He's not all wrong. If the charges don't stick or seem pretty weak and this was an over reach, it'll end up being worse. I don't know if that's the case, I have no idea what the 34 charges are. But with the timing, if they don't have any new information that they didn't have a few years ago and nothing sticks, it could get ugly.
fundamental difference between a few years ago and today.
Weisselberg gave up all his records. DID NOT GET IMMUNITY. Still has charges likely to be filed. Might be more willing to flip now that he has his own nonfuckstick counsel. AND I expect he didnt find Rikers very appealing.
One party in the scheme has been convicted.
reported 34 charges are far more than the handful of payments related to Daniels. Figure some of these are for McDougal as well.
Finally, the GJ is set to break for 2 weeks as officially reported. Easter, Rosh Hosanna and Spring Break...
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
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mickeyrat
up my ass, like Chadwick was up his Posts: 35,884
Donald Trump indicted; expected to surrender early next week
By MICHAEL R. SISAK, ERIC TUCKER and COLLEEN LONG
Today
NEW YORK (AP) — Donald Trump has been indicted by a Manhattan grand jury, a historic reckoning after years of investigations into his personal, political and business dealings and an abrupt jolt to his bid to retake the White House.
The exact nature of the charges was unclear Friday because the indictment remained under seal, but they stem from payments made during the 2016 presidential campaign to silence claims of an extramarital sexual encounter. Prosecutors said they were working to coordinate Trump’s surrender, which could happen early next week. They did not say whether they intended to seek prison time in the event of a conviction, a development that wouldn’t prevent Trump from seeking and assuming the presidency.
The indictment, the first against a former U.S. president, injects a local district attorney’s office into the heart of a national presidential race and ushers in criminal proceedings in a city that the ex-president for decades called home. Arriving at a time of deep political divisions, the charges are likely to reinforce rather than reshape dueling perspectives of those who see accountability as long overdue and those who, like Trump, feel the Republican is being targeted for political purposes by a Democratic prosecutor.
Trump, who has denied any wrongdoing and has repeatedly assailed the investigation, called the indictment “political persecution” and predicted it would damage Democrats in 2024. In a statement confirming the charges, defense lawyers Susan Necheles and Joseph Tacopina said Trump “did not commit any crime. We will vigorously fight this political prosecution in court.”
A spokesman for the Manhattan district attorney’s office confirmed the indictment and said prosecutors had reached out to Trump’s defense team to coordinate a surrender. Tacopina said Trump is “likely” to turn himself in on Tuesday.
“We’re working out those logistics right now,” Tacopina said on NBC's “Today” show Friday morning. “He's not gonna hole up in Mar-a-Lago.”
Tacopina insisted that Trump would not take a plea deal: “There's no crime.”
Trump was asked to surrender Friday but his lawyers said the Secret Service needed additional time as they made security preparations, two people familiar with the matter told The Associated Press. The people spoke on condition of anonymity because they couldn’t publicly discuss security details.
The case centers on well-chronicled allegations from a period in 2016 when Trump’s celebrity past collided with his political ambitions. Prosecutors for months scrutinized money paid to porn actor Stormy Daniels and former Playboy model Karen McDougal, whom he feared would go public with claims that they had extramarital sexual encounters with him.
The timing of the indictment appeared to come as a surprise to Trump campaign officials following news reports that criminal charges were likely weeks away. The former president was at Mar-a-Lago, his Florida estate, on Thursday and filmed an interview with a conservative commentator earlier in the day.
For a man whose presidency was defined by one obliterated norm after another, the indictment sets up yet another never-before-seen spectacle — a former president having his fingerprints and mug shot taken, and then facing arraignment. For security reasons, his booking is expected to be carefully choreographed to avoid crowds inside or outside the courthouse.
The prosecution also means that Trump will have to simultaneously fight for his freedom and political future, while also fending off potentially more perilous legal threats, including investigations into attempts by him and his allies to undo the 2020 presidential election as well as into the hoarding of hundreds of classified documents.
In fact, New York was until recently seen as an unlikely contender to be the first place to prosecute Trump, who continues to face long-running investigations in Atlanta and Washington that could also result in charges. Unlike those inquiries, the Manhattan case concerns allegations against Trump that occurred before he became president and are unrelated to his much-publicized efforts to overturn the election.
The indictment comes as Trump seeks to reassert control of the Republican Party and stave off a slew of one-time allies who may threaten his bid for the presidential nomination. An expected leading rival in the race, Florida Gov. Ron DeSantis, called the indictment “un-American” in a statement Thursday night that pointedly did not mention Trump’s name.
In bringing the charges, Bragg, the Manhattan district attorney, is embracing an unusual case that was investigated by two previous sets of prosecutors, both of which declined to take the politically explosive step of seeking Trump’s indictment. The case may also turn in part on the testimony of a key witness, Trump’s former lawyer and fixer Michael Cohen, who pleaded guilty to federal charges arising from the hush money payments, including making false statements.
The probe’s fate seemed uncertain until word got out in early March that Bragg had invited Trump to testify before a grand jury, a signal that prosecutors were close to bringing charges.
Trump’s attorneys declined the invitation, but a lawyer closely allied with the former president briefly testified in an effort to undercut Cohen’s credibility.
