Marjorie Taylor Greene

mace1229

mrussel1 said:

mace1229 said:

mrussel1 said:

mace1229 said:

mrussel1 said:

mace1229 said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

mace1229 said:

Is Biden referring to that Florida law that the Oscars made fun of? I don’t see how that is anti-trans.

What Flo Rida law are you referring to?

The one where you can’t tak about sex to first and second graders. I didn’t get why at the Oscars tbe hosts were chanting “gay, gay!” Someone told me it was making fun of that law, which has nothing to do with gay or trans.

That's not quite right.  Sex ed is already banned K-5 in Florida.  This law bans discussion of gender issues K-3.  It also allows a parent to sue a school district if they think their child was privy to such a discussion. 

You’re right, I just read a little more about it. I thought it was more broad.
I still don’t see the issue, and part of the problem with labeling it the “don’t say gay bill” and celebrities repeating that is it’s spreading misinformation about what it really says. Nothing that I saw said they can’t say “gay.” 

"Classroom instruction by school personnel or third parties on sexual orientation or gender identity may not occur in kindergarten through grade 3 or in a manner that is not age-appropriate or developmentally appropriate for students in accordance with state standards."
Got that from this NPR article.
https://www.npr.org/2022/03/28/1089221657/dont-say-gay-florida-desantis

You just can’t have classroom instruction about sexual orientation or gender identity. And why would you in first grade? You can still talk about civil rights and discrimination, historical figures who were gay, and so on. Just can’t have classroom instruction about what it means to be gay or a lesson about gender identity. And at 7 years old, leave it up to the parents to have that discussion. I don’t see if a kid asks “what is gay” that if a teacher answers “when someone has 2 daddys” or something like that fitting under this law, that’s not classroom instruction around sexual orientation. 

I think giving parents the right to sue a school for what a teacher might say in class is outrageous.  Here in Virginia, our new (R) governor established a hotline for parents to complain about teachers.  It's also outrageous that we are dividing parents from teachers, as if they are the enemies.  

That’s always been the case. Teachers get sued a lot, I’m willing to bet that story that was posted a while ago with the math teacher doing a Native American dance is getting sued. Many school shootings involve lawsuits against the school and sometimes teachers.  So thats not new.
And if there’s a law prohibiting an action, what’s the point of there’s no consequence?
I can’t have a lesson about teen suicide without notifying parents. If I knowingly and willingly ignore that and intentionally design a lesson about teen suicide, should I not face a consequence? That would likely be in the form of a lawsuit from any parents that objected.
I see no difference if there’s a law prohibiting me having a lesson around sexual orientation.
Also the reason I’ve always been union. Even when it wasn’t well represented and actually discouraged by the district, I’m joining that union. Union = lawyers.

There's a difference between a designed lesson and talking about something, isn't there?  Teachers talk in class.  Kids ask questions.  Now the state of FL has expressly allowed a law suit to be filed in that situation.  Isn't there a distinction here?

I don’t know if it does allow it though. The law specifically prohibits instruction. A kid asking a question and giving a brief, appropriate answer isn’t “instruction” to me. 

Intentionally setting aside class time to discuss what homosexuality means to you, that’s instruction.

mace1229

mrussel1 said:

JeBurkhardt said:

mrussel1 said:

mace1229 said:

mrussel1 said:

mace1229 said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

mace1229 said:

Is Biden referring to that Florida law that the Oscars made fun of? I don’t see how that is anti-trans.

What Flo Rida law are you referring to?

The one where you can’t tak about sex to first and second graders. I didn’t get why at the Oscars tbe hosts were chanting “gay, gay!” Someone told me it was making fun of that law, which has nothing to do with gay or trans.

That's not quite right.  Sex ed is already banned K-5 in Florida.  This law bans discussion of gender issues K-3.  It also allows a parent to sue a school district if they think their child was privy to such a discussion. 

You’re right, I just read a little more about it. I thought it was more broad.
I still don’t see the issue, and part of the problem with labeling it the “don’t say gay bill” and celebrities repeating that is it’s spreading misinformation about what it really says. Nothing that I saw said they can’t say “gay.” 

"Classroom instruction by school personnel or third parties on sexual orientation or gender identity may not occur in kindergarten through grade 3 or in a manner that is not age-appropriate or developmentally appropriate for students in accordance with state standards."
Got that from this NPR article.
https://www.npr.org/2022/03/28/1089221657/dont-say-gay-florida-desantis

You just can’t have classroom instruction about sexual orientation or gender identity. And why would you in first grade? You can still talk about civil rights and discrimination, historical figures who were gay, and so on. Just can’t have classroom instruction about what it means to be gay or a lesson about gender identity. And at 7 years old, leave it up to the parents to have that discussion. I don’t see if a kid asks “what is gay” that if a teacher answers “when someone has 2 daddys” or something like that fitting under this law, that’s not classroom instruction around sexual orientation. 

