#46 President Joe Biden

nicknyr15

tbergs said:

Lerxst1992 said:

brianlux said:

mrussel1 said:

tempo_n_groove said:

mrussel1 said:

tempo_n_groove said:

To say one thing and do the opposite is a lie.  Holy shit people...

If I’m 22 and say I will never own a minivan, but then I buy a minivan, is that a lie?  Not really. 

If I buy a minivan and then later said I’ve never bought a minivan, is that a lie? Yes it is. 

Well lets just say this was in a matter of months, revolved around a court of law and felonies but yeah, a minivan comparison sounds right, lol.

Sorry you bought a minivan...

I never have, and never will own a minivan, that's for fucking sure.  My kids are old enough and that window is closed.  

The point is, circumstances change.  If he knew when saying it that it was false, that's a lie. But we have no evidence of that.  

To be clear, I was and am still against the pardon.  But I would not categorize it as a lie.  That's too....simple.  

Maybe someone will listen to you, M.  I keep being told I'm wrong about that.

Oh well, lol.

Patel was nominated Saturday and Biden announced the pardon on Sunday, yet many comment that "nothings changed." (Not that the enemy within attacks wasn't enough to convince Biden).


 Holy $hit people.

Now you're wading in to conspiracy theory territory. I'm not buying it. He didn't just make a snap judgement overnight. He found a sufficient reason to justify going back on what he said. Good lord. I'm also not dem right, I'm as liberal as they get, but I'm not an apologist for a politician stoking some fear in order to fleece people about his son's 11 year pardon. Just own the pardon. He's my son and I don't want him to face future penalties for being a fucked up drug addict for years.

Thanks for this. The hoops people are jumping through is insane. It is what it is. A politician? Lying? No way. So if Kamala won, he lets his son do jail time even though he has the power to stop it? Give me a break. He’s not that righteous and who could blame him. I would’ve done the same as would almost anybody. 

Lerxst1992

tbergs said:

Lerxst1992 said:

brianlux said:

mrussel1 said:

tempo_n_groove said:

mrussel1 said:

tempo_n_groove said:

To say one thing and do the opposite is a lie.  Holy shit people...

If I’m 22 and say I will never own a minivan, but then I buy a minivan, is that a lie?  Not really. 

If I buy a minivan and then later said I’ve never bought a minivan, is that a lie? Yes it is. 

Well lets just say this was in a matter of months, revolved around a court of law and felonies but yeah, a minivan comparison sounds right, lol.

Sorry you bought a minivan...

I never have, and never will own a minivan, that's for fucking sure.  My kids are old enough and that window is closed.  

The point is, circumstances change.  If he knew when saying it that it was false, that's a lie. But we have no evidence of that.  

To be clear, I was and am still against the pardon.  But I would not categorize it as a lie.  That's too....simple.  

Maybe someone will listen to you, M.  I keep being told I'm wrong about that.

Oh well, lol.

Patel was nominated Saturday and Biden announced the pardon on Sunday, yet many comment that "nothings changed." (Not that the enemy within attacks wasn't enough to convince Biden).


 Holy $hit people.

Now you're wading in to conspiracy theory territory. I'm not buying it. He didn't just make a snap judgement overnight. He found a sufficient reason to justify going back on what he said. Good lord. I'm also not dem right, I'm as liberal as they get, but I'm not an apologist for a politician stoking some fear in order to fleece people about his son's 11 year pardon. Just own the pardon. He's my son and I don't want him to face future penalties for being a fucked up drug addict for years.

You are making wild assumptions, because it did not have to be a snap overnight decision. He could have been having lengthy deliberations with his wife and family for the last month or two, and their pressure was likely increasing with the violent threats launched by 47 during the campaign and the Patel nomination could have been the last straw that caused him to cave.

At the very least , it was another overly agressive move by trump against his opponents, fully justifying the pardon imo. 

 I am citing factual data, facts that actually occurred. The enemy within attacks against democrats are unprecedented and his cabinet and administration nominations have been outrageous. 

