an accurate term for any shotshell.

    https://www.gunsandammo.com/editorial/9-misused-gun-terms/249625



    When you shoot "Live" rounds they have a bullet in them, they aren't blanks.  Blanks don't have a bullet.  That is what I have been taught as the definitions of the two.

    That is exactly what I said, thanks.


  • brianluxbrianlux Moving through All Kinds of Terrain.Posts: 36,081
    mickeyrat said:
    MayDay10 said:
    Poncier said:
    mickeyrat said:
    brianlux said:
    static111 said:

    Oh dear 


    Wow. Is this a real tweet?

    The bigger question is, Why would someone (where ever this was first put up) post this old tweet at a time like this?

    gotta own the libs....
    Well in fairness, it was a pretty douchey tweet by Baldwin, so can't be surprised someone would throw it back in his face.
    I agree with this.  If you're going to go out there and celebrate something outrageous like that to score political points, you are always subject to in coming back to haunt you.

    Maybe now he would have a bit more compassion for what happened to Cheney.  

    different circumstances completely.

    but still it was classless

    Exactly.
    "I believe in the mystery, and I don't want to take it any further than that. Maybe what I mean by that is love."
    -John Densmore











  • I saw Baldwin speak over the weekend.  He appears really distraught.  The way he was talking is not like him.  This man is going to go through hell some more unfortunately...
  • Meltdown99Meltdown99 None Of Your Business...Posts: 9,944
    Pleaseeeeee...
    He is going through nothing compared to the family of the ladies' family he shot...

    Who the fuck teaches gun safety to some are dumb as dog shit...


    Give Peas A Chance…
  • mickeyratmickeyrat Posts: 23,786
    edited November 2021
    wel, he IS going to live with the fact a gun, in his hand, discharged killing one and wounding another.

    thats not nothing.
    _____________________________________SIGNATURE________________________________________________

    Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
    you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
    memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
    another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
  • F Me In The BrainF Me In The Brain this knows everybody from other commetsPosts: 26,354
    Yeah, this must be horrible for him.  Reports indicate he was told the gun was clean/safe.  I am not a fan of his behavior, in general, but this is an awful thing to live with. 
    Just because it doesn't stack up next to the family of this women who needlessly died does not lessen what he now gets to carry.  Not like he murdered her or something. 

    The love he receives is the love that is saved
  • PJPOWERPJPOWER In Yo FacePosts: 6,405
    edited November 2021
    mickeyrat said:
    wel, he IS going to live with the fact a gun, in his hand, discharged killing one and wounding another.

    thats not nothing.
    And the fact that there are things he could have done to prevent it…:
    https://www.nssf.org/safety/rules-firearms-safety/
  • brianluxbrianlux Moving through All Kinds of Terrain.Posts: 36,081
    Doesn't it all go back to WTF was there a live round on the set in the first place? 
    "I believe in the mystery, and I don't want to take it any further than that. Maybe what I mean by that is love."
    -John Densmore











  • mickeyratmickeyrat Posts: 23,786
    PJPOWER said:
    mickeyrat said:
    wel, he IS going to live with the fact a gun, in his hand, discharged killing one and wounding another.

    thats not nothing.
    And the fact that there are things he could have done to prevent it…:
    https://www.nssf.org/safety/rules-firearms-safety/

    When I was in boot camp for usn, we had a day at a range. as I recall our basics were muzzle pointed downrange, finger off trigger unless positioned to fire. jammed? raise your hand keeping weapon downrange. there was no take mag out and check.

    that was a controlled situation.

    a movie set is less so.....

    either way you trust those you are told to.

    no need to respond.
    _____________________________________SIGNATURE________________________________________________

    Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
    you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
    memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
    another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
  • PJPOWERPJPOWER In Yo FacePosts: 6,405
    edited November 2021
    mickeyrat said:
    PJPOWER said:
    mickeyrat said:
    wel, he IS going to live with the fact a gun, in his hand, discharged killing one and wounding another.

    thats not nothing.
    And the fact that there are things he could have done to prevent it…:
    https://www.nssf.org/safety/rules-firearms-safety/