I think giving parents the right to sue a school for what a teacher might say in class is outrageous.  Here in Virginia, our new (R) governor established a hotline for parents to complain about teachers.  It's also outrageous that we are dividing parents from teachers, as if they are the enemies.  

As a spouse of a teacher I agree whole heartedly. Depending on the subject, at times teachers have to discuss sensitive topics that can make people uncomfortable. Seemingly innocuous lessons and conversations can be turned around on a teacher and get them reported. Years ago my wife had a parent complain about her and demand she get disciplined because of an answer she gave to a student who asked her a question about the lesson that she was teaching. The Principal dismissed the complaint for the BS it was, but not all administrators are willing to confront parents when they are wrong.

@mace1229 this is what I'm talking about.  These types of suits.  

That’s not a lawsuit. Nothing will stop parents from complaining. The parents of a straight A student complains about the teacher the first time their kids gets a B+. Parents complain every day.
My first year teaching a parent filed a report against me for being racist because I called the office on her daughter for refusing to get in her seat and then cussing me out. According to the mom, I wouldn’t have asked her to get in her seat if she was white. Nothing is going to stop parents from complaining to the school.

HughFreakingDillon

mace1229 said:

mrussel1 said:

JeBurkhardt said:

mrussel1 said:

mace1229 said:

mrussel1 said:

mace1229 said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

mace1229 said:

Is Biden referring to that Florida law that the Oscars made fun of? I don’t see how that is anti-trans.

What Flo Rida law are you referring to?

The one where you can’t tak about sex to first and second graders. I didn’t get why at the Oscars tbe hosts were chanting “gay, gay!” Someone told me it was making fun of that law, which has nothing to do with gay or trans.

That's not quite right.  Sex ed is already banned K-5 in Florida.  This law bans discussion of gender issues K-3.  It also allows a parent to sue a school district if they think their child was privy to such a discussion. 

You’re right, I just read a little more about it. I thought it was more broad.
I still don’t see the issue, and part of the problem with labeling it the “don’t say gay bill” and celebrities repeating that is it’s spreading misinformation about what it really says. Nothing that I saw said they can’t say “gay.” 

"Classroom instruction by school personnel or third parties on sexual orientation or gender identity may not occur in kindergarten through grade 3 or in a manner that is not age-appropriate or developmentally appropriate for students in accordance with state standards."
Got that from this NPR article.
https://www.npr.org/2022/03/28/1089221657/dont-say-gay-florida-desantis

You just can’t have classroom instruction about sexual orientation or gender identity. And why would you in first grade? You can still talk about civil rights and discrimination, historical figures who were gay, and so on. Just can’t have classroom instruction about what it means to be gay or a lesson about gender identity. And at 7 years old, leave it up to the parents to have that discussion. I don’t see if a kid asks “what is gay” that if a teacher answers “when someone has 2 daddys” or something like that fitting under this law, that’s not classroom instruction around sexual orientation. 

I think giving parents the right to sue a school for what a teacher might say in class is outrageous.  Here in Virginia, our new (R) governor established a hotline for parents to complain about teachers.  It's also outrageous that we are dividing parents from teachers, as if they are the enemies.  

As a spouse of a teacher I agree whole heartedly. Depending on the subject, at times teachers have to discuss sensitive topics that can make people uncomfortable. Seemingly innocuous lessons and conversations can be turned around on a teacher and get them reported. Years ago my wife had a parent complain about her and demand she get disciplined because of an answer she gave to a student who asked her a question about the lesson that she was teaching. The Principal dismissed the complaint for the BS it was, but not all administrators are willing to confront parents when they are wrong.

@mace1229 this is what I'm talking about.  These types of suits.  

That’s not a lawsuit. Nothing will stop parents from complaining. The parents of a straight A student complains about the teacher the first time their kids gets a B+. Parents complain every day.
My first year teaching a parent filed a report against me for being racist because I called the office on her daughter for refusing to get in her seat and then cussing me out. According to the mom, I wouldn’t have asked her to get in her seat if she was white. Nothing is going to stop parents from complaining to the school.

but these types of situations will turn into lawsuits with laws like these. 

mace1229

HughFreakingDillon said:

mace1229 said:

mrussel1 said:

JeBurkhardt said:

mrussel1 said:

mace1229 said:

mrussel1 said:

mace1229 said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

mace1229 said:

Is Biden referring to that Florida law that the Oscars made fun of? I don’t see how that is anti-trans.

What Flo Rida law are you referring to?

The one where you can’t tak about sex to first and second graders. I didn’t get why at the Oscars tbe hosts were chanting “gay, gay!” Someone told me it was making fun of that law, which has nothing to do with gay or trans.

That's not quite right.  Sex ed is already banned K-5 in Florida.  This law bans discussion of gender issues K-3.  It also allows a parent to sue a school district if they think their child was privy to such a discussion. 

You’re right, I just read a little more about it. I thought it was more broad.
I still don’t see the issue, and part of the problem with labeling it the “don’t say gay bill” and celebrities repeating that is it’s spreading misinformation about what it really says. Nothing that I saw said they can’t say “gay.” 