HughFreakingDillon

we could both say the "hoops people are jumping through for this". To us it's pretty simple. To you it's pretty simple. We acknowledge there's no way to know his initial intentions. You folks, however, are arrogant enough to believe you know what his original intentions were. 

Even if he "lied" and his intent all along was to pardon him, I still say I'd do the same thing. Fuck my legacy. If I have the power to save my kid, I do it. I honestly don't agree with throwing junkies in prison anyway, especially for a crime against the state, not a person. 

shecky

Political analyst and best-selling author Mark Halperin said that President Biden’s presidential library may become more of a "bookmobile" as donors stew about his loss. 

Democrats are still reeling weeks later from the loss of the 2024 election to President-elect Donald Trump, as well as the more recent blanket pardon of Biden’s son Hunter Biden. The pardon has been particularly controversial because Biden appears to have hidden his intention to pardon as a political tactic when running against Trump.

As a result, President Biden appears to have fallen from the Democratic Party’s good graces, to the point where some frustrated Democrats are reportedly considering withholding donations to President Biden's future presidential library over his pardon of Hunter.

Halperin suggested to Fox News’ Jesse Watters that Biden may not be getting a full-fledged library as a result.

"I mean there will be some version, maybe more like a bookmobile than an actual library," he told Watters. "But this is not a surprise. He’s never been a good fundraiser and the donors are really annoyed."

Halperin argued that the donors themselves, along with the liberal media, are partly to blame.

"But I will say that the donors and the democratic officials who are now so outraged about the conduct – as you said, the press knew all this – so did they," he said. "They stood silent when Joe Biden’s operatives crushed Bobby Kennedy and Dean Phillips and rigged the rules. They stood silent as he stayed in the race and decided he was going to run for another term. They stood silent when Kamala Harris was given the nomination without a shot being fired."

Halperin suggested now might be a time of reflection for Democrats.

"I get why they are mad at Joe Biden, but I think a lot of them need to turn the clock back and imagine what they might have done differently, and Joe Biden might be in a place to raise the money," he said. "So I think he will raise some money, but as I said, he’s never been a good fundraiser, it’s the kind of work he doesn’t like to do and the donors blame him more than themselves."

Halperin argued that Biden’s purported mental decline has been obvious since 2017, but a combination of factors have shielded him from criticism.

"It’s some combination of Trump Derangement Syndrome and not wanting to be ostracized for doing anything that might help Donald Trump win," Halperin said. "The irony is the reason Joe Biden has been left in the position he’s in, the reason Donald Trump was reelected, there are plenty of reasons, but a big reason is the silence in the media. I think it’s one of the biggest scandals of any sort in American history and certainly one of the biggest media scandals."

He continued, "People say ‘Oh, they didn’t see behind the scenes.’ All you needed was a C-SPAN subscription to know there was a level of mental decline, and they stood silent," he said. "And not just the press, but the donors, the donors were spending time with him in living rooms. They saw it, Clooney eventually came out and said it, but far too late."

josevolution

Biden should pardon everyone including his dogs whoooff whooof 😂 Sheky you and chocotide shooting for the rail for his inauguration? Take pictures specially of that ear that’s missing a piece of it from the bullet! Thanks 

tbergs

HughFreakingDillon said:

we could both say the "hoops people are jumping through for this". To us it's pretty simple. To you it's pretty simple. We acknowledge there's no way to know his initial intentions. You folks, however, are arrogant enough to believe you know what his original intentions were. 

Even if he "lied" and his intent all along was to pardon him, I still say I'd do the same thing. Fuck my legacy. If I have the power to save my kid, I do it. I honestly don't agree with throwing junkies in prison anyway, especially for a crime against the state, not a person. 

Arrogant, ha! Hardly, just calling a spade a spade. The pardon isn't the issue, even though you could question the sweeping period of time it encompasses.

tbergs

Lerxst1992 said:

tbergs said:

Lerxst1992 said:

brianlux said:

mrussel1 said:

tempo_n_groove said:

mrussel1 said:

tempo_n_groove said:

To say one thing and do the opposite is a lie.  Holy shit people...