Trump himself raised anticipation that he would be indicted soon, issuing a statement earlier this month in which he predicted an imminent arrest and called for protests. He did not repeat that call in a fresh statement Thursday, but the New York Police Department told its 36,000 officers to be fully mobilized and ready to respond to any potential protests or unrest.
Late in the 2016 presidential campaign, Cohen paid Daniels $130,000 to keep her silent about what she says was a sexual encounter with Trump a decade earlier after they met at a celebrity golf tournament.
Cohen was then reimbursed by Trump’s company, the Trump Organization, which also rewarded the lawyer with bonuses and extra payments logged internally as legal expenses. Over several months, Cohen said, the company paid him $420,000.
Earlier in 2016, Cohen also arranged for the publisher of the supermarket tabloid the National Enquirer to pay McDougal $150,000 to squelch her story of a Trump affair in a journalistically dubious practice known as “catch-and-kill.”
The payments to the women were intended to buy secrecy, but they backfired almost immediately as details of the arrangements leaked to the news media.
Federal prosecutors in New York ultimately charged Cohen in 2018 with violating federal campaign finance laws, arguing that the payments amounted to impermissible help to Trump’s presidential campaign. Cohen pleaded guilty to those charges and unrelated tax evasion counts and served time in federal prison.
Trump was implicated in court filings as having knowledge of the arrangements — obliquely referred to in charging documents as “Individual 1” — but U.S. prosecutors at the time balked at bringing charges against him. The Justice Department has a longtime policy against indicting a sitting president in federal court.
Bragg’s predecessor as district attorney, Cyrus Vance Jr., then took up the investigation in 2019. While that probe initially focused on the hush money payments, Vance’s prosecutors moved on to other matters, including an examination of Trump’s business dealings and tax strategies.
Vance ultimately charged the Trump Organization and its chief financial officer with tax fraud related to fringe benefits paid to some of the company’s top executives.
The hush money matter became known around the D.A.’s office as the “zombie case,” with prosecutors revisiting it periodically but never opting to bring charges.
Bragg saw it differently. After the Trump Organization was convicted on the tax fraud charges in December, he brought fresh eyes to the well-worn case, hiring longtime white-collar prosecutor Matthew Colangelo to oversee the probe and convening a new grand jury.
Cohen became a key witness, meeting with prosecutors nearly two-dozen times, turning over emails, recordings and other evidence and testifying before the grand jury.
Trump has long decried the Manhattan investigation as “the greatest witch hunt in history.” He has also lashed out at Bragg, calling the prosecutor, who is Black, racist against white people.
The criminal charges in New York are the latest salvo in a profound schism between Trump and his hometown — a reckoning for a one-time favorite son who grew rich and famous building skyscrapers, hobnobbing with celebrities and gracing the pages of the city’s gossip press.
Trump, who famously riffed in 2016 that he “could stand in the middle of Fifth Avenue and shoot somebody” and “wouldn’t lose voters,” now faces a threat to his liberty in a borough where more than 75% of voters — many of them potential jurors — went against him in the last election.
_____
Tucker and Long reported from Washington. Associated Press writers Bobby Caina Calvan, Jill Colvin and Jennifer Peltz contributed to this report.
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
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The Juggler
Behind that bush over there. Posts: 47,315
He's not all wrong. If the charges don't stick or seem pretty weak and this was an over reach, it'll end up being worse. I don't know if that's the case, I have no idea what the 34 charges are. But with the timing, if they don't have any new information that they didn't have a few years ago and nothing sticks, it could get ugly.
It is the first of possibly 4 indictments coming down the pipe. I've seen a lot of reports that this one could be the least of his worries too.
Also, people made the same predictions JB made after the other investigations/impeachments that went on during his presidency. All of those predictions were wrong.
I would suspect that being indicted multiple times only riles up the same 30-40% of people that would vote for him no matter up. Republicans should've convicted him a couple years ago when they had the chance. They keep making the same mistake over and over and over again.
Whether the charges stick or not, I don't see this resonating very well with people who haven't been drooling for Trump to be held accountable.
Unless Merrick Garland gets off of his worthless ass, anything Trump goes through in the courts will probably shift public opinion in his favor. People will see this simply as giving a bunch of money to someone he cheated with; not admirable, but not important, either.
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Whether the charges stick or not, I don't see this resonating very well with people who haven't been drooling for Trump to be held accountable.
Unless Merrick Garland gets off of his worthless ass, anything Trump goes through in the courts will probably shift public opinion in his favor. People will see this simply as giving a bunch of money to someone he cheated with; not admirable, but not important, either.
To be determined but I disagree.
We've already seen the GOP governor of Alabama distance himself. The more these indictments pile up it will be harder for anyone with merit to defend him.
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The Juggler
Behind that bush over there. Posts: 47,315
Whether the charges stick or not, I don't see this resonating very well with people who haven't been drooling for Trump to be held accountable.
Unless Merrick Garland gets off of his worthless ass, anything Trump goes through in the courts will probably shift public opinion in his favor. People will see this simply as giving a bunch of money to someone he cheated with; not admirable, but not important, either.
There is already polling that shows almost 60% of people believe he did something wrong here. That is even before the charges are made public.
Other side of the coin shows a lot of independents think this is politically motivated.
But there is one simple thing that I think will resonate will people, once they think about it: Trump's own lawyer has already spent an entire year in jail for this....and he was following Trump's own orders...which were illegal. That is something very tangible for people to digest.
