jesus, all these comments about "dave being miserable" and "needing to move on with his life" are kind of over the top. The guy makes one flippant remark on facebook, and also will answer questions about PJ when asked (which he probably shouldn't, because of this very thing), but no one knows the state of the guy's mind 24/7. it's probably more of a snapshot of a 2 second annoyance than anything.
he has every reason to be annoyed at that. he was with the biggest band in the world, and barely gets a mention anywhere like he was some session drummer for a couple songs.
the rock hall induction, to be clear, was not the band's choice. that was the hall's. always has been.
someone brings up my shithead ex girlfriend that cheated on me, yeah, for 5 seconds I'm like "fuck her!", but then the literal rest of my life I don't think about her. this is the most likely scenario in my mind.
one comment here or there on facebook does not equal a person's whole state of mind. come on, people.
Re: HOF, when the Dead were inducted they refused to go unless every former member was included. The HOF agreed. Ed has a long history with the HOF, and if he wanted Dave included Dave would have been.
Totally agree on this point.
Do not agree that he could have even if he/the band wanted to take the fight. Or maybe if they put forth a case, but not "because he is Eddie Vedder and has history with the HoF".
But by that logic, does Eddie not want Jack inducted? Or was it not worth using his leverage to get Jack inducted, because Dave A might have had slipped through the cracks?
It's not about not wanting Jack, it's about choosing to not fight for either. Both are more deserving than Krusan, no offense to him. This is a band that refused to take the stage unless corporate signage was removed. It's not like the HoF would have told their headliner to piss off. There is precedent for the hall changing their stance based on the desires of the band
My take on it, and was back when PJ was inducted, is that RnR HoF should just induct the band/artist. Full stop. The band/artist as a whole. E.g. "This year PEARL JAM will be inducted" or "This year Grateful dead is one of the inductees!" and then the band/artist can order how many plaques from the RnR HoF as they need and decide what past and present members are deserving of one.
Should not be the RnR HoF deciding what constitutes the band, or what part of a band or era and it's legacy that matters or not. I find that odd. And unnecessary.
Also, about throwing around ones weight. KISS, which I imagine was the headliner the year they was inducted, wanted present members inducted and made a stink about it publicly - but that did not work. But yeah. Whatever. It is what it is.
Dave A should - in my world and for my youtubing pleasure - have been personally reached out to and invited by the band to join them and destroy Rearviewmirror up on that stage that night. Might be a weird opinion. Might not be in line with the art direction of the Unplugged DVD.
But my evenings alone with only youtube as my friend and an endless amount of screwdrivers, would have been a bit better with being able to watch that on repeat.
Agree he should have been there.
For KISS to want current touring members included is a bit ridiculous. That would be like Fleetwood Mac insisting on including Neil Finn. Fleetwood Mac did intervene to keep Bob Welch out of the induction, however!
jesus, all these comments about "dave being miserable" and "needing to move on with his life" are kind of over the top. The guy makes one flippant remark on facebook, and also will answer questions about PJ when asked (which he probably shouldn't, because of this very thing), but no one knows the state of the guy's mind 24/7. it's probably more of a snapshot of a 2 second annoyance than anything.
he has every reason to be annoyed at that. he was with the biggest band in the world, and barely gets a mention anywhere like he was some session drummer for a couple songs.
the rock hall induction, to be clear, was not the band's choice. that was the hall's. always has been.
someone brings up my shithead ex girlfriend that cheated on me, yeah, for 5 seconds I'm like "fuck her!", but then the literal rest of my life I don't think about her. this is the most likely scenario in my mind.
one comment here or there on facebook does not equal a person's whole state of mind. come on, people.
Re: HOF, when the Dead were inducted they refused to go unless every former member was included. The HOF agreed. Ed has a long history with the HOF, and if he wanted Dave included Dave would have been.
Totally agree on this point.
Do not agree that he could have even if he/the band wanted to take the fight. Or maybe if they put forth a case, but not "because he is Eddie Vedder and has history with the HoF".
But by that logic, does Eddie not want Jack inducted? Or was it not worth using his leverage to get Jack inducted, because Dave A might have had slipped through the cracks?
It's not about not wanting Jack, it's about choosing to not fight for either. Both are more deserving than Krusan, no offense to him. This is a band that refused to take the stage unless corporate signage was removed. It's not like the HoF would have told their headliner to piss off. There is precedent for the hall changing their stance based on the desires of the band
My take on it, and was back when PJ was inducted, is that RnR HoF should just induct the band/artist. Full stop. The band/artist as a whole. E.g. "This year PEARL JAM will be inducted" or "This year Grateful dead is one of the inductees!" and then the band/artist can order how many plaques from the RnR HoF as they need and decide what past and present members are deserving of one.
Should not be the RnR HoF deciding what constitutes the band, or what part of a band or era and it's legacy that matters or not. I find that odd. And unnecessary.
Also, about throwing around ones weight. KISS, which I imagine was the headliner the year they was inducted, wanted present members inducted and made a stink about it publicly - but that did not work. But yeah. Whatever. It is what it is.
Dave A should - in my world and for my youtubing pleasure - have been personally reached out to and invited by the band to join them and destroy Rearviewmirror up on that stage that night. Might be a weird opinion. Might not be in line with the art direction of the Unplugged DVD.
But my evenings alone with only youtube as my friend and an endless amount of screwdrivers, would have been a bit better with being able to watch that on repeat.
Agree he should have been there.
For KISS to want current touring members included is a bit ridiculous. That would be like Fleetwood Mac insisting on including Neil Finn. Fleetwood Mac did intervene to keep Bob Welch out of the induction, however!
Tommy Thayer has recorded two albums with the band as a full blown member, Eric Singer 4 albums. So they are more than "current touring members". They have also been a part of the band since early 00s. Eric Singer also in the early 90s for a few years
So they are not only "current touring members".
But, to my point -- this is a pointless discussion, and shouldn't be up to us or the HoF.
"RnR HoF has picked KISS to be inducted"
That is all that is needed.
Then KISS can decide what members of the band is "ridiculous" or not -- and them not ordering and sending a RnR HoF-statue to Vinnie Vincent will be something between the band and the fans. And would not include the RnR HoF playing God.
Post edited by Spiritual_Chaos on
"Mostly I think that people react sensitively because they know you’ve got a point"
jesus, all these comments about "dave being miserable" and "needing to move on with his life" are kind of over the top. The guy makes one flippant remark on facebook, and also will answer questions about PJ when asked (which he probably shouldn't, because of this very thing), but no one knows the state of the guy's mind 24/7. it's probably more of a snapshot of a 2 second annoyance than anything.
he has every reason to be annoyed at that. he was with the biggest band in the world, and barely gets a mention anywhere like he was some session drummer for a couple songs.
the rock hall induction, to be clear, was not the band's choice. that was the hall's. always has been.
someone brings up my shithead ex girlfriend that cheated on me, yeah, for 5 seconds I'm like "fuck her!", but then the literal rest of my life I don't think about her. this is the most likely scenario in my mind.
one comment here or there on facebook does not equal a person's whole state of mind. come on, people.