If I’m 22 and say I will never own a minivan, but then I buy a minivan, is that a lie?  Not really. 

If I buy a minivan and then later said I’ve never bought a minivan, is that a lie? Yes it is. 

Well lets just say this was in a matter of months, revolved around a court of law and felonies but yeah, a minivan comparison sounds right, lol.

Sorry you bought a minivan...

I never have, and never will own a minivan, that's for fucking sure.  My kids are old enough and that window is closed.  

The point is, circumstances change.  If he knew when saying it that it was false, that's a lie. But we have no evidence of that.  

To be clear, I was and am still against the pardon.  But I would not categorize it as a lie.  That's too....simple.  

Maybe someone will listen to you, M.  I keep being told I'm wrong about that.

Oh well, lol.

Patel was nominated Saturday and Biden announced the pardon on Sunday, yet many comment that "nothings changed." (Not that the enemy within attacks wasn't enough to convince Biden).


 Holy $hit people.

Now you're wading in to conspiracy theory territory. I'm not buying it. He didn't just make a snap judgement overnight. He found a sufficient reason to justify going back on what he said. Good lord. I'm also not dem right, I'm as liberal as they get, but I'm not an apologist for a politician stoking some fear in order to fleece people about his son's 11 year pardon. Just own the pardon. He's my son and I don't want him to face future penalties for being a fucked up drug addict for years.

You are making wild assumptions, because it did not have to be a snap overnight decision. He could have been having lengthy deliberations with his wife and family for the last month or two, and their pressure was likely increasing with the violent threats launched by 47 during the campaign and the Patel nomination could have been the last straw that caused him to cave.

At the very least , it was another overly agressive move by trump against his opponents, fully justifying the pardon imo. 

 I am citing factual data, facts that actually occurred. The enemy within attacks against democrats are unprecedented and his cabinet and administration nominations have been outrageous. 

Do you believe that Biden had every intention of letting his son serve whatever sentence was imposed when he was asked the question about a pardon? That's all it comes down to for me. The son he has vehemently defended and even sought council from over the last year? His only living son as an 82 year old. It's bullshit.

You're not citing factual data, you're referencing exaggerated statements of right wing sycophants shared over the course of the last 18 months, all of which were already known at the time Biden was asked the question. Yeah, sure, Trump hadn't appointed people yet, but FFS, if you're calling him a threat to democracy and stating he is going to be a dictator, then don't say you won't pardon your son in 6 months, 2 weeks, whatever the timeframe because that man may be the next president. That's arrogant and misleading, and ultimately a lie. Trump is a flaming pile of dog shit who lies with every breath, but apparently people are ok with open blatant lies because they voted for that. I expect some form of lies from a politician. It's a part of trying to appeal to mass blocks of voters.

We disagree, it's fine. Biden has done a lot of great things and this stupid pardon won't define his presidency.

Choccoloccotide

josevolution said:

Biden should pardon everyone including his dogs whoooff whooof 😂 Sheky you and chocotide shooting for the rail for his inauguration? Take pictures specially of that ear that’s missing a piece of it from the bullet! Thanks 

Anything for you Jose!!  Btw, I’ll grab you a Dark MAGA hat too!!

Choccoloccotide

The fake news is turning on crooked Joe?  What’s going on!?

https://apnews.com/article/hunter-biden-pardon-president-trump-d5c8e7fbead7218c9b1e03a290945267?taid=67542ac6555a1b0001adbdb2&utm_campaign=TrueAnthem&utm_medium=AP&utm_source=Twitter

josevolution

Choccoloccotide said:

josevolution said:

Biden should pardon everyone including his dogs whoooff whooof 😂 Sheky you and chocotide shooting for the rail for his inauguration? Take pictures specially of that ear that’s missing a piece of it from the bullet! Thanks 

Anything for you Jose!!  Btw, I’ll grab you a Dark MAGA hat too!!

