I just heard that Pat Cippolone fellow say that Mike Pence should be given the Presidential Medal of Freedom award for his courage on Jan 6th.
This reminds me of Saving Private Ryan when Upham finally grows the stones to shoot the Nazi in the end. OK, sure, good on him.. but I mean, are we supposed to conveniently forget that he was a coward throughout the rest of the ordeal.. and could have saved lives beforehand had he shown said courage?
None of what happened Jan 6th should have come as a surprise to anyone. None of it. If Pence had a shred of decency, he would have stepped up and spoke out well before January 6th. Instead, he kissed ass with Trump and played politics. He deserves no medal... none at all. If Trump has been one thing in his entire life... it's consistent. He has consistently been a huge doosh canoe he whole life.
Agree with everything here.
But ...
... whoa! You were able to sit through a jingoistic propaganda piece like Saving Private Ryan enough times to know character names other than the title character? I saw it in the cinema when it came out and almost left halfway through it.
(For instance, I have no idea what scene you're talking about.)
All I remember was the vets having PTSD and flashbacks, after seeing it. It was pretty traumatic for a lot from what I remember. The landing scene in particular
this was pre trigger warnings and all that woke stuff. Good example of why they exist
For sure, some struggled.
When I was in college, majored in history, I did a number of interviews with WW2 vets as part of a large project, an effort to capture first hand soldier experiences to memorialize for the Florida Historical Society. And each vet was so different in not only how they remember events, but also in the way they dealt with them over the years. My Uncle George was an island hopper who was declared KIA for a month after he disappeared on an island. He struggled with interviewing and dealing with the memories. My Uncle Mike, who was captured at the Battle of the Bulge, was jovial and excited to tell his story.
They were both heroes, as all of the vets were. And no amount of fucked up criticism will change what they sacrificed and were willing to give.
I had one grandfather who was in the marines pre Pearl Harbour and one who tried to sign up for the navy the day after. The line was so long they started sending people to the coast guard line.
one was at Guadalcanal and the other spent the war in Hawaii. Both served honourably so doesn’t matter to me what they did
My uncle was at Guadalcanal too. I can't imagine the horror. The two brothers both tried to sign up on the same day but the younger one was denied. They didn't let him join until 43. They didn't want brothers at the start of the war, but changed that position.
You would think though there is enough probable cause a crime is being committed with witness tampering they could get taps on these phones of key witnesses
I just heard that Pat Cippolone fellow say that Mike Pence should be given the Presidential Medal of Freedom award for his courage on Jan 6th.
This reminds me of Saving Private Ryan when Upham finally grows the stones to shoot the Nazi in the end. OK, sure, good on him.. but I mean, are we supposed to conveniently forget that he was a coward throughout the rest of the ordeal.. and could have saved lives beforehand had he shown said courage?
None of what happened Jan 6th should have come as a surprise to anyone. None of it. If Pence had a shred of decency, he would have stepped up and spoke out well before January 6th. Instead, he kissed ass with Trump and played politics. He deserves no medal... none at all. If Trump has been one thing in his entire life... it's consistent. He has consistently been a huge doosh canoe he whole life.
pence deserves no medal. all he did was do his job on that one day. why should we give someone a medal for doing what they are supposed to do as defined by the constitution of the us?
give the man a laurel, and hearty handshake and say thank you for your courage in doing your job.
"You can tell the greatness of a man by what makes him angry." - Lincoln
I think an attempt at witness tampering is a crime. Devils in the details, do they currently talk regularly? Do they have current business together?
i think so too.
intent is the crux of the issue.
trump was taught how to be a mob boss by that cohen guy. but trump is either so bad at it, or his ego made him try to get involved. a mob boss never does things himself. he gives orders for other people to give the orders. there are buffers so the boss has plausible deniability. trump could not let the buffers do anything, so he tried to talk to the witness himself.
