Viruses / Vaccines

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  • oftenreading
    oftenreading Victoria, BC Posts: 12,856
    A number of experts in immunology and epidemiology question the US announcement that third doses will commence in September, citing lack of evidence at this point of need and the impact this will have on world vaccine supplies, at a time when hundreds of millions of people have not even had one dose, let alone two. 



    my small self... like a book amongst the many on a shelf
  • tempo_n_groove
    tempo_n_groove Posts: 41,359
    jerparker20 said:
    HughFreakingDillon said:
    mrussel1 said:
    mfc2006 said:
    https://news.yahoo.com/op-ed-doctor-covid-unit-162841532.html
    Tremendous read.  Thanks for sharing. 

    I'm serious when I say this, trump and fox news et al should be fucking prosecuted. free speech doesn't cover this. 
    I’m wonder how long it will be before a family of a kid that catches COVID, or dies from it, in school in Florida, Texas, or any of the southern states sues their governor/state for the stances against masks and/or COVID mitigation. I’m kind of surprised that none have been filed (or at least reported).
    I'm not sure how you can sue the govt for choosing not to do something.
  • Spunkie
    Spunkie i come from downtown. Posts: 7,095
    oftenreading said:
    A number of experts in immunology and epidemiology question the US announcement that third doses will commence in September, citing lack of evidence at this point of need and the impact this will have on world vaccine supplies, at a time when hundreds of millions of people have not even had one dose, let alone two. 



    I'm inclined to agree with this stance. 
    I was swimming in the Great Barrier Reef 
    Animals were hiding behind the Coral 
    Except for little Turtle
    I could swear he's trying to talk to me 
    Gurgle Gurgle
  • Spunkie
    Spunkie i come from downtown. Posts: 7,095
    tempo_n_groove said:
    jerparker20 said:
    HughFreakingDillon said:
    mrussel1 said:
    mfc2006 said:
    https://news.yahoo.com/op-ed-doctor-covid-unit-162841532.html
    Tremendous read.  Thanks for sharing. 

    I'm serious when I say this, trump and fox news et al should be fucking prosecuted. free speech doesn't cover this. 
    I’m wonder how long it will be before a family of a kid that catches COVID, or dies from it, in school in Florida, Texas, or any of the southern states sues their governor/state for the stances against masks and/or COVID mitigation. I’m kind of surprised that none have been filed (or at least reported).
    I'm not sure how you can sue the govt for choosing not to do something.
    Tort law, negligence? Like not putting a fence around a pool?
    I was swimming in the Great Barrier Reef 
    Animals were hiding behind the Coral 
    Except for little Turtle
    I could swear he's trying to talk to me 
    Gurgle Gurgle
  • tempo_n_groove
    tempo_n_groove Posts: 41,359
    tish said:
    tempo_n_groove said:
    jerparker20 said:
    HughFreakingDillon said:
    mrussel1 said:
    mfc2006 said:
    https://news.yahoo.com/op-ed-doctor-covid-unit-162841532.html
    Tremendous read.  Thanks for sharing. 

    I'm serious when I say this, trump and fox news et al should be fucking prosecuted. free speech doesn't cover this. 
    I’m wonder how long it will be before a family of a kid that catches COVID, or dies from it, in school in Florida, Texas, or any of the southern states sues their governor/state for the stances against masks and/or COVID mitigation. I’m kind of surprised that none have been filed (or at least reported).
    I'm not sure how you can sue the govt for choosing not to do something.
    Tort law, negligence? Like not putting a fence around a pool?
    That is a law though.  It's like not putting a seatbelt on and being injured in a crash for not earing it and suing.  Just not going to work out.
  • Spunkie
    Spunkie i come from downtown. Posts: 7,095
    hmm... i don't think my one Canadian law class would cover this, haha, good morning, brain! All I learned from Canada'ex attourney general from the Glen Clark adminisration was don't marry someone unless they have more money than you.
    I was swimming in the Great Barrier Reef 
    Animals were hiding behind the Coral 
    Except for little Turtle
    I could swear he's trying to talk to me 
    Gurgle Gurgle
  • cblock4life
    cblock4life Posts: 1,855
    tempo_n_groove said:
    Is it just me but does she seem too young to be with him?
    Don’t know about that but she looks exactly like my sister who passed a very long time ago….gives me the chills every time I look at her. 
  • curmudgeoness
    curmudgeoness Brigadoon, foodie capital Posts: 4,130
    oftenreading said:
    A number of experts in immunology and epidemiology question the US announcement that third doses will commence in September, citing lack of evidence at this point of need and the impact this will have on world vaccine supplies, at a time when hundreds of millions of people have not even had one dose, let alone two. 




