Jan 6 Select Committee

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  • Merkin BallerMerkin Baller Posts: 11,579
    edited July 2022

    If I legitimately believe a bank owes me money, and then take the money back via armed robbery, I'm pretty sure the "He believed the money was his" defense isn't going to fly. 
  • Cropduster-80Cropduster-80 Posts: 2,034
    edited July 2022
    mrussel1 said:
    well it's consistent. if he's still president, which he thinks he is, privilege is still active. 
    He truly thinks he won the election and there was fraud. Apparently that’s what the WH council told the committee.WHC disagreed.  

    a lot of these crimes seem to require him knowing he lost and pressuring overturning legitimate votes. Not sure why WHC offered that up as he really isn’t inside the guy’s head. It’s speculation and definitely helps trump in that area 

    so yeah, he probably still thinks he’s president 
    Delusion is not a good defense.  


     intent to commit a crime is essential in a conspiracy I think 
      
    im convinced his defence  it going to be all my information says I won. I wasn’t trying to defraud the election at all.  Probably won’t work, but WHC stating it’s his sincere belief he won doesn’t hurt him 

     crimes were committed, but by him directly or by subordinates?  did he intend be part of a criminal conspiracy ? The conspiracy case I think will be hard 
    Post edited by Cropduster-80 on
  • mrussel1mrussel1 Posts: 29,814
    mrussel1 said:
    well it's consistent. if he's still president, which he thinks he is, privilege is still active. 
    He truly thinks he won the election and there was fraud. Apparently that’s what the WH council told the committee.WHC disagreed.  

    a lot of these crimes seem to require him knowing he lost and pressuring overturning legitimate votes. Not sure why WHC offered that up as he really isn’t inside the guy’s head. It’s speculation and definitely helps trump in that area 

    so yeah, he probably still thinks he’s president 
    Delusion is not a good defense.  


     intent to commit a crime is essential in a conspiracy I think 
      
    im convinced his defence  it going to be all my information says I won. I wasn’t trying to defraud the election at all.  Probably won’t work, but WHC stating it’s his sincere belief he won doesn’t hurt him 

     crimes were committed, but by him directly or by subordinates?  did he intend be part of a criminal conspiracy ? The conspiracy case I think will be hard 
    I don't think he gets charged.  Never have.  But I expect those around him to be potentially charged.  Deterrence is a key objective here. 
  • Cropduster-80Cropduster-80 Posts: 2,034
    edited July 2022
    mrussel1 said:
    mrussel1 said:
    well it's consistent. if he's still president, which he thinks he is, privilege is still active. 
    He truly thinks he won the election and there was fraud. Apparently that’s what the WH council told the committee.WHC disagreed.  

    a lot of these crimes seem to require him knowing he lost and pressuring overturning legitimate votes. Not sure why WHC offered that up as he really isn’t inside the guy’s head. It’s speculation and definitely helps trump in that area 

    so yeah, he probably still thinks he’s president 
    Delusion is not a good defense.  


     intent to commit a crime is essential in a conspiracy I think 
      
    im convinced his defence  it going to be all my information says I won. I wasn’t trying to defraud the election at all.  Probably won’t work, but WHC stating it’s his sincere belief he won doesn’t hurt him 

     crimes were committed, but by him directly or by subordinates?  did he intend be part of a criminal conspiracy ? The conspiracy case I think will be hard 
    I don't think he gets charged.  Never have.  But I expect those around him to be potentially charged.  Deterrence is a key objective here. 
    Plus all you need is one MAGA on the jury 

    his chances of conviction are near zero if he gets charged.  In this political environment I’d acquit Biden no matter what he actually did if I got on a jury and they charged him with a crime. It would take a lot for me to vote to convict, more than it should 

    OJ got off for a similar reason. No way they were ever going to say guilty not with what was going on in LA at the time with the police. The acquittal  was about so much more than the crime he was on trial for 

    people will get charged, probably not trump 
    Post edited by Cropduster-80 on
  • OnWis97OnWis97 St. Paul, MN Posts: 5,194
    mrussel1 said:
    mrussel1 said:
    well it's consistent. if he's still president, which he thinks he is, privilege is still active. 
    He truly thinks he won the election and there was fraud. Apparently that’s what the WH council told the committee.WHC disagreed.  

    a lot of these crimes seem to require him knowing he lost and pressuring overturning legitimate votes. Not sure why WHC offered that up as he really isn’t inside the guy’s head. It’s speculation and definitely helps trump in that area 

    so yeah, he probably still thinks he’s president 
    Delusion is not a good defense.  