"You can tell the greatness of a man by what makes him angry." - Lincoln
“I could stand in the middle of 5th Avenue and shoot somebody and I wouldn’t lose voters,” DJT
if he caused a death through his criminal plan, his supporters at least won’t care. However I always think of the example of the person who drives the getaway car getting charged with murder when his friends go rob the gas station and kill the clerk
doesn’t matter he didn’t know they were going to kill anyone and he wasn’t there, he still gets charged with murder. Stuff like that happens every day
Toronto 2000
Buffalo, Phoenix, Toronto 2003
Boston I&II 2004
Kitchener, Hamilton, London, Montreal, Ottawa, Toronto 2005
Toronto I&II, Las Vegas 2006
Chicago Lollapalooza 2007
Toronto, Seattle I&II, Vancouver, Philly I,II,III,IV 2009
Cleveland, Buffalo 2010
Toronto I&II 2011
Buffalo 2013 Toronto I&II 2016 10C: 220xxx
“I could stand in the middle of 5th Avenue and shoot somebody and I wouldn’t lose voters,” DJT
if he caused a death through his criminal plan, his supporters at least won’t care. However I always think of the example of the person who drives the getaway car getting charged with murder when his friends go rob the gas station and kill the clerk
doesn’t matter he didn’t know they were going to kill anyone and he wasn’t there, he still gets charged with murder. Stuff like that happens every day
Just curious if it’s accurate to say his own campaign manager called him a murderer, at least in an indirect way? At the very least, he said trump is responsible for the deaths that day.
“I could stand in the middle of 5th Avenue and shoot somebody and I wouldn’t lose voters,” DJT
if he caused a death through his criminal plan, his supporters at least won’t care. However I always think of the example of the person who drives the getaway car getting charged with murder when his friends go rob the gas station and kill the clerk
doesn’t matter he didn’t know they were going to kill anyone and he wasn’t there, he still gets charged with murder. Stuff like that happens every day
Just curious if it’s accurate to say his own campaign manager called him a murderer, at least in an indirect way? At the very least, he said trump is responsible for the deaths that day.
I thought he did
I guess a better example would be if I yelled fire in a crowded theatre and someone died in the stampede
I would be responsible. I think that is what he was getting at. Words getting someone killed
it’s also literally the example of where free speech ends
“I could stand in the middle of 5th Avenue and shoot somebody and I wouldn’t lose voters,” DJT
if he caused a death through his criminal plan, his supporters at least won’t care. However I always think of the example of the person who drives the getaway car getting charged with murder when his friends go rob the gas station and kill the clerk
doesn’t matter he didn’t know they were going to kill anyone and he wasn’t there, he still gets charged with murder. Stuff like that happens every day
Just curious if it’s accurate to say his own campaign manager called him a murderer, at least in an indirect way? At the very least, he said trump is responsible for the deaths that day.
To me it's the term 'murder.' Murder suggests premeditation and intent. Both of which were not there with Trump. (This is based on my Canadian understanding of the legal definition of murder.) I was equally puzzled when the state of Minnesota wanted or tried to pin murder on the other cops involved with George Floyd. Didn't make sense to me.
Trump's suggestion to ingest bleach possibly led to death as well... and certainly his mis-management and downplaying of the pandemic.. all of which don't equate to murder.
Ultimately... I do believe his incompetence, negligence, and maliciousness had led to multiple deaths. But that's not murder to me. Evil? Yes. Criminal? One would hope.
His intent has always been to keep and maintain power. And he hasn't cared what got in his way... up to and including people suffering and loss of life itself.
But there you are almost half of America... still supporting this greasy fuck. (hopefully less and less as the days go by.)
Toronto 2000
Buffalo, Phoenix, Toronto 2003
Boston I&II 2004
Kitchener, Hamilton, London, Montreal, Ottawa, Toronto 2005
Toronto I&II, Las Vegas 2006
Chicago Lollapalooza 2007
Toronto, Seattle I&II, Vancouver, Philly I,II,III,IV 2009
Cleveland, Buffalo 2010
Toronto I&II 2011
Buffalo 2013 Toronto I&II 2016 10C: 220xxx
“I could stand in the middle of 5th Avenue and shoot somebody and I wouldn’t lose voters,” DJT
if he caused a death through his criminal plan, his supporters at least won’t care. However I always think of the example of the person who drives the getaway car getting charged with murder when his friends go rob the gas station and kill the clerk
doesn’t matter he didn’t know they were going to kill anyone and he wasn’t there, he still gets charged with murder. Stuff like that happens every day
Just curious if it’s accurate to say his own campaign manager called him a murderer, at least in an indirect way? At the very least, he said trump is responsible for the deaths that day.
