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Tragic event in which Alec Baldwin 'discharged' prop gun that left cinematographer dead.

brianluxbrianlux Posts: 42,012
edited October 2021 in All Encompassing Trip
An incredibly tragic event.  The level of sorrow for all involved must be huge.  So very sad.



Alec Baldwin 'discharged' prop gun that left cinematographer dead and director hospitalized on 'Rust' movie set


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UPDATE: On Thursday about 7 p.m. MST, the Santa Fe County Sheriff's Office reported that, "Halyna Hutchins, 42, director of photography and Joel Souza, 48, director, were shot when a prop firearm was discharged by Alec Baldwin, 68, producer and actor." Souza was still undergoing treatment for his injuries. Officials said detectives are interviewing witnesses, as the case remains open and active, and that no charges have been filed.

John Lindley, the president of the International Cinematographers Guild, and Rebecca Rhine, the organization's national executive director, gave a statement to Deadline: "We received the devastating news this evening, that one of our members, Halyna Hutchins, the Director of Photography on a production called Rust in New Mexico died from injuries sustained on the set. "The details are unclear at this moment, but we are working to learn more, and we support a full investigation into this tragic event. This is a terrible loss, and we mourn the passing of a member of our Guild's family."



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Comments

  • tempo_n_groovetempo_n_groove Posts: 40,350
    When Brandon Lee was shot, I don't remember which actor it was, but they said paraphrasing "a real gun should never, never, never be on a movie stage, ever".

    How this could happen today is a travesty.  It should be charged as a murder, not on Baldwin because he isn't in charge of the props, but whomever was.
  • Gern BlanstenGern Blansten Posts: 20,223
    tempo_n_groove said:
    When Brandon Lee was shot, I don't remember which actor it was, but they said paraphrasing "a real gun should never, never, never be on a movie stage, ever".

    How this could happen today is a travesty.  It should be charged as a murder, not on Baldwin because he isn't in charge of the props, but whomever was.
    Murder is intentional....I can't imagine that anyone could be charged with murder

    Very sad and hard to believe this could still happen after Brandon Lee and I'm sure others...
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  • tempo_n_groovetempo_n_groove Posts: 40,350
    Gern Blansten said:
    tempo_n_groove said:
    When Brandon Lee was shot, I don't remember which actor it was, but they said paraphrasing "a real gun should never, never, never be on a movie stage, ever".

    How this could happen today is a travesty.  It should be charged as a murder, not on Baldwin because he isn't in charge of the props, but whomever was.
    Murder is intentional....I can't imagine that anyone could be charged with murder

    Very sad and hard to believe this could still happen after Brandon Lee and I'm sure others...
    Having a real gun on a set is intentional.  It has no business being there unless you had ulterior motives.  If I was DA that is what I would be going for.

    If it was a prop gun then there are other things to look into.  Why did it fail?  Was it altered.

    Sooo many questions.
  • mickeyratmickeyrat Posts: 38,547

    suppose it would have depended on what the scene required as to which type prop was used. Guessing it required smoke from the barrel and a bang.
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  • tempo_n_groovetempo_n_groove Posts: 40,350
    mickeyrat said:

    suppose it would have depended on what the scene required as to which type prop was used. Guessing it required smoke from the barrel and a bang.
    If he used one that shoots blanks, there is something still coming out of the barrel.  Think of the guy who played Bog in that time traveler show, he put one of those to his temple and died.