"Classroom instruction by school personnel or third parties on sexual orientation or gender identity may not occur in kindergarten through grade 3 or in a manner that is not age-appropriate or developmentally appropriate for students in accordance with state standards."
Got that from this NPR article.
https://www.npr.org/2022/03/28/1089221657/dont-say-gay-florida-desantis

You just can’t have classroom instruction about sexual orientation or gender identity. And why would you in first grade? You can still talk about civil rights and discrimination, historical figures who were gay, and so on. Just can’t have classroom instruction about what it means to be gay or a lesson about gender identity. And at 7 years old, leave it up to the parents to have that discussion. I don’t see if a kid asks “what is gay” that if a teacher answers “when someone has 2 daddys” or something like that fitting under this law, that’s not classroom instruction around sexual orientation. 

I think giving parents the right to sue a school for what a teacher might say in class is outrageous.  Here in Virginia, our new (R) governor established a hotline for parents to complain about teachers.  It's also outrageous that we are dividing parents from teachers, as if they are the enemies.  

As a spouse of a teacher I agree whole heartedly. Depending on the subject, at times teachers have to discuss sensitive topics that can make people uncomfortable. Seemingly innocuous lessons and conversations can be turned around on a teacher and get them reported. Years ago my wife had a parent complain about her and demand she get disciplined because of an answer she gave to a student who asked her a question about the lesson that she was teaching. The Principal dismissed the complaint for the BS it was, but not all administrators are willing to confront parents when they are wrong.

@mace1229 this is what I'm talking about.  These types of suits.  

That’s not a lawsuit. Nothing will stop parents from complaining. The parents of a straight A student complains about the teacher the first time their kids gets a B+. Parents complain every day.
My first year teaching a parent filed a report against me for being racist because I called the office on her daughter for refusing to get in her seat and then cussing me out. According to the mom, I wouldn’t have asked her to get in her seat if she was white. Nothing is going to stop parents from complaining to the school.

but these types of situations will turn into lawsuits with laws like these. 

I don’t see that happening any more than it already does. In this case would only happen if a teacher intentionally designed a lesson about what is homosexuality for a class of 7 year olds. The law prohibits that. 

The law also prohibits me from teaching about Christianity. And I’d get sued if I built a lesson around that. Kids can ask “what’s the difference between Jewish and Christian” and I can give a brief answer and move on. No one’s ever called it the “don’t say god law.”

2-feign-reluctance

Fuck this disgusting human being. Check yourself if you are a fan. 

The Juggler

Republicans love lawsuits, apparently. Who knew?

mace1229

2-feign-reluctance said:

Fuck this disgusting human being. Check yourself if you are a fan. 

For the record, I haven’t seen anyone defend MTG here. This is just a side topic of the Florida bill.

mace1229

The Juggler said:

Republicans love lawsuits, apparently. Who knew?

I don’t see the issue of suing teachers as Republican or democrat. Plenty of lawsuits against school have developed, not just Rs.

mrussel1

mace1229 said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

mace1229 said:

mrussel1 said:

JeBurkhardt said:

mrussel1 said:

mace1229 said:

mrussel1 said:

mace1229 said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

mace1229 said:

Is Biden referring to that Florida law that the Oscars made fun of? I don’t see how that is anti-trans.

What Flo Rida law are you referring to?

The one where you can’t tak about sex to first and second graders. I didn’t get why at the Oscars tbe hosts were chanting “gay, gay!” Someone told me it was making fun of that law, which has nothing to do with gay or trans.

That's not quite right.  Sex ed is already banned K-5 in Florida.  This law bans discussion of gender issues K-3.  It also allows a parent to sue a school district if they think their child was privy to such a discussion. 

You’re right, I just read a little more about it. I thought it was more broad.
I still don’t see the issue, and part of the problem with labeling it the “don’t say gay bill” and celebrities repeating that is it’s spreading misinformation about what it really says. Nothing that I saw said they can’t say “gay.” 

"Classroom instruction by school personnel or third parties on sexual orientation or gender identity may not occur in kindergarten through grade 3 or in a manner that is not age-appropriate or developmentally appropriate for students in accordance with state standards."
Got that from this NPR article.
https://www.npr.org/2022/03/28/1089221657/dont-say-gay-florida-desantis

You just can’t have classroom instruction about sexual orientation or gender identity. And why would you in first grade? You can still talk about civil rights and discrimination, historical figures who were gay, and so on. Just can’t have classroom instruction about what it means to be gay or a lesson about gender identity. And at 7 years old, leave it up to the parents to have that discussion. I don’t see if a kid asks “what is gay” that if a teacher answers “when someone has 2 daddys” or something like that fitting under this law, that’s not classroom instruction around sexual orientation. 