Whether the charges stick or not, I don't see this resonating very well with people who haven't been drooling for Trump to be held accountable.
Unless Merrick Garland gets off of his worthless ass, anything Trump goes through in the courts will probably shift public opinion in his favor. People will see this simply as giving a bunch of money to someone he cheated with; not admirable, but not important, either.
There is already polling that shows almost 60% of people believe he did something wrong here. That is even before the charges are made public.
Other side of the coin shows a lot of independents think this is politically motivated.
But there is one simple thing that I think will resonate will people, once they think about it: Trump's own lawyer has already spent an entire year in jail for this....and he was following Trump's own orders...which were illegal. That is something very tangible for people to digest.
If this was a “witch hunt,” where was POOTWH in defending Cohen and why did he throw him under the bus? And, no pardon? You have to be questioning your own loyalty to POOTWH at this point. But you know, spells are hard to break.
Its hard to think all 34 charges relate to the Stormy payment. My understanding is hush money isn't illegal, its actually done all the time. But its where that money came from and how it was paid. You'd probably have to do a lot of clever writing to come up with 34 charges related to that. And the fact its sealed, I think I heard Trump and his lawyers don't even know all the charges. Either there's something big here, or its going to backfire. We'll know soon enough.
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The Juggler
Behind that bush over there. Posts: 47,315
2022
Hahaha....yes, by all means, Marjorie. Please insert yourself into this mess as much as is humanly possible. I love it.
It's been ugly for several years now; the finger wagging that this is going to get [uglier] if the charges don't stick is tiring. The fact is, no one knows what's going to happen, this is uncharted territory for the nation.
If deplorable people want to act more deplorable because law enforcement agencies are doing their job, that's on them.
He's not all wrong. If the charges don't stick or seem pretty weak and this was an over reach, it'll end up being worse. I don't know if that's the case, I have no idea what the 34 charges are. But with the timing, if they don't have any new information that they didn't have a few years ago and nothing sticks, it could get ugly.
Except it doesn’t matter how solid the case is with republicans. Their response will be the same because they need their victim orientation to be confirmed. It will range from “this is a political witch hunt” to “I’ve bought two ARs and I’m going to _______”
He's not all wrong. If the charges don't stick or seem pretty weak and this was an over reach, it'll end up being worse. I don't know if that's the case, I have no idea what the 34 charges are. But with the timing, if they don't have any new information that they didn't have a few years ago and nothing sticks, it could get ugly.
Except it doesn’t matter how solid the case is with republicans. Their response will be the same because they need their victim orientation to be confirmed. It will range from “this is a political witch hunt” to “I’ve bought two ARs and I’m going to _______”
Correct. What more evidence do you need than Jordan, Comer and McCarthy demanding Bragg come in and testify before Trump was even indicted and, obviously, before knowing what the charges are?
There was also a report that said these congress people are still in constant contact with Trump and his aides regarding all their bullshit investigations. Seems like a rigged system to me. lol
It's been ugly for several years now; the finger wagging that this is going to get [uglier] if the charges don't stick is tiring. The fact is, no one knows what's going to happen, this is uncharted territory for the nation.
If deplorable people want to act more deplorable because law enforcement agencies are doing their job, that's on them.
It's been like 12 hours, how are you that tired of its going to get uglier already? But you're right on a few things. It's been ugly a while, and no one knows what's going to happen. I still predict the reaction is going to be even worse if there isn't a smoking gun and something more than hush money. There's probably going to be protests this weekend either way, just how bad will depend on what they know and have.
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The Juggler
Behind that bush over there. Posts: 47,315
It's been ugly for several years now; the finger wagging that this is going to get [uglier] if the charges don't stick is tiring. The fact is, no one knows what's going to happen, this is uncharted territory for the nation.
If deplorable people want to act more deplorable because law enforcement agencies are doing their job, that's on them.
It's been like 12 hours, how are you that tired of its going to get uglier already? But you're right on a few things. It's been ugly a while, and no one knows what's going to happen. I still predict the reaction is going to be even worse if there isn't a smoking gun and something more than hush money. There's probably going to be protests this weekend either way, just how bad will depend on what they know and have.
Smoking gun? Mace, he's already indicted. His lawyer has already spent a year in jail. We are well past the point of smoking guns here.
And, again, there are more indictments in his short term future. Buckle up.
It's been ugly for several years now; the finger wagging that this is going to get [uglier] if the charges don't stick is tiring. The fact is, no one knows what's going to happen, this is uncharted territory for the nation.
If deplorable people want to act more deplorable because law enforcement agencies are doing their job, that's on them.
It's been like 12 hours, how are you that tired of its going to get uglier already? But you're right on a few things. It's been ugly a while, and no one knows what's going to happen. I still predict the reaction is going to be even worse if there isn't a smoking gun and something more than hush money. There's probably going to be protests this weekend either way, just how bad will depend on what they know and have.
Smoking gun? Mace, he's already indicted. His lawyer has already spent a year in jail. We are well past the point of smoking guns here.
And, again, there are more indictments in his short term future. Buckle up.
A few things I want to address.
I think those who said it wouldn't have gotten this far unless its a strong case are right.
I only made my first comment because I don't understand the response JB got when he said he hopes this sticks because if it doesn't, it will get ugly(ier). He's right. Those who breached the capitol because they thought the election was stolen, what will they do if they think he was wrongfully arrested? So why laugh at him for that comment?