    When I was in boot camp for usn, we had a day at a range. as I recall our basics were muzzle pointed downrange, finger off trigger unless positioned to fire. jammed? raise your hand keeping weapon downrange. there was no take mag out and check.

    that was a controlled situation.

    a movie set is less so.....

    either way you trust those you are told to.

    no need to respond.
    I know you are not looking for a response, but you mentioned two things that would have prevented this death.  What would your range instructor have done if you crossed him with the muzzle?  And the gun on set was a revolver, so no mags to check…An easy glance could tell a person whether or not it was loaded and with what.  Alec could have just as easily shot himself in the nuts.
    Post edited by PJPOWER on
  • mickeyratmickeyrat Posts: 23,786
    PJPOWER said:
    mickeyat said:
    PJPOWER said:
    mickeyrat said:
    wel, he IS going to live with the fact a gun, in his hand, discharged killing one and wounding another.

    thats not nothing.
    And the fact that there are things he could have done to prevent it…:
    https://www.nssf.org/safety/rules-firearms-safety/

    When I was in boot camp for usn, we had a day at a range. as I recall our basics were muzzle pointed downrange, finger off trigger unless positioned to fire. jammed? raise your hand keeping weapon downrange. there was no take mag out and check.

    that was a controlled situation.

    a movie set is less so.....

    either way you trust those you are told to.

    no need to respond.
    I know you are not looking for a response, but you mentioned two things that would have prevented this death.  What would your range instructor have done if you crossed him with the muzzle?  And the gun on set was a revolver, so no mags to check…An easy glance could tell a person whether or not it was loaded and with what.  Alec could have just as easily shot himself in the nuts.

    a movie set is not a range.  its expected that other actors or crew behind the camera will be "down range" for the scene to work as written.

    as for it being a revolver, I might expect its probable but certainly possible faked lead of some sort might have been used for appearances sake.  waiting for whatever report will be released

    finally, gun safety courses seem to be an afterthought in most states laws. lets thank the political arm of the nra for that
    _____________________________________SIGNATURE________________________________________________

    Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
    you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
    memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
    another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
  • PJPOWERPJPOWER In Yo FacePosts: 6,405
    mickeyrat said:
    PJPOWER said:
    mickeyat said:
    PJPOWER said:
    mickeyrat said:
    wel, he IS going to live with the fact a gun, in his hand, discharged killing one and wounding another.

    thats not nothing.
    And the fact that there are things he could have done to prevent it…:
    https://www.nssf.org/safety/rules-firearms-safety/

    When I was in boot camp for usn, we had a day at a range. as I recall our basics were muzzle pointed downrange, finger off trigger unless positioned to fire. jammed? raise your hand keeping weapon downrange. there was no take mag out and check.

    that was a controlled situation.

    a movie set is less so.....

    either way you trust those you are told to.

    no need to respond.
    I know you are not looking for a response, but you mentioned two things that would have prevented this death.  What would your range instructor have done if you crossed him with the muzzle?  And the gun on set was a revolver, so no mags to check…An easy glance could tell a person whether or not it was loaded and with what.  Alec could have just as easily shot himself in the nuts.

    a movie set is not a range.  its expected that other actors or crew behind the camera will be "down range" for the scene to work as written.

    as for it being a revolver, I might expect its probable but certainly possible faked lead of some sort might have been used for appearances sake.  waiting for whatever report will be released

    finally, gun safety courses seem to be an afterthought in most states laws. lets thank the political arm of the nra for that
    I agree with you on pretty much everything there except I have never seen a clause to the safety codes naming actors specifically “down range” safer than trained military professionals when it comes to real firearms…There is a reason you should “never” do certain things or pretend they are not still dangerous things.
  • mickeyratmickeyrat Posts: 23,786
    PJPOWER said:
    mickeyrat said:
    PJPOWER said:
    mickeyat said:
    PJPOWER said:
    mickeyrat said:
    wel, he IS going to live with the fact a gun, in his hand, discharged killing one and wounding another.