Re: HOF, when the Dead were inducted they refused to go unless every former member was included. The HOF agreed. Ed has a long history with the HOF, and if he wanted Dave included Dave would have been.
Totally agree on this point.
Do not agree that he could have even if he/the band wanted to take the fight. Or maybe if they put forth a case, but not "because he is Eddie Vedder and has history with the HoF".
But by that logic, does Eddie not want Jack inducted? Or was it not worth using his leverage to get Jack inducted, because Dave A might have had slipped through the cracks?
It's not about not wanting Jack, it's about choosing to not fight for either. Both are more deserving than Krusan, no offense to him. This is a band that refused to take the stage unless corporate signage was removed. It's not like the HoF would have told their headliner to piss off. There is precedent for the hall changing their stance based on the desires of the band
My take on it, and was back when PJ was inducted, is that RnR HoF should just induct the band/artist. Full stop. The band/artist as a whole. E.g. "This year PEARL JAM will be inducted" or "This year Grateful dead is one of the inductees!" and then the band/artist can order how many plaques from the RnR HoF as they need and decide what past and present members are deserving of one.
Should not be the RnR HoF deciding what constitutes the band, or what part of a band or era and it's legacy that matters or not. I find that odd. And unnecessary.
Also, about throwing around ones weight. KISS, which I imagine was the headliner the year they was inducted, wanted present members inducted and made a stink about it publicly - but that did not work. But yeah. Whatever. It is what it is.
Dave A should - in my world and for my youtubing pleasure - have been personally reached out to and invited by the band to join them and destroy Rearviewmirror up on that stage that night. Might be a weird opinion. Might not be in line with the art direction of the Unplugged DVD.
But my evenings alone with only youtube as my friend and an endless amount of screwdrivers, would have been a bit better with being able to watch that on repeat.
Agree he should have been there.
For KISS to want current touring members included is a bit ridiculous. That would be like Fleetwood Mac insisting on including Neil Finn. Fleetwood Mac did intervene to keep Bob Welch out of the induction, however!
Tommy Thayer has recorded two albums with the band as a full blown member, Eric Singer 4 albums. So they are more than "current touring members". They have also been a part of the band since early 00s. Eric Singer also in the early 90s for a few years
So they are not only "current touring members".
But, to my point -- this is a pointless discussion, and shouldn't be up to us or the HoF.
"RnR HoF has picked KISS to be inducted"
That is all that is needed.
Then KISS can decide what members of the band is "ridiculous" or not -- and them not ordering and sending a RnR HoF-statue to Vinnie Vincent will be something between the band and the fans. And would not include the RnR HoF playing God.
Fair enough. I'm not up to date on my kiss knowledge so sorry about the misunderstanding
jesus, all these comments about "dave being miserable" and "needing to move on with his life" are kind of over the top. The guy makes one flippant remark on facebook, and also will answer questions about PJ when asked (which he probably shouldn't, because of this very thing), but no one knows the state of the guy's mind 24/7. it's probably more of a snapshot of a 2 second annoyance than anything.
he has every reason to be annoyed at that. he was with the biggest band in the world, and barely gets a mention anywhere like he was some session drummer for a couple songs.
the rock hall induction, to be clear, was not the band's choice. that was the hall's. always has been.
someone brings up my shithead ex girlfriend that cheated on me, yeah, for 5 seconds I'm like "fuck her!", but then the literal rest of my life I don't think about her. this is the most likely scenario in my mind.
one comment here or there on facebook does not equal a person's whole state of mind. come on, people.
Re: HOF, when the Dead were inducted they refused to go unless every former member was included. The HOF agreed. Ed has a long history with the HOF, and if he wanted Dave included Dave would have been.
Totally agree on this point.
Do not agree that he could have even if he/the band wanted to take the fight. Or maybe if they put forth a case, but not "because he is Eddie Vedder and has history with the HoF".
But by that logic, does Eddie not want Jack inducted? Or was it not worth using his leverage to get Jack inducted, because Dave A might have had slipped through the cracks?
It's not about not wanting Jack, it's about choosing to not fight for either. Both are more deserving than Krusan, no offense to him. This is a band that refused to take the stage unless corporate signage was removed. It's not like the HoF would have told their headliner to piss off. There is precedent for the hall changing their stance based on the desires of the band
My take on it, and was back when PJ was inducted, is that RnR HoF should just induct the band/artist. Full stop. The band/artist as a whole. E.g. "This year PEARL JAM will be inducted" or "This year Grateful dead is one of the inductees!" and then the band/artist can order how many plaques from the RnR HoF as they need and decide what past and present members are deserving of one.
Should not be the RnR HoF deciding what constitutes the band, or what part of a band or era and it's legacy that matters or not. I find that odd. And unnecessary.
Also, about throwing around ones weight. KISS, which I imagine was the headliner the year they was inducted, wanted present members inducted and made a stink about it publicly - but that did not work. But yeah. Whatever. It is what it is.
Dave A should - in my world and for my youtubing pleasure - have been personally reached out to and invited by the band to join them and destroy Rearviewmirror up on that stage that night. Might be a weird opinion. Might not be in line with the art direction of the Unplugged DVD.
But my evenings alone with only youtube as my friend and an endless amount of screwdrivers, would have been a bit better with being able to watch that on repeat.
Agree he should have been there.
For KISS to want current touring members included is a bit ridiculous. That would be like Fleetwood Mac insisting on including Neil Finn. Fleetwood Mac did intervene to keep Bob Welch out of the induction, however!
Tommy Thayer has recorded two albums with the band as a full blown member, Eric Singer 4 albums. So they are more than "current touring members". They have also been a part of the band since early 00s. Eric Singer even also in the early 90s for a few years
So they are not only "current touring members".
But, to my point -- this is a pointless discussion, and shouldn't be up to us or the HoF.
"RnR HoF has picked KISS to be inducted"
That is all that is needed.
Then KISS can decide what members of the band is "ridiculous" or not -- and them not ordering and sending a RnR HoF-statue to Vinnie Vincent will be something between the band and the fans. And would not include the RnR HoF playing God.
First off Spiritual Chaos I want you to know that I don't know you, but I suddenly feel very invested in how well your nights alone with youtube and your screwdrivers go, so I'm rooting for youtube content that brings you joy! Sincerely!