To me it's the term 'murder.' Murder suggests premeditation and intent. Both of which were not there with Trump. (This is based on my Canadian understanding of the legal definition of murder.) I was equally puzzled when the state of Minnesota wanted or tried to pin murder on the other cops involved with George Floyd. Didn't make sense to me.
Trump's suggestion to ingest bleach possibly led to death as well... and certainly his mis-management and downplaying of the pandemic.. all of which don't equate to murder.
Ultimately... I do believe his incompetence, negligence, and maliciousness had led to multiple deaths. But that's not murder to me. Evil? Yes. Criminal? One would hope.
His intent has always been to keep and maintain power. And he hasn't cared what got in his way... up to and including people suffering and loss of life itself.
But there you are almost half of America... still supporting this greasy fuck. (hopefully less and less as the days go by.)
Mn cops. depraved indifference. they had an affirmative duty to intervene. they chose not to. murder 2 for them. as accomplices to murder.
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
“I could stand in the middle of 5th Avenue and shoot somebody and I wouldn’t lose voters,” DJT
if he caused a death through his criminal plan, his supporters at least won’t care. However I always think of the example of the person who drives the getaway car getting charged with murder when his friends go rob the gas station and kill the clerk
doesn’t matter he didn’t know they were going to kill anyone and he wasn’t there, he still gets charged with murder. Stuff like that happens every day
Just curious if it’s accurate to say his own campaign manager called him a murderer, at least in an indirect way? At the very least, he said trump is responsible for the deaths that day.
To me it's the term 'murder.' Murder suggests premeditation and intent. Both of which were not there with Trump. (This is based on my Canadian understanding of the legal definition of murder.) I was equally puzzled when the state of Minnesota wanted or tried to pin murder on the other cops involved with George Floyd. Didn't make sense to me.
Trump's suggestion to ingest bleach possibly led to death as well... and certainly his mis-management and downplaying of the pandemic.. all of which don't equate to murder.
Ultimately... I do believe his incompetence, negligence, and maliciousness had led to multiple deaths. But that's not murder to me. Evil? Yes. Criminal? One would hope.
His intent has always been to keep and maintain power. And he hasn't cared what got in his way... up to and including people suffering and loss of life itself.
But there you are almost half of America... still supporting this greasy fuck. (hopefully less and less as the days go by.)
Mn cops. depraved indifference. they had an affirmative duty to intervene. they chose not to. murder 2 for them. as accomplices to murder.
Again.. it's the definitions that confuse me. Canada vs. Minnesota... states vs. states etc.
Toronto 2000
Buffalo, Phoenix, Toronto 2003
Boston I&II 2004
Kitchener, Hamilton, London, Montreal, Ottawa, Toronto 2005
Toronto I&II, Las Vegas 2006
Chicago Lollapalooza 2007
Toronto, Seattle I&II, Vancouver, Philly I,II,III,IV 2009
Cleveland, Buffalo 2010
Toronto I&II 2011
Buffalo 2013 Toronto I&II 2016 10C: 220xxx
What's going to be fascinating is to see how this all unfolds legally.
Equally fascinating to me is the notion of:
If the justice system cannot or does not hold a person like him accountable... how do you expect the public to hold him accountable by means of either public support or at the ballot box?
Ultimately... your country is in one dilly of a pickle.