    That being said.  Whoever is in charge of these on the set knows better than this.
  • Spiritual_ChaosSpiritual_Chaos Posts: 30,519
    tempo_n_groove said:
     It should be charged as a murder, not on Baldwin because he isn't in charge of the props, but whomever was.
    Murder requires intent.
    "Mostly I think that people react sensitively because they know you’ve got a point"
  • tempo_n_groovetempo_n_groove Posts: 40,350
    Spiritual_Chaos said:
    tempo_n_groove said:
     It should be charged as a murder, not on Baldwin because he isn't in charge of the props, but whomever was.
    Murder requires intent.
    IF, again IF IF IF, a real gun was brought on set, THAT is intent.
  • HobbesHobbes Posts: 6,423
    tempo_n_groove said:
    Spiritual_Chaos said:
    tempo_n_groove said:
     It should be charged as a murder, not on Baldwin because he isn't in charge of the props, but whomever was.
    Murder requires intent.
    IF, again IF IF IF, a real gun was brought on set, THAT is intent.
    Isn't that protected by 2A and open-carry law in NM? Or does everyone that carries have an intent? 
  • tempo_n_groovetempo_n_groove Posts: 40,350
    Hobbes said:
    tempo_n_groove said:
    Spiritual_Chaos said:
    tempo_n_groove said:
     It should be charged as a murder, not on Baldwin because he isn't in charge of the props, but whomever was.
    Murder requires intent.
    IF, again IF IF IF, a real gun was brought on set, THAT is intent.
    Isn't that protected by 2A and open-carry law in NM? Or does everyone that carries have an intent? 
    This got dumb real quick...
  • bootlegger10bootlegger10 Posts: 15,937
    tempo_n_groove said:
    Spiritual_Chaos said:
    tempo_n_groove said:
     It should be charged as a murder, not on Baldwin because he isn't in charge of the props, but whomever was.
    Murder requires intent.
    IF, again IF IF IF, a real gun was brought on set, THAT is intent.
    No way.  Not murder unless someone brought a weapon with the intention of it harming someone.  Someone made a mistake for sure, but that isn’t murder.  

    People die in accidents.  They aren’t intentional.  That is why they are called accidents.    Not murder.  

    Should someone get charged with something related to negligence? Perhaps.
  • HobbesHobbes Posts: 6,423
    tempo_n_groove said:
    Hobbes said:
    tempo_n_groove said:
    Spiritual_Chaos said:
    tempo_n_groove said:
     It should be charged as a murder, not on Baldwin because he isn't in charge of the props, but whomever was.
    Murder requires intent.
    IF, again IF IF IF, a real gun was brought on set, THAT is intent.
    Isn't that protected by 2A and open-carry law in NM? Or does everyone that carries have an intent? 
    This got dumb real quick...
    How so? Shouldn't "responsible" gun owners be allowed to take a gun where they please? Not intent, it's their right. Or, should we revisit the law?
  • tempo_n_groovetempo_n_groove Posts: 40,350
    Hobbes said:
    tempo_n_groove said:
    Hobbes said:
    tempo_n_groove said:
    Spiritual_Chaos said:
    tempo_n_groove said:
     It should be charged as a murder, not on Baldwin because he isn't in charge of the props, but whomever was.
    Murder requires intent.
    IF, again IF IF IF, a real gun was brought on set, THAT is intent.
    Isn't that protected by 2A and open-carry law in NM? Or does everyone that carries have an intent? 
    This got dumb real quick...
    How so? Shouldn't "responsible" gun owners be allowed to take a gun where they please? Not intent, it's their right. Or, should we revisit the law?
    Go to the gun violence thread and debate this if you want.  i'm not bothering here...
  • Spiritual_ChaosSpiritual_Chaos Posts: 30,519
    tempo_n_groove said:
    Spiritual_Chaos said:
    tempo_n_groove said:
     It should be charged as a murder, not on Baldwin because he isn't in charge of the props, but whomever was.
    Murder requires intent.
    IF, again IF IF IF, a real gun was brought on set, THAT is intent.
    Props are often "real guns", that is not something out of the ordinary.

    But:

    IATSE Local 44, which covers prop masters, sent an email to its members early Friday morning that said the gun used in the scene contained "a live round" and the production's propmaster was not a member of Local 44. Director Joel Souza also was hit and injured by a bullet and was treated at an area hospital before being released.