On this though, I think it's a messy question and often there are no easy answers. Using KISS as an example, the era of KISS that makes EVERYONE agree (or I think everyone?) that they should be inducted, had 4, maybe 5 members that were just clearly the core of KISS during those years and albums. The fact that KISS has had steady touring members since the 00s who've recorded with them and toured with them, the question for me is, how many of those albums of the last 20 years are the reason KISS is being inducted? How many can the casual rock fan name, how many songs from those albums even? Those years are NOT the years that established KISS as an influence on Rock and Roll. Therefore if the current founding members only wanted the current touring members in, as a way to give the finger to the other original/early members, I say f*** that, just because whoever did whatever to whoever and sued whoever because of it, the legacy was established usually by a pretty easily identifiable set of people, maybe with a few rotations in and out at points but usually pretty clear.
So I don't think the remaining members can kick out the other key members from the epic days just as I don't think they should be able to add the newer members from the far-less-epic days just because they say so.
Btw if you ever want to see proof that the HOF both allows bands to pick who will play onstage sometimes but also requires all members of the "epic periods" to be inducted, watch the full induction acceptance speech from Blondie. I had NO IDEA they ended so acrimoniously. And the 2 members who clearly ended up in deep poopy with Debbie Harry & Chris Stein, they were inducted but not allowed to play in the band that performed. So I guess that's either a compromise or that's what the HOF will bend on, but they required Blondie to be inducted with those early members from the legendary albums. Wow did they get nasty at the end, and Debbie came back to twist the knife at the very end.
All that to say, going by my very clear, crisp guidelines (NOT! LOL!), Dave A AND Jack Irons should have gotten in- along with Matt just because of his longevity as a band member and the fact that they're still selling out tours and still considered very much "in the game". They could have played everything with Matt, heck they could have been visibly pissy and even let Jack play but not Dave if they were really wanting to make a point. But Ten, Vs & Vitalogy are the main albums that created the behemoth that is PJ, are they not? So Dave should get in for being in that phase.
Whereas KISS, sorry to say, are borderline "novelty act" now so I wouldn't see the urgency of inducting current members at all.
Those are just another rambling view, and I haven't had nearly enough screwdrivers so maybe I'll post another longer opinion after 10 more...
jesus, all these comments about "dave being miserable" and "needing to move on with his life" are kind of over the top. The guy makes one flippant remark on facebook, and also will answer questions about PJ when asked (which he probably shouldn't, because of this very thing), but no one knows the state of the guy's mind 24/7. it's probably more of a snapshot of a 2 second annoyance than anything.
he has every reason to be annoyed at that. he was with the biggest band in the world, and barely gets a mention anywhere like he was some session drummer for a couple songs.
the rock hall induction, to be clear, was not the band's choice. that was the hall's. always has been.
someone brings up my shithead ex girlfriend that cheated on me, yeah, for 5 seconds I'm like "fuck her!", but then the literal rest of my life I don't think about her. this is the most likely scenario in my mind.
one comment here or there on facebook does not equal a person's whole state of mind. come on, people.
Re: HOF, when the Dead were inducted they refused to go unless every former member was included. The HOF agreed. Ed has a long history with the HOF, and if he wanted Dave included Dave would have been.
Totally agree on this point.
Do not agree that he could have even if he/the band wanted to take the fight. Or maybe if they put forth a case, but not "because he is Eddie Vedder and has history with the HoF".
But by that logic, does Eddie not want Jack inducted? Or was it not worth using his leverage to get Jack inducted, because Dave A might have had slipped through the cracks?
It's not about not wanting Jack, it's about choosing to not fight for either. Both are more deserving than Krusan, no offense to him. This is a band that refused to take the stage unless corporate signage was removed. It's not like the HoF would have told their headliner to piss off. There is precedent for the hall changing their stance based on the desires of the band
My take on it, and was back when PJ was inducted, is that RnR HoF should just induct the band/artist. Full stop. The band/artist as a whole. E.g. "This year PEARL JAM will be inducted" or "This year Grateful dead is one of the inductees!" and then the band/artist can order how many plaques from the RnR HoF as they need and decide what past and present members are deserving of one.
Should not be the RnR HoF deciding what constitutes the band, or what part of a band or era and it's legacy that matters or not. I find that odd. And unnecessary.
Also, about throwing around ones weight. KISS, which I imagine was the headliner the year they was inducted, wanted present members inducted and made a stink about it publicly - but that did not work. But yeah. Whatever. It is what it is.
Dave A should - in my world and for my youtubing pleasure - have been personally reached out to and invited by the band to join them and destroy Rearviewmirror up on that stage that night. Might be a weird opinion. Might not be in line with the art direction of the Unplugged DVD.
But my evenings alone with only youtube as my friend and an endless amount of screwdrivers, would have been a bit better with being able to watch that on repeat.
He was invited, he declined. They publicly invited all former drummers as a guest. Now did they give him a personal phone call and say "We'd love to have you there with us"? I don't know. It would have been cool to see him play RVM again. I personally think he should have been included. Band members have been included for much less. He toured Ten, played on Vs and Vitalogy. He was their drummer during those prime years. He deserved it more than Jack deserved being inducted with RHCP in my opinion. But not my decision and I don't really know the process involved with it.
Dave A’’s performance on MTV Unplugged was awesome and speaks for itself . Shame he wasn’t recognized on the cover, but his presence that day is, and was, just as strong as any other member of the band. Can’t deny that, can’t deny me!!
Bridge Benefit 1994, San Francisco 1995, San Diego 1995 1 & 2, Missoula 1998, Los Angeles 2000, San Diego 2000, Eddie Vedder/Beck 2/26/2002, Santa Barbara 2003, Irvine 2003, San Diego 2003, Vancouver 2005, Gorge 2005, San Diego 2006, Los Angeles 2006 1 & 2, Santa Barbara 2006, Eddie Vedder 4/10/08, Eddie Vedder 4/12/08, Eddie Vedder 4/15/08, 7/12/2008, SF 8/28/09, LA 9/30/09, LA 10/1/09, LA 10/06/09, LA 10/07/09, San Diego 10/09/09, Eddie Vedder 7/6/2011, Eddie Vedder 7/8/2011, PJ20 9/3/2011, PJ20 9/4/2011, Vancouver 9/25/2011, San Diego 11/21/13, LA 11/24/13, Ohana 9/25/21, Ohana 9/26/21, Ohana 10/1/21, EV 2/17/22, LA Forum 5/6/22, LA Forum 5/7/22, EV 10/1/22, EV 9/30/23
On this though, I think it's a messy question and often there are no easy answers. Using KISS as an example, the era of KISS that makes EVERYONE agree (or I think everyone?) that they should be inducted, had 4, maybe 5 members that were just clearly the core of KISS during those years and albums. The fact that KISS has had steady touring members since the 00s who've recorded with them and toured with them, the question for me is, how many of those albums of the last 20 years are the reason KISS is being inducted? How many can the casual rock fan name, how many songs from those albums even? Those years are NOT the years that established KISS as an influence on Rock and Roll. Therefore if the current founding members only wanted the current touring members in, as a way to give the finger to the other original/early members, I say f*** that, just because whoever did whatever to whoever and sued whoever because of it, the legacy was established usually by a pretty easily identifiable set of people, maybe with a few rotations in and out at points but usually pretty clear.