Toronto 2000
Buffalo, Phoenix, Toronto 2003
Boston I&II 2004
Kitchener, Hamilton, London, Montreal, Ottawa, Toronto 2005
Toronto I&II, Las Vegas 2006
Chicago Lollapalooza 2007
Toronto, Seattle I&II, Vancouver, Philly I,II,III,IV 2009
Cleveland, Buffalo 2010
Toronto I&II 2011
Buffalo 2013 Toronto I&II 2016 10C: 220xxx
What's going to be fascinating is to see how this all unfolds legally.
Equally fascinating to me is the notion of:
If the justice system cannot or does not hold a person like him accountable... how do you expect the public to hold him accountable by means of either public support or at the ballot box?
Ultimately... your country is in one dilly of a pickle.
Not only that, but if we somehow do hold him accountable, civil war is almost a certainty.
1995 Milwaukee 1998 Alpine, Alpine 2003 Albany, Boston, Boston, Boston 2004 Boston, Boston 2006 Hartford, St. Paul (Petty), St. Paul (Petty) 2011 Alpine, Alpine 2013 Wrigley 2014 St. Paul 2016 Fenway, Fenway, Wrigley, Wrigley 2018 Missoula, Wrigley, Wrigley 2021 Asbury Park 2022 St Louis 2023 Austin, Austin 2024 Napa, Wrigley, Wrigley
no chance of civil war. there will be pockets of violence here or there, probably more than usual, but there's not going to be two heavily organized armies, divided mostly by geography, come out of this.
"Oh Canada...you're beautiful when you're drunk" -EV 8/14/93
no chance of civil war. there will be pockets of violence here or there, probably more than usual, but there's not going to be two heavily organized armies, divided mostly by geography, come out of this.
Way to crush my dreams, bruh….
I SAW PEARL JAM
0
brianlux
Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 42,725
What's going to be fascinating is to see how this all unfolds legally.
Equally fascinating to me is the notion of:
If the justice system cannot or does not hold a person like him accountable... how do you expect the public to hold him accountable by means of either public support or at the ballot box?
Ultimately... your country is in one dilly of a pickle.
Not only that, but if we somehow do hold him accountable, civil war is almost a certainty.
We're screwed wither way. Let 45 off or give him a slap on the hand and it tells people what happened Jan 6th was something you can easily get away with. Convict him and we end up with a lot more isolated incidents of violence and innocent people dying.
no chance of civil war. there will be pockets of violence here or there, probably more than usual, but there's not going to be two heavily organized armies, divided mostly by geography, come out of this.
Exactly. What we'll very likely get will be localized rioting and counter rioting in downtown areas in cities resulting in some blood in the streets, some incidents of random violence of stranger against stranger, and maybe some incidents of violence of neighbor against neighbor or worker against co-worker. But certainly not Army A against Army B on battle fields.
"Don't give in to the lies. Don't give in to the fear. Hold on to the truth. And to hope."
Really, with all that's coming out, the most amazing thing, regardless of outcome, is that so many people either don't care or don't believe it. With Watergate, I'm too young to remember but it seems that even Nixon's supporters (most anyway) eventually accepted the truth. And now he's a punchline. Too much media and too many echo chambers make this so much different and so much more dangerous. Watergate pales in comparison to January 6 (among a few traitorous Trump and GQP actions) but it'll never be recognized as such because nearly half the country either approves of it all, doesn't believe it, or doesn't even hear about it. Where's Hunter?
1995 Milwaukee 1998 Alpine, Alpine 2003 Albany, Boston, Boston, Boston 2004 Boston, Boston 2006 Hartford, St. Paul (Petty), St. Paul (Petty) 2011 Alpine, Alpine 2013 Wrigley 2014 St. Paul 2016 Fenway, Fenway, Wrigley, Wrigley 2018 Missoula, Wrigley, Wrigley 2021 Asbury Park 2022 St Louis 2023 Austin, Austin 2024 Napa, Wrigley, Wrigley
“I could stand in the middle of 5th Avenue and shoot somebody and I wouldn’t lose voters,” DJT
if he caused a death through his criminal plan, his supporters at least won’t care. However I always think of the example of the person who drives the getaway car getting charged with murder when his friends go rob the gas station and kill the clerk
doesn’t matter he didn’t know they were going to kill anyone and he wasn’t there, he still gets charged with murder. Stuff like that happens every day
Just curious if it’s accurate to say his own campaign manager called him a murderer, at least in an indirect way? At the very least, he said trump is responsible for the deaths that day.