     intent to commit a crime is essential in a conspiracy I think 
      
    im convinced his defence  it going to be all my information says I won. I wasn’t trying to defraud the election at all.  Probably won’t work, but WHC stating it’s his sincere belief he won doesn’t hurt him 

     crimes were committed, but by him directly or by subordinates?  did he intend be part of a criminal conspiracy ? The conspiracy case I think will be hard 
    I don't think he gets charged.  Never have.  But I expect those around him to be potentially charged.  Deterrence is a key objective here. 
    If nobody gets charged, that'll be as clear of a message as possible; America's for the takin.'
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  • gimmesometruth27gimmesometruth27 St. Fuckin Louis Posts: 23,303
    if trump does not get charged it is a green light to do it all over again because there will then be no check on him. he must be charged and tried. nobody is above the law no matter how much they may believe that they are.
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  • Cropduster-80Cropduster-80 Posts: 2,034
    edited July 2022
    if trump does not get charged it is a green light to do it all over again because there will then be no check on him. he must be charged and tried. nobody is above the law no matter how much they may believe that they are.
    What happens if he’s found not guilty? That could be worse, as that will imply nothing he did was wrong. That’s the nightmare situation.  Right or wrong that’s probably going to have a lot to do with a decision to charge or not 

    I have no faith a jury will unanimously vote to convict him.  The trial still has to be in America 

    id rather see a state case first (Georgia) as a test, before the feds decide to try him.  It’s a lot easier to explain away an acquittal in state court in Georgia 
    Post edited by Cropduster-80 on
  • pjhawkspjhawks Posts: 12,566
    I think he will be charged but will never get to a trial,  he will have lawyers drag it out until he dies.  

    Don’t know how he doesn’t get charged in Georgia.  They have him on tape for Christ’s sake.  I guess if the republicans win big in November they can squash it
  • mickeyratmickeyrat Posts: 39,267
    pjhawks said:
    I think he will be charged but will never get to a trial,  he will have lawyers drag it out until he dies.  

    Don’t know how he doesn’t get charged in Georgia.  They have him on tape for Christ’s sake.  I guess if the republicans win big in November they can squash it

    nope. unless they can take DA spot in Fulton County. .  
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  • mrussel1mrussel1 Posts: 29,814
    pjhawks said:
    I think he will be charged but will never get to a trial,  he will have lawyers drag it out until he dies.  

    Don’t know how he doesn’t get charged in Georgia.  They have him on tape for Christ’s sake.  I guess if the republicans win big in November they can squash it
    Yeah I wasn't thinking about Georgia.  That's a whole different problem for him. 
  • Cropduster-80Cropduster-80 Posts: 2,034
    Wonder where a federal trial would even be held.  Defendants often get a change of venue do to pre trial publicity.  

    The Georgia case gets moved out of Fulton county no question.  Probably to MTG’s district 
  • mrussel1mrussel1 Posts: 29,814
    Wonder where a federal trial would even be held.  Defendants often get a change of venue do to pre trial publicity.  

    The Georgia case gets moved out of Fulton county no question.  Probably to MTG’s district 
    Why? What's the argument that a jury is tainted in Fulton vs anywhere else? He is a national figure. 
  • Cropduster-80Cropduster-80 Posts: 2,034
    edited July 2022
    mrussel1 said:
    Wonder where a federal trial would even be held.  Defendants often get a change of venue do to pre trial publicity.  

    The Georgia case gets moved out of Fulton county no question.  Probably to MTG’s district 
    Why? What's the argument that a jury is tainted in Fulton vs anywhere else? He is a national figure. 


     OJ’s trial got moved to LA from Santa Monica, Scott Peterson etc 
    trying to get a more friendly jury 

    If Fulton county is 75 percent democrats I would bet they try it.  


    Post edited by Cropduster-80 on
  • myoung321myoung321 Posts: 2,855
    Just wait until Mueller testifies!..... oh wait...that was last seasons "show" that meant nothing in the end....just as this one will mean nothing when it's over.
    "The heart and mind are the true lens of the camera." - Yusuf Karsh
     


  • mrussel1mrussel1 Posts: 29,814
    myoung321 said:
    Just wait until Mueller testifies!..... oh wait...that was last seasons "show" that meant nothing in the end....just as this one will mean nothing when it's over.
    So you're cool with riots, violence and coups.  Good to know.  
  • mrussel1mrussel1 Posts: 29,814
    mrussel1 said:
    Wonder where a federal trial would even be held.  Defendants often get a change of venue do to pre trial publicity.  