Yes please I’d love to burn it if you want I’ll send you me addy send me a flag so I can burn that too, thanks I can just see you getting all emotional when he gets sworn in with hands on a Bible he know nothing of! 

mookieblalock

Choccoloccotide said:

The fake news is turning on crooked Joe?  What’s going on!?

https://apnews.com/article/hunter-biden-pardon-president-trump-d5c8e7fbead7218c9b1e03a290945267?taid=67542ac6555a1b0001adbdb2&utm_campaign=TrueAnthem&utm_medium=AP&utm_source=Twitter

“You can’t believe anything from legacy media”

Gern Blansten

tbergs said:

Lerxst1992 said:

brianlux said:

mrussel1 said:

tempo_n_groove said:

mrussel1 said:

tempo_n_groove said:

To say one thing and do the opposite is a lie.  Holy shit people...

If I’m 22 and say I will never own a minivan, but then I buy a minivan, is that a lie?  Not really. 

If I buy a minivan and then later said I’ve never bought a minivan, is that a lie? Yes it is. 

Well lets just say this was in a matter of months, revolved around a court of law and felonies but yeah, a minivan comparison sounds right, lol.

Sorry you bought a minivan...

I never have, and never will own a minivan, that's for fucking sure.  My kids are old enough and that window is closed.  

The point is, circumstances change.  If he knew when saying it that it was false, that's a lie. But we have no evidence of that.  

To be clear, I was and am still against the pardon.  But I would not categorize it as a lie.  That's too....simple.  

Maybe someone will listen to you, M.  I keep being told I'm wrong about that.

Oh well, lol.

Patel was nominated Saturday and Biden announced the pardon on Sunday, yet many comment that "nothings changed." (Not that the enemy within attacks wasn't enough to convince Biden).


 Holy $hit people.

Now you're wading in to conspiracy theory territory. I'm not buying it. He didn't just make a snap judgement overnight. He found a sufficient reason to justify going back on what he said. Good lord. I'm also not dem right, I'm as liberal as they get, but I'm not an apologist for a politician stoking some fear in order to fleece people about his son's 11 year pardon. Just own the pardon. He's my son and I don't want him to face future penalties for being a fucked up drug addict for years.

LOL another one with a crystal ball... You know Biden's complete intent 

tbergs

Gern Blansten said:

tbergs said:

Lerxst1992 said:

brianlux said:

mrussel1 said:

tempo_n_groove said:

mrussel1 said:

tempo_n_groove said:

To say one thing and do the opposite is a lie.  Holy shit people...

If I’m 22 and say I will never own a minivan, but then I buy a minivan, is that a lie?  Not really. 

If I buy a minivan and then later said I’ve never bought a minivan, is that a lie? Yes it is. 

Well lets just say this was in a matter of months, revolved around a court of law and felonies but yeah, a minivan comparison sounds right, lol.

Sorry you bought a minivan...

I never have, and never will own a minivan, that's for fucking sure.  My kids are old enough and that window is closed.  

The point is, circumstances change.  If he knew when saying it that it was false, that's a lie. But we have no evidence of that.  

To be clear, I was and am still against the pardon.  But I would not categorize it as a lie.  That's too....simple.  

Maybe someone will listen to you, M.  I keep being told I'm wrong about that.

Oh well, lol.

Patel was nominated Saturday and Biden announced the pardon on Sunday, yet many comment that "nothings changed." (Not that the enemy within attacks wasn't enough to convince Biden).


 Holy $hit people.

Now you're wading in to conspiracy theory territory. I'm not buying it. He didn't just make a snap judgement overnight. He found a sufficient reason to justify going back on what he said. Good lord. I'm also not dem right, I'm as liberal as they get, but I'm not an apologist for a politician stoking some fear in order to fleece people about his son's 11 year pardon. Just own the pardon. He's my son and I don't want him to face future penalties for being a fucked up drug addict for years.