But I do have some questions. And I'm not asking because I think none of this sticks and is a witch hunt. I want to know. What is the smoking gun that has been released to the public? Here's my understanding of what we know. Hush money itself isn't illegal. How it is obtained can be. Trump and his attorneys had way more than enough money to pay off the $130,000 to Stormy. Doesn't Trump just have to argue he wanted Stormy quiet for personal reasons, he's married with kids, and not political? Then there's no campaign tie in. Cohen actually paid it her himself, not with any campaign funds. I've seen conflicting stories if Trump paid Cohen back or not, I saw some where it was included in his monthly billing fees for a while, I saw some where Cohen denies being paid back. Either way, I don't understand how that is a violation on Trump.
So by smoking gun I mean what do we know now that makes that untrue?
I know Cohen spent time in jail. Was every charge he faced connected with Stormy and/or Trump? I thought he was facing a bunch of charges, some were connected and some were not, and he just took a plea for it all? If that's the case, that doesn't say much.
It's been ugly for several years now; the finger wagging that this is going to get [uglier] if the charges don't stick is tiring. The fact is, no one knows what's going to happen, this is uncharted territory for the nation.
If deplorable people want to act more deplorable because law enforcement agencies are doing their job, that's on them.
It's been like 12 hours, how are you that tired of its going to get uglier already? But you're right on a few things. It's been ugly a while, and no one knows what's going to happen. I still predict the reaction is going to be even worse if there isn't a smoking gun and something more than hush money. There's probably going to be protests this weekend either way, just how bad will depend on what they know and have.
We've been hearing for weeks that it's going to get ugly if he gets indicted. Well, here we are. He's been indicted.
Is the ugliness scheduled for this weekend? Let me know so I can have some popcorn ready. I'm not holding my breath the turnout is going to be all that robust, but maybe I'll be proven wrong. Maybe MTG will rally the right and strike the fear of God into the NYDA, but I'm not betting on it. After 1/6, I don't think too many people are going to be putting their freedom on the line for someone who in the end is going to abandon them. I'm sure there's some people still willing to do it, but I would guess not nearly as many as there were on 1/5/21.
Regarding the hand wringing over the impending ugliness if the charges don't stick... It will probably be ugly if the charges don't stick, but it's also probably going to be ugly if the charges DO stick. It's going to be ugly either way.
In the end, none of us know what's going to happen here.
It's been ugly for several years now; the finger wagging that this is going to get [uglier] if the charges don't stick is tiring. The fact is, no one knows what's going to happen, this is uncharted territory for the nation.
If deplorable people want to act more deplorable because law enforcement agencies are doing their job, that's on them.
It's been like 12 hours, how are you that tired of its going to get uglier already? But you're right on a few things. It's been ugly a while, and no one knows what's going to happen. I still predict the reaction is going to be even worse if there isn't a smoking gun and something more than hush money. There's probably going to be protests this weekend either way, just how bad will depend on what they know and have.
We've been hearing for weeks that it's going to get ugly if he gets indicted. Well, here we are. He's been indicted.
Is the ugliness scheduled for this weekend? Let me know so I can have some popcorn ready. I'm not holding my breath the turnout is going to be all that robust, but maybe I'll be proven wrong. Maybe MTG will rally the right and strike the fear of God into the NYDA, but I'm not betting on it. After 1/6, I don't think too many people are going to be putting their freedom on the line for someone who in the end is going to abandon them. I'm sure there's some people still willing to do it, but I would guess not nearly as many as there were on 1/5/21.
Regarding the hand wringing over the impending ugliness if the charges don't stick... It will probably be ugly if the charges don't stick, but it's also probably going to be ugly if the charges DO stick. It's going to be ugly either way.
In the end, none of us know what's going to happen here.
Like Juggler said, Buckle Up.
Have you seen the cost of a hotel room in Manhattan on a business week night? And who wants to drive in from Newark or Camden and pay to park, or find parking with alternate day rules in effect?
I look forward to the “tourist visits” and antiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiifa protests.
Its hard to think all 34 charges relate to the Stormy payment. My understanding is hush money isn't illegal, its actually done all the time. But its where that money came from and how it was paid. You'd probably have to do a lot of clever writing to come up with 34 charges related to that. And the fact its sealed, I think I heard Trump and his lawyers don't even know all the charges. Either there's something big here, or its going to backfire. We'll know soon enough.
Its hard to think all 34 charges relate to the Stormy payment. My understanding is hush money isn't illegal, its actually done all the time. But its where that money came from and how it was paid. You'd probably have to do a lot of clever writing to come up with 34 charges related to that. And the fact its sealed, I think I heard Trump and his lawyers don't even know all the charges. Either there's something big here, or its going to backfire. We'll know soon enough.
Sounds like someone with experience.
You've never heard of an NDA? You don't have to have experience to know they are common with wealthy people. I first learned about it when I was like 8 and Michael Jackson paid off that kid to drop the charges and not talk about it.
Its hard to think all 34 charges relate to the Stormy payment. My understanding is hush money isn't illegal, its actually done all the time. But its where that money came from and how it was paid. You'd probably have to do a lot of clever writing to come up with 34 charges related to that. And the fact its sealed, I think I heard Trump and his lawyers don't even know all the charges. Either there's something big here, or its going to backfire. We'll know soon enough.