First, the whole "they are inducted for this era or for this time in history", like "Neil Young is inducted because of the year when Heart of Gold was on the charts, two tours in the 70s he did with Crazy Horse and then we add 1989-1992 to that list because one in our induction commitee really enjoyed Harvets Moon" is, to me pointless. If he's a name on the radar of the comitte, it doesn't matter when or why. Maybe for the pitch that Tom Morello will use in his powerpoint to his collegues in the HoF. But who cares.
A good counterpoint is that the HoF can overrule the band and decide "objectivly" that certain members were important to the band even with the current band being assholes (like one could picture KISS, or The Eagles or whoever could be).
But that is still kind of moot, if the HoF inducts the band/artist as a whole full stop period no need to dig into what members or not. Then to them, and to the fans they are inducted. Then if KISS would say "we have invited Ace to hold an acceptence speech, but not Peter because Peter was such a pain in the ass and not that good of a drummer anyways"... then whatever. I guess.
Now I remember Gene and Paul refusing to play live if not Eric and Tommy could be there.. and KISS never played live at the show. A little sad, last time Ace, Peter, Gene and Paul were in the same room together.
"Mostly I think that people react sensitively because they know you’ve got a point"
jesus, all these comments about "dave being miserable" and "needing to move on with his life" are kind of over the top. The guy makes one flippant remark on facebook, and also will answer questions about PJ when asked (which he probably shouldn't, because of this very thing), but no one knows the state of the guy's mind 24/7. it's probably more of a snapshot of a 2 second annoyance than anything.
he has every reason to be annoyed at that. he was with the biggest band in the world, and barely gets a mention anywhere like he was some session drummer for a couple songs.
the rock hall induction, to be clear, was not the band's choice. that was the hall's. always has been.
someone brings up my shithead ex girlfriend that cheated on me, yeah, for 5 seconds I'm like "fuck her!", but then the literal rest of my life I don't think about her. this is the most likely scenario in my mind.
one comment here or there on facebook does not equal a person's whole state of mind. come on, people.
Re: HOF, when the Dead were inducted they refused to go unless every former member was included. The HOF agreed. Ed has a long history with the HOF, and if he wanted Dave included Dave would have been.
Totally agree on this point.
Do not agree that he could have even if he/the band wanted to take the fight. Or maybe if they put forth a case, but not "because he is Eddie Vedder and has history with the HoF".
But by that logic, does Eddie not want Jack inducted? Or was it not worth using his leverage to get Jack inducted, because Dave A might have had slipped through the cracks?
It's not about not wanting Jack, it's about choosing to not fight for either. Both are more deserving than Krusan, no offense to him. This is a band that refused to take the stage unless corporate signage was removed. It's not like the HoF would have told their headliner to piss off. There is precedent for the hall changing their stance based on the desires of the band
My take on it, and was back when PJ was inducted, is that RnR HoF should just induct the band/artist. Full stop. The band/artist as a whole. E.g. "This year PEARL JAM will be inducted" or "This year Grateful dead is one of the inductees!" and then the band/artist can order how many plaques from the RnR HoF as they need and decide what past and present members are deserving of one.
Should not be the RnR HoF deciding what constitutes the band, or what part of a band or era and it's legacy that matters or not. I find that odd. And unnecessary.
Also, about throwing around ones weight. KISS, which I imagine was the headliner the year they was inducted, wanted present members inducted and made a stink about it publicly - but that did not work. But yeah. Whatever. It is what it is.
Dave A should - in my world and for my youtubing pleasure - have been personally reached out to and invited by the band to join them and destroy Rearviewmirror up on that stage that night. Might be a weird opinion. Might not be in line with the art direction of the Unplugged DVD.
But my evenings alone with only youtube as my friend and an endless amount of screwdrivers, would have been a bit better with being able to watch that on repeat.
He was invited, he declined. They publicly invited all former drummers as a guest.
So, if you looked me in the eye while saing this -- would you be able to stay straight faced and without turning red in the face when claiming that, that you consider that to be an honest and true invite, and not in fact a non-invite?
And if you truly and honestly and without spin doctoring it - consider that an invite -- do you then think the band wanted Dave A to be there when celebrating the Rock and Roll Hall of Greatness of the band?
Not to linger on the HoF. I don't know who brought us into discussing that.
"Mostly I think that people react sensitively because they know you’ve got a point"
jesus, all these comments about "dave being miserable" and "needing to move on with his life" are kind of over the top. The guy makes one flippant remark on facebook, and also will answer questions about PJ when asked (which he probably shouldn't, because of this very thing), but no one knows the state of the guy's mind 24/7. it's probably more of a snapshot of a 2 second annoyance than anything.
he has every reason to be annoyed at that. he was with the biggest band in the world, and barely gets a mention anywhere like he was some session drummer for a couple songs.
the rock hall induction, to be clear, was not the band's choice. that was the hall's. always has been.
someone brings up my shithead ex girlfriend that cheated on me, yeah, for 5 seconds I'm like "fuck her!", but then the literal rest of my life I don't think about her. this is the most likely scenario in my mind.
one comment here or there on facebook does not equal a person's whole state of mind. come on, people.
Re: HOF, when the Dead were inducted they refused to go unless every former member was included. The HOF agreed. Ed has a long history with the HOF, and if he wanted Dave included Dave would have been.
Totally agree on this point.
Do not agree that he could have even if he/the band wanted to take the fight. Or maybe if they put forth a case, but not "because he is Eddie Vedder and has history with the HoF".
But by that logic, does Eddie not want Jack inducted? Or was it not worth using his leverage to get Jack inducted, because Dave A might have had slipped through the cracks?
It's not about not wanting Jack, it's about choosing to not fight for either. Both are more deserving than Krusan, no offense to him. This is a band that refused to take the stage unless corporate signage was removed. It's not like the HoF would have told their headliner to piss off. There is precedent for the hall changing their stance based on the desires of the band
My take on it, and was back when PJ was inducted, is that RnR HoF should just induct the band/artist. Full stop. The band/artist as a whole. E.g. "This year PEARL JAM will be inducted" or "This year Grateful dead is one of the inductees!" and then the band/artist can order how many plaques from the RnR HoF as they need and decide what past and present members are deserving of one.
Should not be the RnR HoF deciding what constitutes the band, or what part of a band or era and it's legacy that matters or not. I find that odd. And unnecessary.
Also, about throwing around ones weight. KISS, which I imagine was the headliner the year they was inducted, wanted present members inducted and made a stink about it publicly - but that did not work. But yeah. Whatever. It is what it is.
Dave A should - in my world and for my youtubing pleasure - have been personally reached out to and invited by the band to join them and destroy Rearviewmirror up on that stage that night. Might be a weird opinion. Might not be in line with the art direction of the Unplugged DVD.