    The Georgia case gets moved out of Fulton county no question.  Probably to MTG’s district 
    Why? What's the argument that a jury is tainted in Fulton vs anywhere else? He is a national figure. 


     OJ’s trial got moved to LA from Santa Monica, Scott Peterson etc 
    trying to get a more friendly jury 

    If Fulton county is 75 percent democrats I would bet they try it.  


    I'm 100% sure they will try, agreed.  I'm just not sure the argument that would allow it to leave metro Atlanta. 
  • cincybearcatcincybearcat Posts: 16,488
    myoung321 said:
    Just wait until Mueller testifies!..... oh wait...that was last seasons "show" that meant nothing in the end....just as this one will mean nothing when it's over.
    It only “means nothing” because a group of people just don’t care about the truth anymore. A group you appear to be a part of. 
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  • Lerxst1992Lerxst1992 Posts: 6,749
    mrussel1 said:
    pjhawks said:
    I think he will be charged but will never get to a trial,  he will have lawyers drag it out until he dies.  

    Don’t know how he doesn’t get charged in Georgia.  They have him on tape for Christ’s sake.  I guess if the republicans win big in November they can squash it
    Yeah I wasn't thinking about Georgia.  That's a whole different problem for him. 


    How so? All he did was ask them to find him some votes, not create false ones. Perfectly legit. 
  • lindamarie73lindamarie73 Posts: 449
    mrussel1 said:
    myoung321 said:
    Just wait until Mueller testifies!..... oh wait...that was last seasons "show" that meant nothing in the end....just as this one will mean nothing when it's over.
    So you're cool with riots, violence and coups.  Good to know.  
    Ask that farce of a organization BLM how they feel about Riots, Violence, and coups….oops, that’s right, one can’t ….
  • mrussel1mrussel1 Posts: 29,814
    edited July 2022
    mrussel1 said:
    myoung321 said:
    Just wait until Mueller testifies!..... oh wait...that was last seasons "show" that meant nothing in the end....just as this one will mean nothing when it's over.
    So you're cool with riots, violence and coups.  Good to know.  
    Ask that farce of a organization BLM how they feel about Riots, Violence, and coups….oops, that’s right, one can’t ….
    That's a defense for them? Talking about BLM?  Shockingly no one has won an acquittal with that argument.  
  • Halifax2TheMaxHalifax2TheMax Posts: 39,335
    mrussel1 said:
    mrussel1 said:
    myoung321 said:
    Just wait until Mueller testifies!..... oh wait...that was last seasons "show" that meant nothing in the end....just as this one will mean nothing when it's over.
    So you're cool with riots, violence and coups.  Good to know.  
    Ask that farce of a organization BLM how they feel about Riots, Violence, and coups….oops, that’s right, one can’t ….
    That's a defense for them? Talking about BLM?  Shockingly no one has won an acquittal with that argument.  
    Those indictments are incoming.
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  • brianluxbrianlux Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 42,292
    I don't think anyone here supports the notion of engaging in violence, riots or coups.  If you do, think twice about how you talk about it, then think twice more about where that could take you.  Otherwise, let's not be so cavalier about talking about things nobody in their right mind wants to be associated with.
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  • ParksyParksy Posts: 1,761
    I just heard that Pat Cippolone fellow say that Mike Pence should be given the Presidential Medal of Freedom award for his courage on Jan 6th. 

    This reminds me of Saving Private Ryan when Upham finally grows the stones to shoot the Nazi in the end.  OK, sure, good on him.. but I mean, are we supposed to conveniently forget that he was a coward throughout the rest of the ordeal.. and could have saved lives beforehand had he shown said courage? 

    None of what happened Jan 6th should have come as a surprise to anyone.  None of it.  If Pence had a shred of decency, he would have stepped up and spoke out well before January 6th.  Instead, he kissed ass with Trump and played politics.  He deserves no medal... none at all. If Trump has been one thing in his entire life... it's consistent.  He has consistently been a huge doosh canoe he whole life. 
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  • dankinddankind Posts: 20,839
    edited July 2022
    Parksy said:
    I just heard that Pat Cippolone fellow say that Mike Pence should be given the Presidential Medal of Freedom award for his courage on Jan 6th. 

    This reminds me of Saving Private Ryan when Upham finally grows the stones to shoot the Nazi in the end.  OK, sure, good on him.. but I mean, are we supposed to conveniently forget that he was a coward throughout the rest of the ordeal.. and could have saved lives beforehand had he shown said courage? 