Sounds like someone with experience.
You've never heard of an NDA? You don't have to have experience to know they are common with wealthy people. I first learned about it when I was like 8 and Michael Jackson paid off that kid to drop the charges and not talk about it.
An NDA is not the same as “hush money.” Don’t confuse the two. How many people do you know that have paid “hush money,” being done all the time, even among wealthy people? You’ve listed one example. And last time I checked, MJ never ran for POTUS.
And as far as smoking guns go, do you mean like Hunter’s laptop?
Its hard to think all 34 charges relate to the Stormy payment. My understanding is hush money isn't illegal, its actually done all the time. But its where that money came from and how it was paid. You'd probably have to do a lot of clever writing to come up with 34 charges related to that. And the fact its sealed, I think I heard Trump and his lawyers don't even know all the charges. Either there's something big here, or its going to backfire. We'll know soon enough.
Sounds like someone with experience.
You've never heard of an NDA? You don't have to have experience to know they are common with wealthy people. I first learned about it when I was like 8 and Michael Jackson paid off that kid to drop the charges and not talk about it.
An NDA is not the same as “hush money.” Don’t confuse the two. How many people do you know that have paid “hush money,” being done all the time, even among wealthy people? You’ve listed one example.
And as far as smoking guns go, do you mean like Hunter’s laptop?
How is hush money not a form of an NDA? I pay you to not tell your story, and you sign here agreeing to this. Like I said, I first learned about it when Michael Jackson did it 30 years ago. Its common enough to where I've know what it is for a long time. The purpose of hush money is that we won't know. If I knew all of the examples, it would be pointless to pay out, wouldn't it?
A quick google search listed Letterman, Betty Davis, tiger woods, Celine dion, tupoc, bill Cosby as paying hush money. I stopped reading the search results after that. I'm surprised anyone thinks this I rare and needs examples to know its done.
Its hard to think all 34 charges relate to the Stormy payment. My understanding is hush money isn't illegal, its actually done all the time. But its where that money came from and how it was paid. You'd probably have to do a lot of clever writing to come up with 34 charges related to that. And the fact its sealed, I think I heard Trump and his lawyers don't even know all the charges. Either there's something big here, or its going to backfire. We'll know soon enough.
Sounds like someone with experience.
You've never heard of an NDA? You don't have to have experience to know they are common with wealthy people. I first learned about it when I was like 8 and Michael Jackson paid off that kid to drop the charges and not talk about it.
An NDA is not the same as “hush money.” Don’t confuse the two. How many people do you know that have paid “hush money,” being done all the time, even among wealthy people? You’ve listed one example.
And as far as smoking guns go, do you mean like Hunter’s laptop?
How is hush money not a form of an NDA? I pay you to not tell your story, and you sign here agreeing to this. Like I said, I first learned about it when Michael Jackson did it 30 years ago. Its common enough to where I've know what it is for a long time.
Geeze, maybe in the context of non-compete and non-disclosures in the legitimate business world an NDA is common. In fact, its even becoming more common, like with high end hair salon employees and chefs. Paying off porn stars to not discuss your liaison as a candidate for POTUS is not "normal" or "common." And your example of it being "common" is not, particularly in the context of POTUS candidates.
"Hush money" is not an NDA. Remember, you started by saying, "hush money isn't illegal, its actually done all the time." You didn't say, "NDAs are common, they're done all the time."
Is what I said wrong? Is hush money illegal? I didn't know I needed to talk about business NDAs as well. I didn't say toilet paper is common and everyone uses it. Was I supposed to?
Its hard to think all 34 charges relate to the Stormy payment. My understanding is hush money isn't illegal, its actually done all the time. But its where that money came from and how it was paid. You'd probably have to do a lot of clever writing to come up with 34 charges related to that. And the fact its sealed, I think I heard Trump and his lawyers don't even know all the charges. Either there's something big here, or its going to backfire. We'll know soon enough.
Sounds like someone with experience.
You've never heard of an NDA? You don't have to have experience to know they are common with wealthy people. I first learned about it when I was like 8 and Michael Jackson paid off that kid to drop the charges and not talk about it.
An NDA is not the same as “hush money.” Don’t confuse the two. How many people do you know that have paid “hush money,” being done all the time, even among wealthy people? You’ve listed one example. And last time I checked, MJ never ran for POTUS.
And as far as smoking guns go, do you mean like Hunter’s laptop?
Can you show me one example where I said the laptop was a smoking gun, or even a big deal? I need to know if my account was hacked.
Is what I said wrong? Is hush money illegal? I didn't know I needed to talk about business NDAs as well. I didn't say toilet paper is common and everyone uses it. Was I supposed to?
Is it common for NDAs to be signed 10 years after you started employment and nothing else has changed? Stop trying to normalize POOTWH's behavior. If you meant to say NDAs, say NDAs. Again, "hush money" is not the same as an NDA, especially 10 years after the fact.
What does the legality of "hush money" have to do with it? But to answer your question, in some circumstances, yes, yes it very much is. Are NDAs illegal?
It's been ugly for several years now; the finger wagging that this is going to get [uglier] if the charges don't stick is tiring. The fact is, no one knows what's going to happen, this is uncharted territory for the nation.
If deplorable people want to act more deplorable because law enforcement agencies are doing their job, that's on them.