To me it's the term 'murder.' Murder suggests premeditation and intent. Both of which were not there with Trump. (This is based on my Canadian understanding of the legal definition of murder.) I was equally puzzled when the state of Minnesota wanted or tried to pin murder on the other cops involved with George Floyd. Didn't make sense to me.
Trump's suggestion to ingest bleach possibly led to death as well... and certainly his mis-management and downplaying of the pandemic.. all of which don't equate to murder.
Ultimately... I do believe his incompetence, negligence, and maliciousness had led to multiple deaths. But that's not murder to me. Evil? Yes. Criminal? One would hope.
His intent has always been to keep and maintain power. And he hasn't cared what got in his way... up to and including people suffering and loss of life itself.
But there you are almost half of America... still supporting this greasy fuck. (hopefully less and less as the days go by.)
Interesting that’s exactly where the committee was going yesterday, premeditation. The campaign manager, Brad Parscale, reasoned that since he was throwing around civil war type comments to enrage his “troops” it was premeditated, and since civil war is lethal, that counts for intent as we..
…
WASHINGTON —
Then-President Trump’s call for his supporters to march on the Capitol on Jan. 6, 2021, was planned in advance, and he intended to go with them, evidence presented at Tuesday’s congressional hearing on the insurrection showed.
“He stoked their anger. He called for them to the fight for him. He directed them to the U.S. Capitol. He told them he would join them. And his supporters believed him, and many headed towards the Capitol,” said House Select Committee member Rep. Stephanie Murphy (D-Fla.). “As a result, people died. People were injured. Many of his supporters lives have never been the same.”
…
“A sitting president asking for civil war,” Parscale said in texts to Katrina Pierson, a former Trump campaign official who was reportedly involved in organizing the pre-riot rally.
Screenshots of the texts were displayed during the select committee’s latest public hearing Tuesday afternoon, which focused largely on the involvement of domestic violent extremist groups in the Jan. 6 insurrection.
“This week I feel guilty for helping him win,” Parscale wrote.
Pierson replied: “You did what you felt was right at the time and therefore it was right.”
Parscale responded, “Yeah. But a woman is dead,” adding with apparent shock, “Yeah. If I was trump and knew my rhetoric killed someone.”
“I could stand in the middle of 5th Avenue and shoot somebody and I wouldn’t lose voters,” DJT
if he caused a death through his criminal plan, his supporters at least won’t care. However I always think of the example of the person who drives the getaway car getting charged with murder when his friends go rob the gas station and kill the clerk
doesn’t matter he didn’t know they were going to kill anyone and he wasn’t there, he still gets charged with murder. Stuff like that happens every day
Just curious if it’s accurate to say his own campaign manager called him a murderer, at least in an indirect way? At the very least, he said trump is responsible for the deaths that day.
To me it's the term 'murder.' Murder suggests premeditation and intent. Both of which were not there with Trump. (This is based on my Canadian understanding of the legal definition of murder.) I was equally puzzled when the state of Minnesota wanted or tried to pin murder on the other cops involved with George Floyd. Didn't make sense to me.
Trump's suggestion to ingest bleach possibly led to death as well... and certainly his mis-management and downplaying of the pandemic.. all of which don't equate to murder.
Ultimately... I do believe his incompetence, negligence, and maliciousness had led to multiple deaths. But that's not murder to me. Evil? Yes. Criminal? One would hope.
His intent has always been to keep and maintain power. And he hasn't cared what got in his way... up to and including people suffering and loss of life itself.
But there you are almost half of America... still supporting this greasy fuck. (hopefully less and less as the days go by.)
Interesting that’s exactly where the committee was going yesterday, premeditation. The campaign manager, Brad Parscale, reasoned that since he was throwing around civil war type comments to enrage his “troops” it was premeditated, and since civil war is lethal, that counts for intent as we..