I think giving parents the right to sue a school for what a teacher might say in class is outrageous.  Here in Virginia, our new (R) governor established a hotline for parents to complain about teachers.  It's also outrageous that we are dividing parents from teachers, as if they are the enemies.  

As a spouse of a teacher I agree whole heartedly. Depending on the subject, at times teachers have to discuss sensitive topics that can make people uncomfortable. Seemingly innocuous lessons and conversations can be turned around on a teacher and get them reported. Years ago my wife had a parent complain about her and demand she get disciplined because of an answer she gave to a student who asked her a question about the lesson that she was teaching. The Principal dismissed the complaint for the BS it was, but not all administrators are willing to confront parents when they are wrong.

@mace1229 this is what I'm talking about.  These types of suits.  

That’s not a lawsuit. Nothing will stop parents from complaining. The parents of a straight A student complains about the teacher the first time their kids gets a B+. Parents complain every day.
My first year teaching a parent filed a report against me for being racist because I called the office on her daughter for refusing to get in her seat and then cussing me out. According to the mom, I wouldn’t have asked her to get in her seat if she was white. Nothing is going to stop parents from complaining to the school.

but these types of situations will turn into lawsuits with laws like these. 

I don’t see that happening any more than it already does. In this case would only happen if a teacher intentionally designed a lesson about what is homosexuality for a class of 7 year olds. The law prohibits that. 

The law also prohibits me from teaching about Christianity. And I’d get sued if I built a lesson around that. Kids can ask “what’s the difference between Jewish and Christian” and I can give a brief answer and move on. No one’s ever called it the “don’t say god law.”

Well that's really teh question, isn't it?  When does talking become instruction?  Does the law state to sue, there must be a lesson plan?  I doubt it.  

mace1229

HughFreakingDillon said:

mace1229 said:

mrussel1 said:

mace1229 said:

mrussel1 said:

mace1229 said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

mace1229 said:

Is Biden referring to that Florida law that the Oscars made fun of? I don’t see how that is anti-trans.

What Flo Rida law are you referring to?

The one where you can’t tak about sex to first and second graders. I didn’t get why at the Oscars tbe hosts were chanting “gay, gay!” Someone told me it was making fun of that law, which has nothing to do with gay or trans.

That's not quite right.  Sex ed is already banned K-5 in Florida.  This law bans discussion of gender issues K-3.  It also allows a parent to sue a school district if they think their child was privy to such a discussion. 

You’re right, I just read a little more about it. I thought it was more broad.
I still don’t see the issue, and part of the problem with labeling it the “don’t say gay bill” and celebrities repeating that is it’s spreading misinformation about what it really says. Nothing that I saw said they can’t say “gay.” 

"Classroom instruction by school personnel or third parties on sexual orientation or gender identity may not occur in kindergarten through grade 3 or in a manner that is not age-appropriate or developmentally appropriate for students in accordance with state standards."
Got that from this NPR article.
https://www.npr.org/2022/03/28/1089221657/dont-say-gay-florida-desantis

You just can’t have classroom instruction about sexual orientation or gender identity. And why would you in first grade? You can still talk about civil rights and discrimination, historical figures who were gay, and so on. Just can’t have classroom instruction about what it means to be gay or a lesson about gender identity. And at 7 years old, leave it up to the parents to have that discussion. I don’t see if a kid asks “what is gay” that if a teacher answers “when someone has 2 daddys” or something like that fitting under this law, that’s not classroom instruction around sexual orientation. 

I think giving parents the right to sue a school for what a teacher might say in class is outrageous.  Here in Virginia, our new (R) governor established a hotline for parents to complain about teachers.  It's also outrageous that we are dividing parents from teachers, as if they are the enemies.  

That’s always been the case. Teachers get sued a lot, I’m willing to bet that story that was posted a while ago with the math teacher doing a Native American dance is getting sued. Many school shootings involve lawsuits against the school and sometimes teachers.  So thats not new.
And if there’s a law prohibiting an action, what’s the point of there’s no consequence?
I can’t have a lesson about teen suicide without notifying parents. If I knowingly and willingly ignore that and intentionally design a lesson about teen suicide, should I not face a consequence? That would likely be in the form of a lawsuit from any parents that objected.
I see no difference if there’s a law prohibiting me having a lesson around sexual orientation.
Also the reason I’ve always been union. Even when it wasn’t well represented and actually discouraged by the district, I’m joining that union. Union = lawyers.

if a teacher is going out of their way to provide a lesson that is not part of the developed and approved curriculum, they should be spoken to and possibly disciplined. But merely answering a question of a student who is curious should not be liable. 

should a teacher in the 60's have been prohibited from, and sued for, answering a student's question about interracial relationships?

No, and I don’t read this law as saying that either. It prohibits instruction. It would be hard to prove in a lawsuit a question from a student was designed instruction.

The Juggler

mace1229 said:

The Juggler said:

Republicans love lawsuits, apparently. Who knew?

I don’t see the issue of suing teachers as Republican or democrat. Plenty of lawsuits against school have developed, not just Rs.