    None of what happened Jan 6th should have come as a surprise to anyone.  None of it.  If Pence had a shred of decency, he would have stepped up and spoke out well before January 6th.  Instead, he kissed ass with Trump and played politics.  He deserves no medal... none at all. If Trump has been one thing in his entire life... it's consistent.  He has consistently been a huge doosh canoe he whole life. 
    Agree with everything here.

    But ...

    ... whoa! You were able to sit through a jingoistic propaganda piece like Saving Private Ryan enough times to know character names other than the title character? I saw it in the cinema when it came out and almost left halfway through it. :lol:

    (For instance, I have no idea what scene you're talking about.)
    I SAW PEARL JAM
  • mrussel1mrussel1 Posts: 29,814
    dankind said:
    Parksy said:
    I just heard that Pat Cippolone fellow say that Mike Pence should be given the Presidential Medal of Freedom award for his courage on Jan 6th. 

    This reminds me of Saving Private Ryan when Upham finally grows the stones to shoot the Nazi in the end.  OK, sure, good on him.. but I mean, are we supposed to conveniently forget that he was a coward throughout the rest of the ordeal.. and could have saved lives beforehand had he shown said courage? 

    None of what happened Jan 6th should have come as a surprise to anyone.  None of it.  If Pence had a shred of decency, he would have stepped up and spoke out well before January 6th.  Instead, he kissed ass with Trump and played politics.  He deserves no medal... none at all. If Trump has been one thing in his entire life... it's consistent.  He has consistently been a huge doosh canoe he whole life. 
    Agree with everything here.

    But ...

    ... whoa! You were able to sit through a jingoistic propaganda piece like Saving Private Ryan enough times to know character names other than the title character? I saw it in the cinema when it came out and almost left halfway through it. :lol:

    (For instance, I have no idea what scene you're talking about.)
    Oh right,  it's a bunch of WMAs saving the world from Nazis.  What a bunch of entitled creeps those soldiers were.  
  • HughFreakingDillonHughFreakingDillon Winnipeg Posts: 37,345
    dankind said:
    Parksy said:
    I just heard that Pat Cippolone fellow say that Mike Pence should be given the Presidential Medal of Freedom award for his courage on Jan 6th. 

    This reminds me of Saving Private Ryan when Upham finally grows the stones to shoot the Nazi in the end.  OK, sure, good on him.. but I mean, are we supposed to conveniently forget that he was a coward throughout the rest of the ordeal.. and could have saved lives beforehand had he shown said courage? 

    None of what happened Jan 6th should have come as a surprise to anyone.  None of it.  If Pence had a shred of decency, he would have stepped up and spoke out well before January 6th.  Instead, he kissed ass with Trump and played politics.  He deserves no medal... none at all. If Trump has been one thing in his entire life... it's consistent.  He has consistently been a huge doosh canoe he whole life. 
    Agree with everything here.

    But ...

    ... whoa! You were able to sit through a jingoistic propaganda piece like Saving Private Ryan enough times to know character names other than the title character? I saw it in the cinema when it came out and almost left halfway through it. :lol:

    (For instance, I have no idea what scene you're talking about.)
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  • ParksyParksy Posts: 1,761
    I very, very much enjoy movies .......   but understand that they are movies. :) 
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  • Cropduster-80Cropduster-80 Posts: 2,034
    edited July 2022
    dankind said:
    Parksy said:
    I just heard that Pat Cippolone fellow say that Mike Pence should be given the Presidential Medal of Freedom award for his courage on Jan 6th. 

    This reminds me of Saving Private Ryan when Upham finally grows the stones to shoot the Nazi in the end.  OK, sure, good on him.. but I mean, are we supposed to conveniently forget that he was a coward throughout the rest of the ordeal.. and could have saved lives beforehand had he shown said courage? 

    None of what happened Jan 6th should have come as a surprise to anyone.  None of it.  If Pence had a shred of decency, he would have stepped up and spoke out well before January 6th.  Instead, he kissed ass with Trump and played politics.  He deserves no medal... none at all. If Trump has been one thing in his entire life... it's consistent.  He has consistently been a huge doosh canoe he whole life. 
    Agree with everything here.

    But ...