    "Mostly I think that people react sensitively because they know you’ve got a point"
  • Spiritual_ChaosSpiritual_Chaos Posts: 30,519
    edited October 2021
    Hobbes said:
    tempo_n_groove said:
    Hobbes said:
    tempo_n_groove said:
    Spiritual_Chaos said:
    tempo_n_groove said:
     It should be charged as a murder, not on Baldwin because he isn't in charge of the props, but whomever was.
    Murder requires intent.
    IF, again IF IF IF, a real gun was brought on set, THAT is intent.
    Isn't that protected by 2A and open-carry law in NM? Or does everyone that carries have an intent? 
    This got dumb real quick...
    How so? Shouldn't "responsible" gun owners be allowed to take a gun where they please? Not intent, it's their right. Or, should we revisit the law?
    The rules should be like they are in Sweden. You should know this by now.
    "Mostly I think that people react sensitively because they know you’ve got a point"
  • tempo_n_groovetempo_n_groove Posts: 40,350
    bootlegger10 said:
    tempo_n_groove said:
    Spiritual_Chaos said:
    tempo_n_groove said:
     It should be charged as a murder, not on Baldwin because he isn't in charge of the props, but whomever was.
    Murder requires intent.
    IF, again IF IF IF, a real gun was brought on set, THAT is intent.
    No way.  Not murder unless someone brought a weapon with the intention of it harming someone.  Someone made a mistake for sure, but that isn’t murder.  

    People die in accidents.  They aren’t intentional.  That is why they are called accidents.    Not murder.  

    Should someone get charged with something related to negligence? Perhaps.
    When fake firearms are being used, a real gun should never be around.  They have specialists for this to make sure that a mix up doesn't happen.  Movie sets have rules about this.

    Yes someone screwed up big time if it was a real gun.  We aren't sure if it was a real gun yet though.  It could have been one that shoots blanks and if used wrong will kill you.
  • HobbesHobbes Posts: 6,423
    Unimaginable grief and pain that Alec Baldwin must be experiencing. As well as the crew and the family and friends of the victims.
  • tempo_n_groovetempo_n_groove Posts: 40,350
    Spiritual_Chaos said:
    tempo_n_groove said:
    Spiritual_Chaos said:
    tempo_n_groove said:
     It should be charged as a murder, not on Baldwin because he isn't in charge of the props, but whomever was.
    Murder requires intent.
    IF, again IF IF IF, a real gun was brought on set, THAT is intent.
    Props are often "real guns", that is not something out of the ordinary.

    But:

    IATSE Local 44, which covers prop masters, sent an email to its members early Friday morning that said the gun used in the scene contained "a live round" and the production's propmaster was not a member of Local 44. Director Joel Souza also was hit and injured by a bullet and was treated at an area hospital before being released.

    A live round in the gun?  Wow...
  • brianluxbrianlux Posts: 42,012
    I'm not sure what they mean by a "live round" but this is disturbing:

    Prop Gun Fired by Alec Baldwin Contained Live Bullet, Says IATSE Local 44 — UPDATE

    The incident took place October 21 at the Bonanza Creek Ranch in Santa Fe County. It is under investigation.


    Cinematographer Halyna Hutchins was killed on the New Mexico set of the Alec Baldwin film “Rust” after she was shot by a prop gun fired by the film’s star and producer, Alec Baldwin. IATSE Local 44, which covers prop masters, sent an email to its members early Friday morning that said the gun used in the scene contained “a live round” and the production’s propmaster was not a member of Local 44. Director Joel Souza also was hit and injured by a bullet and was treated at an area hospital before being released.

    Sheriff’s deputies were dispatched to Bonanza Creek Ranch, a popular filming location south of Santa Fe, Thursday afternoon in response to a 911 caller reporting a shooting on set. No charges have been filed and the incident remains under investigation.


    More at link.


    “The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
    Variously credited to Mark Twain or Edward Abbey.













  • tempo_n_groovetempo_n_groove Posts: 40,350
    brianlux said:
    I'm not sure what they mean by a "live round" but this is disturbing:

    Prop Gun Fired by Alec Baldwin Contained Live Bullet, Says IATSE Local 44 — UPDATE

    The incident took place October 21 at the Bonanza Creek Ranch in Santa Fe County. It is under investigation.