You will soon as these red states enact these stupid new laws. 

mace1229

mrussel1 said:

mace1229 said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

mace1229 said:

mrussel1 said:

JeBurkhardt said:

mrussel1 said:

mace1229 said:

mrussel1 said:

mace1229 said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

mace1229 said:

Is Biden referring to that Florida law that the Oscars made fun of? I don’t see how that is anti-trans.

What Flo Rida law are you referring to?

The one where you can’t tak about sex to first and second graders. I didn’t get why at the Oscars tbe hosts were chanting “gay, gay!” Someone told me it was making fun of that law, which has nothing to do with gay or trans.

That's not quite right.  Sex ed is already banned K-5 in Florida.  This law bans discussion of gender issues K-3.  It also allows a parent to sue a school district if they think their child was privy to such a discussion. 

You’re right, I just read a little more about it. I thought it was more broad.
I still don’t see the issue, and part of the problem with labeling it the “don’t say gay bill” and celebrities repeating that is it’s spreading misinformation about what it really says. Nothing that I saw said they can’t say “gay.” 

"Classroom instruction by school personnel or third parties on sexual orientation or gender identity may not occur in kindergarten through grade 3 or in a manner that is not age-appropriate or developmentally appropriate for students in accordance with state standards."
Got that from this NPR article.
https://www.npr.org/2022/03/28/1089221657/dont-say-gay-florida-desantis

You just can’t have classroom instruction about sexual orientation or gender identity. And why would you in first grade? You can still talk about civil rights and discrimination, historical figures who were gay, and so on. Just can’t have classroom instruction about what it means to be gay or a lesson about gender identity. And at 7 years old, leave it up to the parents to have that discussion. I don’t see if a kid asks “what is gay” that if a teacher answers “when someone has 2 daddys” or something like that fitting under this law, that’s not classroom instruction around sexual orientation. 

I think giving parents the right to sue a school for what a teacher might say in class is outrageous.  Here in Virginia, our new (R) governor established a hotline for parents to complain about teachers.  It's also outrageous that we are dividing parents from teachers, as if they are the enemies.  

As a spouse of a teacher I agree whole heartedly. Depending on the subject, at times teachers have to discuss sensitive topics that can make people uncomfortable. Seemingly innocuous lessons and conversations can be turned around on a teacher and get them reported. Years ago my wife had a parent complain about her and demand she get disciplined because of an answer she gave to a student who asked her a question about the lesson that she was teaching. The Principal dismissed the complaint for the BS it was, but not all administrators are willing to confront parents when they are wrong.

@mace1229 this is what I'm talking about.  These types of suits.  

That’s not a lawsuit. Nothing will stop parents from complaining. The parents of a straight A student complains about the teacher the first time their kids gets a B+. Parents complain every day.
My first year teaching a parent filed a report against me for being racist because I called the office on her daughter for refusing to get in her seat and then cussing me out. According to the mom, I wouldn’t have asked her to get in her seat if she was white. Nothing is going to stop parents from complaining to the school.

but these types of situations will turn into lawsuits with laws like these. 

I don’t see that happening any more than it already does. In this case would only happen if a teacher intentionally designed a lesson about what is homosexuality for a class of 7 year olds. The law prohibits that. 

The law also prohibits me from teaching about Christianity. And I’d get sued if I built a lesson around that. Kids can ask “what’s the difference between Jewish and Christian” and I can give a brief answer and move on. No one’s ever called it the “don’t say god law.”

Well that's really teh question, isn't it?  When does talking become instruction?  Does the law state to sue, there must be a lesson plan?  I doubt it.  

Based on my experience and apply some common sense I would say it depends on who initiates it and the response given. A teacher can’t have a 5 minute journal writing with a prompt of “what is homosexuality?” Then say “well the kids just asked me what homosexuality was so I was only answer their questions.”
But if a kid hears about the first gay president in a few years and asks “what is a gay president?” I don’t see how giving a short answer and moving on would apply here.
Same with religion. I can answer a question. And it comes up a lot in science. But I can’t design a lesson about intelligent design and talk about the Bible because I covered evolution the week before.

mace1229

Almost every change in schools was a result of a lawsuit. From not teaching creation, do special Ed instruction, food requirements, even bussing, suicide prevention protocol, school safety. You think only republicans have filed against schools?

OnWis97

mrussel1 said:

mace1229 said:

mrussel1 said:

mace1229 said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

mace1229 said:

Is Biden referring to that Florida law that the Oscars made fun of? I don’t see how that is anti-trans.

What Flo Rida law are you referring to?

The one where you can’t tak about sex to first and second graders. I didn’t get why at the Oscars tbe hosts were chanting “gay, gay!” Someone told me it was making fun of that law, which has nothing to do with gay or trans.

That's not quite right.  Sex ed is already banned K-5 in Florida.  This law bans discussion of gender issues K-3.  It also allows a parent to sue a school district if they think their child was privy to such a discussion. 