    I think the plan is to do both -- administer third shots here while donating vaccine abroad.

    I think they are seeing better antibody responses in immuno-suppressed individuals who receive a third dose (many were showing few if any antibodies after two doses -- a good thing in terms of avoiding organ rejection in transplant recipients,  a bad thing in terms of resisting covid).

    What I read this morning is that they are seeing a decline in immune response overall after eight months or so , so they are opting to try to get out in front of a resurgence, especially since those who got vaccinated first are, in general, the most at-risk groups (healthcare workers, nursing home residents, people over 75). They expect to have adequate supply of vaccine both to administer third doses domestically and to export vaccine. Keep in mind that production has ramped up and the mRNA vaccines do not have the same storage requirements/ limitations as had been assumed at first.

    I agree that there's a real ethical question to address here, and I don't know what the right answer is (if there is one). At the same time,  if the vaccine is available locally and one chooses to forego a third dose due to the belief that we ought to make sure everyone has first had one dose, that unused vaccine is not going to be reallocated to Mali. As individuals, I think it is incumbent on each of us to do whatever we can, via the resources available to us, to limit the spread of the virus. For most people on here, that means masking up in high-transmission area and getting a vaccine/ boosters when it's your turn.

    All those who seek to destroy the liberties of a democratic nation ought to know that war is the surest and shortest means to accomplish it.
  • Spunkie
    Spunkie i come from downtown. Posts: 7,095
    ^ Yes, good response, C.
    I was swimming in the Great Barrier Reef 
    Animals were hiding behind the Coral 
    Except for little Turtle
    I could swear he's trying to talk to me 
    Gurgle Gurgle
  • tbergs
    tbergs Posts: 10,401
    tempo_n_groove said:
    Is it just me but does she seem too young to be with him?
    43 and 31. Not that far off.
    It's a hopeless situation...
  • PJNB
    PJNB Posts: 13,890
    edited August 2021
    Just found out my wife's grandmother had a stroke. Half of the family is blaming the vaccine she got a couple of weeks ago (second dose of Pfizer) She is alone in the dark in the hospital likely scared out of her mind. I honestly have no clue if it was the vaccine. I know it is rare but how do you answer that question to her son when that is the first thing he says to you. How the fuck would I know. Also no matter what the doctor says tomorrow when asked they will still think it was the vaccine. Its fucked. 

    Hopefully she pulls through tonight (no visitors due to covid) and we get better news tomorrow. 

    Crazy thing is her husband (wife's grandfather) had a stroke in May just a week before he was going to have his vaccine. I was silently thankful that it did not happen (if it had to) after he had the vaccine because I know the shitshow that would come out of it with the family. Now here we are in the same scenario with the vaccine in question. 
    Post edited by PJNB on
  • Halifax2TheMax
    Halifax2TheMax Posts: 42,132
    What’s another 25,000 dead in 65 days? 
    09/15/1998 & 09/16/1998, Mansfield, MA; 08/29/00 08/30/00, Mansfield, MA; 07/02/03, 07/03/03, Mansfield, MA; 09/28/04, 09/29/04, Boston, MA; 09/22/05, Halifax, NS; 05/24/06, 05/25/06, Boston, MA; 07/22/06, 07/23/06, Gorge, WA; 06/27/2008, Hartford; 06/28/08, 06/30/08, Mansfield; 08/18/2009, O2, London, UK; 10/30/09, 10/31/09, Philadelphia, PA; 05/15/10, Hartford, CT; 05/17/10, Boston, MA; 05/20/10, 05/21/10, NY, NY; 06/22/10, Dublin, IRE; 06/23/10, Northern Ireland; 09/03/11, 09/04/11, Alpine Valley, WI; 09/11/11, 09/12/11, Toronto, Ont; 09/14/11, Ottawa, Ont; 09/15/11, Hamilton, Ont; 07/02/2012, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/04/2012 & 07/05/2012, Berlin, Germany; 07/07/2012, Stockholm, Sweden; 09/30/2012, Missoula, MT; 07/16/2013, London, Ont; 07/19/2013, Chicago, IL; 10/15/2013 & 10/16/2013, Worcester, MA; 10/21/2013 & 10/22/2013, Philadelphia, PA; 10/25/2013, Hartford, CT; 11/29/2013, Portland, OR; 11/30/2013, Spokane, WA; 12/04/2013, Vancouver, BC; 12/06/2013, Seattle, WA; 10/03/2014, St. Louis. MO; 10/22/2014, Denver, CO; 10/26/2015, New York, NY; 04/23/2016, New Orleans, LA; 04/28/2016 & 04/29/2016, Philadelphia, PA; 05/01/2016 & 05/02/2016, New York, NY; 05/08/2016, Ottawa, Ont.; 05/10/2016 & 05/12/2016, Toronto, Ont.; 08/05/2016 & 08/07/2016, Boston, MA; 08/20/2016 & 08/22/2016, Chicago, IL; 07/01/2018, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/03/2018, Krakow, Poland; 07/05/2018, Berlin, Germany; 09/02/2018 & 09/04/2018, Boston, MA; 09/08/2022, Toronto, Ont; 09/11/2022, New York, NY; 09/14/2022, Camden, NJ; 09/02/2023, St. Paul, MN; 05/04/2024 & 05/06/2024, Vancouver, BC; 05/10/2024, Portland, OR;