LOL another one with a crystal ball... You know Biden's complete intent 

Ok. Ignorance is bliss I guess. Keep looking through that one way glass. God forbid Biden also doesn't get the benefit of the doubt if he changes his mind less than 30 days after the last public statement of intent. 🤪

Gern Blansten

tbergs said:

Gern Blansten said:

tbergs said:

Lerxst1992 said:

brianlux said:

mrussel1 said:

tempo_n_groove said:

mrussel1 said:

tempo_n_groove said:

To say one thing and do the opposite is a lie.  Holy shit people...

If I’m 22 and say I will never own a minivan, but then I buy a minivan, is that a lie?  Not really. 

If I buy a minivan and then later said I’ve never bought a minivan, is that a lie? Yes it is. 

Well lets just say this was in a matter of months, revolved around a court of law and felonies but yeah, a minivan comparison sounds right, lol.

Sorry you bought a minivan...

I never have, and never will own a minivan, that's for fucking sure.  My kids are old enough and that window is closed.  

The point is, circumstances change.  If he knew when saying it that it was false, that's a lie. But we have no evidence of that.  

To be clear, I was and am still against the pardon.  But I would not categorize it as a lie.  That's too....simple.  

Maybe someone will listen to you, M.  I keep being told I'm wrong about that.

Oh well, lol.

Patel was nominated Saturday and Biden announced the pardon on Sunday, yet many comment that "nothings changed." (Not that the enemy within attacks wasn't enough to convince Biden).


 Holy $hit people.

Now you're wading in to conspiracy theory territory. I'm not buying it. He didn't just make a snap judgement overnight. He found a sufficient reason to justify going back on what he said. Good lord. I'm also not dem right, I'm as liberal as they get, but I'm not an apologist for a politician stoking some fear in order to fleece people about his son's 11 year pardon. Just own the pardon. He's my son and I don't want him to face future penalties for being a fucked up drug addict for years.

LOL another one with a crystal ball... You know Biden's complete intent 

Ok. Ignorance is bliss I guess. Keep looking through that one way glass. God forbid Biden also doesn't get the benefit of the doubt if he changes his mind less than 30 days after the last public statement of intent. 🤪

Yeah and you are still ASSUMING you are correct 

shecky

shecky

Choccoloccotide

shecky said:

Preemptive pardon = Guilty as hell 

Spurs14

Choccoloccotide said:

shecky said:

Preemptive pardon = Guilty as hell 

L Cheney & Milley (two amongst a plethora of others incl Kelly) - what laws did they break?  Any verifiable proof from a nonpartisan source such as ap, upi, Reuters?

shecky

Pardon envy: Democrats vie to make the Biden pardon list 

by Jonathan Turley, Opinion Contributor - 12/07/24 10:30 AM ET

Liberal pundits and press in Washington are facing a growing nightmare in Washington. No, it is not the victory of President-elect Donald Trump or the Democrats’ loss of both houses of Congress and the popular vote in this election. It is the possibility that democracy may not collapse as predicted, and Trump might not even round up his opponents en masse.

For months, liberals have been telling voters that this will likely be their last election and that democracy is about to end in the U.S. ABC host Whoopi Goldberg declared on “The View” that Trump will immediately become a dictator who will “put you people away … take all the journalists … take all the gay folks … move you all around and disappear you.”

Many predicted they would be on the top of the enemies list and the first to be rounded up.

Now, the moment is nearly here, and pundits are dreading that the public may notice there is no line of democracy champions being frog-marched down Pennsylvania Avenue. Faced with such a scenario and a further loss of credibility, many are coming up with the next best thing — pretending they stopped the roundup by having Biden pardon everyone. The spin will be that Trump would have gone after rivals but was prevented from doing so by Biden.

The idea is to portray yourself as a white knight, riding down to protect the vulnerable and timid from the coming hoard.

Even if democracy inconveniently survives, Biden can preserve the narrative with sweeping pardons.

The White House is reportedly exploring giving preemptive pardons to figures ranging from Dr. Anthony Fauci, Sen.-elect Adam Schiff (D-Calif.) and former Rep. Liz Cheney (R-Wyo.).