You’re right, I just read a little more about it. I thought it was more broad.
I still don’t see the issue, and part of the problem with labeling it the “don’t say gay bill” and celebrities repeating that is it’s spreading misinformation about what it really says. Nothing that I saw said they can’t say “gay.” 

"Classroom instruction by school personnel or third parties on sexual orientation or gender identity may not occur in kindergarten through grade 3 or in a manner that is not age-appropriate or developmentally appropriate for students in accordance with state standards."
Got that from this NPR article.
https://www.npr.org/2022/03/28/1089221657/dont-say-gay-florida-desantis

You just can’t have classroom instruction about sexual orientation or gender identity. And why would you in first grade? You can still talk about civil rights and discrimination, historical figures who were gay, and so on. Just can’t have classroom instruction about what it means to be gay or a lesson about gender identity. And at 7 years old, leave it up to the parents to have that discussion. I don’t see if a kid asks “what is gay” that if a teacher answers “when someone has 2 daddys” or something like that fitting under this law, that’s not classroom instruction around sexual orientation. 

I think giving parents the right to sue a school for what a teacher might say in class is outrageous.  Here in Virginia, our new (R) governor established a hotline for parents to complain about teachers.  It's also outrageous that we are dividing parents from teachers, as if they are the enemies.  

They are enemies. At least some of them. This is (culture) war.

HughFreakingDillon

mace1229 said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

mace1229 said:

mrussel1 said:

mace1229 said:

mrussel1 said:

mace1229 said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

mace1229 said:

Is Biden referring to that Florida law that the Oscars made fun of? I don’t see how that is anti-trans.

What Flo Rida law are you referring to?

The one where you can’t tak about sex to first and second graders. I didn’t get why at the Oscars tbe hosts were chanting “gay, gay!” Someone told me it was making fun of that law, which has nothing to do with gay or trans.

That's not quite right.  Sex ed is already banned K-5 in Florida.  This law bans discussion of gender issues K-3.  It also allows a parent to sue a school district if they think their child was privy to such a discussion. 

You’re right, I just read a little more about it. I thought it was more broad.
I still don’t see the issue, and part of the problem with labeling it the “don’t say gay bill” and celebrities repeating that is it’s spreading misinformation about what it really says. Nothing that I saw said they can’t say “gay.” 

"Classroom instruction by school personnel or third parties on sexual orientation or gender identity may not occur in kindergarten through grade 3 or in a manner that is not age-appropriate or developmentally appropriate for students in accordance with state standards."
Got that from this NPR article.
https://www.npr.org/2022/03/28/1089221657/dont-say-gay-florida-desantis

You just can’t have classroom instruction about sexual orientation or gender identity. And why would you in first grade? You can still talk about civil rights and discrimination, historical figures who were gay, and so on. Just can’t have classroom instruction about what it means to be gay or a lesson about gender identity. And at 7 years old, leave it up to the parents to have that discussion. I don’t see if a kid asks “what is gay” that if a teacher answers “when someone has 2 daddys” or something like that fitting under this law, that’s not classroom instruction around sexual orientation. 

I think giving parents the right to sue a school for what a teacher might say in class is outrageous.  Here in Virginia, our new (R) governor established a hotline for parents to complain about teachers.  It's also outrageous that we are dividing parents from teachers, as if they are the enemies.  

That’s always been the case. Teachers get sued a lot, I’m willing to bet that story that was posted a while ago with the math teacher doing a Native American dance is getting sued. Many school shootings involve lawsuits against the school and sometimes teachers.  So thats not new.
And if there’s a law prohibiting an action, what’s the point of there’s no consequence?
I can’t have a lesson about teen suicide without notifying parents. If I knowingly and willingly ignore that and intentionally design a lesson about teen suicide, should I not face a consequence? That would likely be in the form of a lawsuit from any parents that objected.
I see no difference if there’s a law prohibiting me having a lesson around sexual orientation.
Also the reason I’ve always been union. Even when it wasn’t well represented and actually discouraged by the district, I’m joining that union. Union = lawyers.

if a teacher is going out of their way to provide a lesson that is not part of the developed and approved curriculum, they should be spoken to and possibly disciplined. But merely answering a question of a student who is curious should not be liable. 

should a teacher in the 60's have been prohibited from, and sued for, answering a student's question about interracial relationships?

No, and I don’t read this law as saying that either. It prohibits instruction. It would be hard to prove in a lawsuit a question from a student was designed instruction.

I don't know, as mrussell said, that's all up for interpretation. 

mrussel1

OnWis97 said:

mrussel1 said:

mace1229 said:

mrussel1 said:

mace1229 said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

mace1229 said:

Is Biden referring to that Florida law that the Oscars made fun of? I don’t see how that is anti-trans.

What Flo Rida law are you referring to?

The one where you can’t tak about sex to first and second graders. I didn’t get why at the Oscars tbe hosts were chanting “gay, gay!” Someone told me it was making fun of that law, which has nothing to do with gay or trans.