It's been like 12 hours, how are you that tired of its going to get uglier already? But you're right on a few things. It's been ugly a while, and no one knows what's going to happen. I still predict the reaction is going to be even worse if there isn't a smoking gun and something more than hush money. There's probably going to be protests this weekend either way, just how bad will depend on what they know and have.
Smoking gun? Mace, he's already indicted. His lawyer has already spent a year in jail. We are well past the point of smoking guns here.
And, again, there are more indictments in his short term future. Buckle up.
A few things I want to address.
I think those who said it wouldn't have gotten this far unless its a strong case are right.
I only made my first comment because I don't understand the response JB got when he said he hopes this sticks because if it doesn't, it will get ugly(ier). He's right. Those who breached the capitol because they thought the election was stolen, what will they do if they think he was wrongfully arrested? So why laugh at him for that comment?
But I do have some questions. And I'm not asking because I think none of this sticks and is a witch hunt. I want to know. What is the smoking gun that has been released to the public? Here's my understanding of what we know. Hush money itself isn't illegal. How it is obtained can be. Trump and his attorneys had way more than enough money to pay off the $130,000 to Stormy. Doesn't Trump just have to argue he wanted Stormy quiet for personal reasons, he's married with kids, and not political? Then there's no campaign tie in. Cohen actually paid it her himself, not with any campaign funds. I've seen conflicting stories if Trump paid Cohen back or not, I saw some where it was included in his monthly billing fees for a while, I saw some where Cohen denies being paid back. Either way, I don't understand how that is a violation on Trump.
So by smoking gun I mean what do we know now that makes that untrue?
I know Cohen spent time in jail. Was every charge he faced connected with Stormy and/or Trump? I thought he was facing a bunch of charges, some were connected and some were not, and he just took a plea for it all? If that's the case, that doesn't say much.
The issue isn't just the hush money. I believe the issue is that it was paid to her to benefit his campaign but he did not report it as a campaign expense. So, basically, he hid that from the public and that is illegal. They will try and argue that it was only personal and not campaign related.....but she was paid off right before the election and shortly after the Access Hollywood tapes had come out. I think the timing makes this pretty obvious. Given how close that election was, you can easily make the argument that he would never have become president had the public known about this.
Cohn went to jail for a few reasons, chief among them were campaign finance charges stemming from this Stormy Daniels case. He admitted he paid her off at the direction of Donald Trump. How that doesn't say much doesn't make a whole lot of sense. He went to jail, in large part, because he followed illegal orders given to him by the former president. Why should only Cohen pay a price for that?
Its hard to think all 34 charges relate to the Stormy payment. My understanding is hush money isn't illegal, its actually done all the time. But its where that money came from and how it was paid. You'd probably have to do a lot of clever writing to come up with 34 charges related to that. And the fact its sealed, I think I heard Trump and his lawyers don't even know all the charges. Either there's something big here, or its going to backfire. We'll know soon enough.
Sounds like someone with experience.
You've never heard of an NDA? You don't have to have experience to know they are common with wealthy people. I first learned about it when I was like 8 and Michael Jackson paid off that kid to drop the charges and not talk about it.
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NEW YORK (AP) — Donald Trump has been indicted by a Manhattan grand jury, a historic reckoning after years of investigations into his personal, political and business dealings and an abrupt jolt to his bid to retake the White House.
The exact nature of the charges was unclear Friday because the indictment remained under seal, but they stem from payments made during the 2016 presidential campaign to silence claims of an extramarital sexual encounter. Prosecutors said they were working to coordinate Trump’s surrender, which could happen early next week. They did not say whether they intended to seek prison time in the event of a conviction, a development that wouldn’t prevent Trump from seeking and assuming the presidency.
The indictment, the first against a former U.S. president, injects a local district attorney’s office into the heart of a national presidential race and ushers in criminal proceedings in a city that the ex-president for decades called home. Arriving at a time of deep political divisions, the charges are likely to reinforce rather than reshape dueling perspectives of those who see accountability as long overdue and those who, like Trump, feel the Republican is being targeted for political purposes by a Democratic prosecutor.
Trump, who has denied any wrongdoing and has repeatedly assailed the investigation, called the indictment “political persecution” and predicted it would damage Democrats in 2024. In a statement confirming the charges, defense lawyers Susan Necheles and Joseph Tacopina said Trump “did not commit any crime. We will vigorously fight this political prosecution in court.”
A spokesman for the Manhattan district attorney’s office confirmed the indictment and said prosecutors had reached out to Trump’s defense team to coordinate a surrender. Tacopina said Trump is “likely” to turn himself in on Tuesday.
“We’re working out those logistics right now,” Tacopina said on NBC's “Today” show Friday morning. “He's not gonna hole up in Mar-a-Lago.”
Tacopina insisted that Trump would not take a plea deal: “There's no crime.”
Trump was asked to surrender Friday but his lawyers said the Secret Service needed additional time as they made security preparations, two people familiar with the matter told The Associated Press. The people spoke on condition of anonymity because they couldn’t publicly discuss security details.
District Attorney Alvin Bragg left his office Thursday evening without commenting.
The case centers on well-chronicled allegations from a period in 2016 when Trump’s celebrity past collided with his political ambitions. Prosecutors for months scrutinized money paid to porn actor Stormy Daniels and former Playboy model Karen McDougal, whom he feared would go public with claims that they had extramarital sexual encounters with him.