    thats not nothing.
    And the fact that there are things he could have done to prevent it…:
    https://www.nssf.org/safety/rules-firearms-safety/

    When I was in boot camp for usn, we had a day at a range. as I recall our basics were muzzle pointed downrange, finger off trigger unless positioned to fire. jammed? raise your hand keeping weapon downrange. there was no take mag out and check.

    that was a controlled situation.

    a movie set is less so.....

    either way you trust those you are told to.

    no need to respond.
    I know you are not looking for a response, but you mentioned two things that would have prevented this death.  What would your range instructor have done if you crossed him with the muzzle?  And the gun on set was a revolver, so no mags to check…An easy glance could tell a person whether or not it was loaded and with what.  Alec could have just as easily shot himself in the nuts.

    a movie set is not a range.  its expected that other actors or crew behind the camera will be "down range" for the scene to work as written.

    as for it being a revolver, I might expect its probable but certainly possible faked lead of some sort might have been used for appearances sake.  waiting for whatever report will be released

    finally, gun safety courses seem to be an afterthought in most states laws. lets thank the political arm of the nra for that
    I agree with you on pretty much everything there except I have never seen a clause to the safety codes naming actors specifically “down range” safer than trained military professionals when it comes to real firearms…There is a reason you should “never” do certain things or pretend they are not still dangerous things.

    got it. no more movied or tv shows depicting gun use
    _____________________________________SIGNATURE________________________________________________

    Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
    you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
    memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
    another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
  • mickeyratmickeyrat Posts: 23,786
    care to keep kicking or is the horse dead yet.
    _____________________________________SIGNATURE________________________________________________

    Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
    you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
    memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
    another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
  • mace1229mace1229 Posts: 6,579
    I’ll kick. I never saw him say movies shouldn’t depict guns. Just that there are some rules that should always be followed, or things you should never do. One thing you should never do is assume a gun is unloaded. It sounds like several people did that. Alec, the AD, and probably 1 or 2 more assumed the gun was checked and unloaded. It wasn’t.  Never assume it’s unloaded.
  • brianluxbrianlux Moving through All Kinds of Terrain.Posts: 36,081
    Since when are actors supposed to be fire arms experts.  They're actors.  And again, why was there a live round in that gun in the first place?  Sure seems suspicious to me- like maybe someone was being set up?
    And OK, if not that, then why the hell a live round on a movie set?
    "I believe in the mystery, and I don't want to take it any further than that. Maybe what I mean by that is love."
    -John Densmore











  • PJPOWERPJPOWER In Yo FacePosts: 6,405
    edited November 2021
    brianlux said:
    Since when are actors supposed to be fire arms experts.  They're actors.  And again, why was there a live round in that gun in the first place?  Sure seems suspicious to me- like maybe someone was being set up?
    And OK, if not that, then why the hell a live round on a movie set?
    Since they made the decision to use real firearms…It does not really take an “expert” to have some basic knowledge of firearm safety.  They do not have some kind of special shield because they are actors.  Maybe they should stick to rubber gun if they are unwilling (as professionals) to learn some basic safety that could probably be learned in less than an hour.
    Post edited by PJPOWER on
  • F Me In The BrainF Me In The Brain this knows everybody from other commetsPosts: 26,354
    PJPOWER said:
    brianlux said:
    Since when are actors supposed to be fire arms experts.  They're actors.  And again, why was there a live round in that gun in the first place?  Sure seems suspicious to me- like maybe someone was being set up?
    And OK, if not that, then why the hell a live round on a movie set?
    Since they made the decision to use real firearms…It does not really take an “expert” to have some basic knowledge of firearm safety.  They do not have some kind of special shield because they are actors.  Maybe they should stick to rubber gun if they are unwilling (as professionals) to learn some basic safety that could probably be learned in less than an hour.

    How many movie sets where they used firearms have you been present on?
    How many training sessions?

    The love he receives is the love that is saved
  • PJPOWERPJPOWER In Yo FacePosts: 6,405
    mickeyrat said:
    care to keep kicking or is the horse dead yet.
    Sorry, what I meant to say was “thoughts and prayers”.
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