That's not quite right.  Sex ed is already banned K-5 in Florida.  This law bans discussion of gender issues K-3.  It also allows a parent to sue a school district if they think their child was privy to such a discussion. 

You’re right, I just read a little more about it. I thought it was more broad.
I still don’t see the issue, and part of the problem with labeling it the “don’t say gay bill” and celebrities repeating that is it’s spreading misinformation about what it really says. Nothing that I saw said they can’t say “gay.” 

"Classroom instruction by school personnel or third parties on sexual orientation or gender identity may not occur in kindergarten through grade 3 or in a manner that is not age-appropriate or developmentally appropriate for students in accordance with state standards."
Got that from this NPR article.
https://www.npr.org/2022/03/28/1089221657/dont-say-gay-florida-desantis

You just can’t have classroom instruction about sexual orientation or gender identity. And why would you in first grade? You can still talk about civil rights and discrimination, historical figures who were gay, and so on. Just can’t have classroom instruction about what it means to be gay or a lesson about gender identity. And at 7 years old, leave it up to the parents to have that discussion. I don’t see if a kid asks “what is gay” that if a teacher answers “when someone has 2 daddys” or something like that fitting under this law, that’s not classroom instruction around sexual orientation. 

I think giving parents the right to sue a school for what a teacher might say in class is outrageous.  Here in Virginia, our new (R) governor established a hotline for parents to complain about teachers.  It's also outrageous that we are dividing parents from teachers, as if they are the enemies.  

They are enemies. At least some of them. This is (culture) war.

Teachers deserve our respect and admiration.  We salute the troops and what not, but I'd love to hear a pilot on a plane salute teachers for a change.  We entrust them with our children every day, and pay them squat.  It's disgraceful.  They have to put their own money into their classes as well.  To me, being a teacher is a sacrifice.  

mace1229

HughFreakingDillon said:

mace1229 said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

mace1229 said:

mrussel1 said:

mace1229 said:

mrussel1 said:

mace1229 said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

mace1229 said:

Is Biden referring to that Florida law that the Oscars made fun of? I don’t see how that is anti-trans.

What Flo Rida law are you referring to?

The one where you can’t tak about sex to first and second graders. I didn’t get why at the Oscars tbe hosts were chanting “gay, gay!” Someone told me it was making fun of that law, which has nothing to do with gay or trans.

That's not quite right.  Sex ed is already banned K-5 in Florida.  This law bans discussion of gender issues K-3.  It also allows a parent to sue a school district if they think their child was privy to such a discussion. 

You’re right, I just read a little more about it. I thought it was more broad.
I still don’t see the issue, and part of the problem with labeling it the “don’t say gay bill” and celebrities repeating that is it’s spreading misinformation about what it really says. Nothing that I saw said they can’t say “gay.” 

"Classroom instruction by school personnel or third parties on sexual orientation or gender identity may not occur in kindergarten through grade 3 or in a manner that is not age-appropriate or developmentally appropriate for students in accordance with state standards."
Got that from this NPR article.
https://www.npr.org/2022/03/28/1089221657/dont-say-gay-florida-desantis

You just can’t have classroom instruction about sexual orientation or gender identity. And why would you in first grade? You can still talk about civil rights and discrimination, historical figures who were gay, and so on. Just can’t have classroom instruction about what it means to be gay or a lesson about gender identity. And at 7 years old, leave it up to the parents to have that discussion. I don’t see if a kid asks “what is gay” that if a teacher answers “when someone has 2 daddys” or something like that fitting under this law, that’s not classroom instruction around sexual orientation. 

I think giving parents the right to sue a school for what a teacher might say in class is outrageous.  Here in Virginia, our new (R) governor established a hotline for parents to complain about teachers.  It's also outrageous that we are dividing parents from teachers, as if they are the enemies.  

That’s always been the case. Teachers get sued a lot, I’m willing to bet that story that was posted a while ago with the math teacher doing a Native American dance is getting sued. Many school shootings involve lawsuits against the school and sometimes teachers.  So thats not new.
And if there’s a law prohibiting an action, what’s the point of there’s no consequence?
I can’t have a lesson about teen suicide without notifying parents. If I knowingly and willingly ignore that and intentionally design a lesson about teen suicide, should I not face a consequence? That would likely be in the form of a lawsuit from any parents that objected.
I see no difference if there’s a law prohibiting me having a lesson around sexual orientation.
Also the reason I’ve always been union. Even when it wasn’t well represented and actually discouraged by the district, I’m joining that union. Union = lawyers.

if a teacher is going out of their way to provide a lesson that is not part of the developed and approved curriculum, they should be spoken to and possibly disciplined. But merely answering a question of a student who is curious should not be liable. 

should a teacher in the 60's have been prohibited from, and sued for, answering a student's question about interracial relationships?

No, and I don’t read this law as saying that either. It prohibits instruction. It would be hard to prove in a lawsuit a question from a student was designed instruction.