The timing of the indictment appeared to come as a surprise to Trump campaign officials following news reports that criminal charges were likely weeks away. The former president was at Mar-a-Lago, his Florida estate, on Thursday and filmed an interview with a conservative commentator earlier in the day.
For a man whose presidency was defined by one obliterated norm after another, the indictment sets up yet another never-before-seen spectacle — a former president having his fingerprints and mug shot taken, and then facing arraignment. For security reasons, his booking is expected to be carefully choreographed to avoid crowds inside or outside the courthouse.
The prosecution also means that Trump will have to simultaneously fight for his freedom and political future, while also fending off potentially more perilous legal threats, including investigations into attempts by him and his allies to undo the 2020 presidential election as well as into the hoarding of hundreds of classified documents.
In fact, New York was until recently seen as an unlikely contender to be the first place to prosecute Trump, who continues to face long-running investigations in Atlanta and Washington that could also result in charges. Unlike those inquiries, the Manhattan case concerns allegations against Trump that occurred before he became president and are unrelated to his much-publicized efforts to overturn the election.
The indictment comes as Trump seeks to reassert control of the Republican Party and stave off a slew of one-time allies who may threaten his bid for the presidential nomination. An expected leading rival in the race, Florida Gov. Ron DeSantis, called the indictment “un-American” in a statement Thursday night that pointedly did not mention Trump’s name.
In bringing the charges, Bragg, the Manhattan district attorney, is embracing an unusual case that was investigated by two previous sets of prosecutors, both of which declined to take the politically explosive step of seeking Trump’s indictment. The case may also turn in part on the testimony of a key witness, Trump’s former lawyer and fixer Michael Cohen, who pleaded guilty to federal charges arising from the hush money payments, including making false statements.
The probe’s fate seemed uncertain until word got out in early March that Bragg had invited Trump to testify before a grand jury, a signal that prosecutors were close to bringing charges.
Trump’s attorneys declined the invitation, but a lawyer closely allied with the former president briefly testified in an effort to undercut Cohen’s credibility.
Trump himself raised anticipation that he would be indicted soon, issuing a statement earlier this month in which he predicted an imminent arrest and called for protests. He did not repeat that call in a fresh statement Thursday, but the New York Police Department told its 36,000 officers to be fully mobilized and ready to respond to any potential protests or unrest.
Late in the 2016 presidential campaign, Cohen paid Daniels $130,000 to keep her silent about what she says was a sexual encounter with Trump a decade earlier after they met at a celebrity golf tournament.
Cohen was then reimbursed by Trump’s company, the Trump Organization, which also rewarded the lawyer with bonuses and extra payments logged internally as legal expenses. Over several months, Cohen said, the company paid him $420,000.
Earlier in 2016, Cohen also arranged for the publisher of the supermarket tabloid the National Enquirer to pay McDougal $150,000 to squelch her story of a Trump affair in a journalistically dubious practice known as “catch-and-kill.”
The payments to the women were intended to buy secrecy, but they backfired almost immediately as details of the arrangements leaked to the news media.
Federal prosecutors in New York ultimately charged Cohen in 2018 with violating federal campaign finance laws, arguing that the payments amounted to impermissible help to Trump’s presidential campaign. Cohen pleaded guilty to those charges and unrelated tax evasion counts and served time in federal prison.
Trump was implicated in court filings as having knowledge of the arrangements — obliquely referred to in charging documents as “Individual 1” — but U.S. prosecutors at the time balked at bringing charges against him. The Justice Department has a longtime policy against indicting a sitting president in federal court.
Bragg’s predecessor as district attorney, Cyrus Vance Jr., then took up the investigation in 2019. While that probe initially focused on the hush money payments, Vance’s prosecutors moved on to other matters, including an examination of Trump’s business dealings and tax strategies.
Vance ultimately charged the Trump Organization and its chief financial officer with tax fraud related to fringe benefits paid to some of the company’s top executives.
The hush money matter became known around the D.A.’s office as the “zombie case,” with prosecutors revisiting it periodically but never opting to bring charges.
Bragg saw it differently. After the Trump Organization was convicted on the tax fraud charges in December, he brought fresh eyes to the well-worn case, hiring longtime white-collar prosecutor Matthew Colangelo to oversee the probe and convening a new grand jury.
Cohen became a key witness, meeting with prosecutors nearly two-dozen times, turning over emails, recordings and other evidence and testifying before the grand jury.
Trump has long decried the Manhattan investigation as “the greatest witch hunt in history.” He has also lashed out at Bragg, calling the prosecutor, who is Black, racist against white people.
The criminal charges in New York are the latest salvo in a profound schism between Trump and his hometown — a reckoning for a one-time favorite son who grew rich and famous building skyscrapers, hobnobbing with celebrities and gracing the pages of the city’s gossip press.
Trump, who famously riffed in 2016 that he “could stand in the middle of Fifth Avenue and shoot somebody” and “wouldn’t lose voters,” now faces a threat to his liberty in a borough where more than 75% of voters — many of them potential jurors — went against him in the last election.
_____
Tucker and Long reported from Washington. Associated Press writers Bobby Caina Calvan, Jill Colvin and Jennifer Peltz contributed to this report.