    ... whoa! You were able to sit through a jingoistic propaganda piece like Saving Private Ryan enough times to know character names other than the title character? I saw it in the cinema when it came out and almost left halfway through it. :lol:

    (For instance, I have no idea what scene you're talking about.)
    All I remember was the vets having PTSD and flashbacks, after seeing it.  It was pretty traumatic for a lot from what I remember.  The beach landing scene in particular 

    this was pre trigger warnings and all that woke stuff. Good example of why they exist 


    Post edited by Cropduster-80 on
  • mrussel1mrussel1 Posts: 29,814
    dankind said:
    Parksy said:
    I just heard that Pat Cippolone fellow say that Mike Pence should be given the Presidential Medal of Freedom award for his courage on Jan 6th. 

    This reminds me of Saving Private Ryan when Upham finally grows the stones to shoot the Nazi in the end.  OK, sure, good on him.. but I mean, are we supposed to conveniently forget that he was a coward throughout the rest of the ordeal.. and could have saved lives beforehand had he shown said courage? 

    None of what happened Jan 6th should have come as a surprise to anyone.  None of it.  If Pence had a shred of decency, he would have stepped up and spoke out well before January 6th.  Instead, he kissed ass with Trump and played politics.  He deserves no medal... none at all. If Trump has been one thing in his entire life... it's consistent.  He has consistently been a huge doosh canoe he whole life. 
    Agree with everything here.

    But ...

    ... whoa! You were able to sit through a jingoistic propaganda piece like Saving Private Ryan enough times to know character names other than the title character? I saw it in the cinema when it came out and almost left halfway through it. :lol:

    (For instance, I have no idea what scene you're talking about.)
    All I remember was the vets having PTSD and flashbacks, after seeing it.  It was pretty traumatic for a lot from what I remember.  The landing scene in particular 

    this was pre trigger warnings and all that woke stuff. Good example of why they exist 


    For sure, some struggled.  

    When I was in college,  majored in history,  I did a number of interviews with WW2 vets as part of a large project,  an effort to capture first hand soldier experiences to memorialize for the Florida Historical Society.  And each vet was so different in not only how they remember events,  but also in the way they dealt with them over the years.  My Uncle George was an island hopper who was declared KIA for a month after he disappeared on an island.  He struggled with interviewing and dealing with the memories.  My Uncle Mike,  who was captured at the Battle of the Bulge,  was jovial and excited to tell his story.  

    They were both heroes,  as all of the vets were.  And no amount of fucked up criticism will change what they sacrificed and were willing to give.  
  • Cropduster-80Cropduster-80 Posts: 2,034
    mrussel1 said:
    dankind said:
    Parksy said:
    I just heard that Pat Cippolone fellow say that Mike Pence should be given the Presidential Medal of Freedom award for his courage on Jan 6th. 

    This reminds me of Saving Private Ryan when Upham finally grows the stones to shoot the Nazi in the end.  OK, sure, good on him.. but I mean, are we supposed to conveniently forget that he was a coward throughout the rest of the ordeal.. and could have saved lives beforehand had he shown said courage? 

    None of what happened Jan 6th should have come as a surprise to anyone.  None of it.  If Pence had a shred of decency, he would have stepped up and spoke out well before January 6th.  Instead, he kissed ass with Trump and played politics.  He deserves no medal... none at all. If Trump has been one thing in his entire life... it's consistent.  He has consistently been a huge doosh canoe he whole life. 
    Agree with everything here.

    But ...

    ... whoa! You were able to sit through a jingoistic propaganda piece like Saving Private Ryan enough times to know character names other than the title character? I saw it in the cinema when it came out and almost left halfway through it. :lol:

    (For instance, I have no idea what scene you're talking about.)
    All I remember was the vets having PTSD and flashbacks, after seeing it.  It was pretty traumatic for a lot from what I remember.  The landing scene in particular 

    this was pre trigger warnings and all that woke stuff. Good example of why they exist 


    For sure, some struggled.  

    When I was in college,  majored in history,  I did a number of interviews with WW2 vets as part of a large project,  an effort to capture first hand soldier experiences to memorialize for the Florida Historical Society.  And each vet was so different in not only how they remember events,  but also in the way they dealt with them over the years.  My Uncle George was an island hopper who was declared KIA for a month after he disappeared on an island.  He struggled with interviewing and dealing with the memories.  My Uncle Mike,  who was captured at the Battle of the Bulge,  was jovial and excited to tell his story.  

    They were both heroes,  as all of the vets were.  And no amount of fucked up criticism will change what they sacrificed and were willing to give.  
    I had one grandfather who was in the marines pre Pearl Harbour and one who tried to sign up for the navy the day after.  The line was so long they started sending people to the coast guard line.

    one was at Guadalcanal and the other spent the war in Hawaii. Both served honourably so doesn’t matter to me what they did 
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