…
WASHINGTON —
Then-President Trump’s call for his supporters to march on the Capitol on Jan. 6, 2021, was planned in advance, and he intended to go with them, evidence presented at Tuesday’s congressional hearing on the insurrection showed.
“He stoked their anger. He called for them to the fight for him. He directed them to the U.S. Capitol. He told them he would join them. And his supporters believed him, and many headed towards the Capitol,” said House Select Committee member Rep. Stephanie Murphy (D-Fla.). “As a result, people died. People were injured. Many of his supporters lives have never been the same.”
…
“A sitting president asking for civil war,” Parscale said in texts to Katrina Pierson, a former Trump campaign official who was reportedly involved in organizing the pre-riot rally.
Screenshots of the texts were displayed during the select committee’s latest public hearing Tuesday afternoon, which focused largely on the involvement of domestic violent extremist groups in the Jan. 6 insurrection.
“This week I feel guilty for helping him win,” Parscale wrote.
Pierson replied: “You did what you felt was right at the time and therefore it was right.”
Parscale responded, “Yeah. But a woman is dead,” adding with apparent shock, “Yeah. If I was trump and knew my rhetoric killed someone.”
Pierson told him, “It wasn’t the rhetoric.”
But Parscale shot back: “Katrina. Yes it was.”
It's premeditation to cause havok sure.... but it would be a huge stretch to suggest that he fully knew someone was going to get killed.
Again... I'm very unfamiliar with state laws and american federal laws. But I recently watched a neat documentary about 'swatting' in America. And upon hearing about what it was I actually said to a friend of mine "someone's eventually going to get shot" and he responded by saying "watch the documentary... it already happened."
Story goes... a fellow called in a fake threat which caused the SWAT team to show up and they ended up killing an innocent victim.
The person responsible for calling in the SWAT team is responsible of course... but for premeditated murder? You would have to have some clear evidence that there was intention for someone to die.
With Trump... there is no chance he knew ahead of time someone would die and there is zero evidence thus far to show that he wanted someone to die.
With the swatting thing.. the fellow got 20 years for involuntary manslaughter. If we're gonna have the conversation about the legal culpability of Trump and what Parscale was saying... to me it's more in line with just that... involuntary manslaughter. Or perhaps negligence causing death. It's a way of saying: "Someone died because of what you did." As opposed to: "You intentionally tried to kill someone."
Toronto 2000
Buffalo, Phoenix, Toronto 2003
Boston I&II 2004
Kitchener, Hamilton, London, Montreal, Ottawa, Toronto 2005
Toronto I&II, Las Vegas 2006
Chicago Lollapalooza 2007
Toronto, Seattle I&II, Vancouver, Philly I,II,III,IV 2009
Cleveland, Buffalo 2010
Toronto I&II 2011
Buffalo 2013 Toronto I&II 2016 10C: 220xxx
I think his inclusion especially on the live broadcast was to show those who still support Trump that the light bulb can turn on eventually.
We've been chattin about legal ramifications etc. but I honestly think more important than that is trying to finally crack through the thick dumbass skulls of all of those who have been brainwashed by Trump and all his cronies in the senate, congress, and the media. There is no shame in admitting you were wrong. There is no shame in admitting that you were had by a con artist.
Toronto 2000
Buffalo, Phoenix, Toronto 2003
Boston I&II 2004
Kitchener, Hamilton, London, Montreal, Ottawa, Toronto 2005
Toronto I&II, Las Vegas 2006
Chicago Lollapalooza 2007
Toronto, Seattle I&II, Vancouver, Philly I,II,III,IV 2009
Cleveland, Buffalo 2010
Toronto I&II 2011
Buffalo 2013 Toronto I&II 2016 10C: 220xxx
Comments
without that, it’s an unanswered call. Could mean anything
give the man a laurel, and hearty handshake and say thank you for your courage in doing your job.
"Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
intent is the crux of the issue.
trump was taught how to be a mob boss by that cohen guy. but trump is either so bad at it, or his ego made him try to get involved. a mob boss never does things himself. he gives orders for other people to give the orders. there are buffers so the boss has plausible deniability. trump could not let the buffers do anything, so he tried to talk to the witness himself.
"Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
edit, https://www.nbcboston.com/news/national-international/former-campaign-manager-faults-trump-in-jan-6-death/2770401/
Libtardaplorable©. And proud of it.
Brilliantati©
What is sealioning?
if he caused a death through his criminal plan, his supporters at least won’t care. However I always think of the example of the person who drives the getaway car getting charged with murder when his friends go rob the gas station and kill the clerk
doesn’t matter he didn’t know they were going to kill anyone and he wasn’t there, he still gets charged with murder. Stuff like that happens every day
Buffalo, Phoenix, Toronto 2003
Boston I&II 2004
Kitchener, Hamilton, London, Montreal, Ottawa, Toronto 2005
Toronto I&II, Las Vegas 2006
Chicago Lollapalooza 2007
Toronto, Seattle I&II, Vancouver, Philly I,II,III,IV 2009
Cleveland, Buffalo 2010
Toronto I&II 2011
Buffalo 2013
Toronto I&II 2016
10C: 220xxx
I guess a better example would be if I yelled fire in a crowded theatre and someone died in the stampede
I would be responsible. I think that is what he was getting at. Words getting someone killed
it’s also literally the example of where free speech ends
Trump's suggestion to ingest bleach possibly led to death as well... and certainly his mis-management and downplaying of the pandemic.. all of which don't equate to murder.
Ultimately... I do believe his incompetence, negligence, and maliciousness had led to multiple deaths. But that's not murder to me. Evil? Yes. Criminal? One would hope.
His intent has always been to keep and maintain power. And he hasn't cared what got in his way... up to and including people suffering and loss of life itself.
But there you are almost half of America... still supporting this greasy fuck. (hopefully less and less as the days go by.)
Buffalo, Phoenix, Toronto 2003
Boston I&II 2004
Kitchener, Hamilton, London, Montreal, Ottawa, Toronto 2005
Toronto I&II, Las Vegas 2006
Chicago Lollapalooza 2007
Toronto, Seattle I&II, Vancouver, Philly I,II,III,IV 2009
Cleveland, Buffalo 2010
Toronto I&II 2011
Buffalo 2013
Toronto I&II 2016
10C: 220xxx
Mn cops. depraved indifference. they had an affirmative duty to intervene. they chose not to. murder 2 for them. as accomplices to murder.
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
Buffalo, Phoenix, Toronto 2003
Boston I&II 2004
Kitchener, Hamilton, London, Montreal, Ottawa, Toronto 2005
Toronto I&II, Las Vegas 2006
Chicago Lollapalooza 2007
Toronto, Seattle I&II, Vancouver, Philly I,II,III,IV 2009
Cleveland, Buffalo 2010
Toronto I&II 2011
Buffalo 2013
Toronto I&II 2016
10C: 220xxx
Equally fascinating to me is the notion of:
If the justice system cannot or does not hold a person like him accountable... how do you expect the public to hold him accountable by means of either public support or at the ballot box?
Ultimately... your country is in one dilly of a pickle.
Buffalo, Phoenix, Toronto 2003
Boston I&II 2004
Kitchener, Hamilton, London, Montreal, Ottawa, Toronto 2005
Toronto I&II, Las Vegas 2006
Chicago Lollapalooza 2007
Toronto, Seattle I&II, Vancouver, Philly I,II,III,IV 2009
Cleveland, Buffalo 2010
Toronto I&II 2011
Buffalo 2013
Toronto I&II 2016
10C: 220xxx
2013 Wrigley 2014 St. Paul 2016 Fenway, Fenway, Wrigley, Wrigley 2018 Missoula, Wrigley, Wrigley 2021 Asbury Park 2022 St Louis 2023 Austin, Austin
2024 Napa, Wrigley, Wrigley
-EV 8/14/93
Exactly. What we'll very likely get will be localized rioting and counter rioting in downtown areas in cities resulting in some blood in the streets, some incidents of random violence of stranger against stranger, and maybe some incidents of violence of neighbor against neighbor or worker against co-worker. But certainly not Army A against Army B on battle fields.