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  • HughFreakingDillon
    HughFreakingDillon Winnipeg Posts: 39,473
    PJNB said:
    Just found out my wife's grandmother had a stroke. Half of the family is blaming the vaccine she got a couple of weeks ago (second dose of Pfizer) She is alone in the dark in the hospital likely scared out of her mind. I honestly have no clue if it was the vaccine. I know it is rare but how do you answer that question to her son when that is the first thing he says to you. How the fuck would I know. Also no matter what the doctor says tomorrow when asked they will still think it was the vaccine. Its fucked. 

    Hopefully she pulls through tonight (no visitors due to covid) and we get better news tomorrow. 

    Crazy thing is her husband (wife's grandfather) had a stroke in May just a week before he was going to have his vaccine. I was silently thankful that it did not happen (if it had to) after he had the vaccine because I know the shitshow that would come out of it with the family. Now here we are in the same scenario with the vaccine in question. 
    I know you know this, but strokes, obviously at her age, happen just as much in the general pop as they do the unvaccinated. people look for things to blame when things go wrong. 
    By The Time They Figure Out What Went Wrong, We'll Be Sitting On A Beach, Earning Twenty Percent.




  • mrussel1
    mrussel1 Posts: 30,879
    I know it's an emotional time,  but wouldn't the fact that her GF had a stroke before getting the vaccine show the family the randomness of strokes? 
  • bootlegger10
    bootlegger10 Posts: 16,256
    She may have caught Covid and died from that.  I would and did take the odds that the vaccine was the better gamble than gambling on an unvaccinated case of Covid.
  • curmudgeoness
    curmudgeoness Brigadoon, foodie capital Posts: 4,130
    PJNB said:
    Just found out my wife's grandmother had a stroke. Half of the family is blaming the vaccine she got a couple of weeks ago (second dose of Pfizer) She is alone in the dark in the hospital likely scared out of her mind. I honestly have no clue if it was the vaccine. I know it is rare but how do you answer that question to her son when that is the first thing he says to you. How the fuck would I know. Also no matter what the doctor says tomorrow when asked they will still think it was the vaccine. Its fucked. 

    Hopefully she pulls through tonight (no visitors due to covid) and we get better news tomorrow. 

    Crazy thing is her husband (wife's grandfather) had a stroke in May just a week before he was going to have his vaccine. I was silently thankful that it did not happen (if it had to) after he had the vaccine because I know the shitshow that would come out of it with the family. Now here we are in the same scenario with the vaccine in question. 

    I hope she pulls through.

    I'm going to guess that she's quite elderly, 80+ at any rate. Looking at local statistics, the mortality rate from covid for people over 80 is about 20%. So getting vaccinated is the right move, statistically. What do you say? I don't know -- maybe nothing but well wishes?
    All those who seek to destroy the liberties of a democratic nation ought to know that war is the surest and shortest means to accomplish it.
  • Spunkie
    Spunkie i come from downtown. Posts: 7,095
    Well wishes for your family, NewBboy.