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
Also, people made the same predictions JB made after the other investigations/impeachments that went on during his presidency. All of those predictions were wrong.
I would suspect that being indicted multiple times only riles up the same 30-40% of people that would vote for him no matter up. Republicans should've convicted him a couple years ago when they had the chance. They keep making the same mistake over and over and over again.
Unless Merrick Garland gets off of his worthless ass, anything Trump goes through in the courts will probably shift public opinion in his favor. People will see this simply as giving a bunch of money to someone he cheated with; not admirable, but not important, either.
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We've already seen the GOP governor of Alabama distance himself. The more these indictments pile up it will be harder for anyone with merit to defend him.
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Other side of the coin shows a lot of independents think this is politically motivated.
But there is one simple thing that I think will resonate will people, once they think about it: Trump's own lawyer has already spent an entire year in jail for this....and he was following Trump's own orders...which were illegal. That is something very tangible for people to digest.
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Either there's something big here, or its going to backfire. We'll know soon enough.
It's been ugly for several years now; the finger wagging that this is going to get [uglier] if the charges don't stick is tiring. The fact is, no one knows what's going to happen, this is uncharted territory for the nation.
If deplorable people want to act more deplorable because law enforcement agencies are doing their job, that's on them.
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There was also a report that said these congress people are still in constant contact with Trump and his aides regarding all their bullshit investigations. Seems like a rigged system to me. lol
But you're right on a few things. It's been ugly a while, and no one knows what's going to happen. I still predict the reaction is going to be even worse if there isn't a smoking gun and something more than hush money. There's probably going to be protests this weekend either way, just how bad will depend on what they know and have.
And, again, there are more indictments in his short term future. Buckle up.
I think those who said it wouldn't have gotten this far unless its a strong case are right.
I only made my first comment because I don't understand the response JB got when he said he hopes this sticks because if it doesn't, it will get ugly(ier). He's right. Those who breached the capitol because they thought the election was stolen, what will they do if they think he was wrongfully arrested? So why laugh at him for that comment?
But I do have some questions. And I'm not asking because I think none of this sticks and is a witch hunt. I want to know.
What is the smoking gun that has been released to the public? Here's my understanding of what we know.
Hush money itself isn't illegal. How it is obtained can be. Trump and his attorneys had way more than enough money to pay off the $130,000 to Stormy. Doesn't Trump just have to argue he wanted Stormy quiet for personal reasons, he's married with kids, and not political? Then there's no campaign tie in. Cohen actually paid it her himself, not with any campaign funds.
I've seen conflicting stories if Trump paid Cohen back or not, I saw some where it was included in his monthly billing fees for a while, I saw some where Cohen denies being paid back. Either way, I don't understand how that is a violation on Trump.
So by smoking gun I mean what do we know now that makes that untrue?
I know Cohen spent time in jail. Was every charge he faced connected with Stormy and/or Trump? I thought he was facing a bunch of charges, some were connected and some were not, and he just took a plea for it all? If that's the case, that doesn't say much.
We've been hearing for weeks that it's going to get ugly if he gets indicted. Well, here we are. He's been indicted.
Is the ugliness scheduled for this weekend? Let me know so I can have some popcorn ready. I'm not holding my breath the turnout is going to be all that robust, but maybe I'll be proven wrong. Maybe MTG will rally the right and strike the fear of God into the NYDA, but I'm not betting on it. After 1/6, I don't think too many people are going to be putting their freedom on the line for someone who in the end is going to abandon them. I'm sure there's some people still willing to do it, but I would guess not nearly as many as there were on 1/5/21.
Regarding the hand wringing over the impending ugliness if the charges don't stick... It will probably be ugly if the charges don't stick, but it's also probably going to be ugly if the charges DO stick. It's going to be ugly either way.
In the end, none of us know what's going to happen here.
Like Juggler said, Buckle Up.
I look forward to the “tourist visits” and antiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiifa protests.
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I first learned about it when I was like 8 and Michael Jackson paid off that kid to drop the charges and not talk about it.
And as far as smoking guns go, do you mean like Hunter’s laptop?
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I pay you to not tell your story, and you sign here agreeing to this.
Like I said, I first learned about it when Michael Jackson did it 30 years ago. Its common enough to where I've know what it is for a long time.
The purpose of hush money is that we won't know. If I knew all of the examples, it would be pointless to pay out, wouldn't it?
A quick google search listed Letterman, Betty Davis, tiger woods, Celine dion, tupoc, bill Cosby as paying hush money. I stopped reading the search results after that. I'm surprised anyone thinks this I rare and needs examples to know its done.
"Hush money" is not an NDA. Remember, you started by saying, "hush money isn't illegal, its actually done all the time." You didn't say, "NDAs are common, they're done all the time."
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I didn't know I needed to talk about business NDAs as well. I didn't say toilet paper is common and everyone uses it. Was I supposed to?
What does the legality of "hush money" have to do with it? But to answer your question, in some circumstances, yes, yes it very much is. Are NDAs illegal?
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The indictment is about campaign finance laws, & not hush money, no?
Cohn went to jail for a few reasons, chief among them were campaign finance charges stemming from this Stormy Daniels case. He admitted he paid her off at the direction of Donald Trump. How that doesn't say much doesn't make a whole lot of sense. He went to jail, in large part, because he followed illegal orders given to him by the former president. Why should only Cohen pay a price for that?