Cheney previously declared that this “may well be the last real vote you ever get to cast.” A pardon would preserve her persona as a modern-day Joan of Arc who avoided being burnt at the stake only by the grace of a Biden pardon.

Others seem to be panicking that there may be a list of pardoned people, but they will be left off. Call it “Pardon Envy.” The only thing worse than not being on a Trump enemies list is not being on a Biden pardon list.

Before the election, MSNBC host Al Sharpton and regular Donny Deutsch warned viewers that they would likely be added to an “enemies list.” MSNBC host Rachel Maddow ominously told her viewers that, “Yes, I’m worried about me — but only as much as I’m worried about all of us.”

Washington Post columnist Jennifer Rubin seemed apoplectic that she and others might be omitted from both lists. One has to be somewhat sympathetic to Rubin. To be left both unpardoned and unarrested is to lose all standing among the “save democracy” social set.

Rubin, once dubbed the Post’s Republican columnist, has called for the Republican Party to be burned down and recently advised people how to keep panic alive despite the election: “You can’t talk broad themes. You have to boil it down to nuts and bolts, and you have to be pithy. What do I mean by pithy? How about this: Republicans want to kill your kids. It’s true.”

In a podcast, Rubin explained that Biden should pardon “thousands” to blunt Trump’s “initial round of revenge” from journalists to the “little guy and gal” counting votes. She advised that he should pardon whole “categories” of people to pardon anyone Trump may have “identified by name or type” to offer “protection from a maniac.”

In her most recent column, Rubin repeated the call for Biden to pardon “scores of Americans” due to a “reasonable fear that a weaponized FBI directed by a vengeful president will carry out threats to pursue his enemies.”

The key is to issue broad pardons to suggest that, absent such extraordinary action, “this maniac” would have purged whole areas of blue states. It is like telling everyone that you are wearing a tin-foil hat to prevent aliens from snatching you. When someone points out that they have not seen any aliens, you can respond, “See, it worked!”

The Biden White House is considering the use of such white-knight pardons to claim that the president did not protect just his son (and himself) with the pardon power but many others.

Biden wants to remove the stain of his abuse of the pardon power to benefit his own family by turning it into a literal party favor for other Democrats and Trump critics. Even though Trump has denied any interest in retribution, saying that “my revenge will be a success,” preemptive pardons leave the impression that they did in fact preempt something that would have occurred.

A white-knight pardon can also work when you are protecting someone who does not want to be saved. That is the case with a Trump pardon. Such a pardon is absolutely not needed and would constitute the most hostile pardon in history. The federal cases against Trump are effectively dead. Even though they were dismissed without prejudice, it is extremely unlikely they would be resumed. Moreover, the cases brought by Special Counsel Jack Smith were riddled with constitutional problems and unlikely to be sustained even with a conviction.

The only ongoing legal threat to Trump is from Democratic prosecutors on the state level, such as Manhattan District Attorney Alvin Bragg and Fulton County District Attorney Fani Willis. A pardon would not apply to such cases anyway.

Yet, to pardon Trump for nonexistent federal cases would be to suggest that Biden saved him from prosecution. This is the same president who did nothing for years until the cases collapsed. He would now claim that he worked to bring the nation together after calling Trump a virtual Nazi and his supporters “garbage.”

Trump may be the only one who is not interested in a trophy pardon. What is the value of being part of the resistance if you are not being pursued, persecuted or pardoned?

It seems like some of the same people who had hoped to be on the list for the Biden Inaugural balls are now making calls to make the Biden pardon list. If Biden were to yield to calls for hundreds or even thousands of pardons, the loss of political standing for those not making the list could become intolerable. For any self-respecting armchair resistance fighter in 2025, a Biden pardon could become the latest status symbol.

Jonathan Turley is the Shapiro professor of public interest law at George Washington University and the author of “The Indispensable Right: Free Speech in an Age of Rage.”

Choccoloccotide

Jill hasn’t looked at Joe like this since she was his babysitter.