    A new machine in Alberta revived a covid stroke patient this week after being under half an hour. That's exciting innovation.
    I was swimming in the Great Barrier Reef 
    Animals were hiding behind the Coral 
    Except for little Turtle
    I could swear he's trying to talk to me 
    Gurgle Gurgle
  • Halifax2TheMax
    Halifax2TheMax Posts: 42,132
    edited August 2021
    I’m not sure if it’s just another reason to avoid Wal-Mart or to make guns more available? ‘Murica woot, woot!

    Self-proclaimed ‘Vaccine Police’ tells Walmart pharmacists they ‘could be executed’ for administering shots


    By the time Christopher Key and his half-dozen followers reached the Springfield, Mo., Walmart pharmacy counter on Monday evening, the metal shutters were nearly fully drawn.

    An Alabama-based anti-vaxxer who has gained a following online — where he spreads false information about the coronavirus pandemic – Key was on a mission to give the pharmacists inoculating shoppers a warning.

    “What they’re doing is crimes against humanity,” he said in a live stream on Facebook. “And if they do not stand down immediately, then they could be executed. They can be hung in the state.”

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2021/08/20/covid-delta-variant-live-updates/

    Post edited by Halifax2TheMax on
    09/15/1998 & 09/16/1998, Mansfield, MA; 08/29/00 08/30/00, Mansfield, MA; 07/02/03, 07/03/03, Mansfield, MA; 09/28/04, 09/29/04, Boston, MA; 09/22/05, Halifax, NS; 05/24/06, 05/25/06, Boston, MA; 07/22/06, 07/23/06, Gorge, WA; 06/27/2008, Hartford; 06/28/08, 06/30/08, Mansfield; 08/18/2009, O2, London, UK; 10/30/09, 10/31/09, Philadelphia, PA; 05/15/10, Hartford, CT; 05/17/10, Boston, MA; 05/20/10, 05/21/10, NY, NY; 06/22/10, Dublin, IRE; 06/23/10, Northern Ireland; 09/03/11, 09/04/11, Alpine Valley, WI; 09/11/11, 09/12/11, Toronto, Ont; 09/14/11, Ottawa, Ont; 09/15/11, Hamilton, Ont; 07/02/2012, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/04/2012 & 07/05/2012, Berlin, Germany; 07/07/2012, Stockholm, Sweden; 09/30/2012, Missoula, MT; 07/16/2013, London, Ont; 07/19/2013, Chicago, IL; 10/15/2013 & 10/16/2013, Worcester, MA; 10/21/2013 & 10/22/2013, Philadelphia, PA; 10/25/2013, Hartford, CT; 11/29/2013, Portland, OR; 11/30/2013, Spokane, WA; 12/04/2013, Vancouver, BC; 12/06/2013, Seattle, WA; 10/03/2014, St. Louis. MO; 10/22/2014, Denver, CO; 10/26/2015, New York, NY; 04/23/2016, New Orleans, LA; 04/28/2016 & 04/29/2016, Philadelphia, PA; 05/01/2016 & 05/02/2016, New York, NY; 05/08/2016, Ottawa, Ont.; 05/10/2016 & 05/12/2016, Toronto, Ont.; 08/05/2016 & 08/07/2016, Boston, MA; 08/20/2016 & 08/22/2016, Chicago, IL; 07/01/2018, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/03/2018, Krakow, Poland; 07/05/2018, Berlin, Germany; 09/02/2018 & 09/04/2018, Boston, MA; 09/08/2022, Toronto, Ont; 09/11/2022, New York, NY; 09/14/2022, Camden, NJ; 09/02/2023, St. Paul, MN; 05/04/2024 & 05/06/2024, Vancouver, BC; 05/10/2024, Portland, OR;

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  • PJNB
    PJNB Posts: 13,890
    Thanks for the replies and you guys are all speaking the truth here. Still going to be tough having to have discussions about this with people that are already sold on it. We will focus on her health and ignore the rest of the noise as well as we can. 
  • pjhawks
    pjhawks Posts: 12,911
    PJNB said:
    Thanks for the replies and you guys are all speaking the truth here. Still going to be tough having to have discussions about this with people that are already sold on it. We will focus on her health and ignore the rest of the noise as well as we can. 
    Just tell them it was a personal choice.  The argument a lot of these yokels make is that is their personal choice not to get the vaccine. Well her personal choice was to get the vaccine.

    I really don't understand why the anti-vaxxers get so upset seeing people getting vaccinated and/or wearing masks for the same reason above. Personal choice right?  
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