    Cinematographer Halyna Hutchins was killed on the New Mexico set of the Alec Baldwin film “Rust” after she was shot by a prop gun fired by the film’s star and producer, Alec Baldwin. IATSE Local 44, which covers prop masters, sent an email to its members early Friday morning that said the gun used in the scene contained “a live round” and the production’s propmaster was not a member of Local 44. Director Joel Souza also was hit and injured by a bullet and was treated at an area hospital before being released.

    Sheriff’s deputies were dispatched to Bonanza Creek Ranch, a popular filming location south of Santa Fe, Thursday afternoon in response to a 911 caller reporting a shooting on set. No charges have been filed and the incident remains under investigation.


    More at link.


    A live round is a bullet.
  • brianluxbrianlux Posts: 42,012
    tempo_n_groove said:
    brianlux said:
    I'm not sure what they mean by a "live round" but this is disturbing:

    Prop Gun Fired by Alec Baldwin Contained Live Bullet, Says IATSE Local 44 — UPDATE

    The incident took place October 21 at the Bonanza Creek Ranch in Santa Fe County. It is under investigation.


    Cinematographer Halyna Hutchins was killed on the New Mexico set of the Alec Baldwin film “Rust” after she was shot by a prop gun fired by the film’s star and producer, Alec Baldwin. IATSE Local 44, which covers prop masters, sent an email to its members early Friday morning that said the gun used in the scene contained “a live round” and the production’s propmaster was not a member of Local 44. Director Joel Souza also was hit and injured by a bullet and was treated at an area hospital before being released.

    Sheriff’s deputies were dispatched to Bonanza Creek Ranch, a popular filming location south of Santa Fe, Thursday afternoon in response to a 911 caller reporting a shooting on set. No charges have been filed and the incident remains under investigation.


    More at link.


    A live round is a bullet.

    There is some confusion here.  One report I read (don't have the link now) said that a "live round" could contain no bullet (see below), but could have packing materials that could cause harm or fatality.

    Definitions:

    A "bullet" is merely the projectile that exits the barrel. Specifically, it's a non-spherical chunk of lead, copper or other material intended for use in a rifled barrel. The bullet's "caliber" is a numerical approximation of the bullet's diameter, often expressed in millimeters or hundredths of an inch.

    "Bullet" should not be used interchangeably with the term "cartridge," a bullet is a mere component of it. Cartridges consist of the case, primer, propellant and projectile. In the case of rifles and handguns, the bullet is seated in the cartridge case. Cartridge is also an accurate term for any shotshell.

    https://www.gunsandammo.com/editorial/9-misused-gun-terms/249625



    “The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
    Variously credited to Mark Twain or Edward Abbey.













  • mfc2006mfc2006 Posts: 37,438
    Oh man....how sad.
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  • tempo_n_groovetempo_n_groove Posts: 40,350
    brianlux said:
    tempo_n_groove said:
    brianlux said:
    I'm not sure what they mean by a "live round" but this is disturbing:

    Prop Gun Fired by Alec Baldwin Contained Live Bullet, Says IATSE Local 44 — UPDATE

    The incident took place October 21 at the Bonanza Creek Ranch in Santa Fe County. It is under investigation.


    Cinematographer Halyna Hutchins was killed on the New Mexico set of the Alec Baldwin film “Rust” after she was shot by a prop gun fired by the film’s star and producer, Alec Baldwin. IATSE Local 44, which covers prop masters, sent an email to its members early Friday morning that said the gun used in the scene contained “a live round” and the production’s propmaster was not a member of Local 44. Director Joel Souza also was hit and injured by a bullet and was treated at an area hospital before being released.

    Sheriff’s deputies were dispatched to Bonanza Creek Ranch, a popular filming location south of Santa Fe, Thursday afternoon in response to a 911 caller reporting a shooting on set. No charges have been filed and the incident remains under investigation.


    More at link.


    A live round is a bullet.

    There is some confusion here.  One report I read (don't have the link now) said that a "live round" could contain no bullet (see below), but could have packing materials that could cause harm or fatality.

    Definitions:

    A "bullet" is merely the projectile that exits the barrel. Specifically, it's a non-spherical chunk of lead, copper or other material intended for use in a rifled barrel. The bullet's "caliber" is a numerical approximation of the bullet's diameter, often expressed in millimeters or hundredths of an inch.

    "Bullet" should not be used interchangeably with the term "cartridge," a bullet is a mere component of it. Cartridges consist of the case, primer, propellant and projectile. In the case of rifles and handguns, the bullet is seated in the cartridge case. Cartridge is also an accurate term for any shotshell.

    https://www.gunsandammo.com/editorial/9-misused-gun-terms/249625



    When you shoot "Live" rounds they have a bullet in them, they aren't blanks.  Blanks don't have a bullet.  That is what I have been taught as the definitions of the two.
  • brianluxbrianlux Posts: 42,012
    tempo_n_groove said:
    brianlux said:
    tempo_n_groove said:
    brianlux said:
    I'm not sure what they mean by a "live round" but this is disturbing:

    Prop Gun Fired by Alec Baldwin Contained Live Bullet, Says IATSE Local 44 — UPDATE

    The incident took place October 21 at the Bonanza Creek Ranch in Santa Fe County. It is under investigation.


    Cinematographer Halyna Hutchins was killed on the New Mexico set of the Alec Baldwin film “Rust” after she was shot by a prop gun fired by the film’s star and producer, Alec Baldwin. IATSE Local 44, which covers prop masters, sent an email to its members early Friday morning that said the gun used in the scene contained “a live round” and the production’s propmaster was not a member of Local 44. Director Joel Souza also was hit and injured by a bullet and was treated at an area hospital before being released.

    Sheriff’s deputies were dispatched to Bonanza Creek Ranch, a popular filming location south of Santa Fe, Thursday afternoon in response to a 911 caller reporting a shooting on set. No charges have been filed and the incident remains under investigation.


    More at link.


    A live round is a bullet.

    There is some confusion here.  One report I read (don't have the link now) said that a "live round" could contain no bullet (see below), but could have packing materials that could cause harm or fatality.

    Definitions:

    A "bullet" is merely the projectile that exits the barrel. Specifically, it's a non-spherical chunk of lead, copper or other material intended for use in a rifled barrel. The bullet's "caliber" is a numerical approximation of the bullet's diameter, often expressed in millimeters or hundredths of an inch.

    "Bullet" should not be used interchangeably with the term "cartridge," a bullet is a mere component of it. Cartridges consist of the case, primer, propellant and projectile. In the case of rifles and handguns, the bullet is seated in the cartridge case. Cartridge is also an accurate term for any shotshell.

    https://www.gunsandammo.com/editorial/9-misused-gun-terms/249625



    When you shoot "Live" rounds they have a bullet in them, they aren't blanks.  Blanks don't have a bullet.  That is what I have been taught as the definitions of the two.

    Yeah, makes sense to me.  Wish I could find that other article that talks about "live rounds" with no bullet. 
    Oh well, the fact remains- this incident is very tragic. 
    Beyond that, it's hard to imagine how it could happen.  I would think there would be more safety protocol for this sort of thing.
    “The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
    Variously credited to Mark Twain or Edward Abbey.













  • Spiritual_ChaosSpiritual_Chaos Posts: 30,519


    "Mostly I think that people react sensitively because they know you’ve got a point"
  • lastexitlondonlastexitlondon Posts: 13,839
    Sad for all involved. 
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  • Spiritual_ChaosSpiritual_Chaos Posts: 30,519
    tempo_n_groove said:
    brianlux said:
    tempo_n_groove said:
    brianlux said:
    I'm not sure what they mean by a "live round" but this is disturbing:

    Prop Gun Fired by Alec Baldwin Contained Live Bullet, Says IATSE Local 44 — UPDATE

    The incident took place October 21 at the Bonanza Creek Ranch in Santa Fe County. It is under investigation.


    Cinematographer Halyna Hutchins was killed on the New Mexico set of the Alec Baldwin film “Rust” after she was shot by a prop gun fired by the film’s star and producer, Alec Baldwin. IATSE Local 44, which covers prop masters, sent an email to its members early Friday morning that said the gun used in the scene contained “a live round” and the production’s propmaster was not a member of Local 44. Director Joel Souza also was hit and injured by a bullet and was treated at an area hospital before being released.

    Sheriff’s deputies were dispatched to Bonanza Creek Ranch, a popular filming location south of Santa Fe, Thursday afternoon in response to a 911 caller reporting a shooting on set. No charges have been filed and the incident remains under investigation.


    More at link.


    A live round is a bullet.

    There is some confusion here.  One report I read (don't have the link now) said that a "live round" could contain no bullet (see below), but could have packing materials that could cause harm or fatality.

    Definitions:

    A "bullet" is merely the projectile that exits the barrel. Specifically, it's a non-spherical chunk of lead, copper or other material intended for use in a rifled barrel. The bullet's "caliber" is a numerical approximation of the bullet's diameter, often expressed in millimeters or hundredths of an inch.

    "Bullet" should not be used interchangeably with the term "cartridge," a bullet is a mere component of it. Cartridges consist of the case, primer, propellant and projectile. In the case of rifles and handguns, the bullet is seated in the cartridge case. Cartridge is also an accurate term for any shotshell.

    https://www.gunsandammo.com/editorial/9-misused-gun-terms/249625



    When you shoot "Live" rounds they have a bullet in them, they aren't blanks.  Blanks don't have a bullet.  That is what I have been taught as the definitions of the two.

    "Mostly I think that people react sensitively because they know you’ve got a point"
  • Meltdown99Meltdown99 Posts: 10,739
    Alec Baldwin 'Rust' camera crew walked off before shooting - Los Angeles Times (latimes.com)

    Safety protocols standard in the industry, including gun inspections, were not strictly followed on the “Rust” set near Santa Fe, the sources said. They said at least one of the camera operators complained last weekend to a production manager about gun safety on the set.

    Give Peas A Chance…
  • Merkin BallerMerkin Baller Posts: 11,439

    Oh dear 


  • mickeyratmickeyrat Posts: 38,547

    Baldwin was told gun was 'cold' before movie set shooting
    By MORGAN LEE, SUSAN MONTOYA BRYAN and CEDAR ATTANASIO
    Today

    SANTA FE, N.M. (AP) — As a film crew and actors in Western garb prepared to rehearse a scene inside a wooden, chapel-like building on a desert movie ranch outside Santa Fe, assistant director Dave Halls stepped outside and grabbed a prop gun off a cart.

    He walked back in and handed it to the film's star, Alec Baldwin, assuring him it was safe to use because it didn't have live ammo.

    “Cold gun,” Halls yelled.

    It wasn't, according to court records made public Friday. Instead, when Baldwin pulled the trigger Thursday, he killed cinematographer Halyna Hutchins and wounded director Joel Souza, who was standing behind her.

    The tragedy came nearly three decades after Brandon Lee, the son of martial arts legend Bruce Lee, died in a similar case, and it prompted horrified questions about how it could have happened again. The executive producer of ABC’s police drama “The Rookie” announced Friday the show would no longer use “live" weapons because the “safety of our cast and crew is too important.”


    continues...


    _____________________________________SIGNATURE________________________________________________

    Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
    you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
    memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
    another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
  • mace1229mace1229 Posts: 9,359
    Although not yet officially confirmed, I’ve read several statements that there was a single live round in the gun. It just blows my mind that live rounds are even allowed on set. Why have any live rounds anywhere near the place? And why even use real guns at all? Just read the definition of a prop gun, and the definition includes a real gun used as a prop, which apparently is still very common.
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