2013 Wrigley 2014 St. Paul 2016 Fenway, Fenway, Wrigley, Wrigley 2018 Missoula, Wrigley, Wrigley 2021 Asbury Park 2022 St Louis 2023 Austin, Austin
2024 Napa, Wrigley, Wrigley
Then-President Trump’s call for his supporters to march on the Capitol on Jan. 6, 2021, was planned in advance, and he intended to go with them, evidence presented at Tuesday’s congressional hearing on the insurrection showed.
“He stoked their anger. He called for them to the fight for him. He directed them to the U.S. Capitol. He told them he would join them. And his supporters believed him, and many headed towards the Capitol,” said House Select Committee member Rep. Stephanie Murphy (D-Fla.). “As a result, people died. People were injured. Many of his supporters lives have never been the same.”
…
“A sitting president asking for civil war,” Parscale said in texts to Katrina Pierson, a former Trump campaign official who was reportedly involved in organizing the pre-riot rally.
Screenshots of the texts were displayed during the select committee’s latest public hearing Tuesday afternoon, which focused largely on the involvement of domestic violent extremist groups in the Jan. 6 insurrection.
“This week I feel guilty for helping him win,” Parscale wrote.
Pierson replied: “You did what you felt was right at the time and therefore it was right.”
Parscale responded, “Yeah. But a woman is dead,” adding with apparent shock, “Yeah. If I was trump and knew my rhetoric killed someone.”
Pierson told him, “It wasn’t the rhetoric.”
But Parscale shot back: “Katrina. Yes it was.”
Again... I'm very unfamiliar with state laws and american federal laws. But I recently watched a neat documentary about 'swatting' in America. And upon hearing about what it was I actually said to a friend of mine "someone's eventually going to get shot" and he responded by saying "watch the documentary... it already happened."
Story goes... a fellow called in a fake threat which caused the SWAT team to show up and they ended up killing an innocent victim.
The person responsible for calling in the SWAT team is responsible of course... but for premeditated murder? You would have to have some clear evidence that there was intention for someone to die.
With Trump... there is no chance he knew ahead of time someone would die and there is zero evidence thus far to show that he wanted someone to die.
With the swatting thing.. the fellow got 20 years for involuntary manslaughter. If we're gonna have the conversation about the legal culpability of Trump and what Parscale was saying... to me it's more in line with just that... involuntary manslaughter. Or perhaps negligence causing death. It's a way of saying: "Someone died because of what you did." As opposed to: "You intentionally tried to kill someone."
Buffalo, Phoenix, Toronto 2003
Boston I&II 2004
Kitchener, Hamilton, London, Montreal, Ottawa, Toronto 2005
Toronto I&II, Las Vegas 2006
Chicago Lollapalooza 2007
Toronto, Seattle I&II, Vancouver, Philly I,II,III,IV 2009
Cleveland, Buffalo 2010
Toronto I&II 2011
Buffalo 2013
Toronto I&II 2016
10C: 220xxx
He doesn't seem very gung ho for 45 anymore...
We've been chattin about legal ramifications etc. but I honestly think more important than that is trying to finally crack through the thick dumbass skulls of all of those who have been brainwashed by Trump and all his cronies in the senate, congress, and the media. There is no shame in admitting you were wrong. There is no shame in admitting that you were had by a con artist.
Buffalo, Phoenix, Toronto 2003
Boston I&II 2004
Kitchener, Hamilton, London, Montreal, Ottawa, Toronto 2005
Toronto I&II, Las Vegas 2006
Chicago Lollapalooza 2007
Toronto, Seattle I&II, Vancouver, Philly I,II,III,IV 2009
Cleveland, Buffalo 2010
Toronto I&II 2011
Buffalo 2013
Toronto I&II 2016
10C: 220xxx