I don't know, as mrussell said, that's all up for interpretation. 

So if this law allows lawsuits against teachers for teaching something the law says they can’t, is there anything preventing parents from suing anyway on other issues?  My understanding is there isn’t. Seems like a non issue to say they can sue, when they already can. I’ve literally been told by admin not to tell kids of color not to say the N word, because that’s their culture. It’s dumb. But there would be nothing preventing that parent from suing. I was told that because there was a rumor that another teacher in district was out on leave when a parent complained that he didn’t allow the N word. So I went to admin and asked, I said if that’s really true we should know. The response was “we can’t comment on that investigation, but if I were you I wouldn’t tell a student of color not to use that word because it might offend the parent.” Just because someone can sue doesn’t mean they will, or that they will win. After almost a year of paid leave the teacher got a big bonus and their job back. Never did know if that was really the reason or not.
I really just don’t see this as turning a teacher answering a question into a successful lawsuit. I mean, not any more that what already exists.

nicknyr15

mrussel1 said:

OnWis97 said:

mrussel1 said:

mace1229 said:

mrussel1 said:

mace1229 said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

mace1229 said:

Is Biden referring to that Florida law that the Oscars made fun of? I don’t see how that is anti-trans.

What Flo Rida law are you referring to?

The one where you can’t tak about sex to first and second graders. I didn’t get why at the Oscars tbe hosts were chanting “gay, gay!” Someone told me it was making fun of that law, which has nothing to do with gay or trans.

That's not quite right.  Sex ed is already banned K-5 in Florida.  This law bans discussion of gender issues K-3.  It also allows a parent to sue a school district if they think their child was privy to such a discussion. 

You’re right, I just read a little more about it. I thought it was more broad.
I still don’t see the issue, and part of the problem with labeling it the “don’t say gay bill” and celebrities repeating that is it’s spreading misinformation about what it really says. Nothing that I saw said they can’t say “gay.” 

"Classroom instruction by school personnel or third parties on sexual orientation or gender identity may not occur in kindergarten through grade 3 or in a manner that is not age-appropriate or developmentally appropriate for students in accordance with state standards."
Got that from this NPR article.
https://www.npr.org/2022/03/28/1089221657/dont-say-gay-florida-desantis

You just can’t have classroom instruction about sexual orientation or gender identity. And why would you in first grade? You can still talk about civil rights and discrimination, historical figures who were gay, and so on. Just can’t have classroom instruction about what it means to be gay or a lesson about gender identity. And at 7 years old, leave it up to the parents to have that discussion. I don’t see if a kid asks “what is gay” that if a teacher answers “when someone has 2 daddys” or something like that fitting under this law, that’s not classroom instruction around sexual orientation. 

I think giving parents the right to sue a school for what a teacher might say in class is outrageous.  Here in Virginia, our new (R) governor established a hotline for parents to complain about teachers.  It's also outrageous that we are dividing parents from teachers, as if they are the enemies.  

They are enemies. At least some of them. This is (culture) war.

Teachers deserve our respect and admiration.  We salute the troops and what not, but I'd love to hear a pilot on a plane salute teachers for a change.  We entrust them with our children every day, and pay them squat.  It's disgraceful.  They have to put their own money into their classes as well.  To me, being a teacher is a sacrifice.  

Facts. 

HughFreakingDillon

well, generally lawsuits aren't very successful if there's no law against what they are suing for. sure, you can draw up a lawsuit on anything a lawyer is willing to let you pay them for, but if there's no law/precedence, then it will likely go nowhere. If there is a law and later, precedence, it makes it much easier to ruin someone's life over having a simple conversation. it's absurd and flies right in the face of "freedom". 

mace1229

HughFreakingDillon said:

well, generally lawsuits aren't very successful if there's no law against what they are suing for. sure, you can draw up a lawsuit on anything a lawyer is willing to let you pay them for, but if there's no law/precedence, then it will likely go nowhere. If there is a law and later, precedence, it makes it much easier to ruin someone's life over having a simple conversation. it's absurd and flies right in the face of "freedom". 

You’re right about not being very successful. We disagree on how this will apply to the classroom though.

Heres my prediction on how this plays out in a couple years. With all the people and celebs calling it the don’t say gay bill it just takes 1 to listen. A teacher is going to use the word “gay” appropriately in the classroom. Someone in the class is going to respond with “oooooh, you can’t say gay, you’re in trouble.” Another kid is going to believe that crap and say something to his parents. Mom is going to see dollar signs and try to cash in. After contacting a bunch of lawyers she finds one that’s desperate and wants the exposure so he takes it on. It makes national news for a week with everyone who said it before saying again that this means you can’t say gay.
Meanwhile the teacher is on paid leave for 6 months, kids are without a teacher. An already struggling school is going to have to pay legal fees. Then when this is over the district is going to pay more fees to the teacher for wrongfully putting him on leave and ruining his career. But by then everyone forgot this story and just remembers the original lawsuit.