But my evenings alone with only youtube as my friend and an endless amount of screwdrivers, would have been a bit better with being able to watch that on repeat.
He was invited, he declined. They publicly invited all former drummers as a guest.
So, if you looked me in the eye while saing this -- would you be able to stay straight faced and without turning red in the face when claiming that, that you consider that to be an honest and true invite, and not in fact a non-invite?
And if you truly and honestly and without spin doctoring it - consider that an invite -- do you then think the band wanted Dave A to be there when celebrating the Rock and Roll Hall of Greatness of the band?
Not to linger on the HoF. I don't know who brought us into discussing that.
I don’t know. I don’t have any idea if PJ was honest behind that invite or not or how they feel about Dave A 25 years later. I would think if they weren’t and Dave tried to take them up on it anyway they’d follow through.
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on2legs
Standing in the Jersey rain… Posts: 14,436
He was invited, he declined. They publicly invited all former drummers as a guest.
This is part of what makes me believe he is more interested in airing things out to the public than finding a resolution.
Exactly. Maybe that’s one of the reasons he was fired (stories of alcohol abuse as well), not being able to keep his mouth shut. Laying low, not discussing band issues, maybe these were part of the rules and obviously he isn’t (wasn’t) capable of it.
On this though, I think it's a messy question and often there are no easy answers. Using KISS as an example, the era of KISS that makes EVERYONE agree (or I think everyone?) that they should be inducted, had 4, maybe 5 members that were just clearly the core of KISS during those years and albums. The fact that KISS has had steady touring members since the 00s who've recorded with them and toured with them, the question for me is, how many of those albums of the last 20 years are the reason KISS is being inducted? How many can the casual rock fan name, how many songs from those albums even? Those years are NOT the years that established KISS as an influence on Rock and Roll. Therefore if the current founding members only wanted the current touring members in, as a way to give the finger to the other original/early members, I say f*** that, just because whoever did whatever to whoever and sued whoever because of it, the legacy was established usually by a pretty easily identifiable set of people, maybe with a few rotations in and out at points but usually pretty clear.
First, the whole "they are inducted for this era or for this time in history", like "Neil Young is inducted because of the year when Heart of Gold was on the charts, two tours in the 70s he did with Crazy Horse and then we add 1989-1992 to that list because one in our induction commitee really enjoyed Harvets Moon" is, to me pointless. If he's a name on the radar of the comitte, it doesn't matter when or why. Maybe for the pitch that Tom Morello will use in his powerpoint to his collegues in the HoF. But who cares.
A good counterpoint is that the HoF can overrule the band and decide "objectivly" that certain members were important to the band even with the current band being assholes (like one could picture KISS, or The Eagles or whoever could be).
But that is still kind of moot, if the HoF inducts the band/artist as a whole full stop period no need to dig into what members or not. Then to them, and to the fans they are inducted. Then if KISS would say "we have invited Ace to hold an acceptence speech, but not Peter because Peter was such a pain in the ass and not that good of a drummer anyways"... then whatever. I guess.
Now I remember Gene and Paul refusing to play live if not Eric and Tommy could be there.. and KISS never played live at the show. A little sad, last time Ace, Peter, Gene and Paul were in the same room together.
That's cool, can agree to disagree. To me there is always either an era (or multiple eras) that most music fanatics can agree was what made a band or artist game-changers, or they (much more rare) have been game-changers from start to finish. Since the HOF has never been a truly scientific or "These are the rules and we always comply by them" body, it makes tons of sense to me that if nothing else, those in the band in their most influential periods should be non-negotiably included for a HOF acceptance. Who performs at the show is something else, as is who else is also allowed to receive official honors.
But without that era(s) of widely-accepted-as-game-changing music, we wouldn't be talking about that artist/band at all, so to focus on it makes all the sense in the world to me.
As with most things, there are clearly a lot of ways to view this and a lot of strong opinions about it.
He was invited, he declined. They publicly invited all former drummers as a guest.
This is part of what makes me believe he is more interested in airing things out to the public than finding a resolution.
You honestly believe the band posting something on its website is a good faith invitation?
All he had to do was say yes. If the band backed out after that then they are the ones that look bad.
You, mean that he should have just tweeted out a public "yes" on twitter?
I'm assuming as a former member who still receives royalties, he has a way to get a hold of the band, management, someone in charge, etc. He could have gotten word to the band or management without a public post on social media that he was interested. Now if all that happened was a public open invite on the internet, I wouldn't feel like it was a personal invitation myself and may not go. But I wouldn't claim I was never invited (I don't know if he has claimed that, or just people are making that claim on his behalf?). I also don't know that no one ever did reach out to him? Are people just assuming that the public announcement is the only invite he got, or has that been verified by Dave? Either way, sincere or not, he was invited. He chose not to go. If he wanted to, he has ways to get a hold of people in charge and could have gone.
jesus, all these comments about "dave being miserable" and "needing to move on with his life" are kind of over the top. The guy makes one flippant remark on facebook, and also will answer questions about PJ when asked (which he probably shouldn't, because of this very thing), but no one knows the state of the guy's mind 24/7. it's probably more of a snapshot of a 2 second annoyance than anything.
he has every reason to be annoyed at that. he was with the biggest band in the world, and barely gets a mention anywhere like he was some session drummer for a couple songs.
the rock hall induction, to be clear, was not the band's choice. that was the hall's. always has been.
someone brings up my shithead ex girlfriend that cheated on me, yeah, for 5 seconds I'm like "fuck her!", but then the literal rest of my life I don't think about her. this is the most likely scenario in my mind.
one comment here or there on facebook does not equal a person's whole state of mind. come on, people.
Re: HOF, when the Dead were inducted they refused to go unless every former member was included. The HOF agreed. Ed has a long history with the HOF, and if he wanted Dave included Dave would have been.
Totally agree on this point.
Do not agree that he could have even if he/the band wanted to take the fight. Or maybe if they put forth a case, but not "because he is Eddie Vedder and has history with the HoF".
But by that logic, does Eddie not want Jack inducted? Or was it not worth using his leverage to get Jack inducted, because Dave A might have had slipped through the cracks?
It's not about not wanting Jack, it's about choosing to not fight for either. Both are more deserving than Krusan, no offense to him. This is a band that refused to take the stage unless corporate signage was removed. It's not like the HoF would have told their headliner to piss off. There is precedent for the hall changing their stance based on the desires of the band
My take on it, and was back when PJ was inducted, is that RnR HoF should just induct the band/artist. Full stop. The band/artist as a whole. E.g. "This year PEARL JAM will be inducted" or "This year Grateful dead is one of the inductees!" and then the band/artist can order how many plaques from the RnR HoF as they need and decide what past and present members are deserving of one.
Should not be the RnR HoF deciding what constitutes the band, or what part of a band or era and it's legacy that matters or not. I find that odd. And unnecessary.
Also, about throwing around ones weight. KISS, which I imagine was the headliner the year they was inducted, wanted present members inducted and made a stink about it publicly - but that did not work. But yeah. Whatever. It is what it is.
Dave A should - in my world and for my youtubing pleasure - have been personally reached out to and invited by the band to join them and destroy Rearviewmirror up on that stage that night. Might be a weird opinion. Might not be in line with the art direction of the Unplugged DVD.
But my evenings alone with only youtube as my friend and an endless amount of screwdrivers, would have been a bit better with being able to watch that on repeat.
if it was left up to the current incarnation of any band, many deserving members would have been snubbed because of a personal vendetta (see: Guns N Roses, Van Halen, among MANY others).
I had read that he was invited, but the ticket to be a guest would have been $10,000 or some bullshit like that. No idea if that's true. I may have read that on alt nation, don't remember.
here's a rolling stone article with SOME info (but nothing to do with my previous paragraph):
Now if all that happened was a public open invite on the internet, I wouldn't feel like it was a personal invitation myself and may not go. But I wouldn't claim I was never invited (I don't know if he has claimed that, or just people are making that claim on his behalf?).
Here is what he said at the time:
Hello, David Abbruzzese here….
Not true, the band and the hall did not invite or contact me.. The band tweeted that they welcomed the idea of the event granting the possibility of all the drummers to be in the same room. That isnt an invite.
I personally have deep respect for all drummers and of course the five that participated in the pearl jam bands carreer… I am going to say this; For the band to put me in the same light as Matt Chamberlain & Dave K really was a slap in the face. Nothing to do with those guys as people or players. Respect… but as a contributor? A band member? A definitive contributor to the energy and power of where the band went? …the sacrifices, the work, the physical and emotional contributions…not to mention the personal weight of carrying onthrough and after unceremonious and disrespectful way I was fired. I gave this band all I had to give every single moment I was in it. I never played for a paycheck. I never let the band down. I never let the music down. I never let the fans down… not once. I suppose that is why I am still such a point of contention. Truth be told, if I would have been inducted, I would have requested my tech, Jimmy Shoaf Jr. and my daughter, Francesca to say a few words on my behalf. If they had invited me to be there to witness the bands induction? Nope. To do that would justify the mistake and disrespect the core fans that took this band to heart back when all we were to become, we had to earn and also, most importantly, we had to prove we deserved every single time we took the stage. And we did that. We, the Pearl Jam band & original crew, deserved to be inducted & respected. I’m proud of my old friends for managing it all so well. I dont know if I heard anyone say it, but you’re welcome and thank you, too
If I ask you to marry me. But I am not being sinsere. Then it doesn't matter if I say the words. I do not really ask you to marry me. It's an empty gesture.
But whatever. This is so 2017 all over again.
Ace and Peter and Gene and Paul should have played together in makeup and their tuxedos (Dressed to Kill cover style) Axl Rose should have showed up and played with Guns N Roses Dave A should have played State of Love and Trust. Victoria needs to be back when Spice Girls get inducted.
"Mostly I think that people react sensitively because they know you’ve got a point"
jesus, all these comments about "dave being miserable" and "needing to move on with his life" are kind of over the top. The guy makes one flippant remark on facebook, and also will answer questions about PJ when asked (which he probably shouldn't, because of this very thing), but no one knows the state of the guy's mind 24/7. it's probably more of a snapshot of a 2 second annoyance than anything.
he has every reason to be annoyed at that. he was with the biggest band in the world, and barely gets a mention anywhere like he was some session drummer for a couple songs.
the rock hall induction, to be clear, was not the band's choice. that was the hall's. always has been.
someone brings up my shithead ex girlfriend that cheated on me, yeah, for 5 seconds I'm like "fuck her!", but then the literal rest of my life I don't think about her. this is the most likely scenario in my mind.
one comment here or there on facebook does not equal a person's whole state of mind. come on, people.
Re: HOF, when the Dead were inducted they refused to go unless every former member was included. The HOF agreed. Ed has a long history with the HOF, and if he wanted Dave included Dave would have been.
Totally agree on this point.
Do not agree that he could have even if he/the band wanted to take the fight. Or maybe if they put forth a case, but not "because he is Eddie Vedder and has history with the HoF".
But by that logic, does Eddie not want Jack inducted? Or was it not worth using his leverage to get Jack inducted, because Dave A might have had slipped through the cracks?
It's not about not wanting Jack, it's about choosing to not fight for either. Both are more deserving than Krusan, no offense to him. This is a band that refused to take the stage unless corporate signage was removed. It's not like the HoF would have told their headliner to piss off. There is precedent for the hall changing their stance based on the desires of the band
My take on it, and was back when PJ was inducted, is that RnR HoF should just induct the band/artist. Full stop. The band/artist as a whole. E.g. "This year PEARL JAM will be inducted" or "This year Grateful dead is one of the inductees!" and then the band/artist can order how many plaques from the RnR HoF as they need and decide what past and present members are deserving of one.
Should not be the RnR HoF deciding what constitutes the band, or what part of a band or era and it's legacy that matters or not. I find that odd. And unnecessary.
Also, about throwing around ones weight. KISS, which I imagine was the headliner the year they was inducted, wanted present members inducted and made a stink about it publicly - but that did not work. But yeah. Whatever. It is what it is.
Dave A should - in my world and for my youtubing pleasure - have been personally reached out to and invited by the band to join them and destroy Rearviewmirror up on that stage that night. Might be a weird opinion. Might not be in line with the art direction of the Unplugged DVD.
But my evenings alone with only youtube as my friend and an endless amount of screwdrivers, would have been a bit better with being able to watch that on repeat.
if it was left up to the current incarnation of any band, many deserving members would have been snubbed because of a personal vendetta (see: Guns N Roses, Van Halen, among MANY others).
Yeah. That is a valid point, to some degree. But if the band as a whole without the "listing the members who count" is inducted - than there would be no snubbing. Okey, they might not get a small statue and they might be invited to play with the band or whatever. But that still happens. So... but yeah. I still think my opinion on it is the better option. But, obviously one can have different POVs on that.
"Mostly I think that people react sensitively because they know you’ve got a point"
jesus, all these comments about "dave being miserable" and "needing to move on with his life" are kind of over the top. The guy makes one flippant remark on facebook, and also will answer questions about PJ when asked (which he probably shouldn't, because of this very thing), but no one knows the state of the guy's mind 24/7. it's probably more of a snapshot of a 2 second annoyance than anything.
he has every reason to be annoyed at that. he was with the biggest band in the world, and barely gets a mention anywhere like he was some session drummer for a couple songs.
the rock hall induction, to be clear, was not the band's choice. that was the hall's. always has been.
someone brings up my shithead ex girlfriend that cheated on me, yeah, for 5 seconds I'm like "fuck her!", but then the literal rest of my life I don't think about her. this is the most likely scenario in my mind.
one comment here or there on facebook does not equal a person's whole state of mind. come on, people.
Re: HOF, when the Dead were inducted they refused to go unless every former member was included. The HOF agreed. Ed has a long history with the HOF, and if he wanted Dave included Dave would have been.
I agree with this. Some how the Chili Peppers got in Josh Klinghoffer. Metallica got Robert Trujillo in. Do not tell me at the time of induction these guys were worthy to be included in their bands. The hall is shitty. So they decide Dave Krusen gets to go in cause he played on the first record but Chad Channing does not get in even though he played on Nirvana's first album. I think bands have more pull and that Pearl Jam just didn't want Dave A in for whatever reason.
Now if all that happened was a public open invite on the internet, I wouldn't feel like it was a personal invitation myself and may not go. But I wouldn't claim I was never invited (I don't know if he has claimed that, or just people are making that claim on his behalf?).
Here is what he said at the time:
Hello, David Abbruzzese here….
Not true, the band and the hall did not invite or contact me.. The band tweeted that they welcomed the idea of the event granting the possibility of all the drummers to be in the same room. That isnt an invite.
I personally have deep respect for all drummers and of course the five that participated in the pearl jam bands carreer… I am going to say this; For the band to put me in the same light as Matt Chamberlain & Dave K really was a slap in the face. Nothing to do with those guys as people or players. Respect… but as a contributor? A band member? A definitive contributor to the energy and power of where the band went? …the sacrifices, the work, the physical and emotional contributions…not to mention the personal weight of carrying onthrough and after unceremonious and disrespectful way I was fired. I gave this band all I had to give every single moment I was in it. I never played for a paycheck. I never let the band down. I never let the music down. I never let the fans down… not once. I suppose that is why I am still such a point of contention. Truth be told, if I would have been inducted, I would have requested my tech, Jimmy Shoaf Jr. and my daughter, Francesca to say a few words on my behalf. If they had invited me to be there to witness the bands induction? Nope. To do that would justify the mistake and disrespect the core fans that took this band to heart back when all we were to become, we had to earn and also, most importantly, we had to prove we deserved every single time we took the stage. And we did that. We, the Pearl Jam band & original crew, deserved to be inducted & respected. I’m proud of my old friends for managing it all so well. I dont know if I heard anyone say it, but you’re welcome and thank you, too
If I ask you to marry me. But I am not being sinsere. Then it doesn't matter if I say the words. I do not really ask you to marry me. It's an empty gesture.
But whatever. This is so 2017 all over again.
Ace and Peter and Gene and Paul should have played together in makeup and their tuxedos (Dressed to Kill cover style) Axl Rose should have showed up and played with Guns N Roses Dave A should have played State of Love and Trust. Victoria needs to be back when Spice Girls get inducted.
The comment was did they actually invite him or not. There was an open invite for him. I’m not playing semantics. Semantics would be saying the invite doesn’t count because it wasn’t sincere enough, or that the members didn’t personally reach out to him. Marriage is a much bigger commitment than an evening together. It’s more like being invited to a wedding though an invitation in the mail even though you know you’re only invited out of obligation because you’re family and they don’t care if you go or not. You can tell yourself if they really wanted you to come they would have called with a personal invitation, but at the end of the day you were invited and have the opportunity to go. I agree in that he should have been included, members of other bands have been included for contributing much less. I just disagree that he didn’t have a chance to go. I don’t blame him, I may not have. But I wouldn’t be saying I wasn’t invited either.
I had read that he was invited, but the ticket to be a guest would have been $10,000 or some bullshit like that. No idea if that's true. I may have read that on alt nation, don't remember.
here's a rolling stone article with SOME info (but nothing to do with my previous paragraph):
I can absolutely confirm, because I had this conversation with some band members of a band being inducted in the last years, that the HOF has an initial "invite list" for each band or artist, and that the HOF requires any band inviting anyone beyond that artist and a certain # of guest spots to pay $10,000 or more per ticket. I actually have had that convo with 2 bands inducted, and in one case a band member who was literally ALWAYS in the band up until it's end, but was at odds with the band member who was "offically the main band point of contact" even though they were broken up, this band member was not going to get a free ticket or a statue. Somehow in the end the band member had their ticket paid for by a fellow musician who admired the band, and it was negotiated beyond the "offical main point of contact for band" that this band member also got a statue.
But in both cases, a lot more people got "invites" than were on the list of "inductees" who get a statue, a free ticket and usually at least 1 free guest or family tix.
That's all to say, on this "Was Dave A invited or not" question, if he said (as quoted above) "I'm not going to go to watch them get inducted", it may mean he was invited to the ceremony if he wanted to pay $10,000, but he wasn't invited as an inductee.
I believe the band's tweet/announcement inviting all past drummers was indeed an open invitation. Surely they didn't mean Dave A. was "invited" to buy a ticket in the nosebleeds like any other rock fan. If I recall, Jack was sitting in proximity to the band at the event and joined them on stage for the Rockin in the Free World finale. If Dave A. had reached out to the band, they likely would have made similar accommodations for him. It seems the band was in the spirit of honoring all members and crew, current and former at the event. And Ed did note that Dave A. is a great drummer in his induction speech.
Comments
For KISS to want current touring members included is a bit ridiculous. That would be like Fleetwood Mac insisting on including Neil Finn. Fleetwood Mac did intervene to keep Bob Welch out of the induction, however!
So they are not only "current touring members".
But, to my point -- this is a pointless discussion, and shouldn't be up to us or the HoF.
"RnR HoF has picked KISS to be inducted"
That is all that is needed.
Then KISS can decide what members of the band is "ridiculous" or not -- and them not ordering and sending a RnR HoF-statue to Vinnie Vincent will be something between the band and the fans. And would not include the RnR HoF playing God.
On this though, I think it's a messy question and often there are no easy answers. Using KISS as an example, the era of KISS that makes EVERYONE agree (or I think everyone?) that they should be inducted, had 4, maybe 5 members that were just clearly the core of KISS during those years and albums. The fact that KISS has had steady touring members since the 00s who've recorded with them and toured with them, the question for me is, how many of those albums of the last 20 years are the reason KISS is being inducted? How many can the casual rock fan name, how many songs from those albums even? Those years are NOT the years that established KISS as an influence on Rock and Roll. Therefore if the current founding members only wanted the current touring members in, as a way to give the finger to the other original/early members, I say f*** that, just because whoever did whatever to whoever and sued whoever because of it, the legacy was established usually by a pretty easily identifiable set of people, maybe with a few rotations in and out at points but usually pretty clear.
So I don't think the remaining members can kick out the other key members from the epic days just as I don't think they should be able to add the newer members from the far-less-epic days just because they say so.
Btw if you ever want to see proof that the HOF both allows bands to pick who will play onstage sometimes but also requires all members of the "epic periods" to be inducted, watch the full induction acceptance speech from Blondie. I had NO IDEA they ended so acrimoniously. And the 2 members who clearly ended up in deep poopy with Debbie Harry & Chris Stein, they were inducted but not allowed to play in the band that performed. So I guess that's either a compromise or that's what the HOF will bend on, but they required Blondie to be inducted with those early members from the legendary albums. Wow did they get nasty at the end, and Debbie came back to twist the knife at the very end.
All that to say, going by my very clear, crisp guidelines (NOT! LOL!), Dave A AND Jack Irons should have gotten in- along with Matt just because of his longevity as a band member and the fact that they're still selling out tours and still considered very much "in the game". They could have played everything with Matt, heck they could have been visibly pissy and even let Jack play but not Dave if they were really wanting to make a point. But Ten, Vs & Vitalogy are the main albums that created the behemoth that is PJ, are they not? So Dave should get in for being in that phase.
Whereas KISS, sorry to say, are borderline "novelty act" now so I wouldn't see the urgency of inducting current members at all.
Those are just another rambling view, and I haven't had nearly enough screwdrivers so maybe I'll post another longer opinion after 10 more...
I personally think he should have been included. Band members have been included for much less. He toured Ten, played on Vs and Vitalogy. He was their drummer during those prime years. He deserved it more than Jack deserved being inducted with RHCP in my opinion. But not my decision and I don't really know the process involved with it.
A good counterpoint is that the HoF can overrule the band and decide "objectivly" that certain members were important to the band even with the current band being assholes (like one could picture KISS, or The Eagles or whoever could be).
But that is still kind of moot, if the HoF inducts the band/artist as a whole full stop period no need to dig into what members or not. Then to them, and to the fans they are inducted. Then if KISS would say "we have invited Ace to hold an acceptence speech, but not Peter because Peter was such a pain in the ass and not that good of a drummer anyways"... then whatever. I guess.
Now I remember Gene and Paul refusing to play live if not Eric and Tommy could be there.. and KISS never played live at the show. A little sad, last time Ace, Peter, Gene and Paul were in the same room together.
And if you truly and honestly and without spin doctoring it - consider that an invite -- do you then think the band wanted Dave A to be there when celebrating the Rock and Roll Hall of Greatness of the band?
Not to linger on the HoF. I don't know who brought us into discussing that.
I am pretty certain there is only one video release of the show.
This is part of what makes me believe he is more interested in airing things out to the public than finding a resolution.
All he had to do was say yes. If the band backed out after that then they are the ones that look bad.
But without that era(s) of widely-accepted-as-game-changing music, we wouldn't be talking about that artist/band at all, so to focus on it makes all the sense in the world to me.
As with most things, there are clearly a lot of ways to view this and a lot of strong opinions about it.
Now if all that happened was a public open invite on the internet, I wouldn't feel like it was a personal invitation myself and may not go. But I wouldn't claim I was never invited (I don't know if he has claimed that, or just people are making that claim on his behalf?).
I also don't know that no one ever did reach out to him? Are people just assuming that the public announcement is the only invite he got, or has that been verified by Dave?
Either way, sincere or not, he was invited. He chose not to go. If he wanted to, he has ways to get a hold of people in charge and could have gone.
www.headstonesband.com
here's a rolling stone article with SOME info (but nothing to do with my previous paragraph):
https://www.rollingstone.com/music/music-news/ex-pearl-jam-drummer-band-didnt-officially-offer-rock-hall-invite-116675/
www.headstonesband.com
Hello, David Abbruzzese here….
Not true, the band and the hall did not invite or contact me.. The band tweeted that they welcomed the idea of the event granting the possibility of all the drummers to be in the same room. That isnt an invite.
I personally have deep respect for all drummers and of course the five that participated in the pearl jam bands carreer… I am going to say this; For the band to put me in the same light as Matt Chamberlain & Dave K really was a slap in the face. Nothing to do with those guys as people or players. Respect… but as a contributor? A band member? A definitive contributor to the energy and power of where the band went? …the sacrifices, the work, the physical and emotional contributions…not to mention the personal weight of carrying onthrough and after unceremonious and disrespectful way I was fired. I gave this band all I had to give every single moment I was in it. I never played for a paycheck. I never let the band down. I never let the music down. I never let the fans down… not once. I suppose that is why I am still such a point of contention. Truth be told, if I would have been inducted, I would have requested my tech, Jimmy Shoaf Jr. and my daughter, Francesca to say a few words on my behalf. If they had invited me to be there to witness the bands induction? Nope. To do that would justify the mistake and disrespect the core fans that took this band to heart back when all we were to become, we had to earn and also, most importantly, we had to prove we deserved every single time we took the stage. And we did that. We, the Pearl Jam band & original crew, deserved to be inducted & respected. I’m proud of my old friends for managing it all so well. I dont know if I heard anyone say it, but you’re welcome and thank you, too
You are playing a weird game of semantics here.
If I ask you to marry me. But I am not being sinsere. Then it doesn't matter if I say the words. I do not really ask you to marry me. It's an empty gesture.
But whatever. This is so 2017 all over again.
Ace and Peter and Gene and Paul should have played together in makeup and their tuxedos (Dressed to Kill cover style)
Axl Rose should have showed up and played with Guns N Roses
Dave A should have played State of Love and Trust.
Victoria needs to be back when Spice Girls get inducted.
I agree with this. Some how the Chili Peppers got in Josh Klinghoffer. Metallica got Robert Trujillo in. Do not tell me at the time of induction these guys were worthy to be included in their bands. The hall is shitty. So they decide Dave Krusen gets to go in cause he played on the first record but Chad Channing does not get in even though he played on Nirvana's first album. I think bands have more pull and that Pearl Jam just didn't want Dave A in for whatever reason.
www.headstonesband.com
Instead of "Pearl Jam -- that is, Ed, Jeffrey, Michael, Stonelicious, Matthew and David is inducted!"
It would have included e.g. Dave A. He would not have been snubbed by some arbitrary metric.
Marriage is a much bigger commitment than an evening together. It’s more like being invited to a wedding though an invitation in the mail even though you know you’re only invited out of obligation because you’re family and they don’t care if you go or not. You can tell yourself if they really wanted you to come they would have called with a personal invitation, but at the end of the day you were invited and have the opportunity to go.
I agree in that he should have been included, members of other bands have been included for contributing much less. I just disagree that he didn’t have a chance to go. I don’t blame him, I may not have. But I wouldn’t be saying I wasn’t invited either.
But in both cases, a lot more people got "invites" than were on the list of "inductees" who get a statue, a free ticket and usually at least 1 free guest or family tix.
That's all to say, on this "Was Dave A invited or not" question, if he said (as quoted above) "I'm not going to go to watch them get inducted", it may mean he was invited to the ceremony if he wanted to pay $10,000, but he wasn't invited as an inductee.
Make of all of that what you will...