America's Gun Violence #2

Halifax2TheMax

I didn't shoot him, my dog did!

https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/42717/robot-dogs-can-now-have-6-5mm-assault-rifles-mounted-on-their-backs

dankind

Halifax2TheMax said:

I didn't shoot him, my dog did!

https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/42717/robot-dogs-can-now-have-6-5mm-assault-rifles-mounted-on-their-backs

Please stay on topic, troublemaker. There's a dog thread in AET if you want to discuss dogs.

Bentleyspop

dankind said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

I didn't shoot him, my dog did!

https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/42717/robot-dogs-can-now-have-6-5mm-assault-rifles-mounted-on-their-backs

Please stay on topic, troublemaker. There's a dog thread in AET if you want to discuss dogs.

Did someone say dogs?

Halifax2TheMax

A whole lot of bark, no bite.

mickeyrat

 Nikolas Cruz will plead guilty to killing 17 people in Parkland mass shooting, defense team says

https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2021/10/15/nikolas-cruz-plea/

 

HughFreakingDillon

https://www.cnn.com/videos/us/2021/10/20/parkland-shooter-pleads-guilty-santiago-ath-vpx.cnn/video/playlists/top-news-videos/

Cruz apologizes to families and victims. 

HughFreakingDillon

should he be sentenced to death? defense is claiming history of insanity. 

Meltdown99

Alec Baldwin Fired Prop Gun Killing Director of Photography, Wounding Director, Police Say

https://www.newsweek.com/alec-baldwin-fired-prop-gun-killing-director-photography-wounding-director-police-say-1641490?utm_medium=Social&utm_source=Twitter#Echobox=1634871562

Ledbetterman10

I wonder what the heck happened in this Baldwin incident. You can absolutely be killed by a blank (I knew someone that was). She was the cinematographer....so maybe it was a situation where he's pointing the gun right at the camera? Who knows....but what a terrible tragedy. 

OnWis97

It looks like he intentionally pointed and pulled the trigger...I suspect out of ignorance of the impact of such things. I find it amazing that a guy who's been acting for decades would not realize it. I suppose other possibilities is that he pointed it without intent to pull the trigger and twitched or that it was a ruse to commit murder (maybe I watched too many Monk episodes).

Damn. Terrible.

HughFreakingDillon

OnWis97 said:

It looks like he intentionally pointed and pulled the trigger...I suspect out of ignorance of the impact of such things. I find it amazing that a guy who's been acting for decades would not realize it. I suppose other possibilities is that he pointed it without intent to pull the trigger and twitched or that it was a ruse to commit murder (maybe I watched too many Monk episodes).

Damn. Terrible.

I read a very good explanation on prop guns. there is always a risk it will misfire, but if it's loaded properly, it shouldn't, and he wasn't wrong to point and pull the trigger, as far I as read. But this will be unspeakably traumatizing for him. I feel for the family of the deceased, but holy shit, I can't imagine living with accidently killing someone. 

OnWis97

HughFreakingDillon said:

OnWis97 said:

It looks like he intentionally pointed and pulled the trigger...I suspect out of ignorance of the impact of such things. I find it amazing that a guy who's been acting for decades would not realize it. I suppose other possibilities is that he pointed it without intent to pull the trigger and twitched or that it was a ruse to commit murder (maybe I watched too many Monk episodes).

Damn. Terrible.

I read a very good explanation on prop guns. there is always a risk it will misfire, but if it's loaded properly, it shouldn't, and he wasn't wrong to point and pull the trigger, as far I as read. But this will be unspeakably traumatizing for him. I feel for the family of the deceased, but holy shit, I can't imagine living with accidently killing someone. 

Admittedly, I don't know anything about prop guns. I suppose if the gun was meant to fired in filming, then the risk is generally low. His pointing it and shooting at someone between takes as a joke (I think) is unnecessary. Had he not, would it have been likely to have done the same thing while filming or rehearsing?

And, I totally agree that while you feel for the victim and her loved ones, I first put myself in his place. I can't imagine...

mace1229

HughFreakingDillon said:

OnWis97 said:

It looks like he intentionally pointed and pulled the trigger...I suspect out of ignorance of the impact of such things. I find it amazing that a guy who's been acting for decades would not realize it. I suppose other possibilities is that he pointed it without intent to pull the trigger and twitched or that it was a ruse to commit murder (maybe I watched too many Monk episodes).

Damn. Terrible.

I read a very good explanation on prop guns. there is always a risk it will misfire, but if it's loaded properly, it shouldn't, and he wasn't wrong to point and pull the trigger, as far I as read. But this will be unspeakably traumatizing for him. I feel for the family of the deceased, but holy shit, I can't imagine living with accidently killing someone. 

I thought the whole point of a prop gun was that it can’t fire real bullets? Why not use real guns then?
This reminded me of The Crow. Been a while, but if I remember that was a string of bad events and no one person was blamed. I think the real looking bullets they used had the powder emptied and the primers discharged. Then they load it up with blanks for the shootout. One of the primers was still live, which was just enough power to dislodge the bullet and get it stuck in the barrel. Then when they used switched over to use the blanks that had enough power to actually fire the bullet. 

Curious how close this case is. Seems incredibly stupid they’re still using objects that can be fired though. 

PJPOWER

So who should be charged with firearm negligence?  Alec?  The armory person?  

nicknyr15

PJPOWER said:

So who should be charged with firearm negligence?  Alec?  The armory person?  

Both. 

mickeyrat

nicknyr15 said:

PJPOWER said:

So who should be charged with firearm negligence?  Alec?  The armory person?  

Both. 

whoever pushed that the necessary protocols were relaxed or disgarded

mace1229

PJPOWER said:

So who should be charged with firearm negligence?  Alec?  The armory person?  

I wouldn’t think Baldwin would or should be charged if the industry standard was to have a firearms expert on site and trust his knowledge. I would also think that standard might change to make anyone handling a gun (if they even use real guns after this) be trained and responsible for the final inspection. 

I get many actors probably don’t own or use guns and just trust the experts working with them. But honestly, even if I was anti-gun, I’d want to take a safety training course and be able to inspect any firearm someone just hands me and says to go point it at someone and pull the trigger, it’s fine. 

If my first sentence is true, I think the standard should change to include anyone who held the gun in the chain of events be held responsible. Don’t just trust someone a gun is empty and take their word for it.

HughFreakingDillon

PJPOWER said:

So who should be charged with firearm negligence?  Alec?  The armory person?  

depends who is found to be negligent. the armory person most likely, but it depends on Baldwin or whether he was acting reckless in pointing the gun at the cinematographer or not or if he was rightly pointing it at the camera for a legit shot (not sure the chain of events). 

PJPOWER

HughFreakingDillon said:

PJPOWER said:

So who should be charged with firearm negligence?  Alec?  The armory person?  

depends who is found to be negligent. the armory person most likely, but it depends on Baldwin or whether he was acting reckless in pointing the gun at the cinematographer or not or if he was rightly pointing it at the camera for a legit shot (not sure the chain of events). 

In any other case, the “I didn’t know it was loaded” excuse wouldn’t protect the shooter from liability.  Maybe actors shouldn’t be pretending with real guns….
As far as law goes, Alec chose to point a real gun (regardless of not knowing whether or not it was loaded with “real” bullets) at a woman and chose to pull the trigger.  I feel bad for him, but I feel bad for anyone that accidentally kills someone with a gun…that doesn’t mean they shouldn’t have charges brought up against them for negligence.  Alec himself was negligent in inspection of the gun.  Anyone that does not know how to inspect a firearm has no business holding a real one, including actors.

PJPOWER

mace1229 said:

PJPOWER said:

So who should be charged with firearm negligence?  Alec?  The armory person?  

I wouldn’t think Baldwin would or should be charged if the industry standard was to have a firearms expert on site and trust his knowledge. I would also think that standard might change to make anyone handling a gun (if they even use real guns after this) be trained and responsible for the final inspection. 

I get many actors probably don’t own or use guns and just trust the experts working with them. But honestly, even if I was anti-gun, I’d want to take a safety training course and be able to inspect any firearm someone just hands me and says to go point it at someone and pull the trigger, it’s fine. 

If my first sentence is true, I think the standard should change to include anyone who held the gun in the chain of events be held responsible. Don’t just trust someone a gun is empty and take their word for it.

If someone gave you a gun and said “don’t worry, it’s not loaded”, and you pointed it at someone and shot them, who would be liable?  In the end, it’s always (with adults anyway)the person holding/pointing/shooting the gun that is responsible for where that bullet lands and the damage it does.  I don’t give him a pass